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RE: Doormats - 3/26/2007 11:51:11 AM   
WhiplashSmile


Posts: 1472
Joined: 6/8/2004
Status: offline 		I personally would not want somebody to be submissive to the whole wide world other then me.  If they did, they would be punished for their submission to others besides me.  If they did not get it, relationship is over with.

What's the friggen point to being with a submissive if she's going to submit herself to the whole damn neighborhood or anybody else?   I kicked one out the door for this Bullshit before.  I refuse to have a doormat in my life.

I value submission as a gift, how much of a gift is it, when they submit to others? 

Doormats tend not to be loyal or trustworthy from my personal experience!!
Not worth a damn in my book!  I don't want somebody screwing anybody
and giving me HIV or making our D/s relationship into a mockery.




< Message edited by WhiplashSmile -- 3/26/2007 11:52:04 AM >

(in reply to MagiksSlave)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Doormats - 3/26/2007 11:53:30 AM   
MagiksSlave


Posts: 2768
Joined: 9/11/2006
Status: offline 		Some rather interesting thoughts... some things i didnt think of and some things I dont agree with and some that I do.. I find it so interesting all the different thoughts in the community and I think its great we can share them.

Magik's slave

_____________________________

If you’re going through hell keep on moving
don't slow down
if you’re scared dont show it
you might get out
before the devil even knows your there.


-Rodney Atkins-



(in reply to missturbation)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Doormats - 3/26/2007 11:54:50 AM   
houseslave


Posts: 65
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		i dont know why everyone is so down on doormats...i always felt that was what i wanted to be...even just the world excited me

(in reply to missturbation)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Doormats - 3/26/2007 11:55:50 AM   
jauntyone


Posts: 543
Joined: 2/27/2007
From: Anchorage Alaska
Status: offline 		Greetings one and all , this is not directed at anyone in particular
 
I think that issues arise when one tries to use an overall generalized definition of what 'doormat' means. I can take my own definition, look at 10 different submissives or slaves here on collarme, and say to myself 'they are all doormats'. The person next to me, using their own definition, can look at the same 10 and say only two are doormats. And so on it goes.
 
Personally, I don't see what the issue is with OTHER people trying to determine if one is a doormat or not. If it does not effect you and your own relationship, why would you care if another is considered a doormat? There are some on here who I look at and think to myself " ooh my gosh, how can they do that, or how can they be so extreme'. Instead of judging, I pay attention to these people in the hopes that one, I may learn something new.
 
It all comes down to how we, as individuals, choose to accept something in another person.
 
Just some food for thought
 
I wish you well
 
melissa

(in reply to missturbation)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Doormats - 3/26/2007 11:55:56 AM   
WhiplashSmile


Posts: 1472
Joined: 6/8/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jauntyone

Greetings
 
a nice post; but I would pose this question. What about the ones who are submissive to all that they meet and not because their owner tells them to be?. Does that then make them doormats?
 
Just curious
 
I wish you well
 
melissa


Yes a doormat!  It shows a complete lack of respect for the D/s relationship.
Undermines the Dom/me role and function, plus it demonstrates fickle unloyal
behavior.  If this behavior can not be corrected, then boot ass out to door.
It's like owning a dog that will run off and disappear for days on end, what's
the point?  Like a Dog that does not bother to protect the Masters Property
and is not loyal to the owner. 



(in reply to jauntyone)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Doormats - 3/26/2007 11:58:51 AM   
jauntyone


Posts: 543
Joined: 2/27/2007
From: Anchorage Alaska
Status: offline
quote:

Yes a doormat!  It shows a complete lack of respect for the D/s relationship.
Undermines the Dom/me role and function, plus it demonstrates fickle unloyal
behavior.  If this behavior can not be corrected, then boot ass out to door.
It's like owning a dog that will run off and disappear for days on end, what's
the point?  Like a Dog that does not bother to protect the Masters Property
and is not loyal to the owner. 

Greetings
 
very interesting. However, since we are so far apart in the ideas of how a relationship works, I will refrain from arguing my point with you.
 
I wish you well
 
melissa

(in reply to WhiplashSmile)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Doormats - 3/26/2007 11:58:53 AM   
missturbation


Posts: 8290
Joined: 2/12/2006
From: another planet
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MagiksSlave

Some rather interesting thoughts... some things i didnt think of and some things I dont agree with and some that I do.. I find it so interesting all the different thoughts in the community and I think its great we can share them.

