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Gagged - 3/19/2007 12:40:55 PM   
curiouslyseeking


Posts: 924
Joined: 1/11/2007
Status: offline 		I keep reading the book, “How to be the perfect slave for the perfect Master 101”, but some days the principles just don’t kick in.  (Plus I’ve had the book too long to get a refund,..*grin*)
 
On the days that issues bother you deeply between your Dominant and yourself, how do you find you most often and naturally react?
 
Are you gagged by your own thoughts and words and prefer not to discuss it, but knowing in a healthy relationship dependent upon communication that you need to?
 
Or
 
Do you  immediately want to share ALL your thoughts and words until it’s at the brink of disrespect, and you are gagged with the command, “Enough” or even possibly the real gag?
 
What solutions in communication do you use to avoid your gag in the relationship? 
 
On another thread one solution of better communication was to write a letter.  I can see how this may be beneficial in both scenarios of avoiding your type of gag, if allowed.  Any other solutions?
 
Looking forward to an open discussion of points and perceptions that I may have missed.

 (PS. Did you think it was another post about a mean ole Dom-dom gagged a poor slavey-slave for one week?…..though, stay tuned…it just may happen…)

_____________________________

"The ultimate freedom is the freedom to choose to have no choice"

Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Gagged - 3/19/2007 1:21:58 PM   
StellaByStarlite


Posts: 790
Joined: 2/10/2007
Status: offline 		Hello. =)

If something is truely bothering me, I'll always go with option B.. that is, I'd rather take my chances with his momentary displeasure and let it all out, vocalizing it to death. But you know... he rarely gets upset with me for that. We're very well-tuned to each other, so our communication differences are small potatoes in the grand scheme of things.

I think a journal is a great idea, though. A notebook that you can record all your worries and troubles, to be reviewed at regular periods.

Stella

(in reply to curiouslyseeking)
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RE: Gagged - 3/19/2007 1:28:06 PM   
curiouslyseeking


Posts: 924
Joined: 1/11/2007
Status: offline
quote:

I think a journal is a great idea, though. A notebook that you can record all your worries and troubles, to be reviewed at regular periods.

Stella


Thank you, Stella....that could be a very useful tool and a solution, especially by someone like me that is gagged by her own words and thoughts.



_____________________________

"The ultimate freedom is the freedom to choose to have no choice"


(in reply to StellaByStarlite)
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RE: Gagged - 3/19/2007 1:40:01 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		If I'm overemotional, I try and step back until my emotions are under control.

I do this less often than I'd like, normally I let my emotions take the wheel, ride it out THEN calm down and seriously discuss it.

I'd say mentally prepare your I statements.  Before you go into anything, phrase it in the form of "I feel X when you do Y.  In the future, I'd prefer if you did Z."  Then you allow them to make their I statements.

Don't bring back old grudges or tell someone they aren't behaving like "X" should behave. 

Your goal here is to reach a set of understood expectations so that everyone can feel secure and listened to.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

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RE: Gagged - 3/19/2007 1:46:01 PM   
slaveish


Posts: 1086
Joined: 2/19/2007
Status: offline 		Master makes it clear that I am to tell him my thoughts and feelings but that I am to do it in a respectful manner. If I know I cannot be respectful in my words then I chill for a little while, and sometimes the "chill period" gives me a chance to see I was acting / thinking / feeling things in an overblown manner.

_____________________________

You only lose what you cling to. ~~Gautama Sidharta

If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other. ~~Mother Teresa

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
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RE: Gagged - 3/19/2007 2:06:03 PM   
curiouslyseeking


Posts: 924
Joined: 1/11/2007
Status: offline
quote:

I'd say mentally prepare your I statements.  Before you go into anything, phrase it in the form of "I feel X when you do Y.  In the future, I'd prefer if you did Z."  Then you allow them to make their I statements.


Thank you, LA...
 
I think this formula would work in both scenarios.. may need cue cards for Scenario A in which the submissive doesn't want to discuss it.
 
Thank you slaveish..for your response sounds like you have your gag under control.


_____________________________

"The ultimate freedom is the freedom to choose to have no choice"


(in reply to slaveish)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: Gagged - 3/19/2007 2:20:03 PM   
cjenny


Posts: 1736
Joined: 11/27/2006
Status: offline 		I keep an online journal, he knows that that is the place where I put things I need help with. It lets me be much more open than I would be speaking one on one & there are no reprisals for anything I may write about. That ensures total honesty from me with no dodging of the tough stuff. It is a 'free zone' and my safety outlet.

