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natural order and male slaves pampering owned females - 4/2/2007 9:56:23 AM   
mixielicous


Posts: 1283
Joined: 4/6/2006
From: Boston area, Massachusetts
Status: offline 		ok this may be hard to explain

and for the sake of mindset in regards to opinion, i ask that people who believe in Natural Order [dominant man submissive woman] to please reply. not that Domme women cant reply, but it will change the context.

i am an owned slave. recently i have been propositioned by a male submissive to pamper and spoil me. it is something D usually denies me but this time agreed [once i showed it would save Him money, heh]

it is clear to this sub [who i refer to as boy] that i will NOT be his domme, or act like a domme. i am a superior slave, and this is how he will recognize me.
my interest is mainly well, free things are nice, but i am entertained by the idea of exploiting this pathetic man whom is willing to prove his "worthiness" to me over the course of 2 months with 4 purchased items. only then would any furthering "spoiling" be discussed.

now there are factors of me being humble that start to conflict with me being willing to accept these offers. for the obvious reasons....

ordinarily i have nothing against male slaves or submissives .... but something about this situation ... i cant explain, it almost feels different.


but the desire to exploit this willingness .... well is over powering.


i guess i am wondering, do you feel he deserves it simply b/c he is a man willing to pamper an owned slave with no chance of physical pleasure or interpersonal relations....

do the ends justify the means? [the ends being, in the long run D will profit the most with not having to spend His own money]

any other opinions in general?

and for the record: i am not a domme. just a more superior slave to him.

no flaming please.


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RE: natural order and male slaves pampering owned females - 4/2/2007 10:29:12 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		You want to be his escort/pro, it just happens to be that instead of expected sex or play, there is expected time and allowing to be together.

Enjoy.


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RE: natural order and male slaves pampering owned females - 4/2/2007 10:32:18 AM   
PONYSEEKER


Posts: 364
Joined: 9/11/2006
Status: offline 		"i guess i am wondering, do you feel he deserves it simply b/c he is a man willing to pamper an owned slave with no chance of physical pleasure or interpersonal relations.... "
 
No I dont... tons of red flags popping up all over the place on this one.  If you want to use the guy and he is happy to be used than use away.  I have often thought of getting my sub a boy to play with on weekends and on her summer vacations however when I think about your posts and your journal I would think that this could swing one or two ways where on one hand you could be having a great time with this guy a few months from now and be totally at odds with yourself and your position and ditch the guy or the guy will use passive agresive ways of getting you to dom him. I think using a boy for you would bring out to many internal issues that would effect your relationship without first cleaning up some of the stuff in your own relationship.  Not that you have problems really, just that you have an attention issue. D's going to caught in the middle of this one sooner or later with explosive results.
Anywhoo... that is my .000000000001 cents worth.



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RE: natural order and male slaves pampering owned females - 4/2/2007 10:32:46 AM   
mixielicous


Posts: 1283
Joined: 4/6/2006
From: Boston area, Massachusetts
Status: offline 		ok, this may be niave, but in your reply, what do you mean by escort/pro...

i mean, i know what an escort is, but i dont see how i am one myself,



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RE: natural order and male slaves pampering owned females - 4/2/2007 10:36:46 AM   
mixielicous


Posts: 1283
Joined: 4/6/2006
From: Boston area, Massachusetts
Status: offline 		thanks PS for your insight, as one of my regular LJ readers you offer a keen one [well, LA is a reader too, so you too LA]


he might use all the passive aggressive tactics in the world but, it was clear in my proposal:

"there is not time to be wasted on sexual denial, punishment, or trivial requests. this is a practical household and only practicality will be permitted. you will answer to be as the superior slave, and when in the House to D if He so desires. Anything at anytime may be amended or changed by D. "

it is also clear that a permanent position is not open/offered and that no sex/scening/or anything along those lines will be permitted or even considered.

