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is it abuse - 4/20/2005 12:59:33 AM

twistedbabygirl

Posts: 1
Joined: 4/9/2005
Status: offline

first off i'm new to this life and have only had one Master we are still together, but live apart at the moment. my issue is that when ever i do something wrong or mess up, i'm punished... don't get me wrong i think i should be punished, but the only form of punishment i get is withdrawl. whan i lived with Master he wouldn't say 2 words to me all day. be broke up for a while and since i started seeing him again we have not moved in together yet. so now when i mess up i get sent away i have to email everyday but never get a responce till he realizes that i'm freaking out then he will let me come to him.. i guess i feel like nothing but 3 holes for Master to do with as he pleases.. it this what it's all about please help i'm very confussed

there are two kinds of power... the power to stip another's soul bare, and the power to stand naked.

Post #: 1

RE: is it abuse - 4/20/2005 1:14:50 AM

FelinePersuasion

Posts: 4792
Joined: 11/20/2004
Status: offline

Nope it's not what it's all about. Essentially what it's all about is diffrent to each D/s couple, however if he knows what he's doing is causing undue distress that's not looking out for his sub.

(in reply to twistedbabygirl)

Post #: 2

RE: is it abuse - 4/20/2005 2:16:25 AM

lil1v

Posts: 125
Joined: 4/4/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: twistedbabygirl

first off i'm new to this life and have only had one Master we are still together, but live apart at the moment. my issue is that when ever i do something wrong or mess up, i'm punished... don't get me wrong i think i should be punished, but the only form of punishment i get is withdrawl. whan i lived with Master he wouldn't say 2 words to me all day. be broke up for a while and since i started seeing him again we have not moved in together yet. so now when i mess up i get sent away i have to email everyday but never get a responce till he realizes that i'm freaking out then he will let me come to him.. i guess i feel like nothing but 3 holes for Master to do with as he pleases.. it this what it's all about please help i'm very confussed

there are two kinds of power... the power to stip another's soul bare, and the power to stand naked.

Abuse? .. I dunno.. Neglect maybe..

Is it effective? Does it help the relationship improve? Do you learn from it?

We each have things that motivate us to do better. For me, if I was ignored for a long period of time, it wouldn't be beneficial to the relationship. If I know my Master is upset with me, it will eat me up until I'm forgiven. (it will consume me, I won't feel like eating and sleep will only come with complete exhaustion.) Ignoring me until he can calm down and be rational is one thing. Just doing it to torture me is completely another. If ignored long enough, I will out of necessity take "control" over myself again and consider myself "released".

I understand not everyone is that way and "ignoring" works for some people. Its not the most effective for me. And from your complaint, it seems its not being effective for you either.

I'd suggest bringing your concerns to your Master's attention. See what he says.. Then decide if you want to stay..

_____________________________

V

(in reply to twistedbabygirl)

Post #: 3

RE: is it abuse - 4/20/2005 2:22:53 AM

darkinshadows

Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
Status: offline

Greetings twistedbaby, and welcome to the board.

Wanting to add that you are extremely brave for posting such a difficult experience for you on the forum.

If it is making you this unhappy, have you discussed this with Him? You need to communicate that this is not what you are about. You may be a sub or slave or whatever your Master calls you, but ultimately you have feelings.

Your post suggests (to me) that he does realise you are effected by his actions, in a negative way, and this to me shouts out a warning.

It isn't unusual for a Dominant to with hold as a punishment if that has been negociated. But to do so and cause negative mental states is abuse. If your not consenting, then it is wrong.

There is a big difference between humiliation and withdrawl punishments - and abusing authority.

Try and talk, and if he isn't willing to accept the communication between you, as hard as it may be, it may be time for you to move forward and look elsewhere.

You have to decide what you are capable of submitting to. Trust your instincts. Trust yourself first.

Peace and Love

_____________________________

.dark.

