RE: The Issue With Fidelity

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MrDiscipline44 -> RE: The Issue With Fidelity (3/25/2007 7:21:45 AM)
I wonder, was there anything you stopped doing when you married him? IME, nine times out of ten the woman stopped doing the things that landed her a husband after landing him, not realizing that in do so, you stopped attracting the man laying next to you. By the time they realize it, two, four eight years later, it's most often too late to regain his interests. This also tends to happen after she has given birth. I guess it really doesn't matter because what you're really wanting is for someone to give you the go ahead to fuck around on your husband.

julietsierra -> RE: The Issue With Fidelity (3/25/2007 9:33:08 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SusanofO 4) Then I would pack my bags and leave for a week or two (see if you can stay w/ a friend, or a distant* relative who can keep their mouth shut re: All this (all you need is relatives hounding you about your personal business), or at a hotel or motel) to consider your next move - and also to let him know you are deadly serious that you have zero intention of putting up with this situation for years on end. IMO - If he appears to not take your concerns seriously, and has no "plan of action" to address them - he needs an effective wake up call, and leaving for a week or two might do the trick. He can watch your child (and also will find out what things would really be like if you left, for good, then, regardless of that not probably happening re: You leaving your child). He needs a good scare, frankly, and if he has working brain cells, and any sense of reponsibility, he is an adult, and is capable of arranging for a sitter while he is at work - what would he do if you died, for example? I'd not let that concerns about a grwon adult's ability to mcare for his own child stop me from leaving for a week or two, if I found it necessary to make it clear just how painful this situation has become to you - the future of your marriage depends on it, very possibly, IMO. I am not at all suggesting you'd actually leave your child for good - I am saying he may need a serious wake up call if he just "poo-poohs" your concerns (which is what he's done so far, apparently). He is capable of child care (or at least figuring out how to get that done, for a week or two, I'd think. He'll have to do it too, if you are not there - won't he?) *Do not take your child with you and just disappear, or he could have you arrrested for kidnapping. I'm not a big advocate of scare tactics. Generally, they backfire. If you're going to leave, and you "can't bear" to be without your other family members, then you take them with you. If you're going to leave, be very sure that's what you want to do. If you do go and he begs you to come back and you do with no discernable changes having taken place prior to your return, you've just lost incredible amounts of respect and credibility in his eyes (that's directly from my ex about how he felt toward me when I did this very same thing). If you come back because he's begging you to, he knows he doesn't have to do a damn thing. If you leave the family members, you have given the appearance of abandonment. Be very sure you want to go before you ever go. And then, make it the final decision. Be true to yourself and have integrity. Leaving to scare someone is simply manipulation at its worst. Put your concerns on the table. Allow him to make his decisions regarding what he wants for himself and you make decisions regarding what you want for yourself. Work through what you can and be very sure about the rest. And that's from a been there/done that perspective. Also, you can't be arrested for kidnapping your own child unless there is a child custody agreement with the court in effect, so this is incorrect. juliet

SusanofO -> RE: The Issue With Fidelity (3/25/2007 10:33:06 AM)
On second thought, I agree w/Katy about seeking a lawyer's advice before leaving without your child. I'd perhaps do as julietsierra suggested and sit him down and discuss the situation, and perhaps you can tell him you are planning on leaving on a certain date if he makes no changes, and taking your child with you. Maybe "scare" was the wrong word to use. I certainly believe the husband in question needs a definite wake-up call, here, though. Of course if you do that (say you are leaving by a certain date unless he makes noticeable changes), you have to be willing to follow through with it. But that deosn't mean he wouldn't ever change at some point in the future, even if he doesn't do it right then. IMO, he should be made aware there is some kind of time-line for making some changes, here, given that he is being lazy to begin with. As for someone's suggestion that it's possibly your fault, if you think it will help to contemplate whether this could be partly true, then it might not hurt. However, I can personally attest that a situation like this can indeed arise with no provocation from one partner whatsoever. And unless the person who made that comment has interviewed all of the married folk on the planet, I doubt he has any authority to comment on this matter, from the perspective of having ever been married, or being currently married. As for her "fucking around on her husband" - maybe this husband deserves it. Doesn't make it "legally or morally right" - it makes it human, IMO and understandable. Casting blame on her doesn't really help solve the problem though, does it? She is seeking practical advice, not a hammer over her head. Someone with no practical advice to offer might do better to refrain from commenting completely, IMO. - Susan