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RE: natural order and male slaves pampering owned females - 4/2/2007 10:40:08 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mixielicous
ok, this may be niave, but in your reply, what do you mean by escort/pro...

i mean, i know what an escort is, but i dont see how i am one myself,

You're exchanging services for money/gifts.  That's what the basis of the relationship is formed upon.

In this case, instead of money for sex, it's gifts/outings/pampering for the ability to spend time and do things with you.  Many escorts/courtesans/socialites have enjoyed this livelihood.

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RE: natural order and male slaves pampering owned females - 4/2/2007 10:46:22 AM   
mixielicous


Posts: 1283
Joined: 4/6/2006
From: Boston area, Massachusetts
Status: offline 		aah i see now, and it makes me giggle teeehheeee




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RE: natural order and male slaves pampering owned females - 4/2/2007 10:52:34 AM   
mixielicous


Posts: 1283
Joined: 4/6/2006
From: Boston area, Massachusetts
Status: offline 		fast reply,


hopefully my friend will chime in on this one, but i was discussing it with a friend from here/LJ and in the end His opinion was that,

So don't feel bad at all; enjoy his gifts and attention. He is pathetic and deserves a daily reminder of how pathetic he is. Females are natural servants, and if a male serves a female, what does that make him? Less than a male and less than a female. He should consider himself lucky to retain his nuts, in my opinion. And do remind him of that with something sharp held near them from time to time.

true it is a bit out of context, but
this is what i meant when i was asking about N.O. factor.

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RE: natural order and male slaves pampering owned females - 4/2/2007 10:55:40 AM   
mixielicous


Posts: 1283
Joined: 4/6/2006
From: Boston area, Massachusetts
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PONYSEEKER
on one hand you could be having a great time with this guy a few months from now and be totally at odds with yourself and your position and ditch the guy




mind elaborating PS?

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RE: natural order and male slaves pampering owned females - 4/2/2007 11:09:33 AM   
PONYSEEKER


Posts: 364
Joined: 9/11/2006
Status: offline 		I think it cators to a darker side of you that you havent really explored yet.  Not to belittle you but your a happy little sub and that how you should stay. Many subs out there want your like...lol I would not be surprised if I found out that you have never had a superficial relationship with anyone. I honestly feel that you need a greater sense of internal acceptance and belonging with your Master before you add a third to the mix even if its on a non sexual basis because you still seem to test your Master for acceptance which I think is an important issue for you even if its not something that you appear to activly persue. Somthing like this boy would act as a distraction from what your true goal in life is.  I think its something you should get into later on once you feel better about your position but if there is a taint of emotional weakness than the boy would exploit to much. I know you might not think of the boy as exploitive but I am sure he is.... it just hasnt reared its ungly head yet.

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RE: natural order and male slaves pampering owned females - 4/2/2007 11:13:47 AM   
mixielicous


Posts: 1283
Joined: 4/6/2006
From: Boston area, Massachusetts
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PONYSEEKER

I think it cators to a darker side of you that you havent really explored yet. Not to belittle you but your a happy little sub and that how you should stay. Many subs out there want your like...lol I would not be surprised if I found out that you have never had a superficial relationship with anyone.

they want my what? my like? lol

its true, i am not the superficial type [sheesh are my lines that easy to read inbetween?]

& i really do appreciate your concern PS, it shows the situation from an angle i did not see before.

i guess i could only hope that i was not that easily distracted ....

and what is this darker side? do i even wanna know??? lol

< Message edited by mixielicous -- 4/2/2007 11:14:27 AM >

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RE: natural order and male slaves pampering owned females - 4/2/2007 11:16:01 AM   
PONYSEEKER


Posts: 364
Joined: 9/11/2006
Status: offline 		Sorry.. typo .. meant lifestyle...LOL

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RE: natural order and male slaves pampering owned females - 4/2/2007 11:20:29 AM   
Kindandcruel


Posts: 27
Joined: 5/29/2005
Status: offline 		What I see in your writing is not the question of owning or justification of having a male sub/slve it is the psychological delimma of your basic belief system of the natural order of things... which I agree with totally. I have proven that even the most aggressive and self proclaimed women have a underlying requirement in their makeup to be submissive to a man...

