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Why Iran is a very very bad idea - 4/2/2007 8:09:30 PM   
SimplyMichael


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http://www.debka.com/headline.php?hid=3826

I didn't realize Egypt and Yugoslavia produce the SA-7 and with these sort of sales of SA-18s...

Since both Russia and China have a serious incentive to fuck with us and Russia has a bit of an old grudge...we fuck with Iran and all bets are off.  I would not want to be  in the air in Iraq...
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RE: Why Iran is a very very bad idea - 4/2/2007 8:53:58 PM   
caitlyn


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These weapons work best when there is a narow path the aircraft have to fly through in order to reach targets. Obviously Israel would be greatly concerned.
 
Not so much in Iran. It would be very hard to predict where air attacks would come from, which does tend to be the tricky part, after all.
 
The greatest conventional military threat Iran poses, is Moskit missiles on patrol boats, attacking ships in the Persian Gulf, and especially as they pass through the Staight of Hormuz. Unconventional warfare ... well, I think we all see how good we are at that ... or not, as the case may be.
 
Then again, do we really need to find military reasons not to invade Iran (even if they are imagined)? "This entire affair is not a hill worth dying on." ... to quote Robert E. Lee.

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RE: Why Iran is a very very bad idea - 4/2/2007 9:23:12 PM   
Arpig


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Seems to me that both Serbia and Iraq had these sorts of missiles and it didn't really serve them very well

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RE: Why Iran is a very very bad idea - 4/2/2007 10:14:14 PM   
mnottertail


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thats actually quite profound you little shit.... and you can see that as a cheap shot,  butit ain't.............unfortunately they should have the civil war now, we fucked with em enough.

Abe Lincoln


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RE: Why Iran is a very very bad idea - 4/2/2007 10:42:18 PM   
SimplyMichael


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Caitlyn,

It isn't having those missiles in Iran that is the threat, it is attacking Iran and Iran no longer having to pretend they are neutral.  Those missiles handed out in Baghdad and other cities would spell doom for the US occupation.

Arpig,

Thanks for playing but you clearly don't know squat about the air war in Serbia.

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RE: Why Iran is a very very bad idea - 4/3/2007 5:30:42 AM   
Termyn8or


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Attack Iran, sure. We can take anybody. We are the sole superpower in the world right ? We are so tough even the whole rest of the world can't do anything about it right ?

Let's get straight on this. What is good for Haliburton is good for the US, oops good for Dubai. The cost in human lives is meaningless. We must have profits, and to make an omelet you have to break eggs.

If, tomorrow morning Iran announced that it had a new weapon and it was to be tested at noon, the neocons would take note. When they launch the new mystery weapon and it hits the middle of the desert in four seconds from ½ way around the world, delivering a nuke, the neocons would definitely invade Iran.

If Iran had a super laser weapon that dematerialized all our ships in the area in 3 milliseconds, it would be time to attack. Don't you see ? Nobody but Israel and the US are allowed to have a defense, we have said it, and I don't give a damn if it costs EVERY US citizen his life, these people are going to obey us.

If you're taking over the world you must do it right. But Hitler had better strategists and advisors than anyone in the US government today, and he couldn't do it. Actually if it weren't for the Bolsheviks we might've seen a unified Europe by 1945.

Those were the days. Actually back then one could just about take over Europe. It would've taken better planning. If I were Hitler I would've told Japan DO NOT attack the US, the very first thing they should've done would be to attack Russia instead of Pearl Harbor if they were truly Germany's ally. See how they like a two front war.

Think of how history would've shaped up in such a case. Whether Russia would've put her resources into clobbering Japan instead of focusing on taking Europe, Fat Man and Little Boy might have never happened.

The biggest problems stemming from the way history did unfold are numerous. But there is one problem that overshadows the rest. That problem is that these idiots feel like they are invulnerable. Invincable. The think the bomb is,,,,,, the bomb.

Israel has plenty of nukes, perhaps it is time for her to do some of her own dirty work. Oops, can't, their real threats are too closeby, fallout remember ? Can't have that. OK, they just come and buy American lives for the job. You know they got all the major European capitals targeted, how much you wanna bet they got at least one ICBM with our name on it, in case we betray their power ?

