Effective Gun Control in England (Full Version)

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FangsNfeet -> Effective Gun Control in England (3/23/2007 7:35:46 PM)

It was once said "Guns kill people." England has great gun control policies where no one is allowed to own a gun. No one gets shot nor killed by a gun. In theory, if you take away the guns, you take away murder. However, the theory of taking away guns has run into a little snag.  

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/4788930.stm

With this news, why are so many gun ho on banning guns when the truth points out that people kill people?



FukinTroll -> RE: Effective Gun Control in England (3/23/2007 7:38:05 PM)

Hmmm... who is he going to kill with the vest?



NorthernGent -> RE: Effective Gun Control in England (3/23/2007 7:41:39 PM)

You're comparing the US to the wrong country. We have similar levels of serious crime. The tool is pretty much irrelevant - murder is murder. Britain and the US have higher levels than the rest of the developed world - Australia being the exception.

Try the comparison with France or The Netherlands.

Anyway, I can't believe anyone believes guns kill people. Seems short-sighted to me. The problem is a failing society.




LadyEllen -> RE: Effective Gun Control in England (3/23/2007 7:51:58 PM)

No shootings or gun incidents in the UK? You do mean this UK yes? The one with London as the capital?

Yes, they took away our guns for the sake of public safety - after two psychiatrically ill guys, who should never have got a licence in the first place since mental illness was ever a contraindication to such a grant, ran amok. And gun crime has gone through the roof since, albeit that its mostly confined to drug gangs popping shots at one another.

But I can go and get a gun right now if I go to the right pub. And not some pathetic handgun either, but a sub machine gun. Its all there if you have the money (and we're not talking thousands, but hundreds) and know the right people.

Trouble with banning guns is, the law abiding owners who never posed a threat will comply. Whilst those who couldnt care less about the law are the ones doing the shootings before and after such a ban.

E



FukinTroll -> RE: Effective Gun Control in England (3/23/2007 7:56:41 PM)

Ditto! Only the bad guys will be packing.



gooddogbenji -> RE: Effective Gun Control in England (3/23/2007 8:01:22 PM)

Yeah, but without it, the law-abiding whackos carry them.  (See Citizen, American)

Yours,


benji



FangsNfeet -> RE: Effective Gun Control in England (3/23/2007 8:07:05 PM)

The whole point is that you don't need a gun in the first place to kill. Knives, swords, rocks, and bare hands work pretty darn good.

I've told anti gun wackos before, "If you take away the guns, you'll have an increase of murders by melee attacks." The number of knife attacks in London proves my point.

Now, knives are the target for banning. Before you know it, you'll start seeing more anti knife laws. How are people going to cutt roast beef?

After knives are banned, you'll have to have to ban base ball bats. After bats, you'll have to ban tools. After tools, you'll have to ban cars, pool sticks, and rocks. After that, everyone will have to be in cuffs, have there ankles chained, and wear a foam mask over there head.

With or without aide of a device, people will kill people. Take away what you want. It will not prevent murders and death. 



FukinTroll -> RE: Effective Gun Control in England (3/23/2007 8:08:19 PM)

Hey! I am a law-abiding wacko who has guns... paranoia... and no trespassers.



farglebargle -> RE: Effective Gun Control in England (3/23/2007 8:13:26 PM)

quote:

The whole point is that you don't need a gun in the first place to kill. Knives, swords, rocks, and bare hands work pretty darn good.


Didn't I read in The Scotsman about a blade ban?




ArgoGeorgia -> RE: Effective Gun Control in England (3/23/2007 8:14:24 PM)

Once knives are banned, it will be much easier to just ban eating meat, right?  So no worries about cutting that roast beef!

We might as well just cut to the chase and ban people, they are the most dangerous weapons around!



FukinTroll -> RE: Effective Gun Control in England (3/23/2007 8:16:11 PM)

So is soylent green a processed meat that you don’t have to cut?



LadyEllen -> RE: Effective Gun Control in England (3/23/2007 8:16:33 PM)

I'm a law abiding ex gun owner. I'm mature enough to go to work to provide for me and mine, I'm responsible enough to pay my taxes on time and to drive my car sensibly; I dont even park in the wrong place or speed over the limit. I'm old enough to vote and stand for election. I'm so well thought of that I'm permitted to send my children to war.

But should I have a gun, clearly I'd become insane and start shooting random people for no reason. 'Cause why else would I not be permitted a gun?

E



dcnovice -> RE: Effective Gun Control in England (3/23/2007 8:17:11 PM)

<fast reply>

This seems to be my night for quoting Eddie Izzard. Second thread in a row.

