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Advice on a BDSM group - 4/8/2007 2:10:28 PM

katzschen

Posts: 385
Joined: 11/10/2006
From: Greenville, SC
Status: offline

Hello all,
I apologise if this topic has been discussed before, but I don't have the time I wish I did to search through the archives. We are trying to create a new local BDSM group and was wondering if anyone had any advice or good resource links they would be willing to share. We are specifically looking for advice on our general rules, but will listen to any advice given and check out any resources given. Thank you in advance.

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RE: Advice on a BDSM group - 4/8/2007 2:38:25 PM

MasterFireMaam

Posts: 5587
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
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Two words: benevolant dictatorship. This gets things done in a timely manner. Be sure to actively practice the benevolant part. Listen to what the members have to say, incoporate what they want if possibly...but ultimately, have just one, two or at most three, people make the decisions. The downside to this is that the group gets built around this structure/person.

Don't financially support the group out of your own pocket (if your are the leaders). Dues and fees for events are necessary. Pot luck works best for food.

While Bilaws may not be necessary, written rules about what is and isn't acceptable behavior are important. Put it in writing somewhere that prostitution, for example, isn't tolerated within the group.

If you want Bylaws, steal a blueprint from another group, then fix them to reflect your group. No need to reinvent the wheel.

The group I helped found even has a written policy about how Dominants should treat other Dominants. The group is a support group for Fem Doms. We felt it was important to have this document in order to really solidify that we're a Sisterhood.

Master Fire

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Post #: 2

RE: Advice on a BDSM group - 4/8/2007 3:20:32 PM

SimplyMichael

Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
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Jay Wiseman coined a term I love, Organizational Masochism...people who run groups must be masochists because of the amount of abuse that is heaped on them.

MasterFire gave you some great advice.

Running a group is both rewarding and a major pain in the ass. Your biggest problem isn't rules for safety it will be in dealing with control freaks and egos.

Email lists can help ONLY if they are well moderated and flaming and being an asshole isn't allowed.

Perhaps the MOST important advice I can give is that as the leaders, YOU create the culture inside the group. How YOU behave will be modeled by those entering. Rise above petty bickering, ignore minor slights, nurture rather than criticise and your group will come to reflect that. Sadly, too many groups don't.

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Post #: 3

RE: Advice on a BDSM group - 4/8/2007 4:31:20 PM

TheHeretic

Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline

      I'm a bit humbled, stepping up behind these two, Katzchen, but I must offer a heretical thought. Trolls need to be ejected promptly (no, not you, Fukin). They show up in R/T too. No mercy.

    Benevolent Dictatorship!!!

   It would have been very easy for the Wife and I to drift away after finding each other, but the commitment to friendship and education has kept us involved. Don't give drama a chance to take over.

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RE: Advice on a BDSM group - 4/8/2007 4:39:48 PM

thetammyjo

Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
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If you want more egalitarian leadership, I highly recommend you have formal membership and officers elected with time limits on holding office. If things are set up this way from the get go, things can run smoothly. I recommend 1 year with 1 year off or in a new position. Have benefits for those who help at any level -- discounts, special t-shirts, even a card can help with burn out.

If you do want to run it more as a dictatorship, don't be surprised if you see several small groups spring up over time around other people. As long as you can all continue to get along, great.

Oh, and don't let volunteers run things because no matter how much their heart is in it, others will find ways to make them feel like crap and you'll get high levels of burn out. Folks love to not volunteer then bitch about everything.

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RE: Advice on a BDSM group - 4/8/2007 4:40:47 PM

SweetAndInnocent

Posts: 59
Joined: 4/17/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterFireMaam

Two words: benevolant dictatorship. This gets things done in a timely manner. Be sure to actively practice the benevolant part. Listen to what the members have to say, incoporate what they want if possibly...but ultimately, have just one, two or at most three, people make the decisions. The downside to this is that the group gets built around this structure/person.

Don't financially support the group out of your own pocket (if your are the leaders). Dues and fees for events are necessary. Pot luck works best for food.

