Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

RE: The hurdles of transprency!!


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion >> RE: The hurdles of transprency!! Page: <<   < prev  1 [2] 3 4   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: The hurdles of transprency!! - 3/19/2007 8:24:18 PM   
mythi


Posts: 257
Joined: 2/25/2007
From: Naples, FL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: catize

I really do not ‘get’ the transparency issue.  There are many things that master doesn’t want or need to know, nor is he a mind reader.  If there is something that concerns or impacts our relationship, I tell him. 
He may intuit some things, but there is a helluva lot about myself that no other human being is aware of.
I am stubbornly opaque with everyone; family, and friends as well as master. I cannot fathom how anyone can ‘know’ another person completely.  I do not see how that is possible or why it would be deemed necessary. 


He is responsible for you. Everything you think, feel, and do affects you. Therefore all those things concern him and the relationship.

My first D/s relationship had this rule and the ones which followed (where I was the sub) did not. They were also much less intimate, intense, and satisfying.  Ditto when I switched...for my first sub where I had this rule compared to the second from whom I didn't demand this level of openness.

Frankly I just didn't feel the same bond with the Dom's who did not wish to claim the contents of my mind, nor with the sub I let stay hidden from me.

And because of this I never felt secure enough in those non-transparent relationships to explore very deeply.  Maybe a good thing, since I can also easily imagine there being physical and emotional safety issues in playing some games in "unknown" territory.

This is me, and I like to delve and be delved into.  But the possible safety concerns could apply to anyone.


My, perhaps offensive, 2 cents...tho not intended in that way.

_____________________________

“The truth doesn’t change based on our ability to stomach it.”
Flannery O’Connor

(in reply to catize)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: The hurdles of transprency!! - 3/19/2007 8:26:52 PM   
leakylee


Posts: 747
Joined: 7/2/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

I know logically that I am supposed to be transparent. I try to be transparent. I want to be transparent. I still fall short of being transparent. Do I feel badly about this? No, I do not. I think that transparency takes years to achieve. I do not think that often we even know we are hiding things. I think that I discover more about myself all the time, and it is hard to share those things with another if one does not know it is within themselves in the first place.

I would love to be completely transparent. It is a goal. I am attempting to be this way, but I am patient with myself, and he is patient with me. It will happen in due course


Julia,
This made me smile. It is so nice to see and read. The patience with yourself. To give yourself the space and time. Also knowing that you grasp more of your own uniqueness (may sound sappy, but hey, sappy person here).

thank you for responding
lee

_____________________________

I am so not right, that I left..

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: The hurdles of transprency!! - 3/19/2007 8:43:35 PM   
mythi


Posts: 257
Joined: 2/25/2007
From: Naples, FL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: leakylee

So my question, to my fellow submissives,  is how did you, how do you, open those tricky spots?

To dominants how do you encourange, reassure, (i dont think i am getting the wording right here) in those areas that dont come avaiable so easily?



Some good measure of trust has to be in place first, but I've found that it tends to deepen (sometimes profoundly) as you take more risks and open up more...in any supportive relationship, D/s or otherwise.  In D/s however, the odds are often much higher, the risks scarier, the spots trickier.  Anything that makes one feel safe helps, and that will vary from person to person.  Being held, in the dark, after or during some relaxing activity (use your imagination), being ordered or forced to say it, Dom telling some extreme or dark fantasy first...whatever works for you.  I've also had to resort to writing a couple times as I'm not a naturally verbal person and I feel more confident in my writing skills than my speaking skills.  Once I was ordered to write a fictional story in which the main character experienced what I couldn't make myself reveal as "my own".

Heck, I played "what's grosser than gross" with my first sub in order to break the ice and show him that whatever it was, I was okay goin there and couldn't be scared off or disgusted. *grin*

With this rule I firmly believe the end is much more important than the means.

_____________________________

“The truth doesn’t change based on our ability to stomach it.”
Flannery O’Connor

(in reply to leakylee)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: The hurdles of transprency!! - 3/19/2007 8:52:34 PM   
catize


Posts: 3020
Joined: 3/7/2006
Status: offline
quote:

 I apologize in advance.  I don't know you, your Master, your situation.

If I didn't try to know my charge that intimately, I would find myself uncaring and/or lazy.

If my charge would not make any effort for me to understand her better, I would find her obtuse and uncooperative.

I cannot imagine the 'quality' (or more likely, lack) of the relationship.  There certainly couldn't attempt to be any sort of power exchange.

