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RE: Unwilling Witness (For Stephann) - 3/27/2007 1:12:12 PM   
MrDiscipline44


Posts: 1776
Joined: 1/5/2005
Status: offline 		And can you not truely see that the point one tries to make can actually be lost because of the way they make it. I never said that my way is THE best way or the one true way. Those little thoughts were applied to it from others, not I, my dear. Nor did I say I would jump into the middle of the hypothetical situation that was presented. But people seem to be more blind with being right then with what is actually written.

_____________________________

If you love somebody, you have to be willing to break them.

Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach.

Have you slapped your slave today?

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Profile   Post #: 101
RE: Unwilling Witness (For Stephann) - 3/27/2007 1:16:57 PM   
missturbation


Posts: 8290
Joined: 2/12/2006
From: another planet
Status: offline 		 And can you not truely see that the point one tries to make can actually be lost because of the way they make it.
It would be very difficult to lose your point.
I never said that my way is THE best way or the one true way.
By refusing to accept there may be a better way you have done exactly that.
Those little thoughts were applied to it from others, not I, my dear.
No i saw flexibility in others thinking but not yours.
Nor did I say I would jump into the middle of the hypothetical situation that was presented.
You did actually and defended your right to no matter what the consequences. You also stated you may speak to the dom afterwards, in the pub etc which to me is after the fact and more nosey and out of order.
But people seem to be more blind with being right then with what is actually written.
Hmm you arent blinded by what is right you are blinded by your inablility to see you might just be wrong.

< Message edited by missturbation -- 3/27/2007 1:27:52 PM >

_____________________________

What you don't witness with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. Proverb.

If it fit's in a toaster, i can cook it.

Buying 10 item's or less is not shopping !!

(in reply to MrDiscipline44)
Profile   Post #: 102
RE: Unwilling Witness (For Stephann) - 3/27/2007 1:34:09 PM   
MrDiscipline44


Posts: 1776
Joined: 1/5/2005
Status: offline 		Hmmm, do you think your opinion maybe wrong?

Actually, let me re-phrase that. Do you think that you maybe wrong in your opinion?

< Message edited by MrDiscipline44 -- 3/27/2007 1:35:51 PM >

_____________________________

If you love somebody, you have to be willing to break them.

Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach.

Have you slapped your slave today?

(in reply to missturbation)
Profile   Post #: 103
RE: Unwilling Witness (For Stephann) - 3/27/2007 1:35:25 PM   
Argentopal


Posts: 379
Joined: 12/12/2005
From: Central Texas / Hill Country
Status: offline 		I admit to having skimmed thru the responses here and not read every single one, so if I repeat what has been siad before, excuse me.

We often host "scene get togethers".  Some are a group "private" munch. Some are large parties, some are dinners, etc,. etc.  As the host it is sometimes a different thing from just being an unwilling observer.  At a big munch or large play party i would try to ignore it and gossip about it later(!).  In my home in a group established to support the Ds dynamic in 24 7 relationships we have had it happen.  We knew all parties intimately and knew the girl just loved being bratty and it was almost a dare to anyone to do anything about it.  The first few times we tried to all "look the other way", but he constant whinning and general bad behavior (think very spoiled bratty undisciplined child) got on everyone's nerves and threatened the balance of good feelings in the group.  Knowing that the Dom would not "take kindly" to anyone suggesting to him, no matter how politely and in private, that his girl was upsetting others in the group I decided that as hostess and older "mommy" type I would handle it.  The next time it happened was at a very special event in our home with a lot of guests present and she made certain she was the center of attention as she brazenly and open defied her owner and looked him right in the eye with that "I dare you to do anything" look as she disobeyed him.  I simply went to her and very quietly asked her to come with me.  yeah the room got kinda quiet.  I took her aside and in private told her I liked her and wanted her to continue to be a guest in my home.  Then I also told her that this was a special event in my home and everyone was very focused on good behaviors.  I asked her if she had really seen the look on "her daddy's face" as she defied him in front of his friends.  I assured her that if he liked her behavior that way at home it was none of our business but that the look on his face was plainly one of chagrin and that I knew it was not her intention to make him look foolish.  I suggested two things: 1) that her continued openly rude behavior wold mean she was going to no longer be included in the groups gatherings because of how uncomfortable it made everyone. Once in a while we would never mention, but it was all the time. and 2) that going and apologizing sincerely to her Daddy and to other in the room would go a long way toward positive growth in her relationship as well as in the community.I told her she did not have to apologize and should not do it if she did not mean it, and asked her if she ever really gave any thought to how it looked to the rest of us.  I told her to remain in the room a few minutes and to come back and do what ever she felt was right.  She did come and apologize saying merely that she had not intended to cause her Daddy or anyone else to ne embarassed.  That was OK if she was not sorry for her actual behavior that was the correct apoplgy to make.  They continue to have a rather rocky relationship, but I guess it works for them.  The facts that made me step in were 1) i was hostess 2) we knew this was repeated behavior and not some probelm 3) she did it to the point of rudeness, it was not sassy or cute in any way.