While Bilaws may not be necessary, written rules about what is and isn't acceptable behavior are important. Put it in writing somewhere that prostitution, for example, isn't tolerated within the group.

If you want Bylaws, steal a blueprint from another group, then fix them to reflect your group. No need to reinvent the wheel.

The group I helped found even has a written policy about how Dominants should treat other Dominants. The group is a support group for Fem Doms. We felt it was important to have this document in order to really solidify that we're a Sisterhood.

Master Fire

I have to disagree with this statement. I have seen the type of group build, and fail, and rebuild, and fail repeatedly here. Our current group, of which I am a board member, has lasted because of it's democratic running. I strongly advice against an organization that is built around one or two people's desires.

Edited to add: I agree with EVERYTHING else that was said, especially the financial side.

< Message edited by SweetAndInnocent -- 4/8/2007 4:41:28 PM >

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Post #: 6

RE: Advice on a BDSM group - 4/8/2007 6:05:45 PM

MstrssPassion

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From: West Palm Beach, FL
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if you haven't the time to make a few quick keystrokes on google then you definitely don't have the leisure of time to organize, promote, sustain, arrange, book, coordinate & all of the other fine details needed to run a successful group.

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RE: Advice on a BDSM group - 4/8/2007 6:15:52 PM

FukinTroll

Posts: 6277
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From: Under a bridge
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

I'm a bit humbled, stepping up behind these two, Katzchen, but I must offer a heretical thought. Trolls need to be ejected promptly (no, not you, Fukin). They show up in R/T too. No mercy.

Whew!! I was in a panic for second.

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RE: Advice on a BDSM group - 4/8/2007 6:54:54 PM

SimplyMichael

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Okay, let me add a bit of a proviso. If the local scene is large, I would agree with having a formal board but I imagine that this is a small group in a small area and as such, too many cooks will spoil the soup.

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Post #: 9

RE: Advice on a BDSM group - 4/8/2007 8:41:37 PM

Argentopal

Posts: 379
Joined: 12/12/2005
From: Central Texas / Hill Country
Status: offline

Two words: benevolant dictatorship.

[/quote]
I have to disagree with this statement. I have seen the type of group build, and fail, and rebuild, and fail repeatedly here. Our current group, of which I am a board member, has lasted because of it's democratic running. I strongly advice against an organization that is built around one or two people's desires.

..............
It isn't about one or two people's DESIRES. It is about someone stepping up and taking responsibility. Argent and I run one of the oldest continually running sigs in our area - this August will mark our 9th anniversary. It is a benevolent dictatorship. When we need to make a change or a decision we do any of the following: 1) email or call another couple in the group and discuss it 2)discuss it in a meeting 3)ask opinions via group email BUT he and I make the final decisions based on the advice/opinions we have recieved.

Our group is limited in size and specific in scope but then it is a SIG, so our special interest limits our size to some degree. We have seen larger groups flounder under dictatorships but we have also seen them flounder under boards who were elected because a few people gave great parties but were terrible community leaders. We have seen boards waste and squander monies, ignore the real desires of the members, and ultimately come precariously close to falling asunder. It takes committment, dedication, honesty and a healthy respect for the community at large to run any group whether it is a small dictatorship or an appointed board or an elected board. But it can be done and the rewards are worth the work.

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RE: Advice on a BDSM group - 4/8/2007 10:52:32 PM

katzschen

Posts: 385
Joined: 11/10/2006
From: Greenville, SC
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MstrssPassion

if you haven't the time to make a few quick keystrokes on google then you definitely don't have the leisure of time to organize, promote, sustain, arrange, book, coordinate & all of the other fine details needed to run a successful group.

With all due respect, I think you have misunderstood me a little bit. I know that I did not mention this, but I meant to say that I did not have the time at that moment, as I was about to leave for dinner with another couple. Also, the archives of this group are very large, and to find a topic that is specifically what I need may take a very long time. Not to mention, it may have responses that are outdated. I have seen a lot of the posts of people who are active on this forum (regulars, if you will), and typically like the advice they give. Also, I have already searched on Google and found some great resources, but I still need help with one thing in particular and would also, in the process, get any other advice and take it all into consideration.

