Attitude in Submission (Full Version)

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willing2serve -> Attitude in Submission (4/15/2005 7:39:00 AM)


I am in my first D/s relationship. After exploring the lifestyle, self-discovery and being a bottom for several years, the need grew stronger yet unpolished to give my submission. I met a Dom who seemed to be the One for me, could manage my willing but “diamond in the rough” stage. However, some doubt issues i have been faced with. Whether perceived or not, it is real to me and even through extensive communication, believe what i believe and can’t understand His point of view. This issue is so important that my asking or being granted release is inevitable if something does not come to light soon. My question is, how do you stay in sub headspace when the attitude of being wronged is there? Sir says we will deal with the issues, but within the dynamics of the relationship. I do wish to continue because it was a beautiful power exchange between U/us. Long story short, having a hard time of “getting over it” so we can move forward. My behavior has changed and it causes friction. Please give me some insight of how to stay in your place of submission, when you feel wronged to be able to continue on a growing journey.

Thank you in advance for sharing your insight and wisdom.
Respectfully,
Willing2serve1



EmeraldSlave2 -> RE: I am in my first D/s relationship. After exploring the lifestyle, self-discovery and being a bottom (4/15/2005 7:54:22 AM)

This is too vague of a question to give you any significant feedback on.

If you feel truly wronged, then obviously this brings up other issues, how can you trust him not to "wrong" you again? How can you trust him to use good judgement? How do you know he will listen to you?

But I don't know what he did, what you did, why you feel wronged or what you feel wronged about which really limits any interpretation and advice I could give.

Generally- go back to the drawing board and communicate again. Answer the questions I just asked to you in a very clear and straight manner. Then, sit down and discuss it AGAIN. Discuss why you feel like you do, discuss how it's affecting your submission, discuss how it's affecting his dominance. And the tricky part- discuss solutions. Part of your job here is solution drawing- and NOT just "He has the miracle realization that he's been wrong all along, apologizes, then we kiss and have fabulous kinky sex and all is well"

If it really is SUCH a deep hard issue that nothing short of him taking full responsibility and revoking acts will work...then you need to see what brought you to that point and whether you really have reached a crossroads.

I'd love to give more specific advice, but you would have to cough up a lot more details of all sides of the issue.



ShiftedJewel -> RE: I am in my first D/s relationship. After exploring the lifestyle, self-discovery and being a bottom (4/15/2005 7:56:20 AM)

quote:

My question is, how do you stay in sub headspace when the attitude of being wronged is there?


I don't know that I fully understand your question, but if you feel that you have in some way been "wronged" then that is something that should be dealt with immediatly. To put it off says a lot of things, none of them good. There are trust issues to deal with, as well as respect issues, this is important to you and should be seen as important to him. He needs to respect your need to get this straightened out. I'm sorry I can't offer any advice on how to gloss it over and hold on to your "subspace" longer because I don't believe it should be. I believe that it should be talked about and fixed.

Jewel



Mercnbeth -> RE: I am in my first D/s relationship. After exploring the lifestyle, self-discovery and being a bottom (4/15/2005 8:22:54 AM)

quote:

having a hard time of “getting over it” so we can move forward.


you don't say how long you have been in this relationship, or how well you really know this Dom, so depending on what "it" is that you are trying to get over, LET GO of the hurt feelings that grow into resentment, unless this thing is so grievous and traumatic in nature that You will never allow yourself to forgive.....

Did he purposely run over and kill your dog in the driveway because it crapped on the carpet?
or
Did he accidently call you his ex-wife's name in the middle of a scene?

maybe not specifically, but this slave hopes you get the gist of the difference between those two examples....



darkinshadows -> RE: I am in my first D/s relationship. After exploring the lifestyle, self-discovery and being a bottom (4/15/2005 9:37:10 AM)

It seems from your words, this is effecting you, more than just a 'can I get past this' stage.

Without a full understanding of what you both believe the relationship to be, or what it is that makes you feel wronged, then it would be very difficult to reply.

But if you feel wronged, then it needs to be sorted. You cannot continue your submission freely, without being allowed to be released from your concerns. There is a big difference between waiting for a Dominant to decide the right time, and being 'kept waiting'. Just because you are in submission, does not mean that you have to keep your mouth shut. If it is effecting you this much, He should be wise enough to help you move past this. If He isn't allowing it, and it mentally and physically drains and hurts you in a non consensual way, then to be blunt, He is wrong.