The question needs to be asked: Why is the Natural way of things such that men on the most part are the Dominant of the species rather than the women or even a cross-section of both. In my 30 years of research into psychology... combining with many advanced papers in brain research, theology, alternative science... yadda yadda.... There is a very distinct difference in both how the brain operates as well as the basic genetic make up between men and women.

(Sorry, I am writing this in my car at a rest stop... so typo's are to be expected.)

Both Men and women can be pretty much taught the same thing... so the equality issue on that aspect is moot.

Where we find the difference is not the external aspects but in the internal aspects... for example, Russian Kirilian photography and other means of detection has shown that women have an energy field that starts out egg shaped and changes in their lives... whereas men have a more compressed energy field which the alternative people like to call linear... close enough.

Brain studies have shown that the emotional activity of men and women take place in different parts of the brain (overall). This means that what a woman "Feels" cannot be understood by a man becasue he "Feels" in a different part of his brain and processes the "feeling differently." So the experience internally of love or joy or lust is a totally different experience for a man than that of a woman.

So get over this liberal idea that men should be more sensitive like women.... it is impossible. Men can only be masculine sensitive. Also get over the new age garbage of everybody having masculine and feminine... that is just another worng intreprutation of Yin/Yang by western culture (I grew up in Asia).... and the west has a bad habbit of screwing up the meaning of everything to make it fit their own myopic outlook rather than see that they were wrong in the first place and adjust accordingly.

Think about this, the vast majority of Liberals are women, what is the worldwide cry of the liberal? It is for more government, more laws, more overal population control... this is how a submissive thinks.... to be under control and place everybody under that same control....

What about submissive men... Overall that is a product of behavioral control of a society that is hell bent on breaking men... the feminist agenda (Yes, I grew up when thata first started as well... it isn't about having choice or equality... it's about money, control, and manipulation of society originally planned by men...)

I know this is getting long.... it is a very large subject that I have studies and written a lot about.

Getting back to the original issue; There is no easy solution outside of rationalization at the moment. Yes, you will have fun in the beginning, but it will also eat at you in the long term becasue it is contrary to your natural life path and belief system....

My advice is to spend a lot of time talking to your Master and don't follow the advice on these boards... The advice on these boards are from people that usually live on these boards throwing out their opinion (which is fine) but there is little to nothing to back it up other than their own ego.... The advice I have normally seen on these forums has been extremely flawed and with a specific agenda... This is why you will rarely see me replying to anything unless it is a real issue... more often than not the question is looking for support in an action they have already decided upon and is only looking for support from starngers which is readily given...

Good luck...



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RE: natural order and male slaves pampering owned females - 4/2/2007 11:27:52 AM   
mixielicous


Posts: 1283
Joined: 4/6/2006
From: Boston area, Massachusetts
Status: offline 		so do you agree then, with the quote from post #5 edit to add, i mean #8?

if a man is willing to submit to me, someone of slave status, then he deserves what is coming? and that he should be reminded of how pathetic he is for shedding his natural claim to a dominant throne?

hence the willingness to exploit HIS willingness - [even though it is a win-win situation]

< Message edited by mixielicous -- 4/2/2007 11:28:45 AM >

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RE: natural order and male slaves pampering owned females - 4/2/2007 11:31:09 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mixielicous
so do you agree then, with the quote from post #5 edit to add, i mean #8?

if a man is willing to submit to me, someone of slave status, then he deserves what is coming? and that he should be reminded of how pathetic he is for shedding his natural claim to a dominant throne?

hence the willingness to exploit HIS willingness - [even though it is a win-win situation]

He doesn't DESERVE it any more than you do.

But if he's into humiliation/degradation, there's no need to hold back.

I of course think the "natural order" thing is crap and his choosing to form this relationship with you is a fine choice.

If it's degrading for him, then what exactly does that say about you?