SweetAndInnocent -> RE: The Issue With Fidelity (3/25/2007 10:50:50 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SusanofO As for her "fucking around on her husband" - maybe this husband deserves it. Doesn't make it "legally or morally right" - it makes it human, IMO and understandable. Casting blame on her doesn't really help solve the problem though, does it? She is seeking practical advice, not a hammer over her head. Someone with no practical advice to offer might do better to refrain from commenting completely, IMO. - Susan If this wasn't a public forum, I might agree with that. Since it is though, everyone has the right to offer whatever opinions they may have. Disagreement doens't make them none practical. I for one personally totally agree that no man "deserves" to be fucked around on. I have no problem assigning "blame" to someone for cheating. You fix it, you find an arrangement that works, you leave, or you suck it up and accept it for what it is, but you don't cheat.

SusanofO -> RE: The Issue With Fidelity (3/25/2007 11:02:01 AM)
I am just saying that people bitching at someone usually isn't very helpful. IMO frequently see people who have zero authority to comment on an OP's situation (as far as ever having been close to being in a similar one, or even being married, for example) post bitchy, unhelpful comments. Sure it's "legal" to do that. It's nice, IMO, if people have slightly higher standards for the comments they make. Especially if an OP's situation is dire, or is maybe even life-threatening to them. People with little experience in a situation might have helpful advice but, IMO, the more serious a situation is, then if they don't, then posting advice that might be viewed as definitely un-helpful might be better left unsaid. Just my own opinion. Some do, some don't. I have a personal theory on such comments, and it is that a few folks view this message board strictly as entertaiment, and rarely bother to phrase their comments in anything resembling diplomatic terms, regardless of who it might hurt. Thinking it helps an OP is pretty presumptious, IMO. So - if advice is likely not helping, and is maybe hurting someone - what does that make it, IMO? Bad advice. My hope is that the OP completely and ignores any likely unhelpful and nastily phrased commentary. If someone cannot even bother themselves to be polite, IMO they don't deserve to be taken seriously (and I am not referring to you. At all.) The OP has already made it very clear she hasn't cheated yet, and would indeed feel badly about herself if she did. - Susan

MrDiscipline44 -> RE: The Issue With Fidelity (3/25/2007 11:23:10 AM)
Maybe you should either reread what was written by me and not try to put things into it that wasn't there, susy, or you should find out what IME means before jumping. JMT.

SusanofO -> RE: The Issue With Fidelity (3/25/2007 11:33:15 AM)
Well I apologize if you were trying to be helpful, MrD (I really do). It was not a statement so much directed at you personally, it's just that I've seen so many threads like this turn into a rail against an OP, when the poor person is merely seeking advice to help in a difficult situation. I know you've seen this happen, too. I just was hoping it wouldn't veer off in that direction completely, because it sounds (to me) like she is really trying to do the right thing here. Sorry if it sounds like I jumped directly on you; it was honestly more a reaction to threads I've been reading where many people end up saying things, and others follow suit, and at the end of the thread the advice being given ends up sometimes looking as if it bears hardly any resemblance to the original OP's question. I apologize. - Susan

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: The Issue With Fidelity (3/25/2007 11:54:38 AM)
Susan yes you've made that point- in fact you had a recent multi page thread about that point. It's not going to change how people give advice and it's annoying and rude of YOU to keep harping on it on someone ELSE's actual thread. If you want to revive your own thread, feel free to do so.

SusanofO -> RE: The Issue With Fidelity (3/25/2007 11:57:13 AM)
People can and will say whatever pleases them. I have no doubt about it. I've had that proven to me many times over. I will continue to object to it if it's rude or really mean. If I have something to say on a thread on a topic with which I have personal experience and I believe my comments might be helpful, then yes, I wll continue to make them. If anyone had a problem with this, I am afraid there's simply not much I can do to help them with their angst about it. - Susan

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: The Issue With Fidelity (3/25/2007 12:00:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SusanofO People can and will say whatever pleases them. I have no doubt about it. I've had that proven to me many times over. I will continue to object to it if it's rude or really mean. If that annoys people, Oh Well. - Susan So you're saying you're ok with being rude because you're doing what you want to do, even though you say people shouldn't do that?