Someone elses home would I speak up? never  A one time thing in someone I knew to be obdient wold I speak up? never  Someone I did not know would I speak up? never

just my 2 cents
MsOpal


_____________________________

He held out His hand and said "Step into the abyss with me."

... and i did.


~Surrender without Fear~
~Power without Guilt~
~Love without Doubt~

(in reply to MrDiscipline44)
Profile   Post #: 104
RE: Unwilling Witness (For Stephann) - 3/27/2007 1:39:31 PM   
missturbation


Posts: 8290
Joined: 2/12/2006
From: another planet
Status: offline 		Hmmm, do you think your opinion maybe wrong?
It may well be but i don't refuse to accept that there are other ways of dealing with the situation the op mentioned.
Unlike the narrow minded 'i would say something to the dom' i accept that that may be the answer sometimes but its not the only option available.
Every situation is different and after 16 years in a trade that deals with disturbances every day i think im pretty qualified to understand and realise that there is not just one solution to a problem like this.
Now when you stop being narrow minded and thinking yours is the only way that would be right, then we can talk. Other than that i havent got time to debate with someone who thinks they are right and others are wrong 100%.

_____________________________

What you don't witness with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. Proverb.

If it fit's in a toaster, i can cook it.

Buying 10 item's or less is not shopping !!

(in reply to MrDiscipline44)
Profile   Post #: 105
RE: Unwilling Witness (For Stephann) - 3/27/2007 1:47:44 PM   
Stephann


Posts: 4214
Joined: 12/27/2006
From: Portland, OR
Status: offline 		It would seem the bit about 'misdirection' wasn't completely solved.

Once the guy is irritated at me talking banalities about his watch, my long lost grandfather, and the price of cheese in Chile, he might be of a mind to turn around, and continue acting like a pig.

That's when I make sure a beer bottle is handy, tap him on the shoulder, and ask if he'd hold my coat a moment.  Then I turn to her, and ask if she'd like to dance. 

Ahhhh I miss my days back in the Marines.

Seriously, some people just don't get it.  It's about as pointless to try to argue with some folks in real life as... well... arguing in a message board ; )

Stephan

PS: LeeAnn, I haven't had licorice in three years, so you can have my chocolate and I'll take the Twizzlers.


_____________________________

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"The blade itself incites to violence" - Homer

Men: Find a Woman here

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Profile   Post #: 106
RE: Unwilling Witness (For Stephann) - 3/27/2007 1:49:35 PM   
IrishMist


Posts: 7480
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline 		I would walk away. It's none of my business how they want to treat each other, and it's not my place to say whether its right or wrong.

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Profile   Post #: 107
RE: Unwilling Witness (For Stephann) - 3/27/2007 1:52:26 PM   
WhiplashSmile


Posts: 1472
Joined: 6/8/2004
Status: offline 		I would keep my nose out of it.  I don't like to get sucked
into drama games other people play.  This way the sub or Dom/me
has no complaints against you.  Not my sub/slave not my business
unless it's life threatening.   

(in reply to Passion357)
Profile   Post #: 108
RE: Unwilling Witness (For Stephann) - 3/27/2007 1:53:12 PM   
LuvnHome4FemSub


Posts: 12
Joined: 1/17/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Passion357


How would one handle a situation of a slave or submissive repeatedly challenging the authority of his/her Owner in a group setting with other M/s couples around?
 I understand that the Owner of said slave is the only one that should correct them, however as an unwilling observer of the action how would one handle the situation?


Well Wishes,
~Passion~



Hello,
If I were to be somewhere and saw this, I would use it as a learning tool. As I personally don't allow challenging my authority, I would point the action out to mine and let it be known to them that that behaviour is definitely not allowed with me. As for whoever the M/s were in that scenario, it would not be my place at all to interfere in what I was seeing. If it was mine doing the challenging, they would be punished right where we were...as long as it was strictly an M/s atmosphere.

_____________________________

"Walk a mile in my shoes - then just keep on going... I have more shoes!!"
"Cry yourself a river, build yourself a bridge... and get over it!!"