Jeff  


There is no need to apologize; I am genuinely curious why so many believe transparency is a goal, let alone possible. 
 
One can have intimate knowledge about a person and still not know everything.
Neither master or I  buy into the cliché ‘he/she knows me better than I know myself’.
 
There are many facets of my life, feelings that I have, that are inexplicable and he would find it tedious and unproductive to explore them.  I came to terms with them myself long ago and I don’t see any reason to re-explore them since they don’t impact the relationship.
 
I don’t quite understand how being less than transparent affects the power exchange dynamic  
 
But as I said initially, I don’t ‘get’ it and it may just have to remain a puzzle for me.


_____________________________

"Power is real. But it's a lot less real if it's not perceived as power."
Robert Parker, Stranger in Paradise

(in reply to mstrjx)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: The hurdles of transprency!! - 3/19/2007 9:05:17 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

There is no need to apologize; I am genuinely curious why so many believe transparency is a goal, let alone possible. 
It probably is not possible. That is why I am glad we are more focused upon the journey than on the actual destination. It is a worthwhile goal, and a work in progress to some of us... that does not mean I think it is for everyone though.

I think of transparency in a different way. I believe in it as being honest and upfront in all dealings, not hiding important things from your partner. I do not see it as he can literally read my mind, or that he knows what I am going to do before I do, or that he knows me better than I know myself. I think of it as if he wants to know something I tell him the most truthful thing I can. I do not hide parts of what is in me if he wants to know. There are things he has told me he could never understand about being submissive or being a woman, he still wants to hear about it, he still tries to understand on an intellectual level. I do not expect more.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to catize)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: The hurdles of transprency!! - 3/19/2007 9:11:55 PM   
classykindasassy


Posts: 291
Joined: 12/13/2005
Status: offline 		There has to be trust and that is all it requires. I am transparent with my boss, and with a lot of people in my life. They grow from it and so do I.

_____________________________

"The less I seek my source for some definitive, the closer I am to fine." -The Indigo Girls

(in reply to leakylee)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: The hurdles of transprency!! - 3/19/2007 9:28:29 PM   
catize


Posts: 3020
Joined: 3/7/2006
Status: offline
quote:

 He is responsible for you. Everything you think, feel, and do affects you. Therefore all those things concern him and the relationship.  


Although I can agree that master has some responsibilities for my well-being, that does not abdicate me from taking responsibility for myself.   There are many things that affect me that I don’t allow to influence the relationship.  If I’ve had a bad day at work, there are times I don’t need or want to talk about it.  I simply let it go and talk about other things. He is my master but that doesn’t mean he can change certain problems in my life.  Yes, he cares, but why burden him with stuff over which he has no control? 
My view and I believe that he would agree, is that our relationship is based on what we do together,  and both of us are more comfortable dealing with the here and now.      


_____________________________

"Power is real. But it's a lot less real if it's not perceived as power."
Robert Parker, Stranger in Paradise

(in reply to mythi)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: The hurdles of transprency!! - 3/19/2007 9:28:50 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		I am glad I made you smile!

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to mythi)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: The hurdles of transprency!! - 3/19/2007 9:31:40 PM   
mythi


Posts: 257
Joined: 2/25/2007
From: Naples, FL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: catize

There are many facets of my life, feelings that I have, that are inexplicable and he would find it tedious and unproductive to explore them.  I came to terms with them myself long ago and I don’t see any reason to re-explore them since they don’t impact the relationship.

And I dont 'get' this.  I can't imagine finding it tedious and unproductive to explore ANY thought or feeling someone I care about has or has had.  It's part of what makes them 'them', and therefore interests me in understanding them better.  And I expect the reverse, would feel varying degrees of hurt if they reacted callously to my thoughts or feelings...as might be apparent by the fact that I *would* consider it callous.

quote:

ORIGINAL: catize
I don’t quite understand how being less than transparent affects the power exchange dynamic  


If your master doesn't expect it then you're not breaking any rules. But when they do, it's a case of disobedience and undermining authority.  Then it's not so much about being less than transparent (you always will be to some extent unless your dom is a Vulcan with mind-meld skills ).  It's about choosing to be less than transparent against their wishes and the rights you supposedly entrusted them with. 
 
For a dom I think it's about reading the manual so you know as much as possible about how the darned thing works. 

 

quote:

ORIGINAL: catize
But as I said initially, I don’t ‘get’ it and it may just have to remain a puzzle for me.


