RE: Domme/male sub.. more extreme lifestyle? (Full Version)

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lovewithoutfear -> RE: Domme/male sub.. more extreme lifestyle? (4/9/2007 6:13:06 PM)

I think this is often true -- especially the bottom hamming it up and  Top looking evil, which is something I enjoy, it feeds my exhibitionist streak -- and the avoiding tender/bony or easily damaged areas, which is just smart Topping.    But there is real, serious pain, and real, serious bruising, involved in some of the play I bottom for, and I like that.  Now, one can argue that it doesn't really feel like pain because I build up an endorphin rush, and that is partly true.  But there are times when there is real, heavy pain in SM, and there are people who get off on it.  In my experience, the reason these same people (myself included) screech when they stub their toe or dread going to the dentist is context and intention.  Unintentional pain pisses me off -- intentional pain gets me off. 

Respectfully
lovewithoutfear

You wrote,

"Domestic violence role play - I saw one of those guys at Paddles in NY.  The shoves, punches and kicks are pulled and they only land on the meaty parts (thigh, bottom, upper chest, back).  Nothing lands in the face, breast or bony parts. 

These scenes are all designed to impress and disturb onlookers.  Hence the subs hamming it up screaming and crying and the Tops hamming it up looking evil.....

Extreme pain only occurs when a Top makes an extreme mistake or is an extreme idiot."



MsCfromMelbourne -> RE: Domme/male sub.. more extreme lifestyle? (4/9/2007 6:13:45 PM)

In answer to Puella's question why fake it?

Gosh I feel bad....like I just told you all there is no Santa Claus

Its fun to shock other people!  Its fun to have them watch in awe and amazement.  You get to give workshops and do shows all over the world.  Submisisves fall over themselves to be your demo bottom

Often it is a very creative and artistic outlet (with difficult combinations of acting, scriptwriting and physical performance)

It usually feels good for the bottom too (although with some play like fireplay they feel nothing really)

Its a giant head rush.....unless you stuff up the illusion and have to rush the bottom to hospital.  But thats only happened to me once (9 years ago) so extreme play is not high risk play IMO



MsCfromMelbourne -> RE: Domme/male sub.. more extreme lifestyle? (4/9/2007 6:20:25 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: lovewithoutfear

But there is real, serious pain, and real, serious bruising, involved in some of the play I bottom for, and I like that. 


I have never met a submissive who did not want a sense of accomplishmnt (pride that they endured genuine pain) and souvenirs (bruises, cane stripes, one small burn etc etc )

But when the play is over, no-one likes going to the supermarket with a dirty big black eye.  Or limping with a broken leg. 

The biggest part of the illusion is convincing your submissive you are really hurting them .....without doing so of course.  Building up endorphins is just one technique.





BeachMystress -> RE: Domme/male sub.. more extreme lifestyle? (4/9/2007 6:33:09 PM)

 

quote:

ORIGINAL: lovewithoutfear

I stay with Sir in Los Angeles on an intermittent schedule, and I find there are some clubs that welcome this level of extreme play (which he and I prefer) and others that don't.  Would you be willing to PM me or email me with the name of this club?  I already know of one where Sir and I can feel pretty free to cut loose, but if there are others, that would be good to know.
 
Respectfully
lovewithoutfear
 
You wrote,
 
"There is a guy who plays at one of our more popular local dungeons who spends his scene kicking the shit out of the femsub. And I do mean that literally. Much of the kicking is done to her vagina. [...] I offer an open invitation to take you to this dungeon any time you make it to Los Angeles. "
 


I'm sending you information on the dungeon to the other side of collarme.

I'd also like to invite both you and your Dom (and everyone else reading this) to the South Bay Munch. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/south_bay_munch/ The next one is tomorrow night.. 04/10/07, 7:00 PM, at the National Sports Bar & Grill -3210 Sepulveda Blvd. Torrance CA. And the one after that is Thursday 04/26/07, 7:00 PM, at Bob's Big Boy, 24021 S. Hawthorne Blvd., Torrance CA. They are the second Tuesday (always at the Nationals) and the fourth Thursday (always at Big Boy) of each month. You ask the host for the co-ed softball team. We're a pansexual, friendly group. Many of our members attend the local dungeons, so if you're looking to get to know people so you don't feel so out of place at one of the dungeons we're a great starting point. The Tuesday munch is especially good as there are usually a large number of attendees (the last Tuesday munch had 43+ people) and we play pool or darts as well as eating and talking. The Thursday munches are more sedate and usually only the most local of the group (The last Big Boy munch had 14 people show up.) come.
 