_____________________________

*Unless I cite a source it is MO.


~ ssssh. i think i've just found freedom. ~

(in reply to curiouslyseeking)
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RE: Gagged - 3/19/2007 2:28:16 PM   
curiouslyseeking


Posts: 924
Joined: 1/11/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cjenny

I keep an online journal, he knows that that is the place where I put things I need help with. It lets me be much more open than I would be speaking one on one & there are no reprisals for anything I may write about. That ensures total honesty from me with no dodging of the tough stuff. It is a 'free zone' and my safety outlet.


Thank you cjenny...
 
Do you post in it daily (happy thoughts and issues?) or just when something that is hard to discuss arises?
 
Does He let you know when he reads it?  Is it then discussed?

_____________________________

"The ultimate freedom is the freedom to choose to have no choice"


(in reply to cjenny)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Gagged - 3/19/2007 2:31:18 PM   
mixielicous


Posts: 1283
Joined: 4/6/2006
From: Boston area, Massachusetts
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: curiouslyseeking

Are you gagged by your own thoughts and words and prefer not to discuss it, but knowing in a healthy relationship dependent upon communication that you need to?

Or


On another thread one solution of better communication was to write a letter. I can see how this may be beneficial in both scenarios of avoiding your type of gag, if allowed.

i have a tendancy to hold my tongue for fear of being out of line, and it IS hard because of how quintessential communication is. i blog, but D doesnt read it regularly.

if i am having a real problem i will write an email b/c that way i am sure i have said all i needed.

_____________________________


"lets just say he's a few prawns short of a galaxy"


(in reply to curiouslyseeking)
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RE: Gagged - 3/19/2007 2:32:02 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		Reposted:
I think females in general really like journaling- it lets them say "lookit me!" without actually having to say it.

But I think too often submissives become dependent on the journal, RATHER than using it as a launchpad into more meaningful and direct contact.  If the dom doesn't take the impetus to bring up issues in person, I find that the issue doesn't really get raised at all- leading the sub to think that the dom doesn't care or isn't interested, rather than simply directly bringing it up.

I also feel it raises too many expectations- if a dom misses a reading or doesn't give some feedback on it, subs often begin to feel let down or insecure. 

I think encouraging someone to express themselves through writing is a fabulous idea.  But it should not become a crutch or substitute for actual discussion of issues, and should not become a burden or symbol of attention for the dominant to take on.

http://www.collarchat.com/m_324861/mpage_1/key_journal/tm.htm
Journaling for subs

http://www.collarchat.com/m_496605/mpage_1/key_journal/tm.htm#496785
Keeping a Journal

http://www.collarchat.com/m_563275/mpage_1/key_journal/tm.htm#563324
slave journalling

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to curiouslyseeking)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Gagged - 3/19/2007 2:32:11 PM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline 		The act of writing forces one to focus and organize ones thoughts.  I know I often think I have a grasp of an issue and then go to write about it only to find that the issue isn't as well formed or understood as I imagined.

Also, as one writes, we are forced to "see" the issue with a bit more distance than most of us can manage in our heads.  This again forces us to think deeper about the issue.

This is also important as it allows us to see how emotional a subject is and gives us a chance to judge if those emotions are valid and if the level of those emotions is justified.

As an aside, anything that speaks of someone being the "perfect" submissive would be suspect from the getgo.

(in reply to cjenny)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Gagged - 3/19/2007 2:35:35 PM   
curiouslyseeking


Posts: 924
Joined: 1/11/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mixielicous
i have a tendancy to hold my tongue for fear of being out of line, and it IS hard because of how quintessential communication is. i blog, but D doesnt read it regularly.

if i am having a real problem i will write an email b/c that way i am sure i have said all i needed.

 
Thank you, mixielicious....
 
Interesting you mentioned your reason for gagging yourself...(fear of being out of line)..
 
For me, just don't want to bring anything but smiles (no issues) is the reason for my gag placed upon myself...which would be great in a perfect world....but I need to learn to communicate in a world or relationship that is not perfect.
 
e-mails are a good solution as well.
 
