RE: Overuse of a safeword?

RE: Overuse of a safeword? (Full Version)

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MizSuz -> RE: Overuse of a safeword? (4/20/2005 9:57:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SirKenin I will not take a "no" for an answer. I am quite insistent that My sub-in-training use her safeword to stop any play. However, she appears to be overusing it and it is starting to bother Me. I tell her not to get changed yet when she asks, she states her safeword and goes ahead and does it anyways. If she does not want to be hugged or touched, out comes the safeword. If there is anything that is contrary to what she wants she uses the safeword. To me there are three acceptable uses for the safeword. 1. To protect the property (meaning the submissive is in imminent danger and needs to communicate same to the dominant); 2. To end the interaction; 3. Because the bottom let me know they were getting close to safing and I pushed anyway. If the safeword is used and it's not for protecting the property (i.e. an arm is about to come out of socket, etc.) then the interaction stops. That doesn't mean that the submissive does what they want to do and the rest of the night or day goes on as it would have otherwise, it means the interaction stops. End of the night. End of the play. End of the scene. Put your clothes on and go home (alone). We'll talk about it in a few days when we've both got some distance (and I agree with Voltare that the discussion should be outside of roles). But in that moment the interaction stops. Of course, I also insist on being given information prior to the need for a safeword, unless it's for safety sake. This would be #3 above. Meaning, if you are safing because you can't take what I'm doing then I should have already been given information that lets me know that you were approaching the point of using your safeword. Some folks use "yellow" before "red." I always make sure to impress upon the submissive that the use of yellow is expected and preferred before the use of red (or whatever your safeword is). Meaning, if you get to red and I never heard a yellow then you werent keeping up your end of the communication agreement. Yellow doesn't mean I'll stop, check in or change a damned thing (necessarily) it means if I continue doing what I'm doing you're going to have to safe. At that point the option of how to continue is still at my leisure and best judgement. Safe over whether to get dressed or not and you'll find yourself going home - alone. quote: ORIGINAL: SirKenin I am just not sure if that is the acceptable use for it or not. That's up to you, really. It wouldn't work for me. quote: ORIGINAL: SirKenin I did bring it upon Myself for not accepting no for an answer, this is true. However, as no can often mean yes I prefer the safeword. That way there is never any room for misunderstandings. I know exactly what it means and I always honor it immediately. It sounds like you may know what it means to you, but perhaps you are not both on the same page about it. Figure out what is acceptable to you and then discuss with her what her objectives and understanding of the use of the safeword is. You may find that you're using the same terminology but your definitions are different. I'll refrain from using the 'topping from the bottom' analogy as I'm sure, without having read this entire thread, that it's probably been said to death already. It's an easy conclusion to jump to based on what you've posted here and could very well be accurate, or not. Easier to assume that communication and definitions are out of sync, then try to bring them into sync, rather than place blame so early in the game. I suspect you may be trying to D/s train someone who is looking for S/m play. They are not necessarily compatible objectives. Good luck with it.

BlkTallFullfig -> RE: Overuse of a safeword? (4/20/2005 10:40:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SirKenin I am wondering why that can not apply to this situation as well? Why does everything have to be "she desires communication in this matter, so this relationship is not for you"? That sounds crazy to Me, considering all I know about BDSM, which admittedly is no wealth of information. I think you should forget BDSM for the time being, and work on how you two get along on a day to day basis, BEFORE moving in together. I'm all for hot and heavy when everything is working well, but things are not all working well between you two; first there was the power struggle over money matters, which took a lot, than there is the safewording out of hugging. I think that perhaps the convenience of this relationship is clouding the potential problems within it... Your posts sound to me like you're submitting to her; don't get me wrong, if you trust her that way, and are comfortable bending over backwards to keep the peace, than please submit away; the only problem I find is that you entered a relationship as the dominant, and lack of trust and communication are seeming to put you on the bottom=Not good in my view. quote: Why can W/we not brainstorm in this thread for a solution? Why can My partner and I not communicate and talk through solutions? Why can W/we not, as a collective, agree that the potential is there that controlling when she cleans may be a limit? Why can it not be a limit that she does not want to be pounced on the second she walks in the door? I doubt you pounced on her like a dog, but if you did, it should have been your prerogative, and there are nicer ways to end a hug when one is overwhelmed. I'm not saying you shouldn't brainstorm... I'm simply saying that you don't sound to me to have a move in relationship yet. quote: she is obedient and subservient in so many areas. W/we share many of the same interests and goals. she really wants to grow and learn. W/we are both equally attracted to each other and very much "in love". Please don't take this the wrong way, but I'm not convinced of this given the issues you've already run into. When I'm madly in love, I don't cringe when my man comes at me, though that could be just me. Please don't substitute my judgement for your own; my craziness only works for me, and I'm always prepared to deal with the consequences of my actions weather they lead to partnership or broken heart. So, I will wish you luck, and hope things work for you two if you're in Love. M