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

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RE: natural order and male slaves pampering owned females - 4/2/2007 11:37:45 AM   
mixielicous


Posts: 1283
Joined: 4/6/2006
From: Boston area, Massachusetts
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:

ORIGINAL: mixielicous
so do you agree then, with the quote from post #5 edit to add, i mean #8?

if a man is willing to submit to me, someone of slave status, then he deserves what is coming? and that he should be reminded of how pathetic he is for shedding his natural claim to a dominant throne?

hence the willingness to exploit HIS willingness - [even though it is a win-win situation]

He doesn't DESERVE it any more than you do.

But if he's into humiliation/degradation, there's no need to hold back.

I of course think the "natural order" thing is crap and his choosing to form this relationship with you is a fine choice.

If it's degrading for him, then what exactly does that say about you?

hmmmm ... well!

do you mean, degrading for him to spoil me, OR degrading for him if i took it a step further in the N.O. direction? thus resulting in me being the degrader... which way did you mean so i can answer this most likely rhetorical question, LOL

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RE: natural order and male slaves pampering owned females - 4/2/2007 11:39:35 AM   
marieToo


Posts: 3595
Joined: 5/21/2006
From: Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mixielicous

ok this may be hard to explain

and for the sake of mindset in regards to opinion, i ask that people who believe in Natural Order [dominant man submissive woman] to please reply. not that Domme women cant reply, but it will change the context.

i am an owned slave. recently i have been propositioned by a male submissive to pamper and spoil me. it is something D usually denies me but this time agreed [once i showed it would save Him money, heh]

it is clear to this sub [who i refer to as boy] that i will NOT be his domme, or act like a domme. i am a superior slave, and this is how he will recognize me.
my interest is mainly well, free things are nice, but i am entertained by the idea of exploiting this pathetic man whom is willing to prove his "worthiness" to me over the course of 2 months with 4 purchased items. only then would any furthering "spoiling" be discussed.

now there are factors of me being humble that start to conflict with me being willing to accept these offers. for the obvious reasons....

ordinarily i have nothing against male slaves or submissives .... but something about this situation ... i cant explain, it almost feels different.


but the desire to exploit this willingness .... well is over powering.


i guess i am wondering, do you feel he deserves it simply b/c he is a man willing to pamper an owned slave with no chance of physical pleasure or interpersonal relations....

do the ends justify the means? [the ends being, in the long run D will profit the most with not having to spend His own money]

any other opinions in general?

and for the record: i am not a domme. just a more superior slave to him.

no flaming please.



I am not flaming you.  In all honesty, it feels like you and D are perhaps trying to acquire these 4 things of monetary value (or trying to get some stuff for free), and you are scraping very very deeply to find a way to wrap it into a mutual/consentual kink, so it won't feel as wrong to you as it actually does.   

The impression I get from the Lavender highlighted text is that he thinks he is proving his "worthiness" as a way to earn something.....Like there will be something at the end of that journey.  But the impression I get from you is that you have no intention of ANY type of relationship with him (sexual, non-sexual, friendship "interpersonal" whatever).
It sounds to me (and maybe Im wrong or missing something) but it sounds to me like you have no intention of any mutuality with 'boy'.   It sounds as if you just want free things, then to discuss MORE free things or "pampering" as you put it.  I would really have to wonder what boy thinks he is getting into?  Does boy know that he will only be making purchases and not having a relationship with you?  Does he know you are about to "exploit" him just for the free items?  Are you deceiving him in any way?   Have you told him up front that he may be just supplying you with "things"  and nothing more beyond that?   If so, is he ok with that?  These are the questions that cross my mind, when I read your post.