SusanofO -> RE: The Issue With Fidelity (3/25/2007 12:04:16 PM)
I am not trying to be rude. I am also refraining from further comment here.I believe a little self-control in these matters can go a long way. - Susan

MistressMoirae -> RE: The Issue With Fidelity (3/25/2007 12:16:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MrDiscipline44 I wonder, was there anything you stopped doing when you married him? IME, nine times out of ten the woman stopped doing the things that landed her a husband after landing him, not realizing that in do so, you stopped attracting the man laying next to you. By the time they realize it, two, four eight years later, it's most often too late to regain his interests. This also tends to happen after she has given birth. I guess it really doesn't matter because what you're really wanting is for someone to give you the go ahead to fuck around on your husband. I find it odd you would mention, it would be her, that caused his disinterest. If you carefully read her plea, she mentions he had not been in the lifestyle before meeting her. He "claimed" he had interests he had never acted upon. Then 1 MONTH after getting married it ceased. As clearly put by Focus50, another man, her husband "played" her. She is a beautiful woman, he wanted her, and did what he had to to "posess" her. Once she was made "his", he lost interest like a child with a new toy. Not only that, but the only sex is 5 minutes of missionary vanilla??? Sounds like he knows he is lacking in that department. I have no problem saying that some women are the cause of men losing interest, but I believe it is a 50/50. Now to the question at hand, Blissful, I do not condone cheating. However, I believe in cuckolding, and your situation may be perfect for that. If you do not know about it, I would be happy to explain. Of course, the decision is yours alone to make. Communication is key. Write a letter to him if you can not say everything on your mind. Good luck to you.

defiantbadgirl -> RE: The Issue With Fidelity (3/25/2007 1:04:28 PM)
[/quote] I'm not a big advocate of scare tactics. Generally, they backfire. juliet [/quote] Not in all cases. With some men, a woman can try to talk to him about a situation multiple times and it does no good. He might not think beyond "she's just bitching" or "whining" and block out whatever she says. With this type of man, action may be the only thing that will get his attention. In regards to the unmentionable, unless there is court established custody, she could not be charged with kidnapping *unless she left the state.*. My advice to the OP is to try talking to her husband first. (I don't know how old the unmentionable is. She could have gotten pregnant before or right after the marriage. It could be a simple matter of him not wanting to endanger her pregnancy and worry over the child's environment after the birth. It could be any number of things). If the situation can't be resolved through discussion, I would advise a separation. DO NOT TAKE THE CHILD TO ANOTHER STATE or you can be prosecuted for kidnapping. Cheating is never a good idea and might affect the custody issue if there is a divorce. But some kind of action needs to be taken by the OP because she is miserable with the situation the way it is now.

dommalemn -> RE: The Issue With Fidelity (3/25/2007 3:05:50 PM)
You could say that I have been there in the reverse. My ex went down the cheating path. .She cheated on the 16 of the month and by the first of the following month she moved out feeling very guilty. From there things went down hill very fast. She left the rugrats. I ended up getting the rugrats and most everything else (mostly because of guilt over what she had done). We had a lack of communication. She had the “you know what I am thinking syndrome”. I tried all I could to keep the communication going but she thought that I was trying to hard and it shouldn’t have to be that hard. After a year, she said that she would like to make things work but she doesn’t want to hurt her boyfriend. And the little games that she thought were so fun when it all started are not all that fun any more. Now she is caught in a life without her kids. She now has thoughts of will he pick up others at his work( like he did her). Is it worth giving up seeing the kids when they go to bed and when they wake. And they both are insecure about the other being around the opposite sex. They both had no respect for the marriage (he was the one that thought it ok to brake a marriage and her it break the oath that she had made), and now they can’t trust the other. Then there are there are the effects on the rugrats. Just one to get you thinking, over 70% of the child sexual assaults are by men that there mother’s boyfriend or subsequent husband. There are also self-esteem problems and issues of abandonment. There is just some random thoughts to ponder, The choices that we make effect the Rugrats and our spouses alike. When it is all said and done you have to look yourself in the eye and say this is how I will tell it to my rugrats when they ask. And they have a way of asking at some point. dommalemn