I wish I could help you more. It seems that you are possibly 'nervous' that you are thinking too much, or not really wishing to make the problem a public concern. If you need to email me, please do. I am sure there are others here whos mailbox will be equally as open.

Peace and Love to you...
My thoughts are with your struggle...



willing2serve -> RE: I am in my first D/s relationship. After exploring the lifestyle, self-discovery and being a bottom (4/15/2005 4:32:40 PM)

First let me say of the ones that have just posted opinions and or advice..Emeraldslave, shiftedjewel, Mercnbeth, and Dark angel..you all have been around the forums a good while and I have learned to value and apreciate your insights.

I do realize that the "issue" itself was vague...that is due to my question really being related to....how to deal with problems whether great or small in a submissive attitude. This is not a minor problem like who left the cabinet door open, but one that I took to heart. So I tend to get on the other side of the table with my arms folded as Sir says.

I will say, Sir and I communicate quite well and the reason i decided not to post the issue itself because he and i are resolving it, but this is one of those things we will probably never agree on.

I know my question may not seem clear. Maybe I should rephrase....How as a submissive do you remain in a respectful attitude when you are angry (which is seldom), upset and hurt? I am allowed free speech and communication is open as long as i am in my place of the slash (D/s), but when I feel wronged I do want to act out in behavior that is not appropriate.

Among communication, how is the best way to temper "an attitude", which I know that I either have to calm this attitude down or there will be no D/s relationship. So in essence I am asking how do you react with your anger and do you have suggestions of how to react constructively to the relationship....

(this may be a feable attempt to ask my question again)
Respectfully,
Willing2serve1



BlkTallFullfig -> RE: I am in my first D/s relationship. After exploring the lifestyle, self-discovery and being a bo (4/15/2005 5:40:21 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: willing2serve
This is not a minor problem like who left the cabinet door open, but one that I took to heart. So I tend to get on the other side of the table with my arms folded as Sir says.
How as a submissive do you remain in a respectful attitude when you are angry (which is seldom), upset and hurt?

I don't tend to take non-personal attacks to heart. However, when I feel wronged, I will either deal with it directly by discussing until I understand that it wasn't done maliciously, or take the time to calm down until I can talk about it like an adult without bad attitude and insults.
If you trust the man, you trust he would not do harm to you, you trust that he's not doing this to break your spirit, and this is just one of those agree to disagree issues, you simply let it go, and defer to him as the Dominant/leader in the relationship. If On the other hand, if it's one of those fundamental beliefs without which commonality you cannot connect with a person, than you have to re evaluate the solidity of your relationship.
quote:

how is the best way to temper "an attitude", which I know that I either have to calm this attitude down or there will be no D/s relationship. So in essence I am asking how do you react with your anger

What works for me sometimes is, after I've talked through and gained understanding and either agree or disagree, I take a little time to stew/live with it, than let it go/let go of the uncomfortable feeling, because not forgiving and holding on to pain and anger is a waste of time, and not conducive to any relationship, but especially a D/s one in my opinion.
Hope that makes some sense to you. Good luck, M



harmony3709 -> RE: I am in my first D/s relationship. After exploring the lifestyle, self-discovery and being a bo (4/15/2005 7:18:19 PM)

Remaining in submissive "attitude" as you put it, is definitely difficult when faced with emotions and feelings that are contradictory. Although I can't say I have a lot of experience with this, I have a few times had to deal with forcing myself to behave in an appropriate manner, while what I wanted to do was yell or throw a temper tantrum, quite frankly. I don't know if that is exactly what you are going through, but what I would do is basically find my "auto pilot" and let that take over until I had a chance to vent or work through my feelings of anger or hurt.

As far as letting the feelings go, the first thing I would ask is: Do you WANT to let go of those feelings? If you don't because you for whatever reason have the need or desire to hold on to them, I think it would be nearly impossible to force yourself to do so.

Assuming you do want to let go of them and move forward, perhaps giving yourself a chance to express all the anger and hurt you are feeling will make it easier to do this. Sometimes writing them down can help a great deal, and I find that especially if I first write and then go back and read it over at least several more times, will sort of be a cleansing.

