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RE: Iran - 4/2/2007 9:15:35 AM   
Mercnbeth


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin
How does the world feel about the situation regarding the patrol boat crew that have been arrested by the Iranian forces,and the subsequent confessions on TV?


It proves an old axiom, often given to summarize the foreign policy of the President Jimmy Carter administration: "Weakness is a provocation." 

(in reply to Aneirin)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Iran - 4/2/2007 10:04:15 AM   
luckydog1


Posts: 2736
Joined: 1/16/2006
Status: offline 		Yes I am sure that cooking it over treated lumber gives it an extra zesty flavor.  While you can eat squirel, if you tried to live on a diet of Squirel, you would get sick and eventually die.  You need more than just protien.  One can live on Squirel, and..... 

But I think the main point of my thread was the stupidity of keeping rebuilding supplies in the attic in case the house burns down.....

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Iran - 4/2/2007 10:20:51 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		hold up there, now..........you go off the deep end, where you came up with cooking it over treated lumber there; Bobby Flay, I don't know.

Additionally, there; Betty Crocker, some of the most healthy diets in the world are high protein, high fat, low carb. (see atkins, zone and so on)

And carbs are not hard to come by either there; Euell Gibbons, ever eat a pine tree? most parts are edible.....

One of my favorites is the white parts of Cattails near the root fried in butter.

Jeremiah Johnson 

< Message edited by mnottertail -- 4/2/2007 10:22:03 AM >

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Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Iran - 4/2/2007 11:46:32 AM   
luckydog1


Posts: 2736
Joined: 1/16/2006
Status: offline 		Well I got it from the post I was commenting on.  Though I suppose someone who stores stuff in the attic to rebuild after the house burns down just might not use treated lumber.  The person is obviously not thinking ahead.  Squirel is in fact very low fat.  While it can be part of a healthy diet, Alone it will not sustain you.  And what's with all the silly names?

(in reply to mnottertail)
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RE: Iran - 4/2/2007 2:07:28 PM   
meatcleaver


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Joined: 3/13/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin
How does the world feel about the situation regarding the patrol boat crew that have been arrested by the Iranian forces,and the subsequent confessions on TV?


It proves an old axiom, often given to summarize the foreign policy of the President Jimmy Carter administration: "Weakness is a provocation." 


I don't see it as that big a deal, the soldiers aren't dead and I doubt they are being tortured, though no doubt the sldiers will be under a lot of psychological strain. My guess the is that the Iranians are wondering what to do with them now they've got them and are wondering how to hand them back without losing face. The important thing is not to exaggerate the situation. There are realists in the Iranian camp that can see what they did was stupid. This little farce just has to be played out.

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RE: Iran - 4/2/2007 2:20:09 PM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

My guess the is that the Iranians are wondering what to do with them now they've got them and are wondering how to hand them back without losing face. The important thing is not to exaggerate the situation. There are realists in the Iranian camp that can see what they did was stupid. This little farce just has to be played out.


You sound worried, like you're thinking that the Iranian Jihadists might look really bad right now. Like you're pulling for them. While there are undoubtedly realists in the "Iranian camp" as you put it, I don't think any of them are in power. I think that the only ones in power in Iran want to kill all the infidels, and they think that Allah is going to help them do it, and that if they die in the process that it's an eternal bonus for them.

Just like the Koran tells them.

< Message edited by Sanity -- 4/2/2007 2:21:44 PM >

(in reply to meatcleaver)
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RE: Iran - 4/2/2007 2:35:08 PM   
meatcleaver


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

My guess the is that the Iranians are wondering what to do with them now they've got them and are wondering how to hand them back without losing face. The important thing is not to exaggerate the situation. There are realists in the Iranian camp that can see what they did was stupid. This little farce just has to be played out.


You sound worried, like you're thinking that the Iranian Jihadists might look really bad right now. Like you're pulling for them. While there are undoubtedly realists in the "Iranian camp" as you put it, I don't think any of them are in power. I think that the only ones in power in Iran want to kill all the infidels, and they think that Allah is going to help them do it, and that if they die in the process that it's an eternal bonus for them.

Just like the Koran tells them.


