RE: Would you pay more for a product if you knew in doing so you would support a fair trade approach (Full Version)

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stockingluvr54 -> RE: Would you pay more for a product if you knew in doing so you would support a fair trade approach (4/4/2007 10:08:04 AM)

I understood the original post...sorry if I stepped in another direction.




Mercnbeth -> RE: Would you pay more for a product if you knew in doing so you would support a fair trade approach (4/4/2007 10:15:52 AM)

quote:

Perhaps the The 2007 Social Capitalist Awards  might be a little more enlightening toward the subject I have in mind. http://www.fastcompany.com/social/


What do the companies on this list have in common? None are publicly held or traded and the majority are either non-profit or not for profit organizations.

It is an "enlightening" list. It enlightened me that to be a "Social Capitalist" you rely on contributions and/or tax dollars. Answering to shareholders and investors requires a different kind of enlightened thinking.




SirDiscipliner69 -> RE: Would you pay more for a product if you knew in doing so you would support a fair trade approach (4/4/2007 10:54:28 AM)

Social Impact, Aspiration & Growth, Entrepreneurship, Innovation and Sustainability....sharing our methodology publicly can encourage other non-profit organizations and their funders to hold themselves accountable for publicly demonstrating and maximizing the social impact created with the resources they command.
http://www.fastcompany.com/social/2007/method/index.html

Ross
©º°¨¨°º©





Vendaval -> RE: Would you pay more for a product if you knew in doing so you would support a fair trade approach (4/4/2007 11:58:15 AM)

I also avoid shopping at the big box stores.
We have two local hardware stores in town;
they get my money both for super service and
because they are locally owned and operated.




GoddessDustyGold -> RE: Would you pay more for a product if you knew in doing so you would support a fair trade approach tha (4/4/2007 2:23:55 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SirDiscipliner69

Say for example a coffee shop decides to post its intentions of supporting underpaid coffee growers in country A so the customers can see it.

It outlines the awareness issue and why they are going to do it and how it will effect the prices that will get past on the the customers.

Now knowing that this deal will help a farmer buy a new tin roof and support his children through school would one not feel the moral responsibilty to try and do the right thing even though it cost a bit more from the customer who is more afluent than the farmer?

Ross
©º°¨¨°º©


No.  And here is why.  There are plenty of people who are struggling right here in the USA.  I am not going to worry about someone in a third world country until we have cleaned things up here at home.  That is probably why I have never "adopted" one those kids on the late night infomercials.  I would rather give supplies directly to the local Thomas J. Pappas school for the homeless here in Phoenix.  And I said supplies...not money.  But that worthy organization does not get nearly the play that the 3rd world hurricane victims get.  Or the starving farmers half way around the world. 
In most cases over half of any money that is donated is eaten up in fundraising costs.  So I don't do it.  Period.
My first moral responsiblity is to Myself and My family.  After that I can, if I have the means, extend My generosity.  It will be a long time, if ever, that I can afford to take care of the world.

quote:

It outlines the awareness issue and why they are going to do it and how it will effect the prices that will get past on the the customers


And how much of this is not being passed on the customer but is being donated by the business owners who are doing this wonderful thing?  So color Me a cynic.  Their job is to bring in more business, and so they play on the  "moral responsibility", or should we say the "guilt factor".  A damn good way to market, isn't it?  Like they say...follow the money. 
 
*Edited for those tags again!




Dtesmoac -> RE: Would you pay more for a product if you knew in doing so you would support a fair trade approach tha (4/4/2007 6:44:17 PM)

.............if the consequences of producing the product are not important, should the producer care about the impact on the people buying the product? On the principle you do not have responsibility for your actions - i.e. I do not care about what is involved in getting this item to me, then why should the supplier have any responsibility. Food contamination.....buyer be very beware.  !!!

I buy based upon my criteria which may or may not be fair trade. Some fair trade products are more damaging than not buying them at all.




FelinePersuasion -> RE: Would you pay more for a product if you knew in doing so you would support a fair trade approach (4/5/2007 1:00:36 AM)

My X's dad worked for walmart, it was a nice enough job their not getting "food stamps" as you say. He made decent pay and had employe  10 percent benifits that extended to his wife and his kids and other nice things.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

The only thing I've gone to Walmart for was an eye exam because I needed it NOW. Actually I needed glasses right now, or I can't drive. Very thorough exam I say. But the people working in the optical dept are probably not getting foodstamps like the rest of them. T




SirDiscipliner69 -> RE: Would you pay more for a product if you knew in doing so you would support a fair trade approach tha (4/5/2007 7:56:06 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessDustyGold

quote:

ORIGINAL: SirDiscipliner69

Say for example a coffee shop decides to post its intentions of supporting underpaid coffee growers in country A so the customers can see it.