My Mentor, a wonderful Dom, once helped me let go of some real anger that I had after being in a car accident and I felt that I just could not put it behind me and get past the anger that I had for the driver that had done something so irresponsible and had almost taken my life and leaving me with a lot of pain and fear. He said that I should think of him as that driver and say to him all the things I wanted to say to her and it didn't matter what I said or how I said it. Complete freedom to unburden myself. Although at first I felt a little strange, suddenly all the anger and hurt just came to the surface and I almost couldn't stop as all the things I wanted to say just kept coming. Many of the things that came out even surprised me! Afterwards, I felt somehow very relieved and especially because I had been able to say all the mean and hurtful things I wanted to say without actually causing any hurt to anyone. (If that makes any sense.) It did help me to at least move forward.

Your situation I'm sure is different, but perhaps if you were given a chance to speak freely and were able to unburden yourself without fear of any punishment, you might be able to let go as you'd like. Perhaps even to a lifestyle friend, or try writing it down.

I read some very helpful advice in a book I recently read and have seen mentioned on the threads here (including by me) recently. It's called slavecraft and brings up dealing with the very kind of thing you brought up in this topic. While like anything you read, it may or may not be relevant to you, but you might find it helpful.

Just "letting it go" I know is not always as easy as it sounds. But it sounds as if you really want the relationship to work, so I wish you the best in being able to find a way to feel unburdened and continue in a positive relationship.

Be well,
harmony



willing2serve -> RE: I am in my first D/s relationship. After exploring the lifestyle, self-discovery and being a bo (4/15/2005 7:45:40 PM)

quote:

I will either deal with it directly by discussing until I understand that it wasn't done maliciously, or take the time to calm down until I can talk about it like an adult without bad attitude and insults


I think my salvation will be that I even though I do feel wronged it wasn't done maliciously..thank you for bringing that word to light..it was a bad judgement call....and yes..I have been stewing about 2 weeks (not usually a temper tantrum queen but this one hit the core of my beliefs), which Sir thinks i have removed myself from the relationship, which he feels is inappropriate.
quote:

Assuming you do want to let go of them and move forward, perhaps giving yourself a chance to express all the anger and hurt you are feeling will make it easier to do this.


I will say Sir has shown great patience..he has allowed me to express the anger and hurt freely...even used a couple of words I didnt think I knew [;)]...Thinking back now, I see that truly is a priviledge.

I am doing my best to "let it go" because the relationship is worth salvaging; however, i do want to be prepared for other issues that may arise. I want to learn and grow in my submission.

Thank you Harmony and Blktallfullfig



junecleaver -> RE: I am in my first D/s relationship. After exploring the lifestyle, self-discovery and being a bo (4/15/2005 8:26:28 PM)

I have no idea how to let go, but I'll watch this thread with interest.



velvetvixen -> RE: I am in my first D/s relationship. After exploring the lifestyle, self-discovery and being a bottom (4/15/2005 8:27:46 PM)

quote:

How as a submissive do you remain in a respectful attitude when you are angry (which is seldom), upset and hurt?


How do you remain in a respectful attitude with any other human being when you are angry, upset and hurt? I don't think looking at this as a "submissive mindset only" is necessary. If you throw a tantrum with others in vanilla life, then you probably will do the same with Sir. If you are generally a calm, rational girl, then I would guess that these same traits will serve you well when working through this with your Sir.

Two weeks is not long to work through something that has obviously upset you like this. Rebuilding trust takes time and work, particularly if you are in the early stages of this relationship when you are building a foundation of trust as it is. Don't be panicked and don't set a "resolution timeline", i.e. if this isn't resolved by "Date X" then I will ask for release. Give yourself and your Sir a break. There is obviously something there for both of you, so let your guard down and give him a chance to not do what ever it was again.

Much luck with this.

-J.



BlkTallFullfig -> RE: I am in my first D/s relationship. After exploring the lifestyle, self-discovery and being a bo (4/15/2005 10:48:02 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: velvetvixen
Two weeks is not long to work through something that has obviously upset you like this.