ProtagonistLily -> RE: Overuse of a safeword? (4/21/2005 7:08:32 AM)
quote: Only thing is this. Can a vanilla relationship work with a Dom with high expectations such as mine? Can I dumb them down at all to pursue a normal relationship? Not that I think I will have to, but it is a thought It clearly depends on what your expectations are. If you are talking about a Power Exchange relationship, then she certainly should be clear on your expectations and have some of her own. If not, I can't tell you. BTW, "Taking you Higher"...I'm curious; higher than what? Lily

SirKenin -> RE: Overuse of a safeword? (4/21/2005 8:41:28 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ProtagonistLily quote: Only thing is this. Can a vanilla relationship work with a Dom with high expectations such as mine? Can I dumb them down at all to pursue a normal relationship? Not that I think I will have to, but it is a thought It clearly depends on what your expectations are. If you are talking about a Power Exchange relationship, then she certainly should be clear on your expectations and have some of her own. If not, I can't tell you. I have expectations of obedience and acceptance as MizSuz very aptly pointed out. It appears that goal is being achieved, although W/we have had some obstacles to overcome along the way (I did not expect everything to go flawlessly. I knew there would be hiccups). W/we have had a chance to talk very candidly about each other's expectations actually. W/we still do, but it is going very well. I think there is a lot of hope there for a long, fruitful relationship as long as W/we both keep it up. quote: BTW, "Taking you Higher"...I'm curious; higher than what? Lily That's a tagline from My MSN originally. It's a line special for My honey. she knows what it means. [;)]

onceburned -> RE: Overuse of a safeword? (4/21/2005 2:30:30 PM)
SirKenin, at least three times in this thread you have written that the attraction between you is primarily vanilla. And that if push comes to shove, you would keep her anyways even without D/s. You have stated that she is very young, and totally new to D/s. To me, this makes it sound as if she has a lot of growing to do... which might take years. Perhaps her interest in being sub will continue and even deepen, but right now she sounds overwhelmed and needs a time-out. Perhaps you might want to consider putting the D/s on hiatus until the move is finished. But perhaps you also need to think about if your relationship did turn purely vanilla... permanently. How would you satisify your need for D/s? Would your solution be acceptable to her? I can say that being in a vanilla marriage with an uninterested wife is frustrating for both parties. Maybe this is something for the two of you to talk about as well.