It outlines the awareness issue and why they are going to do it and how it will effect the prices that will get past on the the customers.

Now knowing that this deal will help a farmer buy a new tin roof and support his children through school would one not feel the moral responsibilty to try and do the right thing even though it cost a bit more from the customer who is more afluent than the farmer?

Ross
©º°¨¨°º©


No.  And here is why.  There are plenty of people who are struggling right here in the USA.  I am not going to worry about someone in a third world country until we have cleaned things up here at home. 
 
Probably one of the lamest exscuses I have heard in a long time...We should help all...not just our "own" kind.
 
 
 
That is probably why I have never "adopted" one those kids on the late night infomercials.  I would rather give supplies directly to the local Thomas J. Pappas school for the homeless here in Phoenix.  And I said supplies...not money. 
 
Nothing wrong with that but we were talking about passing on the cost of consumer prices ...not donating money or services...different subject.
 
 
But that worthy organization does not get nearly the play that the 3rd world hurricane victims get.  Or the starving farmers half way around the world. 
In most cases over half of any money that is donated is eaten up in fundraising costs.  So I don't do it.  Period.
 
Yes fundraising can be questionable at best....
 

My first moral responsiblity is to Myself and My family.  After that I can, if I have the means, extend My generosity.  It will be a long time, if ever, that I can afford to take care of the world.
 
We are talking on a day to day thing as one absorbs through a small increase in price...not a lump sum donation...


quote:

It outlines the awareness issue and why they are going to do it and how it will effect the prices that will get past on the the customers


And how much of this is not being passed on the customer but is being donated by the business owners who are doing this wonderful thing?
 
It is all being passed on to the consumer...the owner maks it happen through his or her selction of suppliers
 
  So color Me a cynic.  Their job is to bring in more business, and so they play on the  "moral responsibility", or should we say the "guilt factor".  A damn good way to market, isn't it?  Like they say...follow the money. 
 
So you are saying one can not be a socially aware business person while still making money?



So if you meet me
Have some courtesy
Have some sympathy, and some taste
Use all your well-learned politesse
Or I'll lay your soul to waste, um yeah
Pleased to meet you


Ross
©º°¨¨°º©






SirDiscipliner69 -> RE: Would you pay more for a product if you knew in doing so you would support a fair trade approach tha (4/5/2007 7:59:50 AM)

Perhaps this might clear up some stray thoughts http://www.fastcompany.com/social/2007/method/index.html
 
Defining a Social Capitalist: From its inception, the Social Capitalist Awards have defined strong performance as a combination of both social impact and organizational effectiveness. This performance is represented by five critical components: Social Impact, Aspiration & Growth, Entrepreneurship, Innovation and Sustainability. The underlying theme through all of our components is the organization’s ability to analyze tough social and organizational challenges and to craft solutions that create significant improvements over the status quo. Here is our perspective on each of these components.

Social Impact: We consider several different aspects of social impact. First, we examine the rigor and sophistication of the organization’s approach to social change: its understanding of the problem it is trying to address and the solution it is providing, and whether its performance metrics are tightly aligned with the problem it is addressing. Organizations that look for the highest-leverage, root cause solutions and are committed to assessing their progress in “moving the needle” are positioned to have the most significant social impact.

Secondly we assess the social impact created by the organization. This includes both their direct impact in providing necessary products or services (taking into account the degree of difficulty of their challenge, the depth of impact, and the breadth of the impact), as well as the organization’s ability to drive system-wide change in addressing the targeted social need. We look for organizations that can demonstrate that they are having disproportionately large impact on the problems that they address, relative to other organizations in their area or at their organizational age.

Aspiration and Growth: In addition to proving that an organization is having significant impact today, we also look for organizations that dream big, that aim to push their direct and systemic impact out into the world as far and as fast as they can. Having said that, we look for those high aspirations to be backed by a logical, achievable growth plan that recognizes relevant organizational challenges and milestones. An enormous vision that is not in any way believable or achievable is very unlikely to create tremendous impact, and the organization may waste scarce resources in the process.

