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RE: Was Saddam Hussein a Threat to the U.S.? - 3/21/2007 9:43:10 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline 		Fine. Then how does the US *Win* the Shi'a/Sunni Iraq Civil War?

If you're not in favor of disengagement/redeployment, or you don't have confidence that a MEU can just, should a government support 9/11 style terrorists, roll on in and remove the "Bad" Government?

We did it in Afghanistan.

We did it in Iraq, and IRAQ didn't even do anything to us!

So we have demonstrated our willingness to do it. Why the reluctance to bring the troops home, let them sharpen their knives, and not be incidental targets in a Sectarian Civil War?


_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to caitlyn)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Was Saddam Hussein a Threat to the U.S.? - 3/21/2007 9:58:19 AM   
caitlyn


Posts: 3473
Joined: 12/22/2004
Status: offline 		Would solutions be enough for you fargle?
 
I remember your post not long ago, about F-22's flying off target. You could see the glee in your words ... as if the only thing that would have made it better, was if the poor pilots would have had to ditch and been eaten by sharks.
 
You aren't solving anything. I don't think you really want to. You are the other side of Rush Limbaugh.
 
That's only my opinion, and as Sinergy says ... I could be wrong.
 
Off to class ... have a great day.

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Was Saddam Hussein a Threat to the U.S.? - 3/21/2007 10:09:39 AM   
puella


Posts: 2457
Joined: 12/2/2004
Status: offline 		Hello NorthernGent,

I will take a guess in saying that the majority of Americans may have heard something about some Downing Street something, but have no idea what they really are or their implication.  Given the lack of any kind of schooling in civics for our own nation, there is even less knowledge available about most other countries.

_____________________________

We must move forward, not backward, upward, not forward, and always twirling, twirling, twirling towards freedom...... The Simpsons

War is God's way of teaching Americans geography." ...Ambrose Bierce

"Don't you oppress me!"....Stan/Loretta

(in reply to NorthernGent)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Was Saddam Hussein a Threat to the U.S.? - 3/21/2007 10:18:56 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

Would solutions be enough for you fargle?

I remember your post not long ago, about F-22's flying off target. You could see the glee in your words ... as if the only thing that would have made it better, was if the poor pilots would have had to ditch and been eaten by sharks.


I call BULLSHIT! Provide citations to support your characterization of my comments. ( Perhaps you should have reviewed the actual thread before your mischaracterization? )

Perhaps an ad-hominum attack is all that could be mustered, in response to my very pointed, very illustrative question?

We'll just put your response down as , "I can't articulate a strategy for the US to Win the Shi'a/Sunni Civil War".


_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to caitlyn)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Was Saddam Hussein a Threat to the U.S.? - 3/21/2007 12:39:21 PM   
caitlyn


Posts: 3473
Joined: 12/22/2004
Status: offline 		First, my apologies for the attack. I didn't mean to do it at the time, but reading back, it was clearly an attack, and not called for.
 
Answer to you question, I think a lot of senior military men have indicated that the additional troops we sent, have a chance to make a difference. One I know personally, thinks the biggest mistake we made in Iraq, was not sending enough troops initially. We had planned on greater support (perhaps foolishly) and when we didn't get it, making the decision to go in short staffed may have been foolish. The situation having worsened, this option will probably take more time to have an effect, assuming it even has an effect.
 
Based on the desire of senior commanders, it seems worth giving a try.

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Was Saddam Hussein a Threat to the U.S.? - 3/21/2007 1:45:05 PM   
NorthernGent


Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: puella

Hello NorthernGent,

I will take a guess in saying that the majority of Americans may have heard something about some Downing Street something, but have no idea what they really are or their implication.  Given the lack of any kind of schooling in civics for our own nation, there is even less knowledge available about most other countries.



Hi Puella,

That's a shame then because the leak from the British goverment exposes the motives of the US government. The British government have not denied the details (which tells a story). According to Wikipedia, the US government have also never denied the details. Only sections of the US media have tried to rubbish it. I was curious to know if Wikipedia is spot on or wide of the mark.





_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to puella)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Was Saddam Hussein a Threat to the U.S.? - 3/21/2007 7:20:32 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RPutnamJr

Given the level of militantcy within their government and their general population. I would say it is safer to go to war than to wait and find out what would happen if terrorists or Iran gets nuclear material. Especially given the open climate and how easy it would be to smuggle a bomb into the USA.