KnightofMists -> RE: The Issue With Fidelity (3/25/2007 3:38:56 PM)
Blissful you are caught between two aspects that seem to go again each other. One is your Commitment and Integrity. You made a commitment to your husband... as the saying goes for better or worse... etc etc. the Other is your Desires and Needs. We all have these to some degree or another. If they are not met to some level... well alot of stress is sure to ensure. To me the problem is rather simple.... Beside making a commitment to you... did he not make a commitment to you? So the question is... did he fail to live up to the commitment? We are not just talking about kinky sex either... we talking about commitment to the relationship as a whole. Secondly, is your integrity. How important is this quality for you. Even if you can rationalize that the commitment has been failed by your husband... it's a quesiton of what that allows from you. Are you ok with keeping the illusion of a marriage and cheat on him? or does your integrity matter alittle more than that? No can tell you what is best.... but me thinks honest is better .. even if it's not easier. However, many take the easy road... if you can look in the mirror afterwards... so be it.

AquaticSub -> RE: The Issue With Fidelity (3/25/2007 5:03:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: dommalemn You could say that I have been there in the reverse. My ex went down the cheating path. .She cheated on the 16 of the month and by the first of the following month she moved out feeling very guilty. From there things went down hill very fast. She left the rugrats. I ended up getting the rugrats and most everything else (mostly because of guilt over what she had done). We had a lack of communication. She had the “you know what I am thinking syndrome”. I tried all I could to keep the communication going but she thought that I was trying to hard and it shouldn’t have to be that hard. After a year, she said that she would like to make things work but she doesn’t want to hurt her boyfriend. And the little games that she thought were so fun when it all started are not all that fun any more. Now she is caught in a life without her kids. She now has thoughts of will he pick up others at his work( like he did her). Is it worth giving up seeing the kids when they go to bed and when they wake. And they both are insecure about the other being around the opposite sex. They both had no respect for the marriage (he was the one that thought it ok to brake a marriage and her it break the oath that she had made), and now they can’t trust the other. Then there are there are the effects on the rugrats. Just one to get you thinking, over 70% of the child sexual assaults are by men that there mother’s boyfriend or subsequent husband. There are also self-esteem problems and issues of abandonment. There is just some random thoughts to ponder, The choices that we make effect the Rugrats and our spouses alike. When it is all said and done you have to look yourself in the eye and say this is how I will tell it to my rugrats when they ask. And they have a way of asking at some point. dommalemn Excellent points... I would just like to throw in that, as the child of a cheating parent, all of a sudden any lessons you try to teach us about honesty just seem... very pointless. From the point of view of a child, or at least of a teenager, why the hell should I be honest with you about what I'm doing (drugs/sex/drinking) when you can't even be honest with your spouse?

Sinergy -> RE: The Issue With Fidelity (3/25/2007 5:39:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FunLuvinNJf Well, I have been where you are now.. and all I can say is really think about what you are doing. If you can go into infidelity accepting that you may lose your husband and unmentionable, --- and I mean you must really be willing to accept their loss ---- if you can do this, than go for it. If you can't deal with a breakup... then by all means don't do it. Try to get husband into counseling, introduce mild bdsm during your intimate moments. You have to be willing to face the worse or it will be a mistake. And, if you do it and he finds out and agrees to stay, you have to be willing to hear snide comments (esp during arguments) on and off for the rest of the marriage... Good Luck and really think about what you want.. I tried the poly relationship. My ex, who initiated it, was the one who was not emotionally mature enough to deal with it. If you decide to go the infidelity route, realize it will change the structure of your relationship with your husband and UM regardless of how well you are able to hide it. More importantly, it will change it in ways that are not really predictable up front. It is a risk. Weigh the factors. My approach is to end relationship A, grieve it for a while (usually months), before starting relationship B. I do this largely because I dont want to bring the detritus from relationship A into relationship B. Good luck! Sinergy