Magik's slave


Very true

_____________________________

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If it fit's in a toaster, i can cook it.

Buying 10 item's or less is not shopping !!

(in reply to MagiksSlave)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Doormats - 3/26/2007 12:00:58 PM   
sweetnurseBBW


Posts: 2464
Joined: 1/26/2006
From: North Carolina
Status: offline 		I know a few slaves that like to live as a doormat. It isn't a bad thing , if thats what you want. I think there is a huge difference between a "doormat" type submissive and a person who is an emotional mess. It may not work for me but whatever makes you happy.

_____________________________

Sir Pain's pain slut

(in reply to MagiksSlave)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Doormats - 3/26/2007 12:01:11 PM   
tricia


Posts: 231
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		I didn't quite mean i was 'submitting' to everyone in the neighborhood.  Especially in a sexual sense.  What i meant is i don't need to be a dominant, powerful force in my world to consider myself  'healthy.'  I choose my battles carefully. I'm very capable of giving you my brightest and biggest smile while thinking what a moron you are.

Edited to add - i think it's a ridiculous notion that a submissive person has to be a ruler in her world outside of her relationship to better prove you are her only dominant.  I think our definition of submission must be extremely different.

< Message edited by tricia -- 3/26/2007 12:04:26 PM >

(in reply to WhiplashSmile)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Doormats - 3/26/2007 12:01:45 PM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: daddysprop247

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub


I don't think there is anything wrong with a dominant wanting a doormat sub. However, there is a problem with a dominant expecting every submissive to be a doormat to him, regardless of if he owns her or not.


i would agree with this, tho the same could be said of anyone who sets universal expectations on others.

as for the idea that being a doormat is unhealthy, this is true for many. however i would add that even in the cases where this is true, if this is one's nature, who they are at the core, what on earth is wrong with them accepting this and possibly learning how to manage it so that less damage is done? the right Dominant will know how to properly take care of a "doormat" submissive, seeing that she is protected and guided, without eradicating her true nature.




The problem is that I don't think most people do manage it so that less damage is done. I was a doormat because I didn't think I was worth anything and I didn't think anyone would like me unless they walked all over me. Which just isn't true. I'm not longer a doormat - I'm still considerate to a fault sometimes - but I'm not a doormat. And I have the most loving relationship and the best friends that I've ever had. While you may be happy as a doormat, I don't think it's for most people. I think most people are happier being valued by their friends and loved ones as a person. Not just access to a car, a nice stero, a Playstation or whatever material good or sexual favor they provide.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to daddysprop247)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Doormats - 3/26/2007 12:07:29 PM   
WhiplashSmile


Posts: 1472
Joined: 6/8/2004
Status: offline
quote:

Greetings
 
very interesting. However, since we are so far apart in the ideas of how a relationship works, I will refrain from arguing my point with you.
 
I wish you well
 
melissa

Oh heck melissa, you can hit me with it.  There are other perspectives to this, beside what I blurted out about here.  I was just ranting about the first thing that came to my mind.  I'm not that big of a hard ass you know.. ;^)

We might not be that far apart in views to how a relationship should work
either.  We have not even talked about that on this thread. 

It's always great and nice to hear perspectives and thoughts, no matter how
much we may or may not like 'em or want to hear 'em at times.  It makes
everybody stop and think.

Please fire away...

< Message edited by WhiplashSmile -- 3/26/2007 12:08:35 PM >

(in reply to jauntyone)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Doormats - 3/26/2007 12:08:10 PM   
WilliamWizer


Posts: 223
Joined: 3/19/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MagiksSlave

I dont really agree with you there Missturbation.. beeing a doormat is letting people walk all over you thus the term "doormat" to me and in my experiance this is unhealthy.

Magik's slave


have you ever hear about the term "kajira" or read any of the Gor books? a kajira obeys any free (man or woman) that orders her anything unless of course her own master says otherwise.
while it may not the same as being a doormat your comment can be applied to both. are you saying then that all kajirae aren't healthy? hope not.

(in reply to MagiksSlave)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Doormats - 3/26/2007 12:08:25 PM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jauntyone

Greetings
 
a nice post; but I would pose this question. What about the ones who are submissive to all that they meet and not because their owner tells them to be?. Does that then make them doormats?
 
