RE: When D/s springs from vanilla -or- how long does it take?

RE: When D/s springs from vanilla -or- how long does it take? (Full Version)

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CreativeDominant -> RE: When D/s springs from vanilla -or- how long does it take? (3/21/2007 11:55:23 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DominaSmartass A recent thread on a D/s relationship losing it's D/s element prompted this question: How many of you have been in relationships that began is vanilla (or possibly just the sharing of kink in the bedroom) and evolved over time into D/s, M/s, or TPE, etc? Along the same lines - when meeting someone new or starting a new relationship with someone who you know is your potential D/s counterpart, do you begin D/s from the start or cover the vanilla parts first and then move into it? Or maybe they are simultaneous for you? I'd enjoy hearing your experiences. In my marriage, one of the routes we took towards trying to save the marriage was in bringing the D/s into it. For many reasons...my involvement on the internet prior to our confrontation over it, the lingering resentment held by me as to what had helped to bring us there, her facade of effort to be submissive while covertly maintaining her vanilla outlook, my overenthusiam...it failed. I could not go back to being vanilla and, as stated on another thread, have no intentions in the foreseeable future of doing so. I know they never say never but looking at myself, that is pretty much how I am thinking. So, there is always a certain dominant perspective that I come from when approaching any new relationship. That level varies depending on the person I am dealing with and what I feel towards them though I strive to be careful not to attempt to dominate what has not been given me to dominate. I try to cover vanilla and D/s simultaneously as they share equal importance in my mind and in my emotional outlook. Let's face it...I understand the need for courting someone and winning their trust and earning their respect and that everything comes in steps but with all that said, to me it seems a bit silly and mundane to expect a dominant man to act like an average, everyday Joe. Just as it would seem silly to expect a submissive woman to act like your average, everyday girl from Ipanema. And that is not casting dispersions on the vanillas nor attributing mythic characteristics to dominants/submissives, just recognition of the fact that we are coming at this from a standpoint of "we do this thing which is different and it is a big part of our lives...why act as if it isn't there?"

DominaSmartass -> RE: When D/s springs from vanilla -or- how long does it take? (3/21/2007 1:49:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant just recognition of the fact that we are coming at this from a standpoint of "we do this thing which is different and it is a big part of our lives...why act as if it isn't there?" Good point, and I definitely wouldn't encourage anyone to ignore it. It's just that it seems kind of tricky to me to balance the act of submitting to someone while still trying to determine if he or she is someone that you feel comfortable submitting to and feel that he/she is worthy of your submission. I'm talking here from the sub's POV. There must be some point, whether it really does happen before the first date or whether it's a month down the road, or any amount of time, when the sub thinks "Yeah, this person has enough in common with me that I could submit to him/her without worrying about him/her violating my principles." But if you don't get to know the person before making that decision, aren't you setting yourself up to possibly be put in a position that does go against your (to use a word that sounds cliche to me now) limits? It doesn't even have to be physical but, for example, a dom and sub could talk about things and agree that the sub's work and social life are of utmost importance and should not be tampered with by the Dom. Everything can be talked about and you can appear to be on the same page but at what point do you submit to his order that you go into work late in order to serve him, especially if being late is a risk to your success at work? If you are the submissive from day one, there is no room to see if the dom will actually follow through with his word on matters of importance. Whereas if you get to know the person without an exchange of power from the start, you have time to examine the person's behavior over a period of time and decide to submit based on more than just their words. Does this make sense? I'm just really curious as to when and how this happens in relationships because for the life of me I can't see it working if you assume the roles of dom and sub from moment one. Of course this does not equate with ignoring the roles, but engaging in a very limited capacity of power exchange until knowing one another better.

kyraofMists -> RE: When D/s springs from vanilla -or- how long does it take? (3/21/2007 1:58:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jauntyone You ask either of my parents who is in charge and they will both answer my father. You ask them if their relationship is based on equality,and my mother will be the first to laugh in your face and say no way. Just for the reference, my mother is a surgeon, my father is retired military who now builds houses in his spare time. My dad has a favorite saying, "I have her trained just the way she wants me." They both know who is in charge of the relationship and the family. She is definitely the boss in every way. Though she does not know the specifics of my relationship, she had (and maybe still does) a hard time with it because I was not being the dominant woman that she raised me to be. Knight's kyra