Let me go ahead and explain exactly what I need advice on most specifically, as well as the preferred format of the group we are trying to create, so that those reading this post can better understand it and give advice more specific to it.

We are a group of friends who have gotten quite sick and tired of some drama and politics involved with another group. We understand that this will happen with any group, to some degree, but want to keep that to a minimum as much as possible. We have decided to start the group as a small, informal group, mostly just dinners with others and possibly other things. Very laid-back. At the moment, we are not going to have any by-laws or leadership per se. Yes, I will be managing things, but I will be getting input from everyone. Anyway, what I need advice on the most is a set of general rules to follow (such as not outing other members in public, respecting others equally unless they are your submissive/dominant kind of thing, behaving appropriately at restaurants, no trolling, etc. etc.) and was wondering if anyone knew of a good basic outline of these types of rules. I am having trouble with wording a few of these, and also want to make sure I don't leave anything out.

I would also like any and all advice on keeping this group drama-free and making it successful, with the hopes that it will continue to grow (and when it does, and the need for a form of leadership occurs, we will definitely put that in to place), but keeping it from getting out of hand in the meantime.

Thank you all very much for the replies I have already received, as well as all future replies.

-katzschen

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RE: Advice on a BDSM group - 4/9/2007 12:01:33 AM

katzschen

Posts: 385
Joined: 11/10/2006
From: Greenville, SC
Status: offline

Another question:

In dealing with the possibility drama from other groups (as this group was created due to being tired of said drama with a few members who run another group), how do we keep the drama to a minimum between the two groups? That is, how do we show that the group has not necessarily been created to spite them? How do we show that all we want is a relaxing environment where everyone who is involved can feel free from having to deal with that kind of drama? I mean, how do we keep them from hating and/or "badmouthing" our group? From the behaviour I have seen from said certain members, this is a very real fear that I have, that they will try to put down our group or bring the drama to our group. Does anyone have any advice on this as well?

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RE: Advice on a BDSM group - 4/9/2007 12:12:59 AM

hisannabelle

Posts: 1992
Joined: 12/3/2006
From: Tallahassee, FL, USA
Status: offline

greetings katzschen and everyone,

as far as the democracy v. benevolent dictatorship thing, i've been a part of non-bdsm groups, one that practiced democracy, one that practiced benevolent dictatorship. the first one is still running but has very long periods of stagnancy (which was what drove me away from the board of directors after a year of being on it) due to disagreement and lack of focus, the second one is about to fold because only one or two people really had the energy/time/gumption to run it and so it revolved around their work for the group...now that they no longer have the time/energy/gumption, it ain't happening. i don't think either way is better, really...i feel like if i were to be part of a group's leadership again, i would rather be part of a benevolent dictatorship than a democracy, just because i had so many bad experiences with stagnancy. but really it just depends on the people.

the democratic group i mentioned earlier was one thing when i originally started, then broke from the international community it was a member of and became something completely different. those of us who were still part of the same vision of the international community started our own group. for a while, we pretty much steered clear of the other group, but now we practice in their space and get along great. there was a lot of drama before the break, but after the break, once we'd all gotten over it and been out of each other's hair for awhile, things were tons better. the only way to really deal with drama is to do the best you can on an individual level to minimize it. be an example. speak highly of the other group, even if you have to make it clear that their way wasn't right for you...maybe it will be right for other people. welcome people from the other group into yours if they want to be a part, and make it clear that people can be a member of both groups and that your group won't tolerate its members denigrating the other group, or denigrating people who choose to belong to both. ultimately, you can't control how the other group acts - you can only resolve to act in a mature, responsible manner, and hope people are able to recognize that.

just some suggestions gleaned from my experience in non-bdsm community leadership, but stuff that i think applies to all group situations. good luck to you.

annabelle.