...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to twistedbabygirl)

Post #: 4

RE: is it abuse - 4/20/2005 3:35:47 AM

sweetpettjenny

Posts: 674
Joined: 11/7/2004
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i feel the only way to solve issues is communication. Without communication no relationship will function the way it should.

(in reply to twistedbabygirl)

Post #: 5

RE: is it abuse - 4/20/2005 7:59:05 AM

Padriag

Posts: 2633
Joined: 3/30/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: twistedbabygirl

first off i'm new to this life and have only had one Master we are still together, but live apart at the moment. my issue is that when ever i do something wrong or mess up, i'm punished... don't get me wrong i think i should be punished, but the only form of punishment i get is withdrawl. whan i lived with Master he wouldn't say 2 words to me all day. be broke up for a while and since i started seeing him again we have not moved in together yet. so now when i mess up i get sent away i have to email everyday but never get a responce till he realizes that i'm freaking out then he will let me come to him.. i guess i feel like nothing but 3 holes for Master to do with as he pleases.. it this what it's all about please help i'm very confussed

there are two kinds of power... the power to stip another's soul bare, and the power to stand naked.

Welcome to the forums Twisted. Its hard for me to judge based on just what you've said since I don't know either you or your Master. I can offer some limited advice but I also have some questions that will help me better advise you.

First, its not abuse to be punished when you've done wrong. However, the punishment needs to "fit the crime". Punishment is a form of behavior modification when done properly, its intent is to correct your behavior towards more desired forms. From what you have said, it sounds like either a clumsy attempt on his part to do that, or, possibly that he is using the punishment to ignore you for other reasons. I can't say based on the small amout of information you present, so you'll have to use your own best judgement there.

Some questions I have are how experienced is your Master? Is he new to this lifestyle as well?
From what you say, it sounds as if your relationship with him is a purely sexual one. If so, are you happy with that or do you need more?
How much guidance do you receive from him on what is expected of you, what you should be doing and ways in which you can be pleasing?
Also, when he punishes you, how does he go about it? Does he get angry and cut you off or does he talk with you, explain what you did wrong, why you are being punished, and exactly what the punishment will be?

If you can answer those questions I can give you much better advice on your situation.

quote:

Abuse? .. I dunno.. Neglect maybe..

Under US law neglect is considered abuse, I don't see any reason why it should not be considered the same within the lifestyle.

_____________________________

Padriag

A stern discipline pervades all nature, which is a little cruel so that it may be very kind - Edmund Spencer

(in reply to twistedbabygirl)

Post #: 6

RE: is it abuse - 4/20/2005 9:06:40 AM

siamsa24

Posts: 2426
Joined: 2/2/2004
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quote:

Under US law neglect is considered abuse, I don't see any reason why it should not be considered the same within the lifestyle.

In my experience (which is only with children and young adults in my area so it may be different with other ages or areas) the charge of neglect (which is considered abuse) is only used when the person suffering from the neglect is a minor or cannot otherwise care for themselves. For example, if I were to live with my mother and she did not cook for me and tell me to shower that would not be neglect because I am old enough and competant enough to do it myself. If she were to do that to my youngest sister, however, it would be neglect.

(in reply to Padriag)

Post #: 7

RE: is it abuse - 4/20/2005 11:32:23 AM

SweetDommes

Posts: 3313
Joined: 10/5/2004
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Siamsa, I belive his point was not that it would be illegal, but that neglect IS abuse, so if the "abuse, I dunno ... neglect, maybe" statement is ... not quite right - because if it is maybe neglect, then it is also maybe abuse.

And now my reply to you, twistedbabygirl, as someone who does use ignoring as a punishment, I think that this guy has a screw loose ... or maybe he's hiding something from you (like another relationship) ... or maybe he is just inexperienced and doesn't recognise what he's putting you through ... or possibly he's just an asshole and doesn't care what he's putting you through.
Definitely talk to him the next time you see him, tell him what he puts you through and what it does to you, and if you really want the emotional abuse to stop (and yes, in my opinion, this is emotional abuse) you need to be willing to tell him that if he doesn't stop ignoring you to that extreme you will assume that he no longer cares for your mental health and are going to leave him ... and if you tell him that, then you HAVE to stand by it. If he continues the pattern, it's time for you to move on.