I say attack Iran, in fact Syria, Libya anyone else that looks funny. Support the neocons, egg them on to start more wars. That is the only way. The only way is for them to literally run out of troops and money. And the sooner the better.

Sorry about what happens to the rest of us, but maybe we need to make an omelet. Maybe it is time for a great cleansing.

Maybe it is time for a new dialogue :Bush "Troops, don't worry about those Moskits, they only have 100 mile range or so", Person with brain "But we will be within 100 miles", Bush "Yea, but I won't".

But the common Man will not hear of such a discourse. You didn't hear much about the USS Liberty back in 67 did you ? Maybe it is time we have a similar accident. We could pretend to be nuking Iran and send that sucker straight to the Dimora nuclear power plant in the Negev desert. Oops. It was an accident.

Think of it, Israel largely uninhabitable, and uninhabited. Would have to find the remaining Palestinians a little corner where they can be themselves. After our little "accident" the rest of the Semites on the planet will probably ally themselves with us, and gas will again be 50 cents a gallon. We save all those billions in foreign aid as well.

We could then let go of the Arab governments we prop up, more money stays home.

While I agree that you don't switch sides to be with the winners, sometimes when your allies treat you like Israel treats us, you switch sides because you know you can't trust your current allies.

Nobody will do this though, but look for Israel to do some of her own dirty work in the near future. They'll probably attack Iran themselves, which would make it too late for us to switch sides. They know their days of running the US government are numbered. They know they are losing control all over the place. They see the writing on the wall.

They know the whole world is starting to hate them and there big bad bubba billy club bully, the US.

When the shit really hits the fan, it is a shame what is going to happen to the Jews. But they were stupid to follow the Zionists. They thought they got fucked last time, but when the fission starts we are talking about a permanent diaspora.

How does your bible fit that in ? You know the bible is the cause of ½ this shit. That book was written by Jews. The promised land was promised by people. God promises nothing. Never has, never will. The bible has been used as a tool to brainwash people for the last 5,000 years, and it seems to have worked.

Of course GWB has probably never opened a bible in his existence, but alot of the people who voted for him did. They could never vote for Kerry because Kerry is a baby killer. Pro choice. Perhaps these voters should take their superior morality over to Iraq and see how things are. How are the babies doing ? What babies, we used to have kids until we got bombed !

Baby killer ? Perhaps they should bring this superior morality to the promised land. Maybe they should have a talk with Rachel Corrie, oops, can't, she was run over by an Israeli tank trying to save a building full of innocent people. She just doesn't realize, God said these people should die, kids and all. She must just stand by and watch, that is the Christian way. She must forgive the Israelis, for they are the chosen people. The good book says so.

I'm sure the Zio-Christianists would fully support bombing Iran, Syria, Lebanon, Libya, all kinds of places. Just can't let Kerry the babykiller do it.

Don't people realize that they should never ever reelect a US President (maybe Ron Paul) because they know they can't run again ? Even if you liked what they did in their first term, you won't like what they do in their second. Almost guaranteed.

And I have one question for the Zio-Christianists, were there no babies in Iraq ? Are there no babies in Iran ?

Sorry Iranians, but I say send the bombs. We must cleanse our government of these people and I regret that their undoing will cost many lives, but we'll all be better of in the long run.

Bomb Iran, bomb everybody. Show the world who is boss. Problem is, that'll break the bank. You'll see people in the US resorting to cannibalism and shit. But a new day will dawn, and starting WW3 is the night, the darkness preceeding a new age. Hopefully one in which people will think rationally and pay attention to what government is doing.

Until then we got what we got.

T

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RE: Why Iran is a very very bad idea - 4/3/2007 6:07:34 AM   
subrob1967


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And the Republican Guard would fight to the death, cause they're like Shaft...Bad motherfuckers... Ok I'll stop laughing now.

Iran's standing army would roll over as fast as Iraq's did, winning the battle won't be the problem.