I disagree.  I think this is a US media creation.

The country that gets Iran's bomb will probably be Isreal.

Or possibly Iraq, so they can move in and take over the unused real estate.

quote:



Should we do more on our own yes, such as in securing our boarders. But we must also be realistic. There is only so much we can do. To elimiante the threat before it becomes a threat is much easier to accomplish, than to wait until the threat happens and then deal with it, for then it may be too late.

So I pose the question back to you? Do you want to take the chance and then live with the consequences of inaction or face the potential threat and face the consequences of our actions?



The one approach the United States has not taken involves negotiating with terrorists and asking them what the hell will make them go away and leave us alone.  Would be a lot less expensive in terms of human lives and money to build them a nice training camp in Urkidurkistan (reference to Team America, World Police) than the approach the Simian In Chief is using.

For all you reactionary types, I would like to point out that the approach we are currently using is NOT working.  I did not say we should immediately give it to them.  I simply said it might be worthwhile to ask the question.

Sinergy



_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to RPutnamJr)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Was Saddam Hussein a Threat to the U.S.? - 3/21/2007 7:30:53 PM   
puella


Posts: 2457
Joined: 12/2/2004
Status: offline 		I haven't checked wikipedia (I have some issues with the site, by principal) but I will do so, and I agree.. it is a travesty that citizenry of my country has not paid attention to these very important documents.

_____________________________

We must move forward, not backward, upward, not forward, and always twirling, twirling, twirling towards freedom...... The Simpsons

War is God's way of teaching Americans geography." ...Ambrose Bierce

"Don't you oppress me!"....Stan/Loretta

(in reply to NorthernGent)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Was Saddam Hussein a Threat to the U.S.? - 3/21/2007 8:23:46 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline 		puella,

The best way to approach any sensitive topic in Wikipedia is to hit the 'discussion' ( or 'talk') tab, and see what the editors are talking about behind the scenes. USUALLY, all the gory details are summarized pretty well in their discussion of the page's content.



_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to puella)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Was Saddam Hussein a Threat to the U.S.? - 3/21/2007 9:44:13 PM   
Royalton


Posts: 53
Joined: 6/22/2005
Status: offline 		I believe that until 9/11/01 Houssein was not a threat in the sense of conventional threat (via missile)  But, because of the potential stockpile of radioactive or biological material (let's remember that Saddam ignored 17 UN resolutions and blocked inspections), after 9/11 it was perceived that Iraq could give some of it to nutty muslims terrorists.

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Was Saddam Hussein a Threat to the U.S.? - 3/21/2007 9:52:11 PM   
TheMastHead


Posts: 27
Joined: 10/13/2005
From: Jag2u612
Status: offline 		Yes and listen to your own words and realize America has never before started a war based on "perceptions" perceptions that would falsely promoted by the likes of Dick Cheney, Colin Powel and of course Howdy Doody himself GW Bush! Before you call Muslim's nutty terrorist look at what we did in the name of retribution and freedom?! Where do you think the insurgents are getting all their weapons from? Any idea who America hired to whack an unpopular leader of Iraq back in the early 60's? Yea our wonderful CIA hired a man named Sadam Hussein! Not to forget the money and weaponry we handed him to fight Iran because we were mad they wanted the Shah kicked out and held us hostage in the process. What a tangled web we weave and then we point the finger at everyone else. I don't hate America just the people currently running it.

(in reply to Royalton)
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RE: Was Saddam Hussein a Threat to the U.S.? - 3/21/2007 10:17:20 PM   
FangsNfeet


Posts: 3758
Joined: 12/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

What do you think and why?



If Saddam was truely a threat, we wouldn't have been kicking his ass for the last ten plus years. However, there was an underlining cause for finally taking him out of power.

Saddam was a threat for one reason. If Saddam wasn't going to follow rules and not face consiquence, then others will follow suit and decide to break rules as well. We had to enforce the saying "The buck stops here." 





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I'm Godzilla and you're Japan

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Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Was Saddam Hussein a Threat to the U.S.? - 3/21/2007 11:49:29 PM   
subfever


Posts: 2895
Joined: 5/22/2004
Status: offline
quote:

Was Saddam Hussein truly a threat to the U.S.? If so, what form might that threat have taken?


Hussein was never a military threat to the U.S.

He became a financial threat, however, when he stopped accepting dollars for oil and began accepting euros instead.