CreativeDominant -> RE: When D/s springs from vanilla -or- how long does it take? (3/21/2007 6:25:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DominaSmartass quote: ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant just recognition of the fact that we are coming at this from a standpoint of "we do this thing which is different and it is a big part of our lives...why act as if it isn't there?" Good point, and I definitely wouldn't encourage anyone to ignore it. It's just that it seems kind of tricky to me to balance the act of submitting to someone while still trying to determine if he or she is someone that you feel comfortable submitting to and feel that he/she is worthy of your submission. I'm talking here from the sub's POV. There must be some point, whether it really does happen before the first date or whether it's a month down the road, or any amount of time, when the sub thinks "Yeah, this person has enough in common with me that I could submit to him/her without worrying about him/her violating my principles." But if you don't get to know the person before making that decision, aren't you setting yourself up to possibly be put in a position that does go against your (to use a word that sounds cliche to me now) limits? It doesn't even have to be physical but, for example, a dom and sub could talk about things and agree that the sub's work and social life are of utmost importance and should not be tampered with by the Dom. Everything can be talked about and you can appear to be on the same page but at what point do you submit to his order that you go into work late in order to serve him, especially if being late is a risk to your success at work? If you are the submissive from day one, there is no room to see if the dom will actually follow through with his word on matters of importance. Whereas if you get to know the person without an exchange of power from the start, you have time to examine the person's behavior over a period of time and decide to submit based on more than just their words. Does this make sense? I'm just really curious as to when and how this happens in relationships because for the life of me I can't see it working if you assume the roles of dom and sub from moment one. Of course this does not equate with ignoring the roles, but engaging in a very limited capacity of power exchange until knowing one another better. Yes, it makes sense and I know it is difficult for a submissive...probably much more so than the dominant. Part of that difficulty comes though from the many sides set up by some for the dominant to bounce around against. Many may be worthwhile but let's face it...it can be a minefield. Here's a couple of mines... Show me you are dominant without dominating me but do not expect me to show submission... even if it is not to you but rather just behavioral in my interactions... because too many dominants then think you ARE submitting to them Show me you are capable of following through on your responsibilities in the manner a dominant would but again, without dominating me nor expecting me to show any of the things I am capable of doing as a submissive because most of those involve some sort of service to you and ... I am not your submissive So then...where is the power exchange coming from if not mainly from the dominant? Don't get me wrong...I know it can work because it has for me and for others on here. But I also know that there seemed to be a great deal of os so very careful handling of things so that I did not...as you put it...go into role or expect her to.

LadyPact -> RE: When D/s springs from vanilla -or- how long does it take? (3/21/2007 6:59:19 PM)
Sorry, once again, for not reading the entire thread before replying. The funny part about this is, My husband had no idea I had any BSDM experience until just a few months ago. We were doing a little sexual mfm exploration when I happened across My last pet, who was very open about being a sub. My old lifestyle personna came back very quickly under that dynamic. He had the opportunity to learn things that were almost second nature to Me and found that he liked that side of Me quite a bit, though he is not a sub himself. For a long time, we were nothing but a vanilla couple. Now, My past experience has opened a lot of potential possibilities. Some of which we explored with My last pet. Some of which we have yet to encounter. Since I don't currently have anyone wearing My collar, I guess it would be best said that we are back to vanilla, just waiting for our next match with a good male sub. It's kind of funny, in a way, since that part of Me was put to sleep for so long. Now that I know it has been awakened and this is something we can explore together, I can not wait for a good match to come our way.

MaamJay -> RE: When D/s springs from vanilla -or- how long does it take? (3/22/2007 3:17:07 AM)
To michaels4evr - your Dominant needs to find a Dominant mentor or two. Preferably in real life, if you can join a group near you. In Australia, in most major cities there is a discussion group called LookingGlass, which gives people chance to get together and talk about bdsm, learn from each other, and make friends. And your local scene may also offer munches (social gatherings) or workshops or play parties. All can be a great way for your Dom to learn from others. That's not to say He should simply copy what He learns ... it's more a matter of exposure to new ideas to sift through and decide what fits Him. And it can be a listening ear and some wise advice too. If real time isn't an option, then He might be able to find an online Dominant friend to correspond with, or of course, reading the boards here is an education in itself! These methods sure worked for Me! Good luck! Maam Jay aka violet[A]

