MemphisDsCouple
Posts: 146
Joined: 11/1/2004
From: Memphis, TN, USA
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: junecleaver
I am a lady first, then a submissive. I refuse to be the aggressor. I want to be pursued and owned--almost hunted. Is the hunter not in charge of his prey? If you want me to submit to you, you better start impressing. I don't just bow down for anyone.
Nope. The hunter is not at all in charge of his prey. His prey is, definitionally, free from/of the hunter. And, the prey is (virtually if not completely) always trying to avoid the hunter. The hunter hunts, don't you see? The hunter pursues. I have hunted. I have hunted wild game. And I have hunted women. Both pursuits were at a different time/phase in my life than the one I am now in.
I've noticed a lot of women feel just the way you have so succinctly described your feelings and expectations of pursuit. But I think the approach to d/s courtship you have described is self defeating and doomed to leave you wondering what went wrong and why things are not turning out as you expected and desired.
Hunting wild game is in large part a physical exercise. The hunter works at ensnaring or getting close enough to reach out and control the object of his hunt. The hunter's ability to touch/control can be (and often is) extended by tools/implements. Many tools used for hunting are lethal. Some, like nets for example, are more benign. But in any case, the object of the hunt is for the hunter to create physical, overpowering control over the body of the prey.
It has been the case throughout almost all the history of the human species that hunting women as one hunts game (subject to some parameters) was a recognized, legal, acceptable and often even encouraged activity. The men of one tribe might hunt/capture women from another tribe for example. At the same time, hunting the women of one's own tribe in this way would generally be forbidden. Instead, the women of one's own tribe would, of course, be fair game to the men of neighboring tribes.
Now, however, things have changed. To the extent it is still a "legal" or accepted practice to hunt women, that will be the case only in the most out of the way, insulated locales and local cultures. By and large, in today's world the actual, physical hunting of women is no longer either legal or even tacitly accepted. When hunting women is practiced by the occasional rogue male (or small group of males), we have codified harsh penalties to deal with him. We call it stalking, kidnapping and so on. As I said, the penalties are harsh. Therefore, it is no longer practical for men to physically hunt women, nor is it practical for women to expect to be physically, literally, hunted.
Obviously, these modern strictures fly in the face of our instincts. Many, many women feel as you have said you feel (to varying individual degrees, of course). Believe me when I say there are just as many men who are left feeling empty and unfulfilled by the societal constraints I am describing. Be that as it may, we have all decided through our laws to treat each other as being from the same tribe (to draw on my earlier analogy). We have all agreed to outlaw the hunting of women.
That leaves us with the pursuit of women. How does one pursue something when one is forbidden to reach out and take control of it when one catches up to it? Indeed, what does one do when one's pursuit is successful? Is that really pursuit at all? Our legal codes and societal mores have acted as funnel, narrowing the scope of acceptable courtship practices so as to push us all toward the classic Victorian courtship mold. The male brings flowers. The male calls and asks if the woman will accept his invitation to spend time together. This is not pursuit!!!! This is *called* pursuit. But it is not pursuit. This is the male transformed into a supplicant instead of a hunter. This is the male asking and the female controlling.
For the majority of the relationships formed in our society, the Victorian courtship model is not necessarily a problem. If the people in the relationship are to be equals, then we can shrug it off. Even though we have turned one of the people in the courtship (the male) into a bit of a supplicant, still, I think we can shrug it off. If the female is to be the dominant within the relationship, then the way in which courtship has evolved in our society is entirely appropriate. It sets the initiation of the relationship on firm ground consistent with the roles the participants will play within the relationship as the relationship blossoms and matures. The male is supplicant and the female controls. However, when forming a d/s relationship in which the male will be dominant, the Victorian courtship model is a particularly bad way to start a relationship. It sets the stage with ingredients and precedents that are just the opposite of what the participants anticipate, desire and expect the relationship to become.
To the point of the post to which I am responding: Will you really be happy with a man who reads what you have written and starts jumping through hoops trying to impress you? Even if he *is* a mighty hunter, do you really want to hear him tell you repeatedly: "I am a mighty hunter"?
No. I think the "impress me", "chase me" expectations of today's society will not get you where you want to go. How could a man ever succeed as master of his home and relationship if he followed a woman around asking: "Please be my slave?" Surely the reader sees the inherent contradiction.
I think for a lot of men that since they are forbidden by law and society to consummate the pursuit of a woman through capture and possession - I think many men have become fixated on the pursuit itself, and once they catch up to a woman they lose interest in her and turn their attention to the next pursuit. I think this is an unfortunate byproduct of our courtship customs. I think it inspires a lot of bitterness and resentment in women toward men.
Also, I notice that a sizeable number of young men seem to be dropping out of the courtship "system". They seem to rely on one night stands and short flings instead of even trying to create permanence by chasing after women, hat in hand. I know I did that for a period of time in my life. However, I also notice that sometimes a woman will decide to not wait for or expect a man to become a supplicant to her. I notice that sometimes a woman will make it known to a man by calling him, writing him, going to see him that she would like him to be interested in her, that she would like him to take her. In my opinion, this is an encouraging development in contemporary courtship. This is setting the stage for a healthy beginning for a relationship to grow in a male dominant, female submissive structure. And, very importantly, when this occurs (that the submissive woman opens herself to a man, invites a man to take her, gives herself to his dominance) no laws are broken. No one is a stalker or a kidnapper.
I propose to the reader that it takes a lot more courage for a woman to be a submissive today, and to open herself, and to lay herself before a man than it did 1000 years ago when she could be physically captured and had little choice in the matter other than to make the best of her capture.
Postscript:
You are welcome to print or save this post for your own use. Please do not copy it to any public or semi-public forum (including email groups/lists) without my express permission. Thanks. All rights reserved. (I write this postscript because after-the-fact someone wrote to me to inform me that they had copied a prior post I wrote to another list. So, I thought I'd better clarify what my preference/policy is regarding use of what I write.)
B. (the male half of MemphisDsCouple)
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