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Differentiating between "mere battle scars" n... - 3/20/2007 12:29:22 PM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		I'd never want someone who was so weighed down with past emotonal "baggage" from relationships and-or their break-ups, that they found it next to impossible to realize that a new one might indeed offer new possibilities completely distinct from "whatever happened before". It's how one can actually discern this in the new stages of a relationship, that I am wondering about.

I don't want to end up being guilty of dumping much of this on someone else (and am pretty aware of it as a possibility, and like to believe I try to avoid it, but then again I think I may need some time, too, and am taking it, to settlle and clear my mind), or setting myself up to have to handle undue amounts of it from someone else, to the point they fail to see me, or my actions, in any objective light.  

I realize to a degree that all human experience is subjective, but also think there are definite instances where "too much past baggage" (from either party) may have ruined what otherwise could have been a good relationship. Time is a good healer - but I am talking about what happens beyond a reasonable "healing period." 

We all probably know people who just seem to have a very hard time "getting over" the past (and I am not dissing them - I realize everyone's human. Heck, we've all been there, to a dgree, I imagine. But "too much" of it it can, most probably, put a damper on new attempts to engage in relationships, I am thinking, sometimes.)   

I realize that for some, this might be difficult to do, and that what may have happened in "the past" might indeed take time to process and work through. Everybody's human, after all. I guess I actually expect folks to have slight bits of "baggage" - I'd just hope it wouldn't interefere unduly w/activity or a relationship to its complete detriment, or being suspicious of the other person's motives to the point it completely did not jibe w/the other person's actions. But, being a sympathetic sort, I am still not sure I'd know "where to draw the line", so to speak.

I am wondering how any out there differentiate, when they are embarking on any new potential relationship, between someone w/ too much "past baggage", and someone who perhaps mulls over occasional "battle wounds," and how they handle it.
 
Do they talk it over? Recommend counselling? break up, or what? What have some found to be "too much" baggage to deal with?  I am sure these instances exist. I am asking just because I am hoping to hear instances where people have dealt with these types of situations.
 
Where have people out there found it has so gotten in the way of things, that it became a real detriment to a relationship? (I realize this is a somewhat subjective judgment as well, but am curious and think it is an interesting, and potentially helpful Q.) If people feel uncomfortable relaying their personal experiences, then they can talk about it as a hypothetical situation.

I am asking out of curiosity and thanks for any replies (for anyone who is wondering if I am in defensive mode for some reason. I am not - and that is maybe hard to get across on the internet. I really am simply wondering and thinking about it in an objective light, and just think it is an interesting Q.

This must be my day to mull and think, etc. I am not really seeking personal advice, and am holding off on new developing deeper relationships right now (for the time being anyway). But - I will say I can envision valued friendships developing, along w/occasional "sceneing". I am asking a general Q (for future reference) - and appreciate all thought and comments along that line. Thanks in advance for any replies.

- Susan  

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 3/20/2007 1:09:49 PM >

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RE: Differentiating between "mere battle scars&quo... - 3/20/2007 12:42:39 PM   
dawntreader


Posts: 3045
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Status: offline 		For me, baggage is something you choose to carry and battle scars heal and make you stronger. A little simplistic , i know, but i try to keep things simple in this overactive mind of mine~

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There is a war going on for your mind...if you are thinking, you are winning~
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RE: Differentiating between "mere battle scars&quo... - 3/20/2007 12:47:56 PM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		Thanks for the reply.

- Susan  

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

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RE: Differentiating between "mere battle scars&quo... - 3/20/2007 1:46:22 PM   
charismagirrl


Posts: 297
Joined: 8/30/2006
Status: offline 		One thing i've noticed recently aboout my personal baggage and something i think is worthy of take notice of when you are getting to know someone is the fact that "baggage" reacts differently with different people.

In an M/s or D/s relationship you are expected to put alot more trust in someone than you may need to or be expected to in a vanilla one (not saying that one is better than the other it just IS)...So then what i've found with myself is that my baggage gets triggered alot more.