We hope to see you there!



BeachMystress -> RE: Domme/male sub.. more extreme lifestyle? (4/9/2007 6:52:41 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: lovewithoutfear
But there is real, serious pain, and real, serious bruising, involved in some of the play I bottom for, and I like that. 

LoL, I admit that this made me sit up and take notice. If your Dom ever is interested in sharing you out while he watches, I know of four people other than myself who would love to help out. Hell, I'd even trust three of those people. And considering that my sjambok is rubber rather than the traditional rhino hide, I'd even loan it to your Dom to work you over.
 
I just remembered a list of local LA dungeons that I wrote out for someone new to the area. I'll copy and paste it in here for you
quote:
. .. the local events group is http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SoCalSMEvents If you check the calendar you can see what is going on in the area on any given day.

Also, the local dungeons are http://passivearts.com (public events.. all welcome with proof of age via ID. Located by LAX.) http://www.dragonsgatestudios.com/ (RSVP only events - general public not welcomed. Located in OC.) http://www.lairdesade.com/ (members and their guests only. Membership is NOT available at the door. They hold public events every other Sat afternoon that you can attend and become a member. North Hollywood. Large social component as well as play arena.)  http://www.sanctuary-la.com/ (I've never been and am not sure of their entrance policy. You can ask around at a munch as we do have people who go to Sanctuary in our group. Located in Reseda.) and http://www.threshold.org/ (It's been a while since I've been and I don't remember entrance policy. Check the site or ask around at the munch. Located in North Hollywood) All of the dungeons have a cover charge and only Passive Arts serves alcohol. You can also check out: http://www.barsinister.net/ and http://www.bondageball.com/  

Hope that helps you out some.
 



puella -> RE: Domme/male sub.. more extreme lifestyle? (4/9/2007 6:55:45 PM)

Hello BeachMystress,

And thank you again, I am always somewhat concerned that, given how intimate and important these aspects of ourselves are, there is always the possibility of offending people, even when no offense is meant.

You know, I have not spoken to them.  Actually, I have only ever gone to a club or play party with another person once before, and usually go by myself, which... as you can imagine, attracts a whole other problem if you start chatting with hungry men, on any level.  I do, more often than not, get mistaken for a Domme, even without speaking, for what ever reason  (I suspect it is my height, coloring and the fact that I do not grovel to strangers just because I am submissive... especially as a lone submissive).  So I tend to be quite and still as much as possible and absorb what is around me without causing any undo reason to draw attention to myself.  I suppose I should have spoken to people!

Thank you for the perspective, it is very good to hear other intelligent thoughts and ideas!



lovewithoutfear -> RE: Domme/male sub.. more extreme lifestyle? (4/9/2007 7:42:12 PM)

I replied to MsC fromMelbourne's post but my reply seems to have disappeared, and my reply to BeachMystress is now in its place.  Wierd.  

I'd like to answer puella's question as to why people do these kinds of scenes, and address the issue of extreme pain in scene. 

I like theatrical scenes in part because I am an exhibitionist and I like to draw a crowd, which sometimes happens when Sir and I play.  He and I both enjoy the energy of the crowd and the impression we leave.  It's another form of kink -- not our main one to be sure, but enjoyable.

Our main kink is pain.  And while MsC is correct that the Tops in scenes like ours pull punches and aim for meaty areas, she is not correct that *all* such scenes are *all* smoke and mirrors.  He can kiss me lightly with the snake whip, while the *crack* just impresses the onlookers -- or he can, and frequently does, use toys or hands to leave bruises that last for weeks.  And I love it both ways.  I genuinely get off on pain. Why?  Who knows -- I'm just built that way.  It can be an emotional trip too.   The reason that people like me screech in annoyance when we stub a toe, but get hard or wet when beaten in the right context, has to do with intention and headspace and endorphins.

Hope this was of interest--
Respectfully
JoyfulYes
lovewithoutfear



DommeChains -> RE: Domme/male sub.. more extreme lifestyle? (4/10/2007 5:46:38 AM)

I truly love inflicting pain.  The sight of welts, bruises or lasting marks is exciting to me and I love the build up in intensity during impact play or wax play.  Some of the most lingering pain I inflict is stimulating pressure points. I've had my boys telling me they still had soreness days later after I have worked over their pecs or inner thighs.

