RE: Just Thinking....

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missturbation -> RE: Just Thinking.... (4/11/2007 3:22:49 PM)
I personally believe an element of 'game playing' is involved in all relationships. We start playing games as children and it is inenvitable that it will run into our adult lives! A game doesn't have to be fun like naked twister or strip poker. Games can be pretty serious stuff when we get to be adults, play your hand wrong and you have lost but play the game right and you can be a big winner. I've done the 'I'll have to check my diary and see if i'm available' knowing full well i have absolutely no social life lol. I've let the answer phone pick up when i'm in so he will think i'm out enjoying myself. All part of silly games we play. I've also a little more seriously said 'we should date other people' when he had appeared unsure i was the one. More risk involved in that game but still a game.

gypsygrl -> RE: Just Thinking.... (4/11/2007 3:33:46 PM)
I don't want to single you out,but you the kind of game you're thinking of is a zero-sum game, and I think most others who took issue with the 'game' idea are assuming this kind of game. Not all games are zero-sum games and a game doesn't have to be competitive or can be structured in such a way that sometimes you win and sometimes you lose. Some games are set up so they never end and nobody ever wins. I played a game with some folks for years then left about six months ago. Yesterday, I checked in on the community and the game was still going on just as if I had never left.

CreativeDominant -> RE: Just Thinking.... (4/11/2007 5:14:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: missturbation I personally believe an element of 'game playing' is involved in all relationships. We start playing games as children and it is inenvitable that it will run into our adult lives! A game doesn't have to be fun like naked twister or strip poker. Games can be pretty serious stuff when we get to be adults, play your hand wrong and you have lost but play the game right and you can be a big winner. I've done the 'I'll have to check my diary and see if i'm available' knowing full well i have absolutely no social life lol. I've let the answer phone pick up when i'm in so he will think i'm out enjoying myself. All part of silly games we play. I've also a little more seriously said 'we should date other people' when he had appeared unsure i was the one. More risk involved in that game but still a game. See...I've been alive 52 years and have never seen the sense of those kinds of games. They irritate me...if you do not want to go out tonight, then say so. But to say that you "need to check your social calendar" is a way to play so many aspects of someone else's mind and not necessarily in any way that is good or fair: the optimistic, deluded thought of "Gee...she must really be popular...I can't wait to go out with her" OR the dejected "I knew that there was no way that a guy like me could have a chance to find her free" to confusion "I thought she said she was free this evening????". If the idea behind the "we should date other people" is to get him to stand up and declare, then the risk was well-calculated. If he didn't want to date other people until he heard you say that and then, his anger and hurt and own sense of pride took over and he agreed...and you didn't really want him to, you just wanted him to step up...then your risk has put the whole relationship at risk. Why not just say "I need a bigger commitment. If not, then we need to back away from each other and we need to see other people." Or, if you really do want to see other people...then mean just that when you state it. But, because of these types of games that have been played, does the other person believe it...or is he aware of the game and chooses not to be pushed into something he is not ready for? And on...and on...and on... I like giggles...I like grins...I like games with my partner when the stakes aren't high enough to cause hurt and pain and disappointment and anger or that make her question herself in any way that is done for a manipulative purpose and not a purpose of exploration.