I think you should take however much time you need to work through what the issue is, but unless for me it's something I cannot get over (2 weeks or 1year), 2 weeks is a long time to feel uncomfortable and constantly angry and hurt. Don't know how spiritual you are, but consider handing over what you cannot handle to God or the universe to help you.
quote:

Give yourself and your Sir a break. There is obviously something there for both of you, so let your guard down and give him a chance to not do what ever it was again.

Yes, I agree... Do give each other a break, and experience life and the relationship fearlessly (meaning as fearlessly as you can afford to be and end up okay with yourself regardless of outcome). M



cellogrrlMK -> RE: Attitude in Submission (4/15/2005 11:07:48 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: willing2serve


I do wish to continue because it was a beautiful power exchange between U/us.



willing2serve, it WAS a beautiful power exchange and isn't any longer? I understand that your relationship with your Sir has changed. Is the power exchange an intrinsic dynamic of your relationship? Does the relationship depend upon this power exchange?

My Master and I have been through some serious issues too and through sitting down and really talking to each other, NOT as Master and slave but as two equals, discussing the issues, we were able to resolve them, work on healing our relationship, and gradually ease back into a D/s dynamic.

I think sometimes, when there is a problem that sounds as serious as yours (not knowing what it is, it just sounds pretty serious to me), the D/s part needs to go away for a bit and people need to just talk, as two equal parties.

<donning my flame retardant suit>

cello



slavedesires -> RE: Attitude in Submission (4/15/2005 11:22:12 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: willing2serve


My question is, how do you stay in sub headspace when the attitude of being wronged is there? Sir says we will deal with the issues, but within the dynamics of the relationship. My behavior has changed and it causes friction. Please give me some insight of how to stay in your place of submission, when you feel wronged to be able to continue on a growing journey.

Thank you in advance for sharing your insight and wisdom.
Respectfully,
Willing2serve1


Like others have said..very vague.
But you know, i dont understand what you might consider submission?
Obviously from this post, it is not like mine or who i am.
i dont have to think about staying in sub headspace, submissive is who i am. Period.
The dynamics of the relationship change always becasue we are 2 growing human beings who go through life every changing and adapting, to each and every thing and to each other.
How are you wronged?
Did he wrong you or do you think he wronged you?
This is the crux of your post that is most uneasy for me.
If he wronged you, how and why (i am NOT asking you to give us details) and did you speak frankly and respectfully to him of your feelings, thoughts and needs?
if not, you are wronging yourself.

Staying in the place of submission. Like i said, tis who i am. I cannot seperate it out for to do so would be to cut portions of me up and dissect them as if in biology again.
Sexual submission as a bottom is VERY different than being submissive.

now remember, this is all just my opinion.

~~shy



darkinshadows -> RE: I am in my first D/s relationship. After exploring the lifestyle, self-discovery and being a bottom (4/16/2005 6:07:16 AM)

After reading your response I can only answer like this.

Perfection does not exist. There is alot of 'dreamlike' thoughts on BDSM and Ds relationships. It isn't a fairytale, but for those that experience it, it is life. People can hold it as though it is somehow better and deeper and more important than 'just vanilla' relationships. To that, I say bull.

A Ds relationship isn't perfection. Its a relationship just like any other. There are ups and downs. Just because you are the submissive, doesn't mean you have to be anything specific, or think a certain way. The only specifics are set by the Dominant and that is what you surrender to. As a submissive or a slave, you don't have to agree. You can have different thoughts to Your Dominant. You can discuss these differences and find out the dominants reasoning if that is mutally agreeable. Explain yours to him in response. As you have said, communication in your relationship is great. Then enjoy that. It isn't negative to disagree, it just makes you human.
What is to be decided however, is that can you release your fears and opposition over to the Dominant.
It isn't giving in.
It isn't being right or wrong.
It's about letting go.

There are things that Demon insists on for me which I would be at odds at. I am allowed to say why I think something is wrong. He will listen. But ultimately, He still makes the decision and that I accept. We still disagree, we may even 'argue'. In the past, I have slammed doors and sulked, but that doesn't make me any less submissive. It doesn't make me 'come out of my submission'... It is a way of using my voice, my communication. Always it comes down to what is best, and Demon knows this. He has the patience of a saint and the love only a God would have for something he is creating.
I am allowed to disagree.
I am allowed to be myself.
I am allowed to be open with my feelings and thoughts.
And ultimately, I am allowed to accept and be what I chose to be, which is His.