StellaByStarlite -> RE: When D/s springs from vanilla -or- how long does it take? (3/22/2007 4:38:22 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DominaSmartass Does this make sense? I'm just really curious as to when and how this happens in relationships because for the life of me I can't see it working if you assume the roles of dom and sub from moment one. Of course this does not equate with ignoring the roles, but engaging in a very limited capacity of power exchange until knowing one another better. It makes perfect sense, that's exactly how the Mister and I started out. I was the one who initially introduced him to kinky sex while we dated. We played around with bondage and spanking for a long time before entering into a consensual slavery agreement. In our case, it's just a way of extending the roles that were already there beneath the surface anyway. He's actually the one who brought it up as something he really wanted. I created a monster. ;) There are pros and cons to having a solid vanilla history before changing to an O/s dynamic. The pros are that for us, the trust and commitment is already there. We know each other very well, we settled pretty much all serious communication issues in the context of a vanilla married couple. The cons are... having a solid vanilla history before changing to an O/s dynamic. Old habits die hard. Expectations get all muddled. And, of course, there are the Ums we both raise. Like, right now, my biggest hurdle is transition. I want to feel like a slave, I strive to be a slave. But the majority of my time is spent being a mother. When all is said and done, my owner and I have a vanilla core to our relationship. What we are experimenting with right now is a more extreme extension of how we are naturally with each other. If he woke up tomorrow and told me he didn't want to do this anymore, it wouldn't be the end of our marriage at all. My wedding ring at this time means a hell of a lot more to me then my collar. We have a built-in commitment to us, which is security, which is great for building even more layers of trust. If a mistake is made by either one of us, it's not the end of the world. = ) I met and fell in love with the vanilla, non-kinky man, but sometimes I wonder if one of the reasons I fell so hard was because subconciously I reacted to his dominant tendencies. Who knows? I just feel very lucky =) Stella

slavegirljoy -> RE: When D/s springs from vanilla -or- how long does it take? (3/22/2007 5:46:48 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: StellaByStarlite And, of course, there are the Ums we both raise. Like, right now, my biggest hurdle is transition. I want to feel like a slave, I strive to be a slave. But the majority of my time is spent being a mother. Stella i don't see a conflict with being a slave and being a mom, too. i was submissive for many years before i had my first baby and i have remained submissive after having children. Just like with any couple, sexual activities (in whatever form they may take) can be a very important part of the relationship and that doesn't need to change just because children become a part of the family. W/we just don't expose the kids to any blatant sexual acts. That's private and not for them to see or know about. But, i still serve my Master 24/7, just as i always have. i don't stop or change how i serve Him, whether kids or others are there or not. i always address Him as "Sir", i always show Him absolute respect, i always sit where i am told to sit and do what i am told to do and make sure He and the kids are fed before i am, and all of the other things that are a part of what makes me a slave, except for the overt sex acts, of course. i have no problem being a full time mom and a 24/7 at the same time. my kids wouldn't say that there mom is a "slave", because they don't think in those terms, although they might think or say that i work like a slave. They just know that i am their mom and this is the way i have always been. (Some might say that i am a slave to my kids, as well.) i think my kids have had a very good upbringing and have been exposed to a good model of how a woman and man should treat each other, which is always with respect and thoughtfulness toward the other. i don't see any reason why a slave can't or shouldn't be a mom also and why being a mom should have any conflict in her ability to serve her Master. i always feel like a slave because that is what i am and will always be. slave joy Owned property of Master David

mixielicous -> RE: When D/s springs from vanilla -or- how long does it take? (3/22/2007 5:50:04 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kyraofMists she had (and maybe still does) a hard time with it because I was not being the dominant woman that she raised me to be. Knight's kyra its the small stuff like that makes me thankful mine isnt here to see me. i know she would be heart broken. oh well.

jauntyone -> RE: When D/s springs from vanilla -or- how long does it take? (3/22/2007 5:50:09 AM)
quote: I want to feel like a slave, I strive to be a slave. But the majority of my time is spent being a mother. Greetings stella I mean no disrespect, but I am curious. Why do you feel that both can not be present at the same time? Even while being a soldier, I am still a slave to Master I wish you well, melissa

mixielicous -> RE: When D/s springs from vanilla -or- how long does it take? (3/22/2007 5:51:38 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: StellaByStarlite I met and fell in love with the vanilla, non-kinky man, but sometimes I wonder if one of the reasons I fell so hard was because subconciously I reacted to his dominant tendencies. Who knows? I just feel very lucky =) Stella i think a lot of girls in this thread can share this sentiment. i sure can.