Just curious
 
I wish you well
 
melissa


I don't know that I would call them "doormats" as I am not seeing their behavior at all times. 
There is a difference in being submissive to people and fulfilling honest requests for service and fulfilling silly requests for service/favors/whatever from others simply because they know you are the only one who will do so whereas others will look at them and ask quite fairly "And why can't you do this?".  As you noted, it all depends on your definition of doormat...mine is someone taken advantage of because they let themselves.  In my mind, that is not submission, no matter how much someone has convinced themselves or another that it is.  As stated, that is MOO.

Submissive to everyone.  I agree with Whiplash to an extent.  Part of the reason I want the type of submissive I want is that her submission would be to me.  She would choose to submit to me because of what she feels towards me because of the unique qualities that make me Creative Dominant, not just because I am a dominant.  I would prefer to discuss with her the topic of what people she would choose to display submission of any sort to and whether or not I was O.K. with that.  As her dominant, would I not have that right?  She can be courteous and polite and mannerly without being submissive. 

After all, if she has chosen to yield the power to control her to me, then couldn't it be considered that yielding that power...even innocent parts of it... to others without discussion and permission granted a form of contradictory denial of her own choice?

(in reply to jauntyone)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Doormats - 3/26/2007 12:14:51 PM   
WhiplashSmile


Posts: 1472
Joined: 6/8/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jauntyone

I think that issues arise when one tries to use an overall generalized definition of what 'doormat' means. I can take my own definition, look at 10 different submissives or slaves here on collarme, and say to myself 'they are all doormats'. The person next to me, using their own definition, can look at the same 10 and say only two are doormats. And so on it goes.
 
Personally, I don't see what the issue is with OTHER people trying to determine if one is a doormat or not. If it does not effect you and your own relationship, why would you care if another is considered a doormat? There are some on here who I look at and think to myself " ooh my gosh, how can they do that, or how can they be so extreme'. Instead of judging, I pay attention to these people in the hopes that one, I may learn something new.
 
It all comes down to how we, as individuals, choose to accept something in another person.
 
Just some food for thought
 
I wish you well
 
melissa


Great point to be made here.  The personal view about what is or is a not a doormat.

Example: Control over what a sub/slave wears 24/7

Some Dom/mes or subs that don't want this control may view sub/slaves that do as doormats.

This is why two people looking the same set of sub/slaves will see things a bit different.


(in reply to jauntyone)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Doormats - 3/26/2007 12:15:34 PM   
daddysprop247


Posts: 1712
Joined: 6/24/2005
From: DC Metro area
Status: offline 		WhiplashSmile, clearly you've had some bad experiences with doormat type submissives. however that does not make such submissives universally untrustworthy, unloyal, or worthless. it simply means that they are not for you. but there are some Dominants out there who find a special beauty and unique value in a doormat type of submissive, and they know how to deal with the special challenges presented when possessing such a submissive. and actually what most people consider to be doormat, my Master would label as "naturally submissive," and that's a quality he finds very desireable in a mate.

however it still took quite a bit of time (a couple of years at least) for my Master to fully develop a style and system for our relationship that took my "doormat" nature into account. He knew that if he took me out and left me alone for any period of time, anything could happen to me because i wouldn't say no or fight anyone who tried to touch me, hurt me, or even take me away. this was not me being unfaithful or disloyal, this was just me having a natural instinct to submit, whether i wished to or not, whether it was the right thing to do or not. He adores this vulnerability about me, and wouldn't want to change it for the world. at the same time he knows that he has to be especially vigilant in protecting me, watching over me, and in restricting my contact with others. so, i don't leave the house without him. i don't answer the door or the phone when he is not home. i no longer work outside the home. if we're out someplace and it's a night where he just wants me all to himself, he'll take me with him when he needs to go to the bar, or even to the bathroom. to a different sort of Dominant this would be a pain, but my Master relishes it and wouldn't have it any other way. to him, this "doormat" is invaluable. :)

(in reply to missturbation)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Doormats - 3/26/2007 12:31:07 PM   
onestandingstill