Peace and Love



ShiftedJewel -> RE: I am in my first D/s relationship. After exploring the lifestyle, self-discovery and being a bottom (4/16/2005 6:34:37 AM)

quote:

Among communication, how is the best way to temper "an attitude", which I know that I either have to calm this attitude down or there will be no D/s relationship. So in essence I am asking how do you react with your anger and do you have suggestions of how to react constructively to the relationship....


I would suggest that before you let it blossom into full blown resentment, that you first look deep inside yourself and try and find the reason behind the anger, analyze and try to decide why that particular thing makes you angry or upset.

As I have said before in a previous post, you need to be able to look at a current situation and understand if you are reacting to it because of “baggage”. That is the first step to controlling the emotion that it causes. We all have to reach a point where we can look at something that is happening in our lives and admit that it is only the baggage that is causing us to be uncomfortable with it. We then have to decide whether or not this circumstance is different, the person is different, the reasoning behind it is different, and if so, shouldn’t our reaction be different? Getting to the root of the "anger" or "resentment" is generally the only thing that can help keep it from happening again and again. If it is something that, no matter what, you are going to have problems letting go of then it's something that you need to let your partner know and explain it so that they fully understand that.

I think a lot of people would be surprised at what we are capable of getting past once we take the time to see it for what it truly is... I know I was. And I also am not looking at it through rose colored glasses either, there are just some buttons that can't be fixed, but with open communication they can at the very least be avoided.

Jewel



EmeraldSlave2 -> RE: I am in my first D/s relationship. After exploring the lifestyle, self-discovery and being a bottom (4/16/2005 9:11:19 AM)

Yeah what everyone else has said is great.

I STILL think there's something going on not fully being shared on both sides which could easily change the perspective we have here.

But generally, if you just remember who you are, what you committed to and why you committed to it, work it out together.



Oumae -> RE: Attitude in Submission (4/16/2005 9:57:03 AM)

To play devil's advocate..... are you looking for him to put you back into your sub place?

I've seen it happen before, where people have forgotten that as humans no-one is perfect, a confusion can set in about the Dom/me getting something wrong or the sub questioning it and often for them after a disagreement and talking it through, a firm manner or a hard play session has put both back where they feel comfortable.

Oumae



willing2serve -> RE: Attitude in Submission (4/16/2005 3:25:51 PM)

quote:

I am allowed to say why I think something is wrong. He will listen. But ultimately, He still makes the decision and that I accept. We still disagree, we may even 'argue'. In the past, I have slammed doors and sulked, but that doesn't make me any less submissive
.

Okay, this is more on the line that I am thinking...Normally I convey my thoughts bettter than this effort,but instead of giving full disclosure of the problem..I am trying to learn how to act respectfully in a major disagreement with something that is a personal staple belief.

The matter of the issue wont be changed. We will NEVER agree on it; however through communication he says he can see how I view things and understands why I feel wronged, he still contends was not his intentions, but with that said, he has admitted now knowing me better, he would have not handle things in the same light.

So the issue itself, we have to agree to disagree...however...to learn how to better handle this type of disagreement I am trying to understand how to disagree respectfully. To not undermine his position as a Dominant.

I love the fact Dark angel used the word "argue". She is correct sometimes we do get a dreamy version of a D/s relationship and in all actuality I think Dominants tend to think they will never be disagreed with and all their actions are right in a dreamy view of D/s. My biggest concern is to remain respectful.

quote:

In the past, I have slammed doors and sulked, but that doesn't make me any less submissive.


Oh this is what I needed to hear. This is what I meant by attitude in submission. How was it handled...How did the Dominant react? I am learning to deal with handling issues within the D/s dynamics. When I use the term dynamics, in my relationship, control and obedience is our foundation. This is how our dynamics are programmed. So in an argument or disagreement those two things must stay in order. I truly know no relationship is perfect but I must strive to maintain our purpose.

quote:

If he wronged you, how and why (i am NOT asking you to give us details) and did you speak frankly and respectfully to him of your feelings, thoughts and needs?
if not, you are wronging yourself.