(in reply to Passion357)
Profile   Post #: 109
RE: Unwilling Witness (For Stephann) - 3/27/2007 1:55:18 PM   
MrDiscipline44


Posts: 1776
Joined: 1/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

It may well be but i don't refuse to accept that there are other ways of dealing with the situation the op mentioned.
Neither do I and I never refused the thought at all. Once again, you're seeing something that isn't there.
quote:

Unlike the narrow minded 'i would say something to the dom' i accept that that may be the answer sometimes but its not the only option available.
I never said it was the only option available. 
quote:

Every situation is different and after 16 years in a trade that deals with disturbances every day i think im pretty qualified to understand and realise that there is not just one solution to a problem like this.
Now when you stop being narrow minded and thinking yours is the only way that would be right, then we can talk. Other than that i havent got time to debate with someone who thinks they are right and others are wrong 100%.
Maybe you're the one being a little narrowminded. You're making broad assumptions about me not knowing who I am, what I do or my experiences in life. I presented one opinion and you seem to think it is the length and width of my world. I assure you my dear, it is not. LOL

_____________________________

If you love somebody, you have to be willing to break them.

Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach.

Have you slapped your slave today?

(in reply to missturbation)
Profile   Post #: 110
RE: Unwilling Witness (For Stephann) - 3/27/2007 2:01:12 PM   
missturbation


Posts: 8290
Joined: 2/12/2006
From: another planet
Status: offline 		Ok so in your opinion your opinion all the way through this thread may have been wrong?
Please do feel free to admit here and now that there are better ways to deal with the op's situation than yours.

_____________________________

What you don't witness with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. Proverb.

If it fit's in a toaster, i can cook it.

Buying 10 item's or less is not shopping !!

(in reply to MrDiscipline44)
Profile   Post #: 111
RE: Unwilling Witness (For Stephann) - 3/27/2007 2:03:47 PM   
Domin8tingUrDrmz


Posts: 1269
Joined: 4/8/2006
From: Portland Metro, Oregon
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Passion357

Greetings, All,

This question was posed to me a while back and I have *always* wanted to know what others think about it and what they would do or not do.

How would one handle a situation of a slave or submissive repeatedly challenging the authority of his/her Owner in a group setting with other M/s couples around?
 I understand that the Owner of said slave is the only one that should correct them, however as an unwilling observer of the action how would one handle the situation?

It's just a general question, no details needed. Like "What is she doing?" Well, it does not matter :-) She is challenging authority in a public M/s setting. That's bad enough.

You are the "unwilling observer". You may be a Master friend of the Master, a slave friend of the slave, or a complete stranger new to the scene.
That is why I think this is perfect for this forum. The responses will be *so* vast, and from every different outlook.

Thank you, Stephann. I should have done this long ago.

Well Wishes,
~Passion~



Challenging the authority of the Owner.  This could mean so many things.  It does not necessarily mean an argument between the two.  It could be the s-type is defiantly becoming drunk, flirting with other D-types without approval, trying to pick fights with other guests, or doing countless other things that challenge the authority of the Owner and create conflict or unease in a group setting. 

Depending upon the actual nature of the act would determine my level of reaction.  If it were being kept between the two of them I would certainly mind my business unless it became violent in which case I would speak to the host.  If the s-type was defying their Owner by involving me in any manner, I would certainly be more direct.  While I may not have the right to tell another how to handle their property; they nor their property have the right to involve me in their relationship without my consent.  So, if the s-type was flirting with me in a manner that was obviously defiant of their Owner, and was unwelcomed by me, I would certainly inform the s-type that sort of behavior was not welcomed by me.  If it continued, I would then speak to the Owner, and politely request that they refrain their sub/slave from disturbing me and anyone who was with me.

So really, there are so many different ways that this could be viewed, and my reaction to it would wholly be dependant upon what actually transpired.

(in reply to Passion357)
Profile   Post #: 112
RE: Unwilling Witness (For Stephann) - 3/27/2007 2:15:09 PM   
MrDiscipline44


Posts: 1776
Joined: 1/5/2005
Status: offline 		LOL, too cute.

_____________________________

If you love somebody, you have to be willing to break them.

Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach.

Have you slapped your slave today?

(in reply to missturbation)
Profile   Post #: 113
RE: Unwilling Witness (For Stephann) - 3/27/2007 2:20:30 PM   
missturbation


Posts: 8290
Joined: 2/12/2006
From: another planet
Status: offline 		Why thank you.
We finally agree on something

_____________________________

What you don't witness with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. Proverb.