Entrepreneurship: We define entrepreneurship as “the ability to do a lot with a little.” For each applicant, we look for specific evidence that the organization is able to gather and command disproportionately large resources (e.g. financial, human, partnership or intellectual assets), and thinks strategically about which resources it deploys in solving its social problem. We also seek proof that these resources are being used to their maximum potential and efficiency. Finally, we look for indications that the organization is truly entrepreneurial in nature: passionate, ambitious, creative, flexible, focused on constant improvement, and willing to hold individuals accountable for meaningful results.

Innovation: We define innovation as the organization’s ability to generate a game-changing or pattern breaking idea—either a new solution to an existing social problem or a startling new business or operational model. We also look for evidence that a culture of innovation exists within the organization—that there are processes for continuously developing significant new ideas, evaluating whether or not the organization should invest in a new idea, and plans in place to carry them out. At the highest level, a Social Capitalist winner is not a one-hit-wonder of innovation, nor does it endlessly pursue new ideas without significant results; it systematically and strategically uses innovation to maximize its social impact against its targeted problem.

Sustainability: Sustainability has two primary dimensions in our assessment. The first establishes that the organization has a strong income strategy to support the organization and its future growth plans. This means reliable, renewable funding sources that are strategically aligned with the mission and business model of the organization. We are purposefully agnostic on the subject of earned revenue. If an organization earns revenue in a way that is fully integrated with its model for creating social impact, that organization gets high marks; if the earned income seems to be an unrelated add-on business, a distraction from the social mission, we’re not impressed. In addition to sustainability from a financial perspective, we also look for indications of the general strength of the management team and board and their combined ability to anticipate challenges within the organization and or its operating environment.

Customized Approach: One of the most challenging aspects of our assessment methodology is the need to understand and take into account the unique context and choices of each individual organization and their social mission. There are no standardized, universally applicable metrics for any of our criteria that would allow an apples-to-apples comparison across all applicants. Instead, we invest significant effort to develop a sound understanding of each organization and the environment in which it operates. For each organization, the unique challenges and influences of the problem it is tackling, its chosen business model and organizational form, and its relative age or life stage all influence how we define strong performance for that organization.

Executing A Thorough and Fair Process: Our process is designed to balance the need to collect a robust, detailed set of data from each organization with a desire to make the process as open and straightforward for applicants as possible.We tap into the networks of leading thinkers in the area of social entrepreneurship via a nominating board of independent experts who suggest interesting organizations that we explicitly invite to apply. The application itself is a one-step written application that consists of a focused, personal essay from the CEO or Executive Director, a 35-question survey about strategic and organizational specifics, copies of the organization’s mission statement and board of directors list, and copies of the last two years’ audited financial statements and 990 tax forms. All of this data is analyzed and synthesized by a team of Monitor Group consultants using our assessment framework and then presented to our  selection board  for decisions.


Our selection board , a group of carefully identified external experts in the field of social entrepreneurship, chooses the final list of winners. The Board discusses the analysis and recommendations of the Monitor Group team and then draws their own conclusions about the ability of each organization to demonstrate the highest levels of performance against our Social Capitalist assessment criteria.
As a final check on our transparency, Monitor offers individually-scheduled feedback conversations to any applicant that makes a request. This helps refine our understanding and approach, as well as helping the organization maximize its learning from the time invested in their application.

Identifying Extraordinary Partnerships: For the first time, this year we decided to focus the Social Capitalist feature article on a single theme of importance and relevance to the field of social entrepreneurship. Given the increasing prominence of cross-sector initiatives, this year’s focus is on organizations that have forged unique and high impact partnerships with for-profit corporations.
All Social Capitalist winners were invited to submit a second application describing a corporate partnership. To guide us in identifying and selecting high performing partnerships, Monitor Group created a second assessment framework through consultation with  leading thinkers on this topic.

Partnerships between a for-profit and a non-profit organization had to demonstrate five key elements: Social impact (defined very similarly to our original criteria), Impact on the Non-profit, Impact on the For-profit, Innovation, and Structure and Governance. Our framework examines the impact of the partnerships from three angles – impact on the social issue targeted by the partnership (Social Impact), the strategic and operational benefits to the non-profit organization (impact on the non-profit) and the strategic, operational and financial benefits for the for-profit. In addition, we prioritized partnerships that created innovative solutions to the social issue or created innovative partnership arrangements (Innovation), which allowed the partnership to be more successful that it would have been otherwise. Finally, we looked for partnerships that were designed and structured to meet the goals of the partnership and to productively manage the relationship to maximize its benefits.