Not everything is for everybody and maybe this just isnt your, or your master's thing.  If you're both on the same page and everyone understands what that means and is good with it, then that says to me that you're with the right person.

_____________________________

“The truth doesn’t change based on our ability to stomach it.”
Flannery O’Connor

(in reply to catize)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: The hurdles of transprency!! - 3/19/2007 9:40:20 PM   
catize


Posts: 3020
Joined: 3/7/2006
Status: offline
quote:

 I think of transparency in a different way. I believe in it as being honest and upfront in all dealings, not hiding important things from your partner. I do not see it as he can literally read my mind, or that he knows what I am going to do before I do, or that he knows me better than I know myself. I think of it as if he wants to know something I tell him the most truthful thing I can. I do not hide parts of what is in me if he wants to know.  


 
Thank you, juliaoceania, your explanation is helpful to me!  My interpretation was perhaps too literal?  Anyway, I think I get it now, or at least can accept your version!

< Message edited by catize -- 3/19/2007 10:03:22 PM >

_____________________________

"Power is real. But it's a lot less real if it's not perceived as power."
Robert Parker, Stranger in Paradise

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: The hurdles of transprency!! - 3/19/2007 9:49:19 PM   
catize


Posts: 3020
Joined: 3/7/2006
Status: offline
quote:

 (you always will be to some extent unless your dom is a Vulcan with mind-meld skills ).


Ohhhh, I was going to be ‘woman enough’ to melt Spock’s logical, Vulcan heart!  (And yes, master is aware of that little tid-bit)

_____________________________

"Power is real. But it's a lot less real if it's not perceived as power."
Robert Parker, Stranger in Paradise

(in reply to mythi)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: The hurdles of transprency!! - 3/19/2007 9:49:56 PM   
charismagirrl


Posts: 297
Joined: 8/30/2006
Status: offline 		This is a tough one for me in alot of ways for a few reasons...

i can tell my Daddy ANYTHING about what happened to me in my past, he knows all of my skeletons and what those things have done to make me who and what i am now. He knows the good and most assuredly all the bad and ugly.

Problems for me arise when it comes to the NOW and stuff that goes through my, sometimes, torrmented/ing little mind. There are some major issues(from past experiences that effect my thinking now) and with those issues some major lessons that i am trying so hard to learn.

When something arises i try to put it out of my mind or work through it on myown but...it ends up taking root in my head and growing and linking things together that have no base in reality....Eventually after torturing myself and in the midst of this horrific little house of horrors that grows in my mind i will FINALLY talk to my Daddy about it.

Ultimately, after we talk he makes it all make sense and i feel a zillion times better and closer to him.

i've tried journaling but they always end up going off on tangents and become less than productive....obviously working the stuff through on myb own doesn't work but i have SUCH a viciously hard time talking to my Daddy about stuff that bothers me. i don't want to be a burden or bring something to him unless i HAVE to.

There is a rule that's now in place that says i have a day (24 hrs) to bring something up to him that's bugging me...if i don't i have to swallow it and put it out of my head. UGHHH needless to say talking to him is better than holding it all in.

Edited to add: The thing that Jeff mentioned about knowing someone and what's in their head before you meet them (after corresopondance) and the eerie feeling... that rings sooo true with my Daddy and i and that caused me alot of issue. That eerie feeling was hard to shake as well as the fact that i kept saying tohim "But, you DONT know me that well yet, how could you know this?" as time has gone on i'm realizing that he does know me really well, and YES sometimes better than i know me, but at first it was down right unsettling!


< Message edited by charismagirrl -- 3/19/2007 9:54:19 PM >

_____________________________

For today i won't say but...
For today i wont say just...
For today i will simply obey....
For today i will trust that You are right...
For always i will be your imperfect slave

http://www.mycollarspace.com

(in reply to mythi)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: The hurdles of transprency!! - 3/19/2007 9:58:30 PM   
Devilslilsister


Posts: 1262
Joined: 8/3/2006
Status: offline 		What did i do to become more transparent?   IMO - i find transparency disturbing, i find it unsafe, i find it not needed.  Unfortunetly for me, my opionon doesnt matter.  My Dom finds it a must and refuses to allow me to close off.  i've little choice in the matter.  He has his ways, his tactics, his sense about me that he has used to teach me to become more transparent with him.  Resistance is futile! ha  


_____________________________

My ability to cope with BS is at an all time low - me

i may look like i'm doing nothing, but i'm very busy at a cellular level

(in reply to classykindasassy)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: The hurdles of transprency!! - 3/19/2007 10:15:19 PM   
mythi


Posts: 257
Joined: 2/25/2007
From: Naples, FL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: catize

quote:

 (you always will be to some extent unless your dom is a Vulcan with mind-meld skills ).