Nonsense. The Iranians haven't done anything irrational yet that any other country hasn't done and that includes Britain and the USA. The soldiers are obviously alive and well and they will eventually be handed back at some point once the Iranians have worked out how to save face or have got enough propaganda out of them. It is hardly something to declare war over. Now if they killed them, that would be another story but let's not let paranoia get in the way of good sense. Going in with guns blazing has never yet solved a situation in a satisfactory way. What is the point of putting the lives of the fifteen soldiers in danger just because of someone's frustration or righteous indignation back in London? It will play out to a satisfactory conclusion. If it doesn't and they kill them, which I very much doubt, the Iranians can them be bombed back to the stoneage and people like you can be smug and say 'I told you so!'

What good did Carter's attempt at rescuing American hostages do apart from get Americans killed and give the Iranians yet more propaganda to beat America with?

< Message edited by meatcleaver -- 4/2/2007 2:37:20 PM >

_____________________________

There are fascists who consider themselves humanitarians, like cannibals on a health kick, eating only vegetarians.

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Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Iran - 4/2/2007 2:41:40 PM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin
How does the world feel about the situation regarding the patrol boat crew that have been arrested by the Iranian forces,and the subsequent confessions on TV?

It proves an old axiom, often given to summarize the foreign policy of the President Jimmy Carter administration: "Weakness is a provocation." 

I don't see it as that big a deal, the soldiers aren't dead and I doubt they are being tortured, though no doubt the soldiers will be under a lot of psychological strain. My guess the is that the Iranians are wondering what to do with them now they've got them and are wondering how to hand them back without losing face. The important thing is not to exaggerate the situation. There are realists in the Iranian camp that can see what they did was stupid. This little farce just has to be played out.


MC,
I agree with those who point to this attack as a "wag the dog" example perpetrated by President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. Staying with that example supports my point.

The protagonist was not a country where the antagonist had any reason to fear. In the movie it was Albania. If John Belushi were still alive, this may have had a higher threat level. Jim Belushi? - There was no fear.

Reading the newspapers from the UK as well as the British citizens who post here; it seems Iran picked an appropriate battle. The Iranians have had to change the "Official" co-ordinance of the attack, and still their action is being rationalized as anything but what it was - an act of war.

The situation runs parallel to the Iranian "students" attack on the US Embassy. President Carter should be heralded as the "father of radical Islam" as a result of his response. He provided the first, and lasting, image of an impotent US in the region.

President Ahmadinejad is hoping for a result similar to Khomeini's successful use of the Embassy takeover to establish his regime. This is a region and a people with limited access to information. The TV broadcast of apologetic sailors grateful for the "hospitality" of there captors is seen as news not propaganda. If afterward it is discovered there is a coded message within the sailors "confessions of guilt" it will never be heard by the citizens of Iran. In that respect the battle is already lost. There is no concession of mistake coming from Iran. How do the "realists" in Iran react and respond to their President's success thus far dealing with a foe incapable and/or unwilling to act as they would?  

(in reply to meatcleaver)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Iran - 4/2/2007 2:45:10 PM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline 		I often agree with you but not on this one...

quote:

Going in with guns blazing has never yet solved a situation in a satisfactory way.


Carter was fucked over by the military and I think they put that idiot Gritz in charge to ensure the mission was a failure.  If they had wanted to succeed they would have flown the choppers in on C5A's and if necessary burnt the C5s on the ground.

Britain taking the Iranian embassay or the Israelis going in with silenced Mac10s into Entebbe.  Hell, Pearl Harbor would have if they had launched the third wave and taken out the fuel dumps, we would have had to retreat to the West coast, would have lost Midway for sure and the whole course of the Pacific war would have been different.

Another great example was how the Russians dealt with kidnapping in Beirut.  A few Russians were kidnapped.  So the Russians kidnapped a few hezbollah guys, cut their balls off and sewed them into their mouths and dumped the bodies back into the street.  Result?  No more kidnapped Russians.

Force is a tool, just like diplomacy.  Used well in the right circumstance, it can be highly effective.  Give a sledgehammer to a chimpanzee however, and many things will get broken and very few things fixed.

(in reply to meatcleaver)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Iran - 4/2/2007 2:53:00 PM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

Carter was fucked over by the military and I think they put that idiot Gritz in charge to ensure the mission was a failure.  If they had wanted to succeed they would have flown the choppers in on C5A's and if necessary burnt the C5s on the ground.

Britain taking the Iranian embassay or the Israelis going in with silenced Mac10s into Entebbe. 

Britain took the Iranian Embassy because the terrorists started to kill the hostages. Idi Amin and Entebbe was hardly Tehran.

Another great example was how the Russians dealt with kidnapping in Beirut.  A few Russians were kidnapped.  So the Russians kidnapped a few hezbollah guys, cut their balls off and sewed them into their mouths and dumped the bodies back into the street.  Result?  No more kidnapped Russians.