SirKenin -> RE: Overuse of a safeword? (4/21/2005 6:27:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: onceburned SirKenin, at least three times in this thread you have written that the attraction between you is primarily vanilla. And that if push comes to shove, you would keep her anyways even without D/s. My attraction was initially vanilla, yes. As I get to know her and W/we delve into the finer points, the attraction has grown to include D/s or maybe even M/s, which has Me very excited. It turns out that she was attracted to Me in part because I do take control. Very cool. [8D] However, if push comes to shove I have every desire to maintain a vanilla relationship. But.... And read on. quote: You have stated that she is very young, and totally new to D/s. To me, this makes it sound as if she has a lot of growing to do... which might take years. Perhaps her interest in being sub will continue and even deepen, but right now she sounds overwhelmed and needs a time-out. she is actually incredibly mature for her age. It stuns Me on a regular basis the things she comes out with for a 22 year old. she is in her infancy when it comes to the lifestyle, but she has shown great eagerness and aptitude and has grown in leaps and bounds. It is very impressive and something I really like about working with a sub of this caliber. There are no preconceived notions or bad habits that you have to get out of them. quote: Perhaps you might want to consider putting the D/s on hiatus until the move is finished. But perhaps you also need to think about if your relationship did turn purely vanilla... permanently. How would you satisify your need for D/s? Would your solution be acceptable to her? I can say that being in a vanilla marriage with an uninterested wife is frustrating for both parties. Maybe this is something for the two of you to talk about as well. I will think about putting the D/s on hold. That might just be an idea, except for the fact that it is so ingrained in Me that I do it without even thinking about it. That is what is going to cause the problem in a vanilla marriage, if any. It is natural for Me. It is the way I am, the way I have grown up. I do it in My sleep to everyone without even thinking about it. This is the primary reason My marriage was destroyed. I simply can not change it. This bothers Me when I think of trying to maintain a vanilla marriage. I do not feel complete without a sub. I feel that something is missing. I do not feel fully satisfied with life. It took me over two decades to figure out what that was. I am not sure I like the idea of letting that go. I am wondering, though, if it would in fact be possible if need be? Could a woman that likes a man that takes a control but does not want a Dom still coexist with a natural Dom? I seriously do not think that this will even be an issue. Everything is pointing to the contrary, but it is still worth thinking about it.

siamsa24 -> RE: Overuse of a safeword? (4/21/2005 6:45:10 PM)
quote: I will think about putting the D/s on hold. That might just be an idea, except for the fact that it is so ingrained in Me that I do it without even thinking about it. That is what is going to cause the problem in a vanilla marriage, if any. It is natural for Me. It is the way I am, the way I have grown up. I do it in My sleep to everyone without even thinking about it. This is the primary reason My marriage was destroyed. I simply can not change it. Maybe I am totally confused on this. You have said several times throughout this thread that you would want to be with her anyway even if it was totally vanilla. Maybe I'm misreading something, but I don't know. Could you explain this to me?

SirKenin -> RE: Overuse of a safeword? (4/21/2005 6:54:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: siamsa24 quote: I will think about putting the D/s on hold. That might just be an idea, except for the fact that it is so ingrained in Me that I do it without even thinking about it. That is what is going to cause the problem in a vanilla marriage, if any. It is natural for Me. It is the way I am, the way I have grown up. I do it in My sleep to everyone without even thinking about it. This is the primary reason My marriage was destroyed. I simply can not change it. Maybe I am totally confused on this. You have said several times throughout this thread that you would want to be with her anyway even if it was totally vanilla. Maybe I'm misreading something, but I don't know. Could you explain this to me? Yeah I would want that. My first and foremost attraction to her is vanilla. However, at the same time, I would have an emptiness that could not be filled. The thing is, she still likes a man to be in control, even if she ever changed her mind about being a sub or slave, however it works out. This is great, because that would fit in with the way I am to a degree. My previous marriage was destroyed because I was dominating and controlling before I ever found out who I was. she did not like it at all apparently and cites it as the number one reason for our divorce. However this one does not seem to mind. This chat about not being able to make the D/s component work got Me to thinking. Is it in fact possible, in My exact circumstances, to make something work without the D/s component? When I was attracted to her originally I never felt the D/s component would exist. I figured I would just live without it and see if she was generally compatible with who I was. Thus I opened up to her completely, without hiding behind a facade, and was completely honest with exactly who I was. This led to the more interesting conversation about D/s, and the fact that she wanted to do what it takes to please Me, and thus it went on from there. So I ask. Notwithstanding that a portion of Me would be missing, is it in fact possible for a natural Dom to maintain a vanilla relationship with a girl that likes a man that is in control?