(in reply to siamsa24)

Post #: 8

RE: is it abuse - 4/20/2005 11:58:01 AM

SirKenin

Posts: 2994
Joined: 10/31/2004
From: Barrie, ON Canada
Status: offline

I use "silence" as a form of discipline... An alternative to spanking.

With that said, I only use it for a short period of time. Say ten minutes for argument's sake. I use that time for two things. It is My cooling off period when I am pissed and it is a time for her to reflect on what she has done.

Anything beyond that, as you have seen, may or may not be abuse. I am not going to argue that because although you have asked that question I honestly believe that to be impertinent to the issue at hand. It is My belief that anything above a "timeout" becomes counterproductive, as you can see from several of the responses in here, and that is the issue. you are starting to lash out, question the motives or become bitter as a result.

That leads Me to believe that the "Master" simply does not know what He is doing, has no idea what effective discipline is, has lost His feelings for you and just really does not care about you or how you are reacting to His "discipline" or is hiding something from you. Or He could just be an idiot. I am not sure. Perhaps a combination of several if not all of these is the truth. I really do not know, but that will certainly give you some food for thought I think.

_____________________________

Hi. I don't care. Thanks.

Wicca: Pretending to be an ancient religion since 1956

Catholic Church: Serving up guilt since 107 AD.

(in reply to SweetDommes)

Post #: 9

RE: is it abuse - 4/20/2005 12:02:01 PM

Padriag

Posts: 2633
Joined: 3/30/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SweetDommes

Siamsa, I belive his point was not that it would be illegal, but that neglect IS abuse, so if the "abuse, I dunno ... neglect, maybe" statement is ... not quite right - because if it is maybe neglect, then it is also maybe abuse.

Thanks for clarifying my point SD, that was precisely what I meant.

quote:

And now my reply to you, twistedbabygirl, as someone who does use ignoring as a punishment, I think that this guy has a screw loose ... or maybe he's hiding something from you (like another relationship) ... or maybe he is just inexperienced and doesn't recognise what he's putting you through ... or possibly he's just an asshole and doesn't care what he's putting you through.
Definitely talk to him the next time you see him, tell him what he puts you through and what it does to you, and if you really want the emotional abuse to stop (and yes, in my opinion, this is emotional abuse) you need to be willing to tell him that if he doesn't stop ignoring you to that extreme you will assume that he no longer cares for your mental health and are going to leave him ... and if you tell him that, then you HAVE to stand by it. If he continues the pattern, it's time for you to move on.

I agree, but since I don't know either of them or the particulars or the situation its hard to say, hence my probing questions. If he is new and inexperienced then he might be persuaded to either come here for some advice and education or at the very least I could recommend some helpful reading. It also occured to me, like you, that he could be using these periods of "withdrawing" to hide another relationship or at least to play around. But I don't like leveling accusations where I'm not really sure and I'd hate throw suspicion on an inexperienced couple if it wasn't warranted. Starting out new is hard enough without other peoples paranoia. Inexperience is easy enough to rectify if he's willing to learn. If he either just doesn't care, or is hiding something that is not a problem we can solve. I think if Twisted will answer my questions a lot of us can be a good deal more helpful to her.

_____________________________

Padriag

A stern discipline pervades all nature, which is a little cruel so that it may be very kind - Edmund Spencer

(in reply to SweetDommes)

Post #: 10

RE: is it abuse - 4/20/2005 1:15:22 PM

SweetDommes

Posts: 3313
Joined: 10/5/2004
Status: offline

I don't particularly want to make her overly suspicious either, but at the same time, it is something that she needs to consider. I do not advocate throwing out accusations without proof, but she needs to talk to him about the fact that his total, extended withdrawal makes it look as though he is hiding something, and she needs him to be honest with her, as she is honest with him. I did throw out other possiblities, and there are others as well ... but that is one that obviously jumps to mind first, as from her words, they were living together, broke up, and are dating again but not living together. There is the possiblity that he met someone while they were broken up and getting back together with her did not end the relationship started inbetween.