If it fit's in a toaster, i can cook it.

Buying 10 item's or less is not shopping !!

(in reply to MrDiscipline44)
Profile   Post #: 114
RE: Unwilling Witness (For Stephann) - 3/27/2007 2:45:22 PM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Stephann


PS: LeeAnn, I haven't had licorice in three years, so you can have my chocolate and I'll take the Twizzlers.





You have got a deal!!!!!!!!!


_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to Stephann)
Profile   Post #: 115
RE: Unwilling Witness (For Stephann) - 3/27/2007 3:06:14 PM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline 		I would simply look at the Dom and shout  "Hey Carl, it looks like Jill is acting like quite a cunt tonight...Please pass the butter."

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Profile   Post #: 116
RE: Unwilling Witness (For Stephann) - 3/27/2007 3:07:26 PM   
VelvetIronTouch


Posts: 16
Joined: 9/21/2005
Status: offline 		Personally, it's not My place to tell another couple how to behave.

However, if it was -so- bad it seriously grated on the nerves, or the sub kept being so out of line as to cause disruption or discord in the general atmosphere, I would do one of two things, depending on how well I knew the Dom/me.

If I was close with them, I would approach them, in private, and simply say hey, the way such and such is constantly behaving is really getting kind of old. Are you doing ok with her/him? etc etc.

If I only knew them socially, I would probably just stop partaking of their company. If other people were being irritated by the sub's actions as well, it is likely that the couple would slowly find themselves not being invited to so many things.

It also depends on the nature of the outings. If they were mostly informal social settings, that's one thing. If, however the sub was being disruptive and rude at something planned out and structured, with rules of decorum,  a word would be had with the Dom/me, and if they did not straighten their sub up, they would be asked to leave.

(in reply to Wildfleurs)
Profile   Post #: 117
RE: Unwilling Witness (For Stephann) - 3/27/2007 3:09:04 PM   
Wildfleurs


Posts: 1650
Joined: 9/24/2004
From: Connecticut
Status: offline 		Using fast reply...

In reading the responses and the evolution of this thread into something that seems strange and personal I can't help but think of something a person told me once that I'm going to paraphrase, and probably do so poorly.

Basically what they said was that attending events and how you behave as a submissive isn't about you but is also about more than just your dominant (although I definitely think how you represent your dominant is important).  The average play party is going to cost at least $40-$50 for a couple, plus the cost of a babysitter, plus the cost of gas, plus the cost of a hotel if they had a long drive.  And its immensely selfish to think that after all of that money, time, and effort that everyone else is putting into enjoying themselves that what they want to see is your personal disagreements or problems that you may currently have with your dominant.   

And so she had this wonderful concept that I’ve used since then of putting an issue in an open box (through visualization).  The box isn’t closed off, so the issue can be revisited later.  However since that time isn’t appropriate, it’ll be put in the box for the immediate time.  

For me its been a helpful “voice” to keep in the back of my head when we go to events and I can’t help but think of it with this thread.  

C~

Edited for wonky formatting


< Message edited by Wildfleurs -- 3/27/2007 3:12:29 PM >

_____________________________

"Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid." -despair.com

~~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
The heart of it all - http://www.wildfleurs.com
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Profile   Post #: 118
RE: Unwilling Witness (For Stephann) - 3/27/2007 3:12:34 PM   
hisannabelle


Posts: 1992
Joined: 12/3/2006
From: Tallahassee, FL, USA
Status: offline 		passion,

if i knew the slave or owner in question, and they were disturbing the people around them, and it was not a situation in which all submissives and slaves present were expected to act in a submissive manner to all dominants and masters present, i might inquire (to the slave or to the owner) whether the situation could be taken in hand, if only for the sake of harmony at the event.

if at least one of the above conditions wasn't there, i would likely just remove myself from the event. i have the feeling, knowing Him, that my owner would do the same thing. neither of us are overly social creatures to begin with, and we don't wish to partake of that kind of drama. if it was a situation where i had to stay until the end of the event, i would do my best to ignore it.

hope you are well,
annabelle.


_____________________________

a'ishah (the artist formerly known as annabelle)
i have the kind of beauty that moves...

(in reply to Passion357)
Profile   Post #: 119
RE: Unwilling Witness (For Stephann) - 3/27/2007 3:19:07 PM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline 		Then if that didn't work I would go get a blow horn and bring it into the "place" and shout...(Until arrested)....Jill is a cunt!! ...Jill is a cunt!!! ....Jill is a cunt!!!!

(while dancing around)

_____________________________



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Profile   Post #: 120
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