Invasion works, occupation doesn't, if the U.S. makes the same foolish mistake it's been making since 1965, Iran would become another Vietnam, Somalia, Beruit, and Iraq.

As for China or Russia fucking with us, it's just business, very big business, arms sales that is, it's all about the Benjamin's. 

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RE: Why Iran is a very very bad idea - 4/3/2007 6:55:46 AM   
SimplyMichael


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Rob,

Arabs have rarely made good soldiers, Persian's aren't Arabs.  Besides, the whole point of this thread which you clearly missed isn't that Iran will be a difficult threat in a conventional way.

They will ramp up Hezbollah against the Israelis, they will no longer have to be subtle or circumspect in their behavior in Iraq.  Arming the Iraqi insurgents with AA missles will counter our primary advantage, that of close air support.  We move everything we can now by air.

As for the Russians and the Chinese, it has nothing to do with arms sales and everything to do with oil and long term geopolitical strategy.

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RE: Why Iran is a very very bad idea - 4/3/2007 7:02:41 AM   
Sanity


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

They will ramp up Hezbollah against the Israelis, they will no longer have to be subtle or circumspect in their behavior in Iraq.  Arming the Iraqi insurgents with AA missles will counter our primary advantage, that of close air support.  We move everything we can now by air.



Oh yeah, I'm sure all our helicopter pilots serving in Iraq are eternally grateful for Iran's not giving SAMs to Iraqi terrorists...

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RE: Why Iran is a very very bad idea - 4/3/2007 8:25:36 AM   
Stephann


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The question will never be 'if' we can level Iran militarily.  The problem is if we do level them, what will follow ten years later?  The west has become worthless as conquerers/occupiers.  The bombs we drop today will be as seeds of terrorism tomorrow, and a bitter harvest it will be.

Stephan


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RE: Why Iran is a very very bad idea - 4/3/2007 10:45:55 AM   
SimplyMichael


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Stephan,

Exactly...

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RE: Why Iran is a very very bad idea - 4/3/2007 2:37:49 PM   
Sternhand4


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Stephann

The question will never be 'if' we can level Iran militarily.  The problem is if we do level them, what will follow ten years later?  The west has become worthless as conquerers/occupiers.  The bombs we drop today will be as seeds of terrorism tomorrow, and a bitter harvest it will be.

Stephan


 
When I read posts like this I laugh. Its always stated as a western military act caused the Islamic reaction ( worse yet its used as a justification for acts like suicide bombers and targeting civilians ) or Jihad as they call it.
Read what the Islamic radical have written. They hate americans and the west for more than just our military.
It our culture ( this site alone would be justification enough for them to bomb you ) They do not want to co exist, they want you and me to convert to Islam or die.
Its that simple.
Advocating Total Extermination of Islam's Enemies
Al-Qaeda has adopted a broader interpretation of the religious command concerning the killing of infidels. It is considered an absolute command that does not depend on political circumstances, the need or will to take revenge, or a wish to liberate Muslim lands from infidel rule. Saif al-Din al-Ansari, in an article in al-Qaeda's official periodical, presented the new, comprehensive concept of total extermination of Islam's enemies based on the Quranic verse: "And that He may purge those who believe and deprive the unbelievers of blessings" (Al-Imran, 142). According to al-Ansari, this is the way Allah deals with infidels, who are doomed throughout history to total extermination through various types of death, as was the fate of the people of Noah, Hod, Saleh, Lot, Midian, and Pharaoh. Al-Ansari asserted that the extermination of infidels is a permanent Islamic law and unchangeable fate for infidels that is as relevant today as it was in past generations. According to al-Ansari, "Just as the law of extermination was applied to the infidel forces among the nations in previous days and no one could escape it, so it will be applied to the infidel forces in our day and no one will escape it. Namely, similar to the fate of the Thamoud and 'Ad peoples [two pagan Arab peoples which, according to Islamic tradition, were exterminated due to their rejection of the words of the Prophet], so the American state, the Jewish state, and all other infidel countries will certainly be destroyed."24
Al-Ansari further developed his concept of total extermination in a subsequent article. First, he firmly criticized the Islamic movements that raise the banner of daawa (Islamic preaching) and support the gradual spread of Islam through education, social organizations, and the economy as the preferred means to bring about the victory of Islam over other religions. He asserts that Allah has the power and might to subdue the infidels and to exterminate them by his will. However, He has not done so because of His wish to designate this task to Muslims.
Al-Ansari relies on the Quranic verse: "Fight them, Allah will punish them by your hands and bring them to disgrace [meaning that Allah will kill the infidels], and assist you against them and heal the hearts of a believing people" (Al-Tawba, 14). The key word in this verse is "by your hands," which indicates the great importance Allah attributes to the physical action of the infidels' extermination. This is even more substantial than the daawa in executing the command of jihad, since the daawa, as important as it might be, could not fulfill God's commandment for extermination.
Al-Ansari wrote: "Allah is capable of exterminating his enemies with no need for intermediaries or the help of anyone. His might is infinite...therefore, when He [Allah] designates the task of extermination of infidels to his believers, He does so as a hidden expression of His power...the infidels' extermination is part of Islamic law, which is operative until the Day of Judgment. Its principal element will be fulfilled only at the hands of the believers, meaning through jihad, which is also to be operative until the Day of Judgment.25
 