So if you meet me
Have some courtesy
Have some sympathy, and some taste
Use all your well-learned politesse
Or I'll lay your soul to waste, um yeah
Pleased to meet you


Ross
©º°¨¨°º©




GoddessDustyGold -> RE: Would you pay more for a product if you knew in doing so you would support a fair trade approach tha (4/5/2007 2:11:32 PM)

No lame excuses.  Just simple facts.
I do apologize, however,  if I misunderstood you original post regarding this.
quote:

quote:


ORIGINAL: SirDiscipliner69

Say for example a coffee shop decides to post its intentions of supporting underpaid coffee growers in country A so the customers can see it.

It outlines the awareness issue and why they are going to do it and how it will effect the prices that will get past on the the customers.

Now knowing that this deal will help a farmer buy a new tin roof and support his children through school would one not feel the moral responsibilty to try and do the right thing even though it cost a bit more from the customer who is more afluent than the farmer?

Ross
©º°¨¨°º©


I admit I am a little confused.  I read it as a special thng...Business Owner A is passing on higher costs so that people can help out Victim B in Country C.   Apparently I misinterpreted.  My question would be that if the person in Country A is that underpaid, why is his coffee more expensive?  Is  that underpaid coffee grower getting the extra money?  If so, how is he getting that extra money?  Someone, it seems, is making extra bucks since the coffee is more expensive.  Yet, the coffee grower is underpaid.  How does the support of the store owner buying this more expensive coffee help the coffee grower?  Is he underpaid because he can't sell his coffee (mayhap because he is trying to get too much money?)?  Is he underpaid because the manufacturers  and wholesale buyers are screwing him?  Sounds to Me, from your explanation, that the supplier's are making the extra money because they are selling a more expensive product to the store owner.  Is the store owner making a deal here and saying he will pay more and pass that cost onto his consumers if the supplier promises to pay more to that poor coffee grower?  (Ok, tongue comes out of cheek now)  Nut...am I still misunderstanding?  Maybe I am missing something, but I really would like a breakdown of how this more expensive coffee is now going to specifically help this underpaid coffee grower.  Help Me out here!
That said...A business person, in My opinion, should not be outlining why there are moral and socially conscious reasons he is using certain products.  Unless you want to accept that it is a marketing ploy or unless the business is specifically tied to that socially conscious ideal, such as a Green Business.  A business person, in My opinion, should be touting the better quality of his products as a reason to purchase.  I don't go along with the idea that it is right to play on people's guilt to increase sales.  That is not to say that it isn't happening, or that I am whining about it.  Just helps Me in making My decision to not support certain businesses.  So that makes it easier for Me! 
If I like the coffee or whatever product may be up for grabs, and I can afford to pay a little more, I will buy it.  But I am enough of a hard ass, that if I see that outline and someone is trying to force Me into being their idea of morally responsible by buying their products, I probably won't buy them, just because of that.  He or She just lost My business. 
Day to day?  I do not have enough disposable income to spend an extra 50 cents or a dollar each day, just so I can feel good about someone half a world away.  Perhaps I am just not easily influenced.    
I am sticking with the fact that I have a primary moral responsibility to Myself and My family.  My natural inclination, if there is anything left over, would be to help out those closer by.  That has nothing to do with "my kind".  It is My choice.  I don't want to be dictated to regarding My moral responsibilities and I will not be guilted in anything.  Because I have no guilt.
Social responsibility begins at home.  

*Edited: 
quote:

So you are saying one can not be a socially aware business person while still making money?