missturbation -> RE: Just Thinking.... (4/11/2007 5:22:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant quote: ORIGINAL: missturbation I personally believe an element of 'game playing' is involved in all relationships. We start playing games as children and it is inenvitable that it will run into our adult lives! A game doesn't have to be fun like naked twister or strip poker. Games can be pretty serious stuff when we get to be adults, play your hand wrong and you have lost but play the game right and you can be a big winner. I've done the 'I'll have to check my diary and see if i'm available' knowing full well i have absolutely no social life lol. I've let the answer phone pick up when i'm in so he will think i'm out enjoying myself. All part of silly games we play. I've also a little more seriously said 'we should date other people' when he had appeared unsure i was the one. More risk involved in that game but still a game. See...I've been alive 52 years and have never seen the sense of those kinds of games. They irritate me...if you do not want to go out tonight, then say so. But to say that you "need to check your social calendar" is a way to play so many aspects of someone else's mind and not necessarily in any way that is good or fair: the optimistic, deluded thought of "Gee...she must really be popular...I can't wait to go out with her" OR the dejected "I knew that there was no way that a guy like me could have a chance to find her free" to confusion "I thought she said she was free this evening????". If the idea behind the "we should date other people" is to get him to stand up and declare, then the risk was well-calculated. If he didn't want to date other people until he heard you say that and then, his anger and hurt and own sense of pride took over and he agreed...and you didn't really want him to, you just wanted him to step up...then your risk has put the whole relationship at risk. Why not just say "I need a bigger commitment. If not, then we need to back away from each other and we need to see other people." Or, if you really do want to see other people...then mean just that when you state it. But, because of these types of games that have been played, does the other person believe it...or is he aware of the game and chooses not to be pushed into something he is not ready for? And on...and on...and on... I like giggles...I like grins...I like games with my partner when the stakes aren't high enough to cause hurt and pain and disappointment and anger or that make her question herself in any way that is done for a manipulative purpose and not a purpose of exploration. I completely agree and i haven't paid those kinds of games in a long long time but they do still get played. I see my friends playing them all the time. Mind boggling silly relationship games but still games however dangerous or menial.

SusanofO -> RE: Just Thinking.... (4/11/2007 5:42:46 PM)
daddysprop247: I meant "role" in the way that any of us have "roles" we play in our lives: For example - husband, wife, B/f, g/f, submissive, Dominant, employee,patient, etc. That is really all I meant, and of course there is always a real person enacting any "role" they play in their own lives (or other's lives). All of these various "roles" come with expectations from the receiver, or partner, IMO. If many submissives and slaves, for example, were "too dominant" for their partner, my guess is that they would be "dismissed" in short order. Nothing wrong with that, as far as I see, as long as people have made their expectations of another pretty clear, and they are on "the same page" with the other party. It is when this doesn't happen, IMO, that problems can start to arise in many relationships. - Susan

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Just Thinking.... (4/11/2007 6:07:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: missturbation I personally believe an element of 'game playing' is involved in all relationships. We start playing games as children and it is inenvitable that it will run into our adult lives! A game doesn't have to be fun like naked twister or strip poker. Games can be pretty serious stuff when we get to be adults, play your hand wrong and you have lost but play the game right and you can be a big winner. I've done the 'I'll have to check my diary and see if i'm available' knowing full well i have absolutely no social life lol. I've let the answer phone pick up when i'm in so he will think i'm out enjoying myself. All part of silly games we play. I've also a little more seriously said 'we should date other people' when he had appeared unsure i was the one. More risk involved in that game but still a game. From this and your further replies- do you still enjoy thos manipulation games or not? Cuz remember, kinky people are more honest, open, and communicative so obviously games like this CAN'T be played because they aren't fully honest and open. ;) Yes, lots of adults play lots of stupid games like that. Games like that (including the "I'll test him to make me feel better") do not form solid long term relationships.

CreativeDominant -> RE: Just Thinking.... (4/11/2007 6:10:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross quote: ORIGINAL: missturbation I personally believe an element of 'game playing' is involved in all relationships. We start playing games as children and it is inenvitable that it will run into our adult lives! A game doesn't have to be fun like naked twister or strip poker. Games can be pretty serious stuff when we get to be adults, play your hand wrong and you have lost but play the game right and you can be a big winner. I've done the 'I'll have to check my diary and see if i'm available' knowing full well i have absolutely no social life lol. I've let the answer phone pick up when i'm in so he will think i'm out enjoying myself. All part of silly games we play. I've also a little more seriously said 'we should date other people' when he had appeared unsure i was the one. More risk involved in that game but still a game. From this and your further replies- do you still enjoy thos manipulation games or not? Cuz remember, kinky people are more honest, open, and communicative so obviously games like this CAN'T be played because they aren't fully honest and open. ;) Yes, lots of adults play lots of stupid games like that. Games like that (including the "I'll test him to make me feel better") do not form solid long term relationships. Nicely put LA...another point I had not thought of...the part about being honest and open in D/s...where the games are supposed to be play that both sides are aware of...like knife play, edge play, role play, etc.