Ohhhh, I was going to be ‘woman enough’ to melt Spock’s logical, Vulcan heart!  (And yes, master is aware of that little tid-bit)


I bet a lot of us wanted to nibble those pointed ears...before working our way down. *weg*

_____________________________

“The truth doesn’t change based on our ability to stomach it.”
Flannery O’Connor

(in reply to catize)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: The hurdles of transprency!! - 3/20/2007 2:57:42 AM   
agirl


Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline 		I think a little like Julia.

Transparency isn't something I think about at all.  Anything that is important and pertinant is uncovered naturally through talking. The trust I have in M has a lot to do with the fact that he fosters an atmosphere where layers fall away, they aren't prematurely stripped away.

I don't impart my every thought or worry or feel a need to, nor feel I should, at the time that I'm thinking them; I'm content to rest in the knowledge that they will float to the surface and be naturally discussed in their own time.

If something is difficult for me to talk about, then there's a reason for it........what M does is nibble at the edges of that and talks *around* it. He tends to ask questions in a comfortable conversational way until I find we've talked about it, almost without me realising.

He knows that I don't deliberately have guards up with him, so if there is a reluctance, it's not that I'm TRYING to hide things, it's just a little pocket that needs something more than the direct approach. Indicators are me saying * I'm not sure*, or * I don't really know*; they are avoidance techniques, or buying time because I'm uncomfortable.

He nips around the back while I'm not looking and steals in, and when he does, I'm more pleased to see him than if he'd crashed through the front door.

agirl







(in reply to leakylee)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: The hurdles of transprency!! - 3/20/2007 4:27:14 AM   
mstrjx


Posts: 2045
Joined: 11/27/2005
Status: offline 		I'm going to try and make this not rambling.  I might not succeed.

I'm aware that I'm privileged to not have distractions such that I can keep by BDSM headspace going all the time.  Therefore, I see a lot of things more 'black and white' than many.

Isn't it sad what several of you are saying?  Because of past relationships, stigmas, life experiences, etc., you have difficulties opening up; trust is not easy.

To paraphrase, 'If I let him/her see that extra side of me, I'll be more vulnerable.  My risks will be higher.  If something goes wrong I'll be more damaged tomorrow than I was yesterday.'

Wasn't that the point behind buying into this whole submissive thing?  <snark alert> Did you think you could get by putting on the maid outfit and serving tea?

I'm not saying that transparency is instant.  I'm always saying that your submission is a journey that finding 'you' or 'you as a couple' as the buried treasure at the end.

When I mentioned 'Slavecraft' above, it does imply slavery, which (yes) I feel is different than submission in this way.  To be quick, an owner DOES take responsibility over the slave completely, so the slave is FREE of self-thoughts and is more able to focus their attention on the owner.  The one thing held back is self-preservation, which is the ingredient needed if the slave needs to leave the relationship.

What I hear some of you saying is that you are invoking self-preservation (must....not....let....this....be....known) needlessly and possibly carelessly.  Dom(mes)/masters/mistresses/owners do what they do to make 'you' better, to make the relationship better.

Why do YOU want to make it more difficult?  Be courageous like you are (don't you think subs and slaves are courageous simply for being what they are?) and put your risks away.  If you don't think you can trust your partner enough then you have no business being there.

To reiterate, this is far different for me than for most.  If a question of trust comes up with me, I'm already insulted.  Yes, if I pay attention I can see through most anyone.  I don't think it's a gift; I think it's just the little extra attention that means I care, and I that I think you're worth knowing.

Jeff

_____________________________

Know thyself. It's the best gift you can ever give yourself.

(in reply to mythi)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: The hurdles of transprency!! - 3/20/2007 4:33:13 AM   
StellaByStarlite


Posts: 790
Joined: 2/10/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: catize

Although I can agree that master has some responsibilities for my well-being, that does not abdicate me from taking responsibility for myself.   There are many things that affect me that I don’t allow to influence the relationship.  If I’ve had a bad day at work, there are times I don’t need or want to talk about it.  I simply let it go and talk about other things. He is my master but that doesn’t mean he can change certain problems in my life.  Yes, he cares, but why burden him with stuff over which he has no control? 
My view and I believe that he would agree, is that our relationship is based on what we do together,  and both of us are more comfortable dealing with the here and now.      