mixielicous -> RE: When D/s springs from vanilla -or- how long does it take? (3/22/2007 6:07:16 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RPutnamJr The problem with your question is that it does not take into account people who are vanilla to start with and then move into a D/s M/s relationship. After all by posing the question to all of us, I would argue that we have all in one way shape or form been in D/s M/s types of relationships. Thus we can go from vanilla to chocolate very quickly. isnt this exactly what was being asked? did i miss something here? i dont understand you van to choc metaphor ... quote: Ultimately how long it takes is totally dependant upon the person you are trying to train. I don't think you will get very far making a dominant vanilla person to submit totally to your will if they have been raised not to submit at all and to show their dominance instead. On the other hand you might get them to submit faster if the person is submissive in nature. assuming things will only make an ass out of you and umption. i am strongly dominant in my everyday life [blue collar for most of it] didnt take shit from anyone, except my lovers; whom i would bend over backwards to satisfy. i was raised to be completely independent of men by my mother, and yet still had service tendencies, even as a vanilla. it took a mere 4 months to completely enter slavery for this tom boy. quote: This being said nobody can truely answer your question truthfully, unless they tell you about how they became Dominant/submissive in the first place. After all every relationship since then has built upon prior experiences and thus is easier to slip back into their natural order of things from vanilla relationships. well, i would like to think i centinally can, since leaving the vanilla world this has been my only M/s relationship. [;)] quote: A vanilla person might fall on either side of the spectrum but ultimately they are one or the other in some way. Thus the question becomes when or how do you introduce the vanilla person into a D/s M/s relationship? My answer to that is through training. Baby steps. why cant i have both? my vanilla side [which really isnt this alter ego, its just me. a title put on my mundane intrests] represents nothing more than who i am day to day. my life was not up heaved since i found M/s, my routines didnt change and neither did my outlooks. i had a natural tendancy towards submission, i just didnt have a name on it then. i would like to think that van and choc are part of who you are and that i do not dismiss my "other half" just because i can recognize wholely who i always was. the only difference now is i am not ashamed to believe in natural order. i am not trying to do any attacking, just havent had coffee yet, lol [8\|]

sambamanslilgirl -> RE: When D/s springs from vanilla -or- how long does it take? (3/22/2007 6:30:30 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: StellaByStarlite Like, right now, my biggest hurdle is transition. I want to feel like a slave, I strive to be a slave. But the majority of my time is spent being a mother. divorced working mother of 2 with one being a traumatic brain injured for the last 7yrs and at first i was like you, trying to figure out how to juggle 3 "hats" at once. Daddy's guidance, i learned that i could be both a submissive, mother, and concert reviewer at the same time. He knows my 2 and/or work will occupy most of my time - we chat briefly in the morning however time in the afternoon and evening is reserved for him (unless i'm working that night). it's almost like a light switch for me, i know when to turn on my submissive side and when to shut it off. on a funny note, my 2 think it's cool to see their mom wearing her collars in public especially my leather dress one. my oldest called it "corporate punk" on Saturday when i wore it with my suit to speak at a community conference. my youngest is jealous and wants a pretty collar from Daddy too however they both understand that i have a very special friend (they refer to Daddy as Uncle Brad) whom i chat with online and phone. Daddy thinks it's cute when my youngest talks to Him commenting she's definitely a split image of my personality. since Daddy has experience with TBIs, i'm able to seek His medical advice about treatment and medications for my oldest.

StellaByStarlite -> RE: When D/s springs from vanilla -or- how long does it take? (3/22/2007 7:28:03 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jauntyone Greetings stella I mean no disrespect, but I am curious. Why do you feel that both can not be present at the same time? Even while being a soldier, I am still a slave to Master I wish you well, melissa Maybe because the Mister and I are both very aware of how we present ourselves to the Ums. Or maybe because the stress and chaos of everyday life (which I'm ordered to keep to a minimum, lucky me, haha) just interfere, period. Ums are everyday life, aren't they? I mean, even in a vanilla relationship unmentionables are distractions. Why should O/s be any different?

StellaByStarlite -> RE: When D/s springs from vanilla -or- how long does it take? (3/22/2007 7:47:48 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slavegirljoy i don't see any reason why a slave can't or shouldn't be a mom also and why being a mom should have any conflict in her ability to serve her Master. i always feel like a slave because that is what i am and will always be. slave joy Owned property of Master David Good for you. =) I never said one couldn't be a slave and a mom at the same time, I just said I personally was having trouble with transitions. We've only been "at this" since November, so it's not abnormal to have some conflicting issues. I'm certainly not going to feel less submissive or slavey because of it, either. Hey, life happens. This thread is probably going to be pulled anyway, but here's an example: I'm a housewife and stay at home mother right now. When the brats come home, I help them with their homework, fix the required snacks, engage in the "chore list battle of wills", start dinner.. and generally stick to my owner's most sacred command- Keep The Damned Chaos To A Minimum. After dinner, another small battle of wills takes place, this time over the dishes, haha! Thank god the weather is getting warmer and the days are getting longer, I can now throw the little buggers outside. <g> Anyway.. by the time they go to bed.. between 8:30 and 9, hell yeah, I'm a bit worn out. The Mister expects more one on one personal service, and quite truthfully, there are times I have to push myself. The Mister and I never expected day to day stress to completely disappear after our relationship change. I think to expect otherwise is setting the whole thing up for possible failure.