I, personally, would assume insensitive asshole (not cheater) and dump him, but that's just me. And I can see other reasons for his behavior, even though I wouldn't believe them if I were in her place LOL

(in reply to Padriag)

Post #: 11

RE: is it abuse - 4/20/2005 1:42:55 PM

ManOwner

Posts: 127
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Sacramento, California
Status: offline

Many Doms choose ignoring as punishment because it provides a disincentive for their slave to act out for the purpose of getting attention. I'm going to steal a page from Dan Savage's book. OYMSYP: open your mouth, solve your problem. If you feel that he is treating you as nothing but three holes to use, and this does not make you happy - speak up! It looks as if you have discovered a so-called "limit," that being indefinite shunning. Tell your Master that you can't stand this, and it makes you unhappy in the relationship. If his reaction is one of understsanding, then great. If he acts like he doesn't care about your feelings, here's another piece of Savage advice. DTMFA: dump the motherfucker already.

(in reply to SweetDommes)

Post #: 12

RE: is it abuse - 4/20/2005 6:28:30 PM

RiotGirl

Posts: 3149
Status: offline

hey hon

well i havent much to offer that hasnt already been offered. All i have to offer is personal experience. i'm not going to tell you to question him, yourself or your relationship. Depending on your relationship, the punishment is ultimately up to him to decide. You really havent a "say" in it. Which is why he is dominant. You choose to be with him, live by his rules, obey him, and live by his punishments. Ultimately you have a choice. You can either live with it or not. Now the type of punishment you are enduring, knowing what stress it causes you to ME doesnt sound like he is concerned with your well being. Punishment should not bring you low, but bring you higher. Punishment, in an odd sort of way should be a good thing. Aye its a bad thing as you have displeased the one you want to please the most, but its good as in its a teaching tool.

From a slave who knows her Master cares for her, ignoring me would be detrimental. He knows it would cause me stress and hurt me. He has done it once, for a very short period of time and i didnt move an inch until he contacted me again. He knows it would HARM me, emotionally harm me. Even if it just hurt, undue emotional hurt is not what you need from those that care for you. You need to know they are there.

i think one of a Dom's job's is to know their sub. To know what they can and can not handle. They are driving the train so to speak. To guide them with that knowledge in mind. Its like being in a car and the driver knows going around corners fast makes you throw up. Yet they do it anyways. Does he do it because he doesnt care, or does he do it because he is trying to teach you something? Does he know you can ultimatly handle it, or does he know you cant handle it. i suppose its about what you can handle and cant handle and if he is KNOWLINGLY crossing that.

my.65897 cents

(in reply to ManOwner)

Post #: 13

RE: is it abuse - 4/21/2005 8:52:19 AM

stormsfate

Posts: 849
Joined: 2/1/2005
Status: offline

Well it appears to get your attention. I would despise that form of punishment as well, but punishment is not meant to be pleasant. As far as it being abuse...I find that word tossed around entirely too much within the lifestyle. Being ignored is not abuse.

(in reply to RiotGirl)

Post #: 14

RE: is it abuse - 4/21/2005 9:18:37 AM

SirKenin

Posts: 2994
Joined: 10/31/2004
From: Barrie, ON Canada
Status: offline

quote:

As far as it being abuse...I find that word tossed around entirely too much within the lifestyle.

Not just in the lifestyle, but everywhere. It seems to be the latest buzzword. Take a look at women's shelters. They make Me sick, they abuse the word abuse so much.

_____________________________

Hi. I don't care. Thanks.

Wicca: Pretending to be an ancient religion since 1956

Catholic Church: Serving up guilt since 107 AD.