Also, if you happen to be with a Daddy like mine, one who is trying to teach and guide and heal alot of stuff then those wounds get touched on alot more (ever notice how after you go to a doctor for an injury you end up hurting worse after they've "messed" with it?) This may not be the same in every BDSM relationship...depending on the baggage of the sub/slave and the style of the M or D.

One persons baggage may be excess and you might get "charged extra" for it when you check it at the curb but to another that same baggage may seem like a simple carry-on overnight bag.


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RE: Differentiating between "mere battle scars&quo... - 3/20/2007 2:51:28 PM   
SusanofO


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Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		I see what you are saying, and I was thinking the same thing. In many ways, I think if you accept someone, you accept them, "baggage" and all. What's absolutley intolerable to one person, might be just fine with someone else, and they might actually welcome, or at least accept the chance to help someone work some of it through. Personally, I have a longer fuse re: This sort of thing, but don't automatically think that means the other person has to, as well (although a wee bit of reciprocation is appreciated (and I usually get it, fi I ahve an "issue"), I definitely think people have a right to their "limits" re: That kind of thing).

I can also envision situations where one person makes it virtually impossible to allow trust in the other to develop, through little fault of their partner, due to too much "baggage" or whatever. I just see this area as so situational, but realize there are times people just really run out of patience w/someone who won't "let go of the past"(and maybe for good reason).

I also get confused on this also because even if it isn't a true LDR, I know freinds of mine I really appreciate and even love, who indeed have "baggage". They talk about it with me, and I listen,and they are gradually letting some of it go (although in one instance, I did recommend counselling because I had so little familairity w/some of the issues the person was attempting to deal with).

I asked I guess because I can be a really sympathetic sort, and can see that leading to both definitely great and also possibly not so great situations in a loving, deeper relationship (whether it is an LDR, or locally). I also am just not sure where  my head is at, some days, and lately it seems to change, grow, back-track, and then inch forward - and some days, I am just plain confused - but one thing I don't plan to do is bury myself and ignore dealing with it all (anyway, I do think its a worthy topic).

I just thought it might be an interesting topic of discussion. Any comments and-or personal revelations welcome.

- Susan   

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 3/20/2007 3:40:37 PM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

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RE: Differentiating between "mere battle scars&quo... - 3/20/2007 3:06:03 PM   
sub4hire


Posts: 6775
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Status: offline 		Everyone in the world has some sort of baggage.  The key is to learn from it and move on.  Allow it to help you become a better person.  So the next relationship you may not repeat the same mistakes again.

We repeat until we learn.  For some it seems to take forever until we learn.  You know the old saying if we don't learn from history we are deemed to repeat it.

As far as trusting another goes.  It may take you longer to trust but that doesn't mean if you meet the right person it won't develop in time.
Never say never.  Time heals all wounds.

Just be open with the next and communicate.  Let them know what you've been through.  Let them know what you have done to improve upon yourself and if they want you they will be willing to work with you.  You will also have to work with their baggage.

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RE: Differentiating between "mere battle scars&quo... - 3/20/2007 3:08:54 PM   
veronicaboundcd


Posts: 101
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Status: offline 		It has been written, that our lives, and very being, are simply comprised of every experience we have ever encountered, and relationships, whether vanilla or scene related, become part of our lives forever. These are the things which make us the person who we are. How we deal with all of this can certainly effect the way we interact with others. Like everything else in life, you just have to weigh the goods against the bads, and determine if it is worth carrying the baggage, whether it's your own, or someone elses.

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RE: Differentiating between "mere battle scars&quo... - 3/20/2007 3:09:06 PM   
SusanofO


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Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		Thanks for the reply, sub4hire.

Have you been in a relationshp w/someone who had what you considered an overwhelming amount of past "baggage" they seemed to refuse to deal with? If so, how did you handle it? Maybe you haven't, in which case, pass on the Q.