The Russians don't care if their act killed some of their citizens, the more important thing to Russia is that the Russian state doesn't lose face and a few of its citizens being killed along the way is no big deal.

Force is a tool, just like diplomacy.  Used well in the right circumstance, it can be highly effective.  Give a sledgehammer to a chimpanzee however, and many things will get broken and very few things fixed.

As I said, if the hostages are harmed, there is time enough to go in with guns blazing, until then, why sacrifice the hostages to righteous indignation?


_____________________________

There are fascists who consider themselves humanitarians, like cannibals on a health kick, eating only vegetarians.

(in reply to SimplyMichael)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Iran - 4/2/2007 6:10:37 PM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline 		meatcleaver,

You stated that going in guns blazing NEVER worked not

quote:

  As I said, if the hostages are harmed, there is time enough to go in with guns blazing, until then, why sacrifice the hostages to righteous indignation?


I didn't agree with the prior statement but I do agree with this one.

Sometimes "face" IS important and I think that the ME is a place where face is important.  Raygun allowing hundreds of Marines to be slaughtered and running away really really showed weakness.  Funny how that moron is benighted despite running away from a tiny threat but Carter is VILLIFIED for not taking on Iran, a country vastly larger and more powerful than Iraq.  Bush has a free hand (no worry about Soviets reacting to an American invasion on their border) and yet people act as if Carter (not you, but others) should have repeated MacArthur's mistake and rolled right up to the Soviet Bear's border!

(in reply to meatcleaver)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Iran - 4/2/2007 6:18:59 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

Just like the Koran tells them.



Sanity,

Please provide the appropriate verse notation so I can check this out. 

Thank you,

Sinergy



_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Iran - 4/2/2007 9:00:15 PM   
dcnovice


Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline
quote:

The situation runs parallel to the Iranian "students" attack on the US Embassy. President Carter should be heralded as the "father of radical Islam" as a result of his response. He provided the first, and lasting, image of an impotent US in the region.


What would you have done in his place?

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Iran - 4/2/2007 9:03:03 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

Just like the Koran tells them.



Sanity,

Please provide the appropriate verse notation so I can check this out. 

Thank you,

Sinergy




proof positive that he is a radical islamist, he can look up these things in the koran.

Say no more guys.

Ron


_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to Sinergy)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Iran - 4/2/2007 9:22:02 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

Just like the Koran tells them.



Sanity,

Please provide the appropriate verse notation so I can check this out. 

Thank you,

Sinergy




proof positive that he is a radical islamist, he can look up these things in the koran.

Say no more guys.

Ron



Because only a radical islamist would check out a copy of the Koran from the library?

Sinergy

p.s.  I was simply attempting to illustrate that one looks like an idiot when they cite sources of things they have never actually read.  Or perhaps the joke is on me and he can cite the verse.

p.p.s.  I am not a fundamentalist islamist, but I did read the Koran in college. 

p.p.p.s  I suspect he wont bother to read this, but the article http://islam101.com/dawah/jihadSHN.htm describes the spiritual significance of Jihad and the erroneous notion held by the west that Jihad is about warfare.  It simply means an inner or spiritual struggle.



_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Iran - 4/2/2007 9:34:27 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		LOLOLOLOLOLOL
You got any relatives in the mid south?

Ron


_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to Sinergy)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Iran - 4/2/2007 9:36:36 PM   
Sinergy


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Joined: 4/26/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

LOLOLOLOLOLOL
You got any relatives in the mid south?

Ron



mid south?

Like Compton?  City of Industry?

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Iran - 4/2/2007 9:38:21 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

LOLOLOLOLOLOL
You got any relatives in the mid south?

Ron



mid south?

Like Compton?  City of Industry?

Sinergy


There are people that live in Compton?

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to Sinergy)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Iran - 4/2/2007 9:40:54 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

LOLOLOLOLOLOL
You got any relatives in the mid south?

Ron



mid south?

Like Compton?  City of Industry?

Sinergy


There are people that live in Compton?


You know the answer to this question.

The 101 and 405 and 710 freeways go through Compton.

I complain about traffic, and you remind me that these people are homeless.

But they are on the freeway in Compton.

Q.E.D.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Iran - 4/2/2007 9:44:46 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		I was thinking in KY, covington, perhaps.

ron


_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to Sinergy)
Profile   Post #: 40
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