(in reply to stormsfate)

Post #: 15

RE: is it abuse - 4/21/2005 10:04:48 AM

BeachMystress

Posts: 2156
Joined: 4/3/2004
From: Naples Island- Long Beach CA - Southern California
Status: offline

I personally don't feel it is abuse in the least. It is a powerful training tool and I suspect you do not often make the same mistake again. As stated in another post, punishment is not meant to be fun. You don't spank a sub for being bad.. it is almost like a reward. You do something they don't like; such as holding the penny against the wall with their nose, standing in a corner hooded or banishment for a period of time.

Now, your statement about feeling like 3 holes for use says that there is more wrong with this relationship than just that he punishes you in this way. What does he do that makes you feel like that.

_____________________________

Beach Mystress
*Do not threaten the weak. Intimidate the strong. ~ Stevenson*
http://beachmystress.jigsy.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/beachmystress/

(in reply to twistedbabygirl)

Post #: 16

RE: is it abuse - 4/21/2005 10:32:54 AM

EmeraldSlave2

Posts: 3645
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

I don't think the ignoring part is abusive, but I do think there is a big communication and understanding breakdown. Punishments aren't supposed to make the person freaked out and obsessed and upset for a long time, they are supposed to encourage better behavior. Whether its the sub not getting the lesson (for whatever reason) or the dom not using the best methods, somethings not working right here.

As far as being used for three holes...when I'm happy and secure I love feeling like that. When I'm insecure though it can bring me down. Not sure how your relationship works but my guess is you don't consider that a good thing to be viewed as.

(in reply to BeachMystress)

Post #: 17

RE: is it abuse - 4/21/2005 10:56:30 AM

lil1v

Posts: 125
Joined: 4/4/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SirKenin

Not just in the lifestyle, but everywhere. It seems to be the latest buzzword. Take a look at women's shelters. They make Me sick, they abuse the word abuse so much.

*gasp*

I don't even know WHAT to say to that..

(I know what I'd like to do, but I think thats illegal)

_____________________________

V

(in reply to SirKenin)

Post #: 18

RE: is it abuse - 4/21/2005 12:25:15 PM

siamsa24

Posts: 2426
Joined: 2/2/2004
Status: offline

quote:

Not just in the lifestyle, but everywhere. It seems to be the latest buzzword. Take a look at women's shelters. They make Me sick, they abuse the word abuse so much.

One of my hallmates works in a shelter as a volunteer. Based on the things she has told me I hardly think these women are overusing the word "abuse." For most of them, it took months for them to get up the courage to leave and now live every day in fear that they will be found.
I suggest that you either volunteer in a shelter or talk to people in an abusive relationship before you make such harsh judgments

(in reply to SirKenin)

Post #: 19

RE: is it abuse - 4/21/2005 1:27:24 PM

SirKenin

Posts: 2994
Joined: 10/31/2004
From: Barrie, ON Canada
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: siamsa24

quote:

Not just in the lifestyle, but everywhere. It seems to be the latest buzzword. Take a look at women's shelters. They make Me sick, they abuse the word abuse so much.

One of my hallmates works in a shelter as a volunteer. Based on the things she has told me I hardly think these women are overusing the word "abuse." For most of them, it took months for them to get up the courage to leave and now live every day in fear that they will be found.
I suggest that you either volunteer in a shelter or talk to people in an abusive relationship before you make such harsh judgments

I know two people who abused the shelter on a regular basis. There is legitimate abuse, then there is fabricated abuse. I have read all the handouts they pump out. More than half of them just sound like excuses to keep the government money flowing. The greatest percentage of the women are there on trumped up nonsense from what I found out. There is a percentage that are there for legitimate reasons and truly they deserve O/our compassion and concern. The rest of them should be booted out so they can come to grips with reality and either reconcile with their husband or find alternative accomodations. Those accomodations are for people that are in genuine trouble.

This is the number one reason why I refuse to support any women's shelters, until they completely revamp their mandates.

_____________________________

Hi. I don't care. Thanks.

Wicca: Pretending to be an ancient religion since 1956

Catholic Church: Serving up guilt since 107 AD.

(in reply to siamsa24)

Post #: 20

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