I am thinking sometimes people don't really know these things about others until later on into a relationship, and by then they love the person anyway (unless they rejected them because they had  too many "issues" that were screaming from a first meet, or something - so they just accept it as part of that person, and it can be okay, and it's considered either nuetral, or something that can be worked on (but not always - I mean I can certainly imagine it getting in the way of things in particular instances, say if someone has just put up a complete "wall" and won't let anyone else in at all (despite insisting that they are trying, or that they are). It would make a relationship next to impossible, I'd think).  

-Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 3/20/2007 3:17:26 PM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

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RE: Differentiating between "mere battle scars&quo... - 3/20/2007 3:14:54 PM   
SusanofO


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Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		thnaks for the reply, veronicaboundcd.
 
I know my ex-Dom had family relationship issues that I was sympathetic to - I listened to those, it didn't necesarily interfere w/his "Dominant ability" (and we broke up entirely for other reasons, although there might have been some connection in a "we are the sum of our experiences" sense, for the most part, he was reasonably good for the majority of the relationship, as a Dom). He decided to cross a line, he definitely knew I wasn't comfortable with (to put it mildly, but it wasn't really something he had to do, I felt, so we broke up).

Anyway, how to tell if someone just has "issues" that aren't going to be able to be workable? I really get confused about this. I suppose in many ways, it is an individual judgment call, and all what people think they can live with. I am attempting to get a handle on it at least a little, so I don't end up saying, "but I really did think we could work it out" (when it maybe something was too big an obstacle from the start).  

I realize it also depends on the obstacle in question, IMO. It's hard perhaps to speak about hypothetical situations, but if I knew someone had a big drug problem, for example, from the get-go, I don't think that is something I'd feel obligated to stick around for, and endure, although I might encourage them to get help.

It can be such a fine-line for me, sometimes, to judge, that I am just not sure - and I have a big heart. On the other hand, I don't want to get all entangled in a situation that is just going to wreck me, emotionally.I do have a picture in my head of the kinds of qualities I'd desire from someone - and it's not a huge list of impossible stuff (some of it is discerning, but a lot I consider just "basic").

In Domme mode, this is much less of a problem for me (regardless of the fact I haven't been a Domme yet, I just imagine myself making it very clear there are certain things I just don't put up with.)

In submissive mode, though (I am a Switch) it can become harder to judge where that "fine line" is, sometimes. Non-consensual abuse is not a judgment call for me (I leave, and it's that simple). Other situations I see as "fuzzy" as far as judging (for me) - such as someone "pushing limits" in a manner I think is too hard or too often, etc.

Anyway, people, thanks for all the comments.

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 3/20/2007 3:49:40 PM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

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RE: Differentiating between "mere battle scars&quo... - 3/20/2007 3:39:05 PM   
veronicaboundcd


Posts: 101
Joined: 1/4/2005
Status: offline 		Often the baggage doesn't show up until the ship has sailed, and you already find yourself involved. When I meet anyone, whether vanilla or lifestyle, I try to keep an open mind, but tend to look for warning signs or hidden agendas. I'm not a teenager, and throughout my life I've dealt with plenty of people on every level you can think of. Although people are capable of change, they uaually don't .... so past history plays a big part in how they will exist in the future. I know this sounds hard, but in most cases it's very true, and for me, it's a good yardstick to determine just how heavy that baggage may be.

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RE: Differentiating between "mere battle scars&quo... - 3/20/2007 3:44:53 PM   
SusanofO


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Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		Great reply, veronicaboundcd. I appreciate your comments.

- Susan

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

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RE: Differentiating between "mere battle scars&quo... - 3/20/2007 5:05:44 PM   
sub4hire


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO

Thanks for the reply, sub4hire.

Have you been in a relationshp w/someone who had what you considered an overwhelming amount of past "baggage" they seemed to refuse to deal with? If so, how did you handle it? Maybe you haven't, in which case, pass on the Q.