StellaByStarlite -> RE: When D/s springs from vanilla -or- how long does it take? (3/22/2007 8:06:05 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sambamanslilgirl divorced working mother of 2 with one being a traumatic brain injured for the last 7yrs and at first i was like you, trying to figure out how to juggle 3 "hats" at once. Daddy's guidance, i learned that i could be both a submissive, mother, and concert reviewer at the same time. He knows my 2 and/or work will occupy most of my time - we chat briefly in the morning however time in the afternoon and evening is reserved for him (unless i'm working that night). it's almost like a light switch for me, i know when to turn on my submissive side and when to shut it off. That's absolutely wonderful. =) and the "switch" is exactly what I'm striving for right now. Very much a work-in-progress, lol. As a single mother I'm sure you understand... one really can't be submissive to your Ums. It is very hard for me to go from "leader" to "slave" in the course of the day. on a funny note, my 2 think it's cool to see their mom wearing her collars in public especially my leather dress one. my oldest called it "corporate punk" on Saturday when i wore it with my suit to speak at a community conference. my youngest is jealous and wants a pretty collar from Daddy too however they both understand that i have a very special friend (they refer to Daddy as Uncle Brad) whom i chat with online and phone. Daddy thinks it's cute when my youngest talks to Him commenting she's definitely a split image of my personality. since Daddy has experience with TBIs, i'm able to seek His medical advice about treatment and medications for my oldest. Your inner strength must be amazing. =) My own situation is very mild by comparison, so hearing your experiences is a bit of an inspiration, so thank you so much for sharing it! The collar the Mister and I are really lusting after is too expensive right now, so I have one of those jeweled chain padlocked ones for now ( Hey! Only $13 at SubShop!). My unmentionables just looked at me like I was nuts and asked why I was wearing a lock around my throat. I just shrugged and answered "Cuz it's cool! Eat your dinner!" That was pretty much the end of that, rofl.

NControlofU -> RE: When D/s springs from vanilla -or- how long does it take? (3/22/2007 11:23:11 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: StellaByStarlite quote: ORIGINAL: slavegirljoy i don't see any reason why a slave can't or shouldn't be a mom also and why being a mom should have any conflict in her ability to serve her Master. i always feel like a slave because that is what i am and will always be. slave joy Owned property of Master David I'm a housewife and stay at home mother right now. When the brats come home, I help them with their homework, fix the required snacks, engage in the "chore list battle of wills", start dinner.. and generally stick to my owner's most sacred command- Keep The Damned Chaos To A Minimum. BRATS?! That's a real nice way to reference your children. It sounds like you might need to rethink your attitude toward your children and work on your mothering skills before becoming so concerned about how to balance being a slave with being a stay at home mom. Sure am glad my slave doesn't call the kids "brats". quote: Thank god the weather is getting warmer and the days are getting longer, I can now throw the little buggers outside. <g> What an attitude for a mother to have toward her own children!

iamMasters -> RE: When D/s springs from vanilla -or- how long does it take? (3/22/2007 11:56:01 AM)
For goodness sake NcontrolofU lighten up, I read those posts to mean she loves them and is talking with affection-nothing else. Back to the Topic When we met and married we didn't even know there was such a thing as BDSM or D/s realationships. We found we had desires for things that were not 'normal' growing, investigated them via the internet and books and then realised that we both wanted it and it grew from there. We have had great fun learning and growing, the small people know nothing of it and although I wear a very modest collar (which looks like a normal necklace) no one else who doesn't need to know has any idea of the lifestyle we lead.

StellaByStarlite -> RE: When D/s springs from vanilla -or- how long does it take? (3/22/2007 1:13:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NControlofU BRATS?! That's a real nice way to reference your children. It sounds like you might need to rethink your attitude toward your children and work on your mothering skills before becoming so concerned about how to balance being a slave with being a stay at home mom. Sure am glad my slave doesn't call the kids "brats". [quote What an attitude for a mother to have toward her own children! Yeah, okay, cupcake. You couldn't tell I was using those terms in a non-serious way? Oh, I get it.. you're one of those winners that roam around just looking to be offended. I'd take this further, but one of my little boogerpicking devilspawn needs to be locked in the basement. Don't you HATE it when they need fed??

IrishMist -> RE: When D/s springs from vanilla -or- how long does it take? (3/22/2007 1:17:26 PM)
quote: I'd take this further, but one of my little boogerpicking devilspawn needs to be locked in the basement. Don't you HATE it when they need fed?? LMFAO you go girl

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