Bearlee -> RE: The Issue With Fidelity (3/25/2007 5:53:59 PM)
I agree with Sinergy on this...it's always more than a little awkward to change horses in the middle of the stream! Besides...if you cheat on your husband with the new guy; and then you and the new guy feel you have a chance with a good future; would you? WHO would trust somebody who they met cheating on someone else? Makes no sense to me. Yup, I'd get it figured out first...THEN look into discovering what Z might have to offer. JMO, b

julietsierra -> RE: The Issue With Fidelity (3/25/2007 11:38:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bearlee I agree with Sinergy on this...it's always more than a little awkward to change horses in the middle of the stream! Besides...if you cheat on your husband with the new guy; and then you and the new guy feel you have a chance with a good future; would you? WHO would trust somebody who they met cheating on someone else? Makes no sense to me. Yup, I'd get it figured out first...THEN look into discovering what Z might have to offer. JMO, b Yup... and here's another thing to think about: If your issue is that your sexual life has gone down the tubes and you are wanting him to hear you when you talk about this aspect of your relationship, cheating only muddies the water. Should you decide that Z is worth the risk, if and when he finds out about what you've been doing, the argument will no longer be about what he's not doing, but about what you've done. Cheating to resolve another problem only complicates the original problem and where there was once one issue, there is now a myriad of other issues that have to be dealt with. It can wind up being a real mess. juliet

Smileyking1 -> RE: The Issue With Fidelity (3/25/2007 11:46:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BlissfulBunny I need advice. I can't promise I will follow it, or do the right thing or even the smart thing, but I will listen and value it. Here is my query... I am married with one young unmentionable. I have been in the lifestyle for some time, but my husband had not been in it before me. When my husband and I met I made my needs as a submissive very clear to him and he seemed happy to oblige. He swore up and down that he was interested and had just never acted on it. Within a month after we married all activities relating to BDSM had ground to a halt. Now, several years later, there is still nothing. Nada. Zilch. The only sexual activity that occurs is a five minute bout of the most vanilla, missionary sex you could imagine, and that only happens once every two weeks. It may sound full of myself, but I'm a very, very attractive woman and can't figure out what's going on. I've told him how much this bothers me and he doesn't care. He led me to believe that BDSM would be an ongoing part of our life when he had no real genuine interest in it. He snagged me, and as soon as he had me he quit the thing that won me. Bad though all that is, it's not the real conundrum. I've never had a problem with fidelity. No one ever struck my fancy enough to do any real damage. The infatuation would always pass in a day or two. But there is one man who fires me up in a way that is irresistable. He's a friend of a friend, and we'll call him "Z" for the sake of ease. I've had a deep lust for Z for a while now, and I harbor some other feelings for him that scare me terribly. I'd thought that he might reciprocate those feelings, but was never sure. Things came to head last night when I went out with a few friends. I wasn't expecting Z to be there, as I see him irregularly, but he was there and I ended up talking to him and another friend (his roommate) about the problems I was having with my husband. After Z left the table my other friend confessed to me that Z was crazy about me and would push the issue if he got a chance. And it also came up that Z is a dominant and very, very interested in me in that capacity as well. That threw a wrench in the works. I could contain my feelings when I thought they weren't returned, but it's so much harder now. There is so much heat between he and I that it's nearly uncontrollable. If looks could screw I'd have been thrown down on the table and fucked senseless. And what scares me is that I'd love every damned minute of it. On one hand, it seems unfair to me to lead a joyless existence needlessly, and on the other I've never been the cheating type. I never want to be a homewrecker, and having a little unmentionable makes things sticky. But it's getting more and more difficult to say no. I don't think I'm strong enough to hold out too much longer, and I can't avoid Z forever. I really, really want to say yes, and I have no idea what the right thing to do is in this situation. I need advice. I'm so confused. What I can genuinely tell you is that all actions carry with them a price. There is no way such an issue can be dealt with in the abscense of pain...if your husband really loves you then you should be able to talk to him about this and work out a solution together....if not and if he can't wrap the idea around his head...well then I leave you to the obvious conclusion...but remember no matter what you do you must be willing to deal with the consequences

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