I am in one with someone now.  Or I was.  Without giving my entire life scenerio here on open board.  Anyone who knows me knows what I have dealt with in life.  They also know somewhat of what Doug dealt with.
Neither one of us is afraid of counseling and we've both done our bouts with it.
A lot of times people tend to refuse because they aren't ready to face themselves.  Their fears, etc.  It still doesn't make them a bad person.  It makes it harder for us to cope until things get handled. 
You merely take things day by day.  Do a lot of thinking.  Hope they are on the same page as you are.  If not, if you don't rush into anything (which in my opinion you shouldn't anyway) you have signals to tell you there are issues long before you are involved.
It is always your choice to proceed or put the brakes on. 
I always tell new subs to never forget to value themselves.  So many do just that.  Watch out for yourself first and foremost.  Make the right choices for you and in the end you will never go wrong.

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RE: Differentiating between "mere battle scars&quo... - 3/20/2007 5:21:32 PM   
mstrjx


Posts: 2045
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Status: offline 		I think we need to look to our reptilian friends for our behaviour.

Slithery and slimy.  (Wait, that's the answer to a different thread.)

Snakes shed their skin every so often.  In other words, they have the ability to start anew.  Wouldn't it be nice if we were able to do that as well.

I made some comments about baggage in another thread earlier today, but I want to make a different sort of reply here.

The more I think of what 'baggage' really is, the more I come to a realization that might be of value.  (Then you can go all Rodney King on me here, too.)  I see this as being part of that whole 'knowing yourself' thing that I espouse.

What is baggage but an insecurity that we have allowed someone else to heap upon us?  An insecurity that is pointed out to us that we somehow buy into believing about ourselves?  If you know yourself, respect yourself, love yourself, it almost becomes like that children's saying - sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me.

If you can steel yourself from failings in past relationships and come out with the same sort of self-esteem, then it IS possible to shed the old relationship and treat a new one anew.  Right?  RIGHT?

If you, for some reason, cannot, then you have allowed negativity break through and have made yourself vulnerable, this time to yourself.  Then you have baggage, that someone (be it yourself or a future partner) needs to resolve and/or hopefully remove.

This would explain why I have great difficulty (for myself alone) understanding some of the issues that are brought here.  (I have no trouble seeing issues with others, but somehow don't have many of my own.)  I am very difficult to 'touch'.  It is nearly impossible for another to alter my thinking about myself; only I can do that and I have no fears of/from myself.

Jeff

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RE: Differentiating between "mere battle scars&quo... - 3/20/2007 5:29:48 PM   
dawntreader


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Status: offline 		Once again, i have to say "well said"... i guess i am just on this same wavelength these days - getting rid of that which does not enlighten or empower me~
busy shedding my skin :-)
 
         

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There is a war going on for your mind...if you are thinking, you are winning~
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RE: Differentiating between "mere battle scars&quo... - 3/20/2007 5:40:24 PM   
Celeste43


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From: NYS
Status: offline 		Well, people grieve at different rates. But if three years later someone's still filled with anger at their ex or heartbroken because he betrayed her, then it's time to get help moving on. What really lies beneath all that is fear, fear that if they try again they could get hurt. And they're right, they will get hurt. Someone will say something that hurts them. Their partner might die and leave them alone, they might die first. They will be hurt because that's a given when you're human.

And yes, if you're still stuck three years later I think you ought to go in for therapy because if you could move on by yourself, you would.

However all the therapy in the world won't change your core. So if you know that you get insecure when your partner doesn't contact you for a week in a LDR then you need to put frequent contact on your must have list and you need to bring this up so the other person understands. If he says he won't be held to a schedule and he will contact you only when and if he feels like it, you say thanks but no thanks because your needs don't mesh.

Know yourself really well and communicate your needs to others clearly and directly. And address problems immediately because if you wait six months before telling him he won't believe it's a big problem. The more you put up with stuff, the more the other person believes you will always put up with stuff. Deal with it beforehand if you can, and certainly the first time it appears. Untreated problems fester.