So unless your willing to convert be prepared to confront these Islamic terrorists.

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RE: Why Iran is a very very bad idea - 4/3/2007 2:39:37 PM   
michaelOfGeorgia


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can we say "Vietnam Part II: The Next Generation"?

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RE: Why Iran is a very very bad idea - 4/3/2007 3:08:44 PM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sternhand4

So unless your willing to convert be prepared to confront these Islamic terrorists.



Aren't you saying the exact same thing that you're claiming they're saying i.e. "it's either us or them?


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RE: Why Iran is a very very bad idea - 4/3/2007 3:12:57 PM   
mnottertail


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sternhand4

So unless your willing to convert be prepared to confront these Islamic terrorists.



Aren't you saying the exact same thing that you're claiming they're saying i.e. "it's either us or them?



LOLOLOLOL,

Ja, the fear factor in this one gotta be right up there  with eating stir fried  cockroaches al dente----- especially since these heathen have slaughtered and converted millions of people since the crusades----

Hey wait a minute, don't these rot in hell bastards believe in the same god that the christians do?


Uh oh------------

Ron

I think the only real difference here is that pedastery is given to the masses in islam and  reserved for the hiearchy of the catholic church on the christian side




< Message edited by mnottertail -- 4/3/2007 3:14:56 PM >


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RE: Why Iran is a very very bad idea - 4/3/2007 3:13:07 PM   
Sternhand4


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sternhand4

So unless your willing to convert be prepared to confront these Islamic terrorists.



Aren't you saying the exact same thing that you're claiming they're saying i.e. "it's either us or them?



I wouldnt say that the west has a exterminate all those who dont have the same religion/ economic / belief as us approach. But I have read on numerous occasions this idea posted from the Islamic point of view.

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RE: Why Iran is a very very bad idea - 4/3/2007 5:16:33 PM   
SimplyMichael


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Oh the "they just hate us" line is such utter and complete bullshit.

Just as a minor example.  I have these cool US Army guides to various countries put out in WWII.  I have a couple of the rare ones on the ME, Syria, Iran, and one other one.  They talk about the importance of recognizing WHICH religion the town is before entering.  It describes how to tell Christian, Jewish, and Muslim towns by the various shapes of churches, synagogues, and mosques.  It speaks of the warm welcome and how not to be an asshole and piss the locals off.

I realize I should probably explain what the above means to those who breath through their mouths but I just don't have the patience to spoon feed people today.

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RE: Why Iran is a very very bad idea - 4/3/2007 5:17:19 PM   
Sinergy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sternhand4
Read what the Islamic radical have written. They hate americans and the west for more than just our military.


 
Read what Christian radicals have written.  They hate muslims and want to use our military to cleanse them from the earth.
 
quote:


 
It our culture ( this site alone would be justification enough for them to bomb you ) They do not want to co exist, they want you and me to convert to Islam or die.