< Message edited by hisannabelle -- 4/9/2007 12:14:13 AM >

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RE: Advice on a BDSM group - 4/9/2007 4:27:56 AM

michaels4evr

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Joined: 8/8/2006
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i second what hisannabelle said in terms of interacting with the other group..it would also be a good idea to try not to schedule events on the same night as the other group's routine meetings/parties or during a major event for them. Running a group has its rewards..if you don't entertain the drama, there won't be any, or at least it will be kept to a minimum. I have been in leadership positions in both types of groups discussed, and what makes the difference is exactly what Opal describes, the dedication, commitment, and respect of all involved...and wow Opal...CTC is Nine years old..congrats!!

-michael's

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Post #: 14

RE: Advice on a BDSM group - 4/9/2007 4:57:13 AM

MstrssPassion

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From: West Palm Beach, FL
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If this is an informal group that is to remain an informal gathering of like-minded individuals then there really isn't a need for a lengthy list of rules & such

A munch is simply a gathering for people to come together in a very vanilla atmosphere. If you plan to hold these in public locations then you can always meet as the "computer group". Ive seen these held in banquet rooms at buffet style eateries & even in food courts at a mall. The location really depends on how much privacy you feel you require & most restaurants have small rooms or sections available for private parties.

As to the drama or possible conflicts between two groups. You might as well get use to the idea that there will always be drama. You can have 20 groups & still have drama. One group can say that another group is pulling THEIR members away... one group can say that they weren't welcome at another group thus creating a rumor of elitism. Drama doesn't get better when people branch off.... in fact, it gets much worse. (I've been faced with this whole scenario where fences were put up & everyone in the community had to pick a side & if you didn't, others placed you in one... it wasn't pretty)

If it isn't drama then it is grievances that the group is stagnant & too predictable or there aren't enough people my age attending, or as a recent post about munches mentioned-- there isn't a diversity of races-- the list could go on.

I have a question: are the issues with the first group so bad that they can't be resolved? The best way to resolve conflict is to address it. Drama is like a wildfire, you have to put out the flames before they get out of control. If you start spreading out the area where the flames were then all you end up doing is creating new wildfires that were stoked by the flames of the original fire.

< Message edited by MstrssPassion -- 4/9/2007 5:03:59 AM >

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Post #: 15

RE: Advice on a BDSM group - 4/9/2007 6:04:25 AM

SunNMoon

Posts: 1058
Joined: 3/18/2007
Status: offline

Hi katzschen and everyone,

I have two suggestions, to lessen the drama with the other group with your leaving, I would meet on a different night. This way it comes off as a time conflict and not about the people. Less chance of hurt feelings. Or change the place of meeting; I'm not sure on the distances involved here, tell everyone that it’s just too long of a drive. Try to keep it a simple reason dealing with something other then the people.

On running the meeting; the groups I've been involved with seem to do well with Robert's Rules of Order (I think that's what it is called). It sets up rules on voting, and organization; I do believe. It is more formal way of running the meeting. You can always have the social aspect as well. If you do have dues, keep really good records and you might have to look into taxes. I think the potluck idea is good or taking turns if you meeting at people's houses. The financial side is going to be the lest fun, and the hardest to get organized.

I wish you luck

, and I’m sorry if this doesn’t make sense. I haven’t had my coffee yet.

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Post #: 16

RE: Advice on a BDSM group - 4/9/2007 6:13:56 AM

thetammyjo

Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: katzschen

Another question:

In dealing with the possibility drama from other groups (as this group was created due to being tired of said drama with a few members who run another group), how do we keep the drama to a minimum between the two groups? That is, how do we show that the group has not necessarily been created to spite them? How do we show that all we want is a relaxing environment where everyone who is involved can feel free from having to deal with that kind of drama? I mean, how do we keep them from hating and/or "badmouthing" our group? From the behaviour I have seen from said certain members, this is a very real fear that I have, that they will try to put down our group or bring the drama to our group. Does anyone have any advice on this as well?