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RE: Differentiating between "mere battle scars&quo... - 3/20/2007 5:55:08 PM   
CreativeDominant


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Celeste43

Well, people grieve at different rates. But if three years later someone's still filled with anger at their ex or heartbroken because he betrayed her, then it's time to get help moving on. What really lies beneath all that is fear, fear that if they try again they could get hurt. And they're right, they will get hurt. Someone will say something that hurts them. Their partner might die and leave them alone, they might die first. They will be hurt because that's a given when you're human.

And yes, if you're still stuck three years later I think you ought to go in for therapy because if you could move on by yourself, you would.

However all the therapy in the world won't change your core. So if you know that you get insecure when your partner doesn't contact you for a week in a LDR then you need to put frequent contact on your must have list and you need to bring this up so the other person understands. If he says he won't be held to a schedule and he will contact you only when and if he feels like it, you say thanks but no thanks because your needs don't mesh.

Know yourself really well and communicate your needs to others clearly and directly. And address problems immediately because if you wait six months before telling him he won't believe it's a big problem. The more you put up with stuff, the more the other person believes you will always put up with stuff. Deal with it beforehand if you can, and certainly the first time it appears. Untreated problems fester.


Celeste...there is a huge amount of what you say above that I agree with...EXCEPT that my viewpoint is that if you have issues with insecurity, that is something that is wrong within you.  Therapy can help change that, if you let it.  When you ask someone to contact you every day so that you will not feel insecure about him or the relationship reveals a void that the partner may not be able to fulfill on his own.  I know that it takes time to build insecurity within a person.  Many wounds from many sources.
And perhaps...by handling it in a way that works for the partner at the start to make them feel more secure, that security will take hold.  But...what if it does not?  What if the person requires ever more contact as they fall deeper under your "dominant sway"?  What if they require more compliments about how well they are doing and they react to any suggestion that they did something wrong with nearly-inconsolable grief and cries of "please don't leave me" when all that you have corrected them for is putting too much starch in shirt?  Do you continue increasing all you are doing?  Insecurity in a relationship is often not just a sign of self-esteem but the lack of trust in the other partner which comes about from insecurity and the often concomitant feelings of not "being worthy". 

I know we can't all become new people each time our hearts get broken or someone stomps on us or our feelings...but neither can we continue to hold on to all those things that may've contributed to the downfall of our past relationships.  As you noted...anger is a good example.  A bit of healthy skepticism and a bit of healthy leakage of the notion that most people are inherently good is fine...a widespread suspicion that all men are cheating assholes only to be trusted when your eyes are upon them or that all women are bitches out for your money is not. 

I posted this on the transparency thread and I am going to add it here as I think it is something that holds true here as well:

There is much in the following article... http://www.stpt.usf.edu/hhl/papers/Real-Men.htm ...to disagree with but two points do seem well-stated:

"Relationships falter for any number of reasons. For instance, intimate relationships can be neither established nor maintained unless the partners know and trust one another. Unless they know each other, they cannot promote each other's needs. Unless they trust each other, their fear of being hurt will circumscribe communication. Moreover, their interests -- although they need not be identical -- must be sufficiently overlapping so neither continuous conflict nor absolute acquiescence is inevitable."  Isn't open and honest communication one of the things we strive for in D/s?   

"Even when two people know, love and trust one another and have reasonably similar interests, external conditions can undermine intimacy. Job pressures, family illness or difficulties with children make regular and sustained conversations between partners difficult. Without intimate communication to nourish them, they will grow apart.  (And without trust, how difficult is intimate communication?)  Small troubles evolve into big problems. Big problems become insurmountable hurdles. Relationships are dashed on the rocks of miscommunication and misunderstanding."
(((The bold-ing of the remarks above is my doing as well as the statement in parentheses

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RE: Differentiating between "mere battle scars&quo... - 3/20/2007 7:26:45 PM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		I apppreciate all the answers and thoughtful responses. It's really been helpful, truly, to me.