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RE: natural order and male slaves pampering owned females - 4/2/2007 11:53:40 AM   
mixielicous


Posts: 1283
Joined: 4/6/2006
From: Boston area, Massachusetts
Status: offline 		i see easily, how it may seem this way.

the offer was made for real time origionally, but moved to online over a period of time to "prove himself" was more of D's idea - so that all three of us can know that we are all in it - and none of us are creeps or trolls

boy DOES know there is NO chance for sex/scene/etc. boy DOES know that after the course of the 2 months, further spoiling etc WILL be discussed [including but not limited to: chauffeuring, errands, cleaning with or FOR me/helping me prepare for dates/escort etc.]

i do hope to build a slave like companionship, where i am the superior, but not a Domme.

boy will in fact receive things in return: for every item purchased he in return gets a pic of me in it and a "command/training" of how i like things done in this house if he wishes to visit at the end of two months.

boy DOES know although this situation may last long term, it is NOT permanent.

this is the actual formal proposal boy recieved:


dear G***, if you wish to pamper - this is how it will be:

over the course of 2 months, you will prove yourself worthy via online shopping. acceptable items include: bondage gear, dresses & shoes. nothing over the value of $50. for every item received you in return will get one photo and one command or training request.

you will be expected to purchase something every two weeks [4 items], and for them to arrive timely. you will go by the name "boy" until you are deemed worthy at which point you may take back your own name or be renamed by myself.

i will be your alpha slave, not your Domme. under my guidance you will receive practical training which will please me, and my Master. there is not time to be wasted on sexual denial, punishment, or trivial requests. this is a practical household and only practicality will be permitted. you will answer to be as the superior slave, and when in the House to D if He so desires. Anything at anytime may be ammended or changed by D.

when you receive this email you are to notify me and will be granted 48 hours from when you read this to accept our proposals. only when you are deemed worthy will further activities of "pampering" be discussed.

Do you read this clearly boy?


the only thing he is possibly "deceived" on is my belief in natural order. while he knows i believe in it, he does not know that by letting him spoil me i am in fact exploiting my own belief that he is lower than me [although me being alpha is clear] .. i do plan on sharing that today though.

edit to add- he found me, i did not approach him.



< Message edited by mixielicous -- 4/2/2007 11:56:54 AM >

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RE: natural order and male slaves pampering owned females - 4/2/2007 12:01:14 PM   
marieToo


Posts: 3595
Joined: 5/21/2006
From: Jersey
Status: offline 		Awesome.

<I realize my post went off your intended context, but that is exactly what ran through my head.>  Im glad you didn't take offense.

As long as you are all on the same page, I wish you the best and don't think you should feel conflicted at all.  Im not a big believer in natural order, though I personally enjoy being inferior to males, I dont think the entire world should agree, or that there is anything wrong with boy wanting to be degraded or used by a female such as yourself.

Thanks for your gracious reply. 

:)






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RE: natural order and male slaves pampering owned females - 4/2/2007 12:05:06 PM   
Stephann


Posts: 4214
Joined: 12/27/2006
From: Portland, OR
Status: offline 		Hiya mixie,

Not to seem like a wet blanket, but if he was penniless, would you still entertain his proposition?  Suppose you learned within three months that the gifts and money he was giving you were actually supposed to be going to child support payments?  What use will you have for him, if the gifts (and his means to financially support himself) dry up?

He's a consenting adult, so naturally the choice is his.  If it wasn't with you, it could (and likely would) be for someone else.  The question is similar to how would you feel as a crack dealer?  Are you prepared to learn about the things he may need to do, the lengths he may need to go, to appease you?  If this isn't strictly a financially motivated transaction, why require tribute?  And can you trust this man to be capable of keeping the boundaries clear between acceptable and unacceptable behavior?

I live in a country where I could employ myself as a pimp.  Prostitution is legal in Chile (mostly, anyway.)  It would be highly profitable, and afford me a much better lifestyle than I currently enjoy.  On the flip side, I would be forced to deal with people in a way that would cause me to dislike myself a great deal.  Only you can decide that a week or month or year after this interaction, will you feel like a better person?  Or will you feel like you have used him.

The bottom line is you're the one who will have to live with your choice.  My questions probably make my own position on your situation clear; rest assured whatever you choose to do will end up fine, so long as you go into it with open eyes, and fully aware of the potential risks and consequences.

Good luck,

Stephan


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