 

_____________________________

"The ultimate freedom is the freedom to choose to have no choice"


(in reply to mixielicous)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Gagged - 3/19/2007 2:40:32 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: curiouslyseeking
For me, just don't want to bring anything but smiles (no issues) is the reason for my gag placed upon myself...which would be great in a perfect world....but I need to learn to communicate in a world or relationship that is not perfect.

e-mails are a good solution as well.

Fake smiles in the now lead to horrible heartbreaks in the future.

A few frowns here and there lead to real smiles long term.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to curiouslyseeking)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Gagged - 3/19/2007 2:41:44 PM   
mixielicous


Posts: 1283
Joined: 4/6/2006
From: Boston area, Massachusetts
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: curiouslyseeking

e-mails are a good solution as well.



agreed, but like LA alluded to in reference to journaling, i recently learned that unless followed up in person, it is generally just like blogging: to no avail

_____________________________


"lets just say he's a few prawns short of a galaxy"


(in reply to curiouslyseeking)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Gagged - 3/19/2007 3:06:38 PM   
Wildfleurs


Posts: 1650
Joined: 9/24/2004
From: Connecticut
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: curiouslyseeking

I keep reading the book, “How to be the perfect slave for the perfect Master 101”, but some days the principles just don’t kick in.  (Plus I’ve had the book too long to get a refund,..*grin*)
 
On the days that issues bother you deeply between your Dominant and yourself, how do you find you most often and naturally react?


I tend to react by withdrawing and not saying much (my patent phrase is, "ok").  My owner tends to do the same thing as well which makes life interesting.  What I usually try to do is process and then reach out to him.

quote:


 
Are you gagged by your own thoughts and words and prefer not to discuss it, but knowing in a healthy relationship dependent upon communication that you need to?
 
Or
 
Do you  immediately want to share ALL your thoughts and words until it’s at the brink of disrespect, and you are gagged with the command, “Enough” or even possibly the real gag?
 


I try to wait until the right moment to mention it, but sometimes there is no good moment so I just do what I call a verbal vomit (I just let it all out).  My tendency is to hold things in because I can be very cutting and blunt without meaning to be so, and while I'm used a family environment where you just say what you feel and talk and maybe argue it out for about ten minutes then its all over my owner tends to not be like that and so I tend to try to be more careful about what I say and how I say it.  But I've never been gagged from talking about how I feel, if anything he does encourage me to talk about it. 

I'm not a huge fan of blogging or emailing out disagreements or issues, I've found that it can be to much of a crutch.  My preference is to talk things out face to face and try to touch during it also. (My owner would never cop to it, but he likes tears, genuine displays of remorse, and such).

C~

Edited for formatting and clarification.

< Message edited by Wildfleurs -- 3/19/2007 3:19:55 PM >

_____________________________

"Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid." -despair.com

~~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
The heart of it all - http://www.wildfleurs.com
~~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~

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RE: Gagged - 3/19/2007 3:16:40 PM   
raevnn


Posts: 152
Status: offline 		Periods of time can be set aside in which the submissive/slave is allowed to speak what is on their mind without fear of retribution.... if that is how the relationship is set up.

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RE: Gagged - 3/19/2007 3:20:56 PM   
curiouslyseeking


Posts: 924
Joined: 1/11/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

Reposted:
I think females in general really like journaling- it lets them say "lookit me!" without actually having to say it.

But I think too often submissives become dependent on the journal, RATHER than using it as a launchpad into more meaningful and direct contact.  If the dom doesn't take the impetus to bring up issues in person, I find that the issue doesn't really get raised at all- leading the sub to think that the dom doesn't care or isn't interested, rather than simply directly bringing it up.

I also feel it raises too many expectations- if a dom misses a reading or doesn't give some feedback on it, subs often begin to feel let down or insecure. 

I think encouraging someone to express themselves through writing is a fabulous idea.  But it should not become a crutch or substitute for actual discussion of issues, and should not become a burden or symbol of attention for the dominant to take on.


Thank you again, LA....
 
I do see where journaling can be helpful in some areas...but I've experienced the "expectations" that you point out when it comes to dealing with issues, actually making communication worse...snowballing..
 
For the submissive that identifies with scenario A, in which she is inclined to keep silent..does a journal really provide growth in communication for her or a crutch as you mentioned?  Or perhaps baby steps to get to be able to communicate in the future more readily?.....many ways to look at it..
 
Great points of view on journaling with issues.