I have some people here (*especially one particular male submissive who is dear to me - you know who you are, at least I hope so) who really do listen well also, in private, and are so kind. The reason I brought this up on the message board was that when I stopped to think about it - I thought well, maybe other people have found themselves in the same situation, and I wondered how they viewed such situations - I suddenly realized that in the past 2 situations I'd been in w/male Dominants, I listened at length, and repeatedly, whenever they had problems or situations they wanted to discuss, yet when I had an area of disagreement, or a larger concern I seriously wanted to discuss, suddenly I was the one who had "issues". 

But it took me awhile (especially in one case) to realize that was what was really happening. It almost seemed as if the goal was somehow to make me feel insecure (which would have been okay, except these things were large concerns to me (and I really am not what I'd call a "whiner")  - and I thought their response was  really f___ed up. Of course you're never supposed to say that if you're a submissive. Oh well).

I do realize that not all Dominants are like that, and certainly am not flaming all male Dominants (not by a long-shot, they're not "all like that", I know there are some who appear to be really great ones I see around), and it's also possible I could have mis-perceived the situations (you had to be there I guess; it's always hard to describe exactly how something went down). I should put it all to rest anyway, probably, for my own good - but it's been rolling around in my brain, and then I started to get confused.

I honestly didn't know where the fault lay (and since both situations are over, I suppose it's now moot). But I just don't want it to happen all the time, or at least happen less. I do also really think sometimes that this kind of situation really can sometime be more difficult for submissives (whether male or female). Heck, if I get into a relationship, I just want the person to know I care and that they can talk to me, too - and I wouldn't care if they were a Dominant or a submissive - especially if they've been kind enough to listen to me, and if I was trying to establish trust, etc. 

And I also really realize there are things that don't need much discussing. But in these two instances, (I admit I probably did wait too long to bring them up) they really, really were larger concerns of mine, and I felt they were kind of shunted aside, and I saw that as a bigger problem, actually, than the problem I was intending to discuss (if 'ya know what I mean).

I do feel better, though, having gotten all this out (thanks for listening).

-Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 3/20/2007 8:07:34 PM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

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RE: Differentiating between "mere battle scars&quo... - 3/20/2007 8:39:09 PM   
TemptingNviceSub


Posts: 3054
Joined: 10/1/2005
Status: offline 		We all know in our heads that it is not fair to paint a new person in our lives with the paintbrush of a past relationship..but we still do so...it makes you wonder though...which is worse?..battle scars or baggage?..I think both carry within them a tendency to always be there..yes scars will fade and stop hurting, but they will always be there ,always a reminder..baggage can always be left to the side of the road, for it increases in weight with every step and mile you walk..and we as humans can be stubborn and hang onto our baggage, because we think it holds all the wisdom we have garnered in our lives..It is only when we can proudly display that scar, or that we can allow another in our lives to help us carry our baggage..then maybe will we be able to accept the scars and baggage in our lives and come out the better for it and not the worse....Tempting

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RE: Differentiating between "mere battle scars&quo... - 3/20/2007 8:50:17 PM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		What a beautiful answer, TemptingNviceSub.
 
- Susan

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to TemptingNviceSub)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Differentiating between "mere battle scars&quo... - 3/20/2007 9:14:04 PM   
FelinePersuasion


Posts: 4792
Joined: 11/20/2004
Status: offline 		I gave him 5 months to make some headway and clearly at the end of 5 months he didn't do anything to help himself so I left him.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO


Have you been in a relationshp w/someone who had what you considered an overwhelming amount of past "baggage" they seemed to refuse to deal with? If so, how did you handle it?


-Susan


_____________________________

Most of the time if it looks like BS, smells like BS, you probably should not t taste it to see if, in fact, it is BS.


(in reply to SusanofO)
Profile   Post #: 20
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