gypsygrl -> RE: Just Thinking.... (4/11/2007 6:48:07 PM)
I don't know dating games because I've never really dated until the last couple years. They're different from grocery store games and gas station games. But, when I've been on the receiving end of these kinds of maneuvers, it hasn't been good. Sometimes a guy will go out of his way to make you think he's dating and considering others, and I'm like, cool, this guy can take care of business only to find out there aren't any others. And, then its like oh dear, and I don't know what to do. I mean, seriously, what's my next move? I always tell people I'm not a good girlfriend. I don't know that game.

missturbation -> RE: Just Thinking.... (4/11/2007 7:18:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross quote: ORIGINAL: missturbation I personally believe an element of 'game playing' is involved in all relationships. We start playing games as children and it is inenvitable that it will run into our adult lives! A game doesn't have to be fun like naked twister or strip poker. Games can be pretty serious stuff when we get to be adults, play your hand wrong and you have lost but play the game right and you can be a big winner. I've done the 'I'll have to check my diary and see if i'm available' knowing full well i have absolutely no social life lol. I've let the answer phone pick up when i'm in so he will think i'm out enjoying myself. All part of silly games we play. I've also a little more seriously said 'we should date other people' when he had appeared unsure i was the one. More risk involved in that game but still a game. From this and your further replies- do you still enjoy thos manipulation games or not? Cuz remember, kinky people are more honest, open, and communicative so obviously games like this CAN'T be played because they aren't fully honest and open. ;) Yes, lots of adults play lots of stupid games like that. Games like that (including the "I'll test him to make me feel better") do not form solid long term relationships. Hell no i despise games nowadays but accept that they are still played out and i can land up being just a little pawn in them.

missturbation -> RE: Just Thinking.... (4/11/2007 7:20:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: gypsygrl I don't know dating games because I've never really dated until the last couple years. They're different from grocery store games and gas station games. But, when I've been on the receiving end of these kinds of maneuvers, it hasn't been good. Sometimes a guy will go out of his way to make you think he's dating and considering others, and I'm like, cool, this guy can take care of business only to find out there aren't any others. And, then its like oh dear, and I don't know what to do. I mean, seriously, what's my next move? I always tell people I'm not a good girlfriend. I don't know that game. Unfortunately i've been on the recieving end of games and i've also played them. Again unfortunately there don't really seem to be any rules to them that you can spot easily.

Lady Alaria -> RE: Just Thinking.... (4/11/2007 7:47:40 PM)
My personal religion is that life is just a series of games. I'm not offended by the notion of the lifestyle as a game, because I think it is. So is a job, so is art, so is family. Nothing in life is all that serious, really, unless you pretend it is.

Lady Alaria -> RE: Just Thinking.... (4/11/2007 8:21:36 PM)
Talk of 'real' and 'permanent' consequences seem silly to me. There are no consequences that are not 'real'. Real is whatever you are doing right now. If you are playing hopscotch right now, hopscotch is what is real. If you are pretending to be a computer programmer for a minute, that is what is real. If you are pretending to be in a till death do you part relationship right now, that is what is real. Whatever you are focusing on -right now-, that is -all- that is real. The very real consequences of losing a hand of poker is that you take off an article of clothes(at least that's what they tell me). The very real consequence of losing any game is the feeling of having lost. When things go bad in 'real' life, the very real consequence is the feeling of having lost. There is no difference except possibly in scale. As far as permanent goes, nothing in life is permanent.

Lady Alaria -> RE: Just Thinking.... (4/11/2007 8:23:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: gypsygrl I don't want to single you out,but you the kind of game you're thinking of is a zero-sum game, and I think most others who took issue with the 'game' idea are assuming this kind of game. Not all games are zero-sum games and a game doesn't have to be competitive or can be structured in such a way that sometimes you win and sometimes you lose. Some games are set up so they never end and nobody ever wins. I played a game with some folks for years then left about six months ago. Yesterday, I checked in on the community and the game was still going on just as if I had never left. Hmm... Are you a bit of a gamer geek then....? No offense intended by the term.