 

Absolutely...any business person can be as socially aware as they want to be.  Pick your program!  But don't shove it down My throat.  I want to make My decisions based on My personal budget and My personal preferences.  I don't believe this should be accepted in the business world as a standard marketing tecnique.  And that's really all it is, in the end.  You can dress it up any way you want, but if the business owner wasn't making a profit, he wouldn't do it.  Supply and demand, baby!  A business person decides on the supply and then comes up with a marketing plan to create a demand.  And people are so sheep-like, they run for it. 
*Shrug*  I prefer My good works to be done quietly and from My heart. 




meatcleaver -> RE: Would you pay more for a product if you knew in doing so you would support a fair trade approach tha (4/5/2007 2:12:46 PM)

I do buy fair trade.




meatcleaver -> RE: Would you pay more for a product if you knew in doing so you would support a fair trade approach tha (4/5/2007 2:18:43 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessDustyGold

I admit I am a little confused.  I read it as a special thng...Business Owner A is passing on higher costs so that people can help out Victim B in Country C.   Apparently I misinterpreted.  My question would be that if the person in Country A is that underpaid, why is his coffee more expensive?  


Take fair trade bananas which is one of the products I buy. They come from the Carribean and are grown by small subsistance farmers who are undercut by American multinationals in Central America who underpay their workers. I would rather pay more for my bananas knowing they are going to give an increased standard of living to that small farmer, than buy cheaper bananas knowing the profits go to fat multinationals who treat their workers like shit. Not an ideal solution because there are still poor workers being treated like shit but at least it helps someone other than fat exploiting capitalists. I buy fair trade coffee as well and anything else where there is a fiar trade alternative.




GoddessDustyGold -> RE: Would you pay more for a product if you knew in doing so you would support a fair trade approach tha (4/5/2007 2:51:30 PM)

I appreciate the *idea* of fair trade and that organization.  However, I addressed the fact that we would pay more in order to help out someone else.  SD did not mention fair trade.  He mentioned an outline by a business owner of why he was carrying particular brands and why they were more expensive, but what the feel good benefits would be to the consumer if they would purchase from that store. 
Again, if the products are readily available and I can afford it, and I like the quality, yes, I would do it.  Not because I am helping out someone else, but because it makes economic sense for Me to do so, and I appreciate the fact that the prices have not been inflated by a bunch of middlemen.  An added benefit is knowng that I am also getting My money directly to a farmer somewhere.  I honestly don;t care where he is.  Absolutley, I think the growers should make more if they can, but I will not pay more just because I feel a moral responsibility to make sure they are getting enough income.  And I am not going to spend 2 gallons of gas at almost $3 a gallon to get to the only place downtown who has the "fair trade" items I want so I can be sure some greedy person isn't getting it.  And to Me, this is something, once again, that makes no economic sense.  If the ideal is to cut out the middlemen, or most of them,  then the prices should already be fair and the same to consumers.  There are just middle men not getting paid.  Those extra funds are going directly to the growers...yes?  No?  So why should these products be more expensive?  Somebody is making an extra profit somewhere, and I do suspect is not that farmer!
See, I am just a muddle-headed flibbergibbet...Or maybe I am just not passionately, socially responsible. 
 
Please breakdown the costs for Me?  Explain to Me why these products are justifiably more expensive when the idea is to cut out the extra middleman costs in the first place and get those standard profits to the farmer instead.




SirDiscipliner69 -> RE: Would you pay more for a product if you knew in doing so you would support a fair trade approach tha (4/5/2007 3:59:29 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SirDiscipliner69

Would you pay more for a product if you knew in doing so you would support a fair trade approach that allowed money money for third world natins that grew such products?

Would a humanitarian approach be more to your liking or would you rather crush the little guy in favor of greed and lower prices?


Ross
©º°¨¨°º©


I thought I mentioned it...here I thought I was remiss and gong crazy...[image]http://www.collarchat.com/micons/m10.gif[/image]

So if you meet me
Have some courtesy
Have some sympathy, and some taste
Use all your well-learned politesse
Or I'll lay your soul to waste, um yeah
Pleased to meet you


Ross
©º°¨¨°º©




Sinergy -> RE: Would you pay more for a product if you knew in doing so you would support a fair trade approach (4/5/2007 6:05:41 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: toservez

There was once a great political cartoon in the USA Today. It was a picture of a bunch of people with pro union and buy American shirts on walking in and out of Wal-Mart.



I went down with my union local to Sam's Club and demanded our money back for our memberships.

3 news agencies covered the event, although I dont remember which channels.

Sinergy




SirDiscipliner69 -> RE: Would you pay more for a product if you knew in doing so you would support a fair trade approach tha (4/11/2007 6:14:27 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessDustyGold

I appreciate the *idea* of fair trade and that organization.  However, I addressed the fact that we would pay more in order to help out someone else.  SD did not mention fair trade.  He mentioned an outline by a business owner of why he was carrying particular brands and why they were more expensive, but what the feel good benefits would be to the consumer if they would purchase from that store. 
 