And the National Rifle Association says that, "Guns don't kill people, people do,” but I think the gun helps, you know? I think it helps. I just think just standing there going, "Bang!" That's not going to kill too many people, is it? You'd have to be really dodgy on the heart to have that… ( imitates gunfire noises ) I think they should just try that, you know.



ArgoGeorgia -> RE: Effective Gun Control in England (3/23/2007 8:18:30 PM)

mmmmm, soylent green  *drool* 

Tastes like chicken!



LadyEllen -> RE: Effective Gun Control in England (3/23/2007 8:20:44 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

quote:

The whole point is that you don't need a gun in the first place to kill. Knives, swords, rocks, and bare hands work pretty darn good.


Didn't I read in The Scotsman about a blade ban?




Under 18s, maybe under 21s are now not permitted to buy anything with a blade. Stupidly, this includes safety razor blades, which young men might not want their mommy to have to buy for them.

It is forbidden and always was, to carry any form of weapon in the UK. Mace would get you at least a large fine and maybe a custodial sentence here. The law abiding are meant to go about defenceless against those who, being disinterested in the law, are likely to attack them.

And if you should defend yourself and injure the robber or even burglar in your own home who attacks you, you will be the one arrested for assault and possibly sued by your "victim" to boot.

E



NorthernGent -> RE: Effective Gun Control in England (3/23/2007 8:21:23 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: FangsNfeet


I've told anti gun wackos before, "If you take away the guns, you'll have an increase of murders by melee attacks." The number of knife attacks in London proves my point.



You're missing a pertinent fact which doesn't fit your argument.

Britain has never had a gun culture or a high level of gun-related murder. Knife attacks have always been prevalent in Britain - it is the weapon of choice, here. Hence, my point that you're not comparing like with like. There is no correlation between reduced gun ownership and increased knife attacks.



LadyEllen -> RE: Effective Gun Control in England (3/23/2007 8:23:35 PM)

Maybe NG, but there is a striking coincidence between the ban on guns and a massive increase in gun related crime.

E



farglebargle -> RE: Effective Gun Control in England (3/23/2007 8:30:23 PM)

from gunowners.org

quote:


Why Adopt a Vermont-style CCW Law?

Several states are considering adopting "Vermont-style" concealed carry legislation. Most of the Carry Concealed Weapon (CCW) laws in the country require citizens to first get permits. But in a couple of states, like Vermont, citizens can carry a firearm without getting permission . . . without paying a fee . . . or without going through any kind of government- imposed waiting period. There are many reasons for a state to adopt a genuine right to carry law:

1. Carrying a firearm is a "right" not a "privilege"

The Second Amendment guarantees that "the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed." This means that law-abiding citizens should not need to beg the government for permission to carry a firearm. That would turn the "right" to bear arms into a mere "privilege." Likewise, one should not have to be photographed, fingerprinted, or registered before they can exercise their Second Amendment rights. Criminals certainly do not jump through these "hoops." The Second Amendment is no different than any of the other protections enumerated in the Bill of Rights. That is, honest citizens should not need a government issued permission slip; rather, they should be able to carry as a matter of right. ...


I do not believe it a coincidence that Vermont has the among the lowest per-capita crime rates in the nation.




popeye1250 -> RE: Effective Gun Control in England (3/23/2007 10:14:54 PM)

LadyEllen, why are you an "ex" gunowner?
When I go to N.Y.C. I carry a gun.
If I ever have to use it I'm not exactly going to hang around and make a "police report." "Shoot and scoot."
When I go to Ireland I carry a knife and pepper gas.
I just put them in with my checked luggage and no problem.
The only place you need them over there is Dublin, Limerick (stab city) and Derry and Belfast.



Nosathro -> RE: Effective Gun Control in England (3/23/2007 11:19:07 PM)

I am a Criminolgist...there has never been any study the proves removing guns reduces crime or even murder.  I recall last year reading in England a call to return the Death Penalty after a Woman Bobby (They do not carry guns) was shot when answering a hold up.  According to the article..it seems there is a rise in unarmed police person being shot by the bad guys who are carring guns.  France is also reconsidering the Death Penalty.  Mexico with the problems of the Drug Gangs and killing Officals who oppose them is also considering a Death Penalty. 
 
In my State..California..The County Sheriffs decides who can carry a conceled firearm.  In my County just make a sizeable contribution to the Sheriffs reelection campain..he will not only issue you a concealed firearms permit but make you a Deptuy as well.
 
I wish you well

Nosathro



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