MzMia -> RE: Just Thinking.... (4/11/2007 8:24:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lady Alaria My personal religion is that life is just a series of games. I'm not offended by the notion of the lifestyle as a game, because I think it is. So is a job, so is art, so is family. Nothing in life is all that serious, really, unless you pretend it is. Lady Alaria! you have stated what I was thinking. To a certain extent, life is a game. It is all how you look at reality, what is important to you, and what you are trying to achieve in the end. I would not say that I think everything in life is a game, but if you are not able to win the game of life--you lose. As sure as I am sitting here, I see many that win and won the game of life. And many that are losing or lost the game of life. Namaste

Lady Alaria -> RE: Just Thinking.... (4/11/2007 8:44:45 PM)
MzMia, You say that you do not think everything in life is a game, but that life itself is a game? What in life is not a game, if life itself is? Layer upon layer, games within games.... I don't agree though, that life is the kind of game that can be won and lost, really. It seems to have more in common with tea party type games than chess or sports. It's not always, as gypsygrl put it, a zero-sum game. Not all games involve winning or losing and -that- is the area that most people seem to go wrong in looking at life, from my perspective. The old adage about it not being whether you win or lose, but how you play becomes far more -true-, far more poignant, when it's really hard to tell what winning and losing really look like.

gypsygrl -> RE: Just Thinking.... (4/11/2007 8:46:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lady Alaria quote: ORIGINAL: gypsygrl I don't want to single you out,but you the kind of game you're thinking of is a zero-sum game, and I think most others who took issue with the 'game' idea are assuming this kind of game. Not all games are zero-sum games and a game doesn't have to be competitive or can be structured in such a way that sometimes you win and sometimes you lose. Some games are set up so they never end and nobody ever wins. I played a game with some folks for years then left about six months ago. Yesterday, I checked in on the community and the game was still going on just as if I had never left. Hmm... Are you a bit of a gamer geek then....? No offense intended by the term. Oh, I only ever played this one game. But, did I ever play it! :) There's actually a kind of game where the players change the rules as the game progresses. I can't think of the term for it though. The kind of games that never end are like that though.

MzMia -> RE: Just Thinking.... (4/11/2007 8:48:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lady Alaria MzMia, You say that you do not think everything in life is a game, but that life itself is a game? What in life is not a game, if life itself is? Layer upon layer, games within games.... I don't agree though, that life is the kind of game that can be won and lost, really. It seems to have more in common with tea party type games than chess or sports. It's not always, as gypsygrl put it, a zero-sum game. Not all games involve winning or losing and -that- is the area that most people seem to go wrong in looking at life, from my perspective. The old adage about it not being whether you win or lose, but how you play becomes far more -true-, far more poignant, when it's really hard to tell what winning and losing really look like. Oh I agree it is a "game", I just wish we could find another word to describe it. To me winning is being able to say on your death bed, I did it MY way, with a big smile on your face. Also, when others speak of you "the departed" and can say, she had a great life![:)] LOL

Wildfleurs -> RE: Just Thinking.... (4/11/2007 8:48:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: crouchingtigress what is so threatening referring to the bdsm lifestyle as a game? Not threatening, just not accurate for me personally. If its accurate personally for you then I don't have a problem with you saying that BDSM is a game for you. quote: why cant it be a highly complex game, that you play your whole life? Because for me it does not fit the wikipedia definition of game. Its rather simple to me. quote: how does it being a game, devalue the person, and the persons experience of it? Its not an issue of value, but rather of accuracy of terms. And game is not an accurate label for me. quote: is the fear that if you call it a game, does that mean you cant be taken seriously? All depends on the person, I don't take people who use the term lifestyle all that seriously either. Jargon doesn't make someone serious, their actions do. C~ P.S. - Its also not a religion for me.

Lady Alaria -> RE: Just Thinking.... (4/11/2007 8:54:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Wildfleurs Because for me it does not fit the wikipedia definition of game. Its rather simple to me. -snip- Its not an issue of value, but rather of accuracy of terms. And game is not an accurate label for me. Why? In what manner is game an inaccurate term for you? In what manner does your experience of bdsm, or lifestyle, or whatever you want to call wiitwd(ah, jargon) not fit within the Wiki(all hail wiki) definition of game? Or religion for that matter?

Passion357 -> RE: Just Thinking.... (4/11/2007 8:59:40 PM)
Greetings, All, quote: personally i would never appreciate my way of life being referred to as a "game" because it does not fit the definition of such, So your way of life is not a structured or semi-structured activity, usually undertaken for enjoyment and sometimes also used as an educational tool? Just clarifying... Awesome topic, I think. Well Wishes, ~Passion~

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