_____________________________

"The ultimate freedom is the freedom to choose to have no choice"


(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Gagged - 3/19/2007 3:21:57 PM   
cjenny


Posts: 1736
Joined: 11/27/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: curiouslyseeking

quote:

ORIGINAL: cjenny

I keep an online journal, he knows that that is the place where I put things I need help with. It lets me be much more open than I would be speaking one on one & there are no reprisals for anything I may write about. That ensures total honesty from me with no dodging of the tough stuff. It is a 'free zone' and my safety outlet.


Thank you cjenny...
 
Do you post in it daily (happy thoughts and issues?) or just when something that is hard to discuss arises?
 
Does He let you know when he reads it?  Is it then discussed?


I write a few times a week so it covers just about everything lol. It has happy stuff, worried stuff & rambling on stuff. Yes we discuss it, he guides me in decisions & gives me support. It has really been invaluable because it can be really hard for me to open up even after 6 years. I can write that I worry I depend on him too much or I can write how much I love him  . I use a free adult site that is BDSM friendly so I neednt worry about content... which is a good thing!
Writing is the easiest form of communication for me. I have short term memory issues and having it all in print gives me a reference to go back to when I need it. I tend to use it for scheduling purposes too, that way he can keep track with me.
The journal really began as something I was doing for myself but when he professed interest in reading it, it morphed into a secondary way for me to let him know things.
(plus I keep my erotica there n he likes that!!)

edit-hit enter too fast!

< Message edited by cjenny -- 3/19/2007 3:27:00 PM >

_____________________________

*Unless I cite a source it is MO.


~ ssssh. i think i've just found freedom. ~

(in reply to curiouslyseeking)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Gagged - 3/19/2007 3:29:46 PM   
curiouslyseeking


Posts: 924
Joined: 1/11/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

The act of writing forces one to focus and organize ones thoughts.  I know I often think I have a grasp of an issue and then go to write about it only to find that the issue isn't as well formed or understood as I imagined.

Also, as one writes, we are forced to "see" the issue with a bit more distance than most of us can manage in our heads.  This again forces us to think deeper about the issue.

This is also important as it allows us to see how emotional a subject is and gives us a chance to judge if those emotions are valid and if the level of those emotions is justified.

As an aside, anything that speaks of someone being the "perfect" submissive would be suspect from the getgo.


Thank you SimplyMichael, great to have a Dominant input (the other side of the slash.)
 
So, am I understanding correctly that you would  actually prefer your submissive to come with deep-seeded issues in writing, so that it's handled more on a logical instead of emotional base for both of  you?  

 



_____________________________

"The ultimate freedom is the freedom to choose to have no choice"


(in reply to SimplyMichael)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Gagged - 3/19/2007 3:31:14 PM   
slaveluci


Posts: 4294
Joined: 3/2/2007
From: Little Rock, AR
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: curiouslyseeking

quote:

ORIGINAL: cjenny

I keep an online journal, he knows that that is the place where I put things I need help with. It lets me be much more open than I would be speaking one on one & there are no reprisals for anything I may write about. That ensures total honesty from me with no dodging of the tough stuff. It is a 'free zone' and my safety outlet.


Thank you cjenny...
 
Do you post in it daily (happy thoughts and issues?) or just when something that is hard to discuss arises?
 
Does He let you know when he reads it?  Is it then discussed?



This is exactly what i do as well.  i feel free to discuss anything with Master and i do not usually have any difficulty doing so.  i can think of a few times that i have and so i asked permission to start an online journal for such times.  Master granted permission.  i do not use it daily or even weekly just, as you mentioned, when something really difficult to discuss arises.  And even then...i don't always use the journal for that - just on certain occasions.  It's not that i feel i can't discuss it face to face.  For me, it's almost like laying the foundation for a discussion.  i spell everything out in detail, careful to get all my points and feelings down.  Then, once He's read it, W/we always discuss it in detail.  It seems to have always helped to have had the opportunity to have used the journal first to get everything across whereas i might forget something if i hadn't done that beforehand.  Recently, Master bought me a beautiful journal.  When i have posted in my online journal, i always print it out and cut and tape it into the book, being sure to date it.  This serves as a tangible reminder of the difficulties i have had and how Master has helped me past them.  i treasure it and often flip back through it to see the progress i have made in my service to and honesty with Him.........slave luci

_____________________________

To choose a good book, look in an inquisitor’s prohibited list. ~John Aikin

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