As things stand today, no country can conquer the U.S. with their military. The only way to defeat us is to collapse our monetary system.

When other countries must use dollars to pay for oil, this creates a strong global demand for dollars. If the global demand for dollars is reduced by a large enough percentage, the monetary system will collapse.

The leaders of the Middle East, as well as most of the world, are well-aware of this fact.

(in reply to dcnovice)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Was Saddam Hussein a Threat to the U.S.? - 3/22/2007 5:35:12 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Royalton

I believe that until 9/11/01 Houssein was not a threat in the sense of conventional threat (via missile) But, because of the potential stockpile of radioactive or biological material (let's remember that Saddam ignored 17 UN resolutions and blocked inspections), after 9/11 it was perceived that Iraq could give some of it to nutty muslims terrorists.



Either wasy HUSSEIN was NEVER a threat to the United States. You state he wasn't a threat "in the sense of conventional threat".

That's a NO. NOT A THREAT.

And IF he POTENTIALLY had WMD, and POTENTIALLY could distribute them, then the RECEIVERS OF THE WMD, The "nutty muslim terrorists", would be the threat.



_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to Royalton)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Was Saddam Hussein a Threat to the U.S.? - 3/22/2007 5:52:15 AM   
FangsNfeet


Posts: 3758
Joined: 12/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle


quote:

ORIGINAL: Royalton

I believe that until 9/11/01 Houssein was not a threat in the sense of conventional threat (via missile) But, because of the potential stockpile of radioactive or biological material (let's remember that Saddam ignored 17 UN resolutions and blocked inspections), after 9/11 it was perceived that Iraq could give some of it to nutty muslims terrorists.



Either wasy HUSSEIN was NEVER a threat to the United States. You state he wasn't a threat "in the sense of conventional threat".

That's a NO. NOT A THREAT.

And IF he POTENTIALLY had WMD, and POTENTIALLY could distribute them, then the RECEIVERS OF THE WMD, The "nutty muslim terrorists", would be the threat.




Royalton,

I have a gun,  base ball bat, and collection of knives. I'm a potential threat to kill just about anyone. I have batteries, alcohol, skol, tons of cleaning chemicals, and baking soda. I can distribute these itemes if I choose to do so. Should the police bust down my door and take me to jail because I'm potentially dangerous?

_____________________________

I'm Godzilla and you're Japan

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Was Saddam Hussein a Threat to the U.S.? - 9/11/2008 1:47:21 PM   
TheMastHead


Posts: 27
Joined: 10/13/2005
From: Jag2u612
Status: offline 		After all the books many of them written by former Bush appointees and Generals who served for Bush and in Iraq you are still asking the question? He was a minimal threat and I can't help but see Republican back speak in the question itself! The same kind you are seeing now in the so called race. Our fallen economy, jobs sent overseas never to return, The Fraudulent War, what happened to "Mission Accomplished" Republicans live in bizarro world when we were getting our asses kicked they tried to blame it on Democrats as if we were planting the cell phone bombs and car bombs. Don't forget Dick Cheney's lame ignorant joke "They will run out of suicide bombers". Don't need suicide bombers with remotely activated bombs now do you Dick? So similar to Vietnam in that a lessor armed foe is hitting and running and we can't punch or counter punch fast enough. We supply the world with weapons including Sadam Hussein I know you on the right don't remember history but we did when he was our pal cause he was attacking bad Iran. Now he is gone and bad man or not stability in the region that Saddam supplied is now gone.

Forget Palin they want you to waste energy on her! How about the 72 year old man who picked her? The right has never had a PC safe pick. Now they think they have one. If Obama was getting a free ride they might have a point he has not. Forget the polls kids and forget right wing fire drills (flag burning/guns/God/gays) Obama gets well over 90% of the black vote which represents 18% of the voting population. Therefore a net 16%. Latino's have always split there vote. Not this time Obama is getting 60% to two thirds of them. they represent antoher 18 % of the voting block. A net 11 to 12 % there. He is up to roughly 28% of the vote without a white person casting a ballot. Other minorities will bring Obama to 33% or one third. Now the youth vote represents 20% of the population meaning under 30 to 18. They are favoring Obama by 25% sometimes more That now puts Obama at 45% without any of the usual voting blocks coming into play. When they do he will have a lot more than the 50% needed to win this race.