I do get a sexual charge from doing this and from knowing the sub is submitting to serve my need.  I do "pull my punches" at times if I know the sub can't handle that level of intensity.  However I do have a good, working knowledge of human anatomy, have lots of prep time mentally before with my boys and debriefing afterwards and teach them how to ride that pain and transform it into a pleasure response.  They have told me they have learned to crave that endorphin rush and knowing they are making me happy and that they derive personal satisfaction out of seeing just how much they can take and still stay attuned to me during the scene.

I, like some other sadists, also enjoy receiving pain at times.  I use my knowledge of how the process feels from the start to the finish from the bottom's perspective when I am the one inflicting it.  Pain can also be a transformative, spiritual experience and I find that when all three elements (pain as a physical/endorphin rush, emotional satisfaction of serving me & the spiritual dance of transformative pain) come together in a scene then it is magical.  So what might appear to an onlooker as me heartlessly torturing this man may well be a deeply fulfilling communing between the two of us using the medium of pain and sensation to dance together in perfect harmony.



thetammyjo -> RE: Domme/male sub.. more extreme lifestyle? (4/10/2007 6:07:57 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Vendaval

I have heard this as well, undergroundsea.
It would be fascinating to observe more
gay and lesbian scenes and learn new techniques.


quote:

ORIGINAL: undergroundsea

I once proposed a similar idea and was quickly told that I would think differently if I had seen scenes by some leather dykes. I have heard of extreme play in gay leather circles as well. So I don't think femdom alone is more extreme.

Cheers,

Sea



I've also heard this but haven't really seen that it is so. I don't know many lesbian leatherwomen, only a few, and they don't usually tell me what they do, they talk about other things with me.

What I have seen and heard from my gay leathermen friends is that gay leathermen do tend to include sex and orgasms (at least for the top) a lot more. My gay friends tell me that the biggest adjustment they've had to make when going to mixed dungeons or parties is that sex is usually off limits at mixed events whereas it is expected in gay leather venues. In terms of SM they say they see the same basic things expect different body parts might be involved.



cloudboy -> RE: Domme/male sub.. more extreme lifestyle? (4/10/2007 7:31:52 AM)


Malesubs here regularly initiate topics and discussions about extreme M/S scenarios (for example, full human toilet requests.) As rule, from what I've read, these guys tend to not be in a D/S relationship. So, there is a quite a bit of male fantasy projection going on. The femdoms usually react to this posting with sobriety and oftentimes impatience.

I don't religiously track femsub posting, but the bulk of what I have read tends to be about their own actual M/S relationships (or actual interactions) and the questions and issues related thereto. Femsub posting also tends to speak very highly of the Master in the relationship, whereas here on the Ask a Mistress board, there tends to be a higher degree of frustration - searching - wondering component to malesub posting.

In sum, the number of femsubs in a relationship who post vastly outnumbers those of malesubs. I think herein lies the answer to the content variance.



MzMia -> RE: Domme/male sub.. more extreme lifestyle? (4/10/2007 8:13:30 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessDustyGold

Hi Puella,

Good question...
 
I do not think that the F/m lifestyle is more extreme than the M/f.  In the example you gave of the "sandpaper mastubationy thingy), it is important to sort it out and see that this was posted by a male sub.  Although he claims this is something his Mistress wants to do, I have My personal doubts that he has a Mistress.  I did not weigh in on that particular thread, but I did read it and I just quickly reviewed it.  This male sub has a profile that indicates in no  way that he is owned by or has a Mistress.  Therefore, I question whether or not this is just a fantasy and he wants to get some additional jack off material. 
I do see a lot of somewhat extreme fantasies, and they are always offered up by the boys, and tempered by the FemDoms.  In that thread, if you look at it, the smart ass or "oh cool" comments came from other male subs and the cautions came from the FemDoms.
There are some very hot activities, possibly because we have such interesting dangly bits at our disposal, but I think for most things being done by a FemDom to a male sub, there is an equivalent activity being performed on fem subs by Male Doms. 
The other aspect might be that, yes, perhaps we are more open about discussing certain things. 