I truly appreciate what slavedesires says here.....I did speak frankly and not as respectfully therefore not staying within our defined roles. So I did wrong myself in creating havoc in a relationship that gives me so much peace. Turning it upside down, not being obedient and taking back control. I have to say, I am not use to dealing with anger either...Very seldom does something rock my boat, so dealing with anger in a respectful manner while honoring my Sir was difficult. Just want to be better prepared on how to handle my actions if another situation arises to this degree.

quote:

willing2serve, it WAS a beautiful power exchange and isn't any longer? I understand that your relationship with your Sir has changed. Is the power exchange an intrinsic dynamic of your relationship? Does the relationship depend upon this power exchange?


Very interesting...the reason I used "was" is because out of this situation our power exchange like I said previously is His control for my Obedience (that works so well for us.) So it does change our level of interaction when this issue was brought to light...he wasnt in control and I certainly wasnt obedient during getting my points across.

quote:

I think sometimes, when there is a problem that sounds as serious as yours (not knowing what it is, it just sounds pretty serious to me), the D/s part needs to go away for a bit and people need to just talk, as two equal parties.

quote:


NOT as Master and slave but as two equals, discussing the issues, we were able to resolve them, work on healing our relationship, and gradually ease back into a D/s dynamic.


This is an interesting perspective...We did talk as two people on the same equal level after much of the hurt and anger was vented...but is it safe in the future of the relationship to step in and out of the dynamics? How will this effect the relationship long term?

Sir is very insistent on staying within the dynamics to discuss any issue. If i am not showing respect allowing him control and giving my obedience there is no lines of communication open until I can get into my agreed place in the relationship. If I do stay within those bounds our communication lines are completely open as long as need be to resolve things. Here you say, stepping out of the dynamics temporarily may help serious problems. Who is in control to to take the first step out of the dynamics? If it is me, is that topping from the bottom? I did step out of our dynamics in anger and wasn't well received.

quote:

To play devil's advocate..... are you looking for him to put you back into your sub place?


Honestly I was looking for him to help me deal with the hurt and anger within my sub place, but didnt allow him to.. again I took the control by my actions. I still think this is something I need to learn for myself, a form of self discipline instead of relying on him to firmly remind me of my place. So this is the reason for this post...to see how other submissives handle "attitude in submission".

Another interesting topic would be how do Dominants deal with angry subs.

quote:

I've seen it happen before, where people have forgotten that as humans no-one is perfect, a confusion can set in about the Dom/me getting something wrong or the sub questioning it and often for them after a disagreement and talking it through, a firm manner or a hard play session has put both back where they feel comfortable.


As we are still working through this I do believe a firm manner or hard play session could put you more comfortable in your position of the relationship. This would be a way to difuse just a bit to allow more resolution of the matter. This may be a form of a temporary fix to the "attitude in submission"



cellogrrlMK -> RE: Attitude in Submission (4/17/2005 8:11:05 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: willing2serve

quote:


This is an interesting perspective...We did talk as two people on the same equal level after much of the hurt and anger was vented...but is it safe in the future of the relationship to step in and out of the dynamics? How will this effect the relationship long term?

Sir is very insistent on staying within the dynamics to discuss any issue. If i am not showing respect allowing him control and giving my obedience there is no lines of communication open until I can get into my agreed place in the relationship. If I do stay within those bounds our communication lines are completely open as long as need be to resolve things. Here you say, stepping out of the dynamics temporarily may help serious problems. Who is in control to to take the first step out of the dynamics? If it is me, is that topping from the bottom? I did step out of our dynamics in anger and wasn't well received




Hi willing2serve,

It was Master's suggestion that we step out of the D/s dynamic to try to work out our problems. He felt that I was not speaking completely freely to him out of respect, and he was correct.

In my opinion (and it's only my opinion [:)]) sometimes real communication isn't going to occur if the D/s dynamic is always in place; in our situation I did not feel that I could speak freely and express my unhappiness (and anger at times) because it would not be respectful. Since I don't know your situation and am not going to elaborate on ours I will say that there was no other way for us. The relationship would not have survived without it and I am glad Master had the confidence in himself and in me to suggest that we step out for a moment and examine everything the way we did.

I just hope that you and your Sir will be able to find a way to deal with the issue at hand in a way that will be beneficial to you both. [:)]

cello



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