 
Where exactly are you getting your information from?

The vast majority of followers of Islam dont live anywhere near the middle east.  Additionally, the vast majority of followers of Islam are not hate-filled, anti-West fundamentalists.  Ever stop to think that there might be a reason the people in the Middle East hate the West which has nothing to do with our culture?

My professor of the Vietnam War made a comment that has always stuck with me.  In response to a question from a student in the class "Why wouldn't Vietnam want to normalize relations with the United States after our troops left?"  He indicated "If Vietnam had bombed and strafed and snipered and slaughtered and agent-oranged Orange County for 14 years, I suspect the United States would not be overly willing to be friends with them when it was over."

Might want to consider the context in which these anti-West sentiments are born before you start parroting reactionary talking-head-spouted gibberish.

Al-Ansari writes things like that to inflame other ignorant, hate-filled, fundamentalist nitwits in the middle east, as well as to inflame hate-filled, ignorant, fundamentalist anti-Muslim nitwits in the United States. 

Sinergy

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RE: Why Iran is a very very bad idea - 4/3/2007 5:25:08 PM   
Sternhand4


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

Oh the "they just hate us" line is such utter and complete bullshit.

Really,    come to Manhattan sometime...


Just as a minor example.  I have these cool US Army guides to various countries put out in WWII.  I have a couple of the rare ones on the ME, Syria, Iran, and one other one.  They talk about the importance of recognizing WHICH religion the town is before entering.  It describes how to tell Christian, Jewish, and Muslim towns by the various shapes of churches, synagogues, and mosques.  It speaks of the warm welcome and how not to be an asshole and piss the locals off.

I realize I should probably explain what the above means to those who breath through their mouths but I just don't have the patience to spoon feed people today.


I see you compare attitides from 1945 to 2007 brilliant observation...

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RE: Why Iran is a very very bad idea - 4/3/2007 5:39:11 PM   
Sternhand4


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sternhand4
Read what the Islamic radical have written. They hate americans and the west for more than just our military.


 
Read what Christian radicals have written.  They hate muslims and want to use our military to cleanse them from the earth.
 
If you want to use the issue then you cite the source..
I have seen no such calling in a general sense in the religious community.

quote:


 
It our culture ( this site alone would be justification enough for them to bomb you ) They do not want to co exist, they want you and me to convert to Islam or die.


 
Where exactly are you getting your information from?
Are you denying that Radical islam wants to erase the west? I use their own writings as sources..


The vast majority of followers of Islam dont live anywhere near the middle east.  Additionally, the vast majority of followers of Islam are not hate-filled, anti-West fundamentalists.  Ever stop to think that there might be a reason the people in the Middle East hate the West which has nothing to do with our culture?

Oh you must be referring to "moderate muslims"

It is vital to grasp that traditional and even mainstream Islamic teaching accepts and promotes violence. Shariah, for example, allows apostates to be killed, permits beating women to discipline them, seeks to subjugate non-Muslims to Islam as dhimmis and justifies declaring war to do so. It exhorts good Muslims to exterminate the Jews before the "end of days." The near deafening silence of the Muslim majority against these barbaric practices is evidence enough that there is something fundamentally wrong.
http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=110009890
 
 


My professor of the Vietnam War made a comment that has always stuck with me.  In response to a question from a student in the class "Why wouldn't Vietnam want to normalize relations with the United States after our troops left?"  He indicated "If Vietnam had bombed and strafed and snipered and slaughtered and agent-oranged Orange County for 14 years, I suspect the United States would not be overly willing to be friends with them when it was over."

Might want to consider the context in which these anti-West sentiments are born before you start parroting reactionary talking-head-spouted gibberish.

Al-Ansari writes things like that to inflame other ignorant, hate-filled, fundamentalist nitwits in the middle east, as well as to inflame hate-filled, ignorant, fundamentalist anti-Muslim nitwits in the United States. 

Sinergy


I see your a we must have started this first guy, So in your opinion what would stop the islamic terrorists then? I mean short of the defeat the US now strategy the Libs want to employ.

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