Since I have been reading the forums, I have noticed that about 50% of the threads in this section appear to be written by submissive
males that tend to type with their cocks in their hands or plain fantasies in their heads, I usually don't even read them.
They appear daily and again, are posted by "submissive males" that appear as stated, to have no Mistress nor any Mistress coming
down the road, either.



womanworshipper -> RE: Domme/male sub.. more extreme lifestyle? (4/10/2007 8:57:02 AM)

Although this question has been raised on the "Ask a Mistress" board,  i wonder if (given its nature) You might be open to a contribution from a male sub?

i would agree that many of the more "extreme" references in male sub postings are based in fantasy and are probably posted by people with little or no bdsm experience. Most male subs, me included, have extreme masochistic fantasies. They want to appear "heroic" in their submission (i don't know if the same applies to female subs). If some have little knowledge or experience of real bdsm then they may feel that the closest they can come to realising their fantasies is by posting about them.

As Ms C rightly says, a Professional Mistress can actually enable Her sub to feel that they are performing feats of extreme masochism for Her when in fact they will come to no harm and perhaps suffer no more pain than when having some stitches out or on the average trip to the dentist. Wax play and beatings - done correctly - are in fact far more erotic than painful. The first time i experienced wax play i actually got the giggles. Yet i still derived a "masochistic" satisfaction from submitting to it.

i would also agree that pain comes in more when things go wrong, particularly when the Domme is a novice. i can say this with some certainty as i am feeling quite battered and bruised today after a session yesterday with a Lady with very little experience!



MzMia -> RE: Domme/male sub.. more extreme lifestyle? (4/10/2007 9:05:05 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy


Malesubs here regularly initiate topics and discussions about extreme M/S scenarios (for example, full human toilet requests.) As rule, from what I've read, these guys tend to not be in a D/S relationship. So, there is a quite a bit of male fantasy projection going on. The femdoms usually react to this posting with sobriety and oftentimes impatience.

I don't religiously track femsub posting, but the bulk of what I have read tends to be about their own actual M/S relationships (or actual interactions) and the questions and issues related thereto. Femsub posting also tends to speak very highly of the Master in the relationship, whereas here on the Ask a Mistress board, there tends to be a higher degree of frustration - searching - wondering component to malesub posting.

In sum, the number of femsubs in a relationship who post vastly outnumbers those of malesubs. I think herein lies the answer to the content variance.


Most of the titles of the posts are like the song "Dream a Little Dream", let me post this stuff and see if one of the
Mistresses will answer it or agree!!



petdave -> RE: Domme/male sub.. more extreme lifestyle? (4/10/2007 5:13:54 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: womanworshipper
As Ms C rightly says, a Professional Mistress can actually enable Her sub to feel that they are performing feats of extreme masochism for Her when in fact they will come to no harm and perhaps suffer no more pain than when having some stitches out or on the average trip to the dentist. Wax play and beatings - done correctly - are in fact far more erotic than painful.


While i agree that male subs are especially prone to creating and sharing extreme fantasies that they could not endure in reality (and have been guilty of the same), i disagree that "correct" technique does not result in pain... i think there are more than a few experienced sadists of both genders who would take offense at that.

...dave



EvilKitty -> RE: Domme/male sub.. more extreme lifestyle? (4/10/2007 5:36:48 PM)

Beach Mystress, the photos on your site are hysterical! I love the "Pull tab to open"!! I'm not sure of the ratio of extremes that we face; seems every day is different. I've seen too many of the "beat the shit out of 'em" Dommes & Doms to think they're an occasional aberration. Although I consider myself to be fairly extreme; it's not often I get to play with a sub who can take what I enjoy dishing out. My #1 boy is subservient far more than masochistic. Perhaps I'm not looking hard enough, but it sure would be fun to find some more casual playtoys who could take a little knife or fireplay! Certainly there is a plethora of male subs; & I'm not denigrating subservience, merely wishing!



Najakcharmer -> RE: Domme/male sub.. more extreme lifestyle? (4/10/2007 5:41:18 PM)

My personal observation, which is borne out by accounts and statistics collected by sociologists, is that more males than females will express "extreme" fantasies and desires on both ends of the spectrum, though submissives/bottoms outnumber dominants/tops in both sexes..  True fetishism is significantly more common in males than in females. 

As to what actually happens with lifestyle couples, my personal experience and observation is that long term healthy D/s relationships may well involve "extreme" play (or play that some people would regard as "extreme"), but are fundamentally based in a dynamic of mutual caring and respect.  I have friends in all aspects of the lifestyle (gay, bi, trans, poly, male dom, female dom, switchy, etc).  Some of them are heavier players than others, and may be into things like branding, cutting, piercing, etc.  I'm not a bottom or a sub, but I am planning to borrow a femdom friend's expertise to get a nice decorative cutting and/or branding on my arm that will be of personal and spiritual significance.  I've also done my share of carving on other people, play piercing, singletail whipping, caning and other "bloodsports".