AAkasha -> RE: Overuse of a safeword? (4/22/2005 5:36:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SirKenin quote: ORIGINAL: siamsa24 quote: I will think about putting the D/s on hold. That might just be an idea, except for the fact that it is so ingrained in Me that I do it without even thinking about it. That is what is going to cause the problem in a vanilla marriage, if any. It is natural for Me. It is the way I am, the way I have grown up. I do it in My sleep to everyone without even thinking about it. This is the primary reason My marriage was destroyed. I simply can not change it. Maybe I am totally confused on this. You have said several times throughout this thread that you would want to be with her anyway even if it was totally vanilla. Maybe I'm misreading something, but I don't know. Could you explain this to me? Yeah I would want that. My first and foremost attraction to her is vanilla. However, at the same time, I would have an emptiness that could not be filled. The thing is, she still likes a man to be in control, even if she ever changed her mind about being a sub or slave, however it works out. This is great, because that would fit in with the way I am to a degree. My previous marriage was destroyed because I was dominating and controlling before I ever found out who I was. she did not like it at all apparently and cites it as the number one reason for our divorce. However this one does not seem to mind. This chat about not being able to make the D/s component work got Me to thinking. Is it in fact possible, in My exact circumstances, to make something work without the D/s component? When I was attracted to her originally I never felt the D/s component would exist. I figured I would just live without it and see if she was generally compatible with who I was. Thus I opened up to her completely, without hiding behind a facade, and was completely honest with exactly who I was. This led to the more interesting conversation about D/s, and the fact that she wanted to do what it takes to please Me, and thus it went on from there. So I ask. Notwithstanding that a portion of Me would be missing, is it in fact possible for a natural Dom to maintain a vanilla relationship with a girl that likes a man that is in control? If you are hardwired for kink and you know it and learned from a previous bad marriage that it's a sticking point, I would say no. Early in relationships, when everything is exciting and new, people are willing to make all kinds of sacrifices. They say, "Oh, well I can live without that..." and then 5 years down the road, they realize they were wrong. It's very easy to say you would "settle" when a couple is in infatuation stage. Someone who likes a controlling man and a man who is into BDSM, to me, are two very different things that happen to intersect in a few areas. You might think right now that the "area of intersection" is all you will need -- forever. She may be willing to go further outside of her comfort zone -- for now. But face the reality that as the relationship moves on, there are chances she might pull away from some of those areas, and at the same time you will find you want more. I can address the vanilla trait she seems to have of "liking a man in control..." somewhat from the other side of the coin. There are SO MANY male subs that confess to me they married a woman who was not a femdom but "really liked to call the shots" or "had a dominating personality" and they thought that would be all they need, or at least lead to what they needed. What they found out was the exact opposite. What vanilla "traits" they had for control/needing control were not necessarily related to kink but related to specific areas in their relationship -- nothing more, nothing less. This might shed light on the difficulties you are already having with her pulling back in some areas when you exercise control, yet welcoming it in others. Her personality might be wired in a way that she likes conditional submission -- in certain areas of her life, and/or when she's in the mood. To think you can change that/increase it to make her "more submissive" would be extremely ambitious. Akasha

SirKenin -> RE: Overuse of a safeword? (4/22/2005 11:12:30 PM)
hmmm. Some serious thoughts for some serious consideration. I can not do it after a night at the bar for fet night. I will have to ponder your very worthy considerations tomorrow.

SirKenin -> RE: Overuse of a safeword? (4/23/2005 10:33:50 AM)
Aakasha, that whole post was very insightful. Particularly the last paragraphs. I will keep a very close eye on that. I will also actively pursue the D/s aspect. I have been pushing her the last couple of days to see how she reacts under pressure and for the most part she did Me really proud. I think it will be just fine. I am really excited about the prospects.

SirDiscipliner69 -> RE: Overuse of a safeword? (7/7/2005 1:24:39 PM)
I like having them use the safeword "pizza"..when a safeword is used all is stopped... some understand the red and yellow better...... Use of safeword means "stop" in My book

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