 
Accepting new concepts and perceptions makes creative people more sucessful in the realm of entrepreneurial spirit..it is just a matter of the discipline and the willingness to stick with the core values to make it sucessful for all involved.
 
 

Again, if the products are readily available and I can afford it, and I like the quality, yes, I would do it.  Not because I am helping out someone else, but because it makes economic sense for Me to do so, and I appreciate the fact that the prices have not been inflated by a bunch of middlemen. 
 
But not everything needs to be of monitary gain for ones self...the art of helping others can transcend capital gain and still evoke participation of others by setting an example.
 
 
 
An added benefit is knowng that I am also getting My money directly to a farmer somewhere.  I honestly don;t care where he is.  Absolutley, I think the growers should make more if they can, but I will not pay more just because I feel a moral responsibility to make sure they are getting enough income.  And I am not going to spend 2 gallons of gas at almost $3 a gallon to get to the only place downtown who has the "fair trade" items I want so I can be sure some greedy person isn't getting it.  And to Me, this is something, once again, that makes no economic sense.  If the ideal is to cut out the middlemen, or most of them,  then the prices should already be fair and the same to consumers.  There are just middle men not getting paid.  Those extra funds are going directly to the growers...yes?  No?  So why should these products be more expensive?  Somebody is making an extra profit somewhere, and I do suspect is not that farmer!
See, I am just a muddle-headed flibbergibbet...Or maybe I am just not passionately, socially responsible. 
 
I understand your plight..seems if more were to examine and qualify things might be a little more differnet.
 

 
Please breakdown the costs for Me?  Explain to Me why these products are justifiably more expensive when the idea is to cut out the extra middleman costs in the first place and get those standard profits to the farmer instead.
 
Perhaps the farmer might not have the same avantage raising an organic crop to that of a more science farm that has more special interest groups behind it
 
Did you read the links provided before?



Ross
©º°¨¨°º©







lockedaway -> RE: Would you pay more for a product if you knew in doing so you would support a fair trade approach tha (4/11/2007 6:32:29 AM)

No, I'm all for crushing the little guy. 

If you are into the whole fair trade concept where you pay more for a product because it is more fair for the workers to get more money, that's fine.  We had a meeting in some church where they were advocating fair trade coffee.  The coffee was triple to quadruple the price of coffees in the supermarket.  Listening to the priest, I thought what an interesting way to introduce communism into a capitalist market place.  I drank some coffee and it was slightly better than Maxwell House.  My next thought was that this was all just a bunch of B.S.

If someone can introduce a quality product at a lower price, that's what I buy.  If those smart people destroy their competition because their quality is high and their price is low then more power to them.  No one puts a gun to the heads of the workers and forces them to work for the producer.  If the workers get paid lower wages because that is what the employment market in that region of the world compels, they were smart for opening their plant there.

If you want the workers to have more of your money, that's up to you.  There are more charitable causes, however, than there are angels that can dance on the head of a pin.  If being thrifty is not as important to you as some utopian concept of raising the status of the down trodden workers by spending more of your hard earned money to get less then by all means, enjoy yourself.




lockedaway -> RE: Would you pay more for a product if you knew in doing so you would support a fair trade approach tha (4/11/2007 7:56:47 AM)

"Probably one of the lamest exscuses I have heard in a long time...We should help all...not just our "own" kind."

No, you clean up your own backyard before you clean up someone else's.  So, first you get YOUR life together, then you help get the lives of your loved ones together and then you help to elevate the people of your country first and then, perhaps, the people outside of your country next.   




SirDiscipliner69 -> RE: Would you pay more for a product if you knew in doing so you would support a fair trade approach tha (4/11/2007 5:00:59 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: lockedaway

"Probably one of the lamest exscuses I have heard in a long time...We should help all...not just our "own" kind."

No, you clean up your own backyard before you clean up someone else's.  So, first you get YOUR life together, then you help get the lives of your loved ones together and then you help to elevate the people of your country first and then, perhaps, the people outside of your country next.   


Actually I have elevated Myself through discipline...and been helping others...and your point was?

Thanks for sharing.[image]http://www.collarchat.com/micons/m10.gif[/image]

Ross
©º°¨¨°º©





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