Is this extreme play?  I don't know.  It might be defined that way by some people.  But to the set I hang out with, it's just what we do for fun.  And sometimes for transformation, healing, personal growth and spiritual rites of passage.   It's definitely not done with any kind of negative energy or intent.  It is always done with great care for health and safety.  I'd say that most of us in the "heavy player" set would consider it a spiritual or shamanic experience to some extent, on both ends, and very much a positive and joyful one. 

I would not say that femdoms and male subs are represented more than any other group in the "heavy player" set.  It's been a pretty wide distribution in my experience. 



Misstoyou -> RE: Domme/male sub.. more extreme lifestyle? (4/10/2007 6:09:06 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BeachMystress

I'm someone who actually uses sandpaper in play..



Actually, I do, too, and I don't consider myself an edge player at all. I have a paddle that is similar to the picture, but without the furry side. I use it to "pre-treat" a bottom before a paddling.

On the other hand it is true that having a big strong fit submissive allows my sadistic side free rein, and that side of me continues to develop.



MaamJay -> RE: Domme/male sub.. more extreme lifestyle? (4/11/2007 1:05:57 AM)

So far, my sub side can take more solid and real pain from Master's hands when He spanks me than all of the male subs can! I can assure all that Master is NOT "pulling" His slaps! But i love the feeling, and He only hits really hard when i am well warmed up and in sufficient space to have the endorphins really flowing. The only pain I have seen a male take that I couldn't has been severe caning ... but then, he is a CPer, not really a sub. Caning is his specialty, whether giving or receiving! But I do agree with the poster who talked of the gay leathermen scenes ... the most extreme cbt I have seen was done to a male subbie by his 2 male Doms. When he was stretched by his prince albert on Our medieval rack, that had everyone's eyes watering! And the brave boy got to pain level 9.9 (he just couldn't bring himself to call 10 I think!), before they released him! No lasting ill effects though, those guys are experts!

Maam Jay aka violet[A]



womanworshipper -> RE: Domme/male sub.. more extreme lifestyle? (4/11/2007 1:09:34 AM)

dave,

There is no call for anyone to take offence, i hope. i don't think anyone is saying that bdsm done properly is painless, just that it won't generally lead to any lasting harm. The activities i compared it to (e.g. a visit to the dentist) are not entirely painless either. Give me wax play over root canal surgery any day.  

ww



BeachMystress -> RE: Domme/male sub.. more extreme lifestyle? (4/11/2007 4:44:32 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: EvilKitty

Beach Mystress, the photos on your site are hysterical! I love the "Pull tab to open"!! I'm not sure of the ratio of extremes that we face; seems every day is different. I've seen too many of the "beat the shit out of 'em" Dommes & Doms to think they're an occasional aberration. Although I consider myself to be fairly extreme; it's not often I get to play with a sub who can take what I enjoy dishing out. My #1 boy is subservient far more than masochistic. Perhaps I'm not looking hard enough, but it sure would be fun to find some more casual playtoys who could take a little knife or fireplay! Certainly there is a plethora of male subs; & I'm not denigrating subservience, merely wishing!

I'm glad you enjoyed them, EvilKitty. *grins* My personal feeling is that a scene is "adult playtime." I'm one of those people who loves to laugh, so my poor subs have to put up with not just pain, but weird things written on them, stickers stuck to their penis, being painted and in general being made to look silly. I have literally fallen over laughing at times after stepping back and seeing how foolish the poor guy looks.

And I agree that it is hard to find a sub who can take the full range of what you wish to dish out. My husband is also more service oriented than maso. Luckily he is a pleaser and feels that it is his duty as a sub to stretch his limits to take what I need to give. Yes, realistically I have to limit the amount of pain, but for the most part I am satisfied with what he can take. (Thank heavens their pain tolerance increases over time huh?)  For the rare times I need to cut loose and just wallop the living daylights out of someone we have an unowned pain slut friend who can take everything I can give out and then be passed to another Sadist for more. (You'd love him... he'll easily go through play by 5 Sadistic Domme in a night. And best of all, he doesn't want to be owned [who would when he has Domme clamoring to play with him any time he shows his face at an event] so he is always available when you want him.) I wish you luck on finding a serious masochist to enjoy.



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