Yes not every state has equal numbers of minorities so that will help McCain in the lousy electorial college. But even with that in the so called battle ground states Michigan, PA, Florida, Ohio fahgetaboutit! And shame on my race scared white males who can't get over a new generation having their turn at running the show. It was the "experience" of McCain that got us into this mess. He had a chance to separate himself form Bush we saw no "Maverick" then did we? He hugged him! Disgusting! The man who trashed him out of the race in 2000! Be a man John spit in the guys face! Oh yea and the punk in the mini skirt who majors in fertility apparently! When the second line of your resume says "Mayor of Wasilla" you don't go to the White House except as part of a tour like the rest of us! This party has driven the average American into debt and given the richest 1% a tax break during a war unprecedented in American history. That tax break was in 2005 I must have missed the trickle down affect on the economy???

No Virginia there were no WMD's and Saddam was a middle of the road Dictator more dangerous than Edi Amin of Uganda (who died of old age in Libya I might add) but far less dangerous than Kim IL June of Korea who has nuclear material but thankfully no way yet of delivering it as a weapon. Oh by the way former and current third world countries like Pakistan and India have nukes along with China, Russia, many of the Balkan Republics that broke off from Russia and of course most of our E 7/8/9 European allies also. We can't scare anyone with nukes anymore nor do we have any system (SDI/Star Wars is pie in the sky Pentagon bullshit) capable of preventing us from an attack. So how is it John McCain is going to keep us safe again? Same as GW Bush did during Katrina! That is when the whole country learned "Homeland Security" is a joke! The joke sadly is on us just like Saddam Curator of Terrorism. Its a straw man a false image created to distract the easily distracted from the real truth which is Iraq was about oil and how is that working out at the pump for us? Oh did here hey? 7 years to find it and process it and then it becomes part of a global market not just an American Market. China will up the price maybe Europe but nothing will keep it here at say $2.00 a gallon like right wingers try to oversimplfy it down to!

_____________________________

Jag

(in reply to dcnovice)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Was Saddam Hussein a Threat to the U.S.? - 9/11/2008 2:15:07 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		What a cooincidence, I was just watching his hanging on YouTube last night.

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"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

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Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Was Saddam Hussein a Threat to the U.S.? - 9/11/2008 2:56:03 PM   
candystripper


Posts: 3486
Joined: 11/1/2005
Status: offline 		dcnovice; congratulations on becoming 'condemned', lol.
 
Hussein may have had ill will towards the US, but his country was not even the one hosting the terrorist training camps which led to 9/11.  I'm sure many bad people lead nations and bear us ill will; if he had not been sitting on a huge deposit of oil, we never would have trumped us the fevor to go to war with him.
 
Was he a threat?  I don't know..is Pakistan?  North Korea?  Shall we pre-emptively strike every country who leader we don't approve of?
 
This was a transparant grab for money by warmongers in the U.S.
 
candystripper 

(in reply to dcnovice)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Was Saddam Hussein a Threat to the U.S.? - 9/11/2008 4:57:41 PM   
subrob1967


Posts: 4591
Joined: 9/13/2004
Status: offline 		Last time I read the decleration it stated, "Terrorists, and states that sponsored Terrorists".

Saddam sponsored terrorists orginanisations like Hezbollah, and Hamas, therefore was a legitimate target...End of story

Al Queda, and WMD decryers need not respond, we heard it all before.

(in reply to candystripper)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Was Saddam Hussein a Threat to the U.S.? - 9/11/2008 5:00:40 PM   
Aneirin


Posts: 6121
Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

We can all agree that Saddam Hussein was not a nice guy. He was a brutal tyrant, he surely hankered for WMD (whether or not he possessed them), he invaded Kuwait, and so forth.

But that's not why we went to war against him. We invaded Iraq because, we were told, Saddam posed an imminent threat to the United States, so grave that the "smoking gun" could be a "mushroom cloud." Four years, later we remain at war in Iraq.

So I'm wondering not about what Joe Wilson thought or who outed Valerie Plame but about the key, core question: Was Saddam Hussein truly a threat to the U.S.? If so, what form might that threat have taken? How imminent was it?

What do you think and why?




Every military regime needs a Bogeyman, Hussein was a bogeyman for the time. What you have to ask, is who is going to be the next bogeyman, the reason to wage war wherever.

But what is war really about, stopping someone from living or for commerce ?


_____________________________

Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

(in reply to dcnovice)
Profile   Post #: 60
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