Posts: 1335
Joined: 8/3/2006
Status: offline 		I think over half of the Doms who claim they don't want a doormat treat their subs just like a doormat.
I think most of the people who allow people to treat them as a doormat have self esteem issues or are blindly in love and maryter themselves for their partner as they can't see life without the other person.
I think the big difference between a doormat and a sub/slave is a sub/slave submits by choice, her Dom/Master appreciates and values this person for their submission or choice to be this person slave.
Most good Master's/Doms take care and consideration in choosing the requests made of their property.
A Dom/Master who treats their sub/slave as a doormat does not have the best interest or wellbeing of the sub/slave in mind at the point of an order, they just focus on their own desires & not what's best for the sub/slave.
Any way you look at it doormat is a negative phrase and situation in my mind.
suzanne

< Message edited by onestandingstill -- 3/26/2007 12:38:31 PM >

(in reply to MagiksSlave)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Doormats - 3/26/2007 12:34:12 PM   
KatyLied


Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline
quote:

a kajira obeys any free (man or woman) that orders her anything unless of course her own master says otherwise.
while it may not the same as being a doormat your comment can be applied to both. are you saying then that all kajirae aren't healthy? hope not.


Maybe they are healthy, just not choosy about whom they submit to.  I don't get it, but if it works for them...


_____________________________

“If you want to live a happy life, tie it to a goal, not to people or things.”
- Albert Einstein

(in reply to WilliamWizer)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Doormats - 3/26/2007 12:34:46 PM   
jauntyone


Posts: 543
Joined: 2/27/2007
From: Anchorage Alaska
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: WhiplashSmile

quote:

Greetings
 
very interesting. However, since we are so far apart in the ideas of how a relationship works, I will refrain from arguing my point with you.
 
I wish you well
 
melissa

Oh heck melissa, you can hit me with it.  There are other perspectives to this, beside what I blurted out about here.  I was just ranting about the first thing that came to my mind.  I'm not that big of a hard ass you know.. ;^)

We might not be that far apart in views to how a relationship should work
either.  We have not even talked about that on this thread. 

It's always great and nice to hear perspectives and thoughts, no matter how
much we may or may not like 'em or want to hear 'em at times.  It makes
everybody stop and think.

Please fire away...

Greetings
 
I grew up knowing that my rightful place was 'behind the men' so to speak. I was taught that women deferred to men in all things. It is something that I am comfortable with and have no desire to change. It is what has shaped my personality. Yes, I defer in all things to those who I see as superior to myself. I do it without thought. Whats more, it is a behavior that I have no desire to change. I am submissive to all, at all times, in all ways. However, this does not mean that I am walked on, taken advantage of, used, abused, ignored, etc etc. It simply means that for myself, I know my place, and it is not out in front gathering attention. If this makes me a doormat, then all I can say is that I make one heck of a doormat; and I proudly display it for all to see.
 
Master enjoys this personality trait of mine. It is not something that he said 'you will be this way and this way always'; I was this way when he met me, and from all accounts, he is quite happy with me this way.
 
So yes, I am submissive to all; in every way, 24/7/365. Not because Master says I must be; but because it is within my nature to be so.
 
I wish you well
 
melissa

< Message edited by jauntyone -- 3/26/2007 12:36:04 PM >

(in reply to WhiplashSmile)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Doormats - 3/26/2007 12:39:45 PM   
MagiksSlave


Posts: 2768
Joined: 9/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: WilliamWizer

quote:

ORIGINAL: MagiksSlave

I dont really agree with you there Missturbation.. beeing a doormat is letting people walk all over you thus the term "doormat" to me and in my experiance this is unhealthy.

Magik's slave


have you ever hear about the term "kajira" or read any of the Gor books? a kajira obeys any free (man or woman) that orders her anything unless of course her own master says otherwise.
while it may not the same as being a doormat your comment can be applied to both. are you saying then that all kajirae aren't healthy? hope not.



Please dont even get me started on Gor!!!


Magik's save

_____________________________

If you’re going through hell keep on moving
don't slow down
if you’re scared dont show it
you might get out
before the devil even knows your there.


-Rodney Atkins-



(in reply to WilliamWizer)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Doormats - 3/26/2007 12:40:11 PM   
Viridana


Posts: 754
Status: offline 		The interpretation that I put into the doormat concept is that a submissive chooses who he/she is submissive to, that could be one or more people but it's still something that is counciously done.  A submissive can, if the situation rises, put their foot down and show dominant behaviour.  A doormat to me is someone who couldn't put their foot down even if they deep down wanted. They lack the mental power, self esteem or confidence to do so and thus can be horribly taken advantage of.  

(in reply to onestandingstill)
Profile   Post #: 40
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