Yeah, I can dig that. For instance.. if I bitched about my mother every single time she annoyed me, it would be practically every day. ( lol)  My owner already KNOWS my dear mother is a pain in the ass, I don't need to perseverate on it all the time.

Although he always wants to know if something is truely bothering me, he'll also get damn irritated if I interrupt his Sopranos reruns with monologues about how dustbunnies are formed. I mean, he seriously does not desire to hear every little thought that goes through my head, and who can blame him? lol. that would be the mental equivalent of being slowly poisoned for most people. =)

Cheers,
Stella

(in reply to catize)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: The hurdles of transprency!! - 3/20/2007 5:21:45 AM   
TNstepsout


Posts: 1558
Joined: 8/3/2005
Status: offline 		I tend to be generally very open and forthright about who and what I am. I don't always manage, if I'm untruthful, it's because I didn't know the answer myself. I guess that's why I spend a lot of time pondering my motives and thoughts so I can be truthful with others. The biggest problem I've experienced so far, is that a lot of people find "transparency" to be very uncomfortable, even when they themselves, have prompted it.

So, the most important thing I can say that Dom/mes must do, if they want to encourage this kind of open disclosure, is to make absolutely certain that you are ready and willing to deal with whatever comes out. I was about to say "able", but that seems a little too much to expect, however, if you do find yourself unable (as in you simply don't have the knowledge and experience) it is imperative that you do not transmit your discomfort to the sub/slave as if they have done something wrong. Do not ever trivialize or demean what your sub/slave reveals to you and always, ALWAYS make sure they know you honor and respect them for showing trust in you.

Oh, and do not use the battering ram method. Take it slow and have patience. Fortresses are not built in a single day and if you attempt to take them down that quickly you will end up with little more than smoking rubble. Remember, the goal is to have those gates opened to welcome you. 

(in reply to StellaByStarlite)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: The hurdles of transprency!! - 3/20/2007 5:43:38 AM   
catize


Posts: 3020
Joined: 3/7/2006
Status: offline
quote:






Posts: 1434
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline
I think a little like Julia.

Transparency isn't something I think about at all.  Anything that is important and pertinant is uncovered naturally through talking. The trust I have in M has a lot to do with the fact that he fosters an atmosphere where layers fall away, they aren't prematurely stripped away.

I don't impart my every thought or worry or feel a need to, nor feel I should, at the time that I'm thinking them; I'm content to rest in the knowledge that they will float to the surface and be naturally discussed in their own time.
 


I can certainly relate to this as well.  I have revealed things because it has come up in the context of a conversation but he doesn’t push past my comfort zone. As an example, I did, in the beginning explain that X is a hard limit because Y happened.  Minimum info, said matter-of-factly so he could decide whether or not to pursue the relationship.
***************************************************** 
And to all in general, if ‘transparency’ simply means open and honest communication, isn’t that what good relationships are based on anyway?
 
Maybe it’s my age (hee, I’m an old lady and master is an even older man).  Our soul searching was done long ago and we’ve come to terms with ourselves and our pasts.  “Today is a gift, that is why we call it the present.”


_____________________________

"Power is real. But it's a lot less real if it's not perceived as power."
Robert Parker, Stranger in Paradise

(in reply to agirl)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: The hurdles of transprency!! - 3/20/2007 5:56:12 AM   
mythi


Posts: 257
Joined: 2/25/2007
From: Naples, FL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: catize

I can certainly relate to this as well.  I have revealed things because it has come up in the context of a conversation but he doesn’t push past my comfort zone. ***************************************************** 
And to all in general, if ‘transparency’ simply means open and honest communication, isn’t that what good relationships are based on anyway? 
 


I think to me it means having to be open and honest even when it is past my comfort zone.  But then again I'm not very comfortable having comfort zones in the first place and wish, even expect, to be pushed past them. 

But hey, I'm weird.  lol

_____________________________

“The truth doesn’t change based on our ability to stomach it.”
Flannery O’Connor

(in reply to catize)
Profile   Post #: 40
Page:   <<   < prev  1 [2] 3 4   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion >> RE: The hurdles of transprency!! Page: <<   < prev  1 [2] 3 4   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.094