Sadly the only way to "show" that you haven't created the new group in spite of the older one is to keep going to the older group's events and do not talk about that group with anyone, not even within your circle of friends. Things will get around even if you think you can trust your friends.

I heard amazingly shallow and rude things about others from people all the time when we were active in our local university/community group. I was appalled by the number of times someone would tell me how horrible a top someone else was or how messy a house was or how stupid someone was then see those two people together later acting like buddies. When someone told me something all I would say was "I wasn't there".

Also as hisannabelle suggests get involved in their activities nor only as individuals but also as the new group. Volunteer the group to make brownies at a multi-group event like an AIDS benefit or co-sponsoring a guest speaker.

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Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

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Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

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Post #: 17

RE: Advice on a BDSM group - 4/9/2007 7:08:00 AM

SimplyMichael

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Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline

If you want to lesson the drama, stop insulting the other group and causing drama. I don't think that is your goal but you can't badmouth them while asking for hints to keep them from badmouthing you. The ONLY way to make that work (and it won't work too well anyway) is to rise above it. DON'T do it yourself and ignore it when they do it. Like children, if they don't get a reaction it will lesson out.

Another GREAT idea is that you WILL get people who think it MUST be at this restaurant or on this day. For the most part ignore them, but throw them a bone once in a while BUT make them do the work. MOST people who belong to a group are too fucking lazy and will only do ONE thing and that is suggest what YOU should do with YOUR time. To those people say, "great idea, why don't you make that happen/work on that? host that type of party, etc. The minute you make it clear you support them BUT expect them to do the work, they will either start doing things which is great or shut the fuck up which is at least acceptable.

I liken running a group to being a parent. The more you order and force the less effective you are. The more you lead by example, the more they will follow you. When people start talking shit and gossiping, say you don't care for that and change the subject. Train them and you will have a good group. Pick others to lead who will do the same.

A problem with groups in general is running one as a dom although less so for dommes is that it turns you into a giant fucking pussy magnet. Some can handle that well others either take advantage of it or get jealous/desire it for themselves which is often why groups split up.

In case you can't tell, I am a bit burnt out on running groups.

(in reply to thetammyjo)

Post #: 18

RE: Advice on a BDSM group - 4/9/2007 7:14:59 AM

BOUNTYHUNTER

Posts: 9259
Joined: 2/5/2004
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WE own a local yahoo meet and greet group,WE occasional have a dungeon play party etc...WE have total control and about every 6 months open up the topic on what direction they would like to see the group grow.IE last summer the whole group went on a weekend camping trip in the new river gorge..Stay active and encourage memberships.I have tons of adult groups on all bdsm subjects.Check out yahoo and see how some of your local groups are run...bounty

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Post #: 19

RE: Advice on a BDSM group - 4/9/2007 7:31:53 AM

thetammyjo

Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

Another GREAT idea is that you WILL get people who think it MUST be at this restaurant or on this day. For the most part ignore them, but throw them a bone once in a while BUT make them do the work. MOST people who belong to a group are too fucking lazy and will only do ONE thing and that is suggest what YOU should do with YOUR time. To those people say, "great idea, why don't you make that happen/work on that? host that type of party, etc. The minute you make it clear you support them BUT expect them to do the work, they will either start doing things which is great or shut the fuck up which is at least acceptable.

This is so true.

People in my experience tend to complain and offer suggestions but they often do not want to help or take responsiblity.

When you find someone who will do more than talk, accept their help and thank them, show them how much their help meant. Give people positive strokes and they are more likely to get involved and stay involved.

Now a word of caution.

You may (I hope you do not) run into people who love to complain and love to suggest things but who will never help out no matter how nicely or how often you offer them that opportunity. Be wary of these people because in my experience they can poison groups because when you (or anyone who is volunteering) isn't around, they may tell others that you simply rejected their ideas or told them it was silly. Why do they this? I don't know.

I wish someone had warned me about them so I'm passing on a hard lesson learned.

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

Post #: 20

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