RE: Just Thinking....

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Lady Alaria -> RE: Just Thinking.... (4/11/2007 9:04:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Padriag As for religion, for some of us this style of life has no "mystical" aspect, there is no "spiritual" component, there is no "bondage god" nor is it viewed as a means of reaching "the divine", so it could not be considered a religion. I don't tend to think a mystical element is absolutely required for something to be a religion, it is only one possible aspect. A very good example of a religion that doesn't have a mystical aspect is Atheism. One of the more rigidly dogmatic religions around, and no mystical component at all. The lifestyle does fit most of the elements of religion, being that there are beliefs, rituals, traditions... But it doesn't fit into my own personal definition of religion, being a form of belief structure that proposes to answer the 'great questions', whatever they may be. The only way the lifestyle comes close is in part answering the 'what is my purpose in life?' question, and that really only for full sub/slaves.

aSlavesLife -> RE: Just Thinking.... (4/11/2007 9:23:21 PM)
Further quotes from the same wikipedia site serve to distinguish games from life. French sociologist Roger Caillois, in his book Les jeux et les hommes (Games and Men)Caillois, Roger (1957). Les jeux et les hommes. Gallimard. , defined a game as an activity that must have the following characteristics: fun: the activity is chosen for its light-hearted character separate: it is circumscribed in time and place uncertain: the outcome of the activity is unforeseeable non-productive governed by rules: the activity has rules that are different from everyday life fictitious: it is accompanied by the awareness of a different reality I cannot see it as a religion either, though of course this is my dogmatic atheism speaking. There again, I see atheism as an absence of religion, not a religion. If this is wrong, I should be seeing a healthy tax break next year since religious institutions are tax exempt.

Wildfleurs -> RE: Just Thinking.... (4/11/2007 9:43:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lady Alaria Why? In what manner is game an inaccurate term for you? In what manner does your experience of bdsm, or lifestyle, or whatever you want to call wiitwd(ah, jargon) not fit within the Wiki(all hail wiki) definition of game? Or religion for that matter? I went back to the OP and the definition of game given in wikipedia that she provided which were: quote: A game is a structured or semi-structured activity, usually undertaken for enjoyment and sometimes also used as an educational tool. Okay this first sentence of the definition doesn’t accurately describe my relationship. Most importantly its not an activity, its also not used as an educational tool. quote: Key components of games are goals, rules, challenge, and interactivity. Games generally involve mental or physical stimulation, and often both. Many games help develop practical skills, serve as a form of exercise, or otherwise perform an educational, simulational or psychological role. I would say that goals aren’t a key component of my relationship. Rules aren’t a key component either. Challenge is a part of it, but then again I’d say challenge is a key component of life so I don’t consider challenge to be a defining component of much of anything. Similarly with interactivity, anything involving another person is going to fall under interactivity so it’s really a pointless key component in terms of trying to make a relationship fall under the term game. To elaborate a bit farther and use something a bit more concrete (and somewhat scholarly) I took a look at Merriam Websters definition for game: quote: Main Entry: 1game Pronunciation: 'gAm Function: noun Etymology: Middle English, from Old English gamen; akin to Old High German gaman amusement 1 a (1) : activity engaged in for diversion or amusement : PLAY (2) : the equipment for a game b : often derisive or mocking jesting : FUN, SPORT <make game of a nervous player> 2 a : a procedure or strategy for gaining an end : TACTIC b : an illegal or shady scheme or maneuver : RACKET 3 a (1) : a physical or mental competition conducted according to rules with the participants in direct opposition to each other (2) : a division of a larger contest (3) : the number of points necessary to win (4) : points scored in certain card games (as in all fours) by a player whose cards count up the highest (5) : the manner of playing in a contest (6) : the set of rules governing a game (7) : a particular aspect or phase of play in a game or sport <a football team's kicking game> b plural : organized athletics c (1) : a field of gainful activity : LINE <the newspaper game> (2) : any activity undertaken or regarded as a contest involving rivalry, strategy, or struggle <the dating game> <the game of politics>; also : the course or period of such an activity <got into aviation early in the game> (3) : area of expertise : SPECIALTY 3 <comedy is not my game> 4 a (1) : animals under pursuit or taken in hunting; especially : wild animals hunted for sport or food (2) : the flesh of game animals b archaic : PLUCK c : a target or object especially of ridicule or attack -- often used in the phrase fair game None of those definitions of game fit my relationship at all. C~ Edited for wonky formatting and also to add, most basely I don't see it as a religion because my owner isn't god or a god.

julietsierra -> RE: Just Thinking.... (4/12/2007 4:26:25 AM)
In my world, "game" means pretense, fakery and all that. It's something you do part time, when the desire arises, kind of an after-dinner activity. I differentiate between the living of my life and the activities within it. I can play a game in that I know and understand the politics of my job and use them to get what I need in order to do my job. That part is the game. Actually doing my job is not a game. To me, even if others see it differently, my job is very important. I play games OFTEN with my family members, but making sure they're cared for, loved and held in high regard by each other and by me is very much NOT a game. I play games often with my Master. They involve gentle teasing that is never aimed at the core of the person. They involve boasts of who will catch the biggest fish, who is the better caster and there's a lot of laughter involved. I do NOT play games with him by pretending to be someone I'm not. I do not play games with him regarding my submissiveness or the respect, caring and love I have for him. I do NOT play manipulation games with him. In my world - in our world, playing games can be fun - lots of fun. However, playing games isn't a way we'd define our world. So, in answer to the original question, calling bdsm a game isn't a threat. It simply is a different mindset than how we tend to look at ourselves and our lives together. As far as religion... he may be the best damn man I've ever known; I may love him more than I ever realized I could; I may even be said to "worship" his cock, but I don't diefy him and while he has many many many wonderful qualities, I don't set him up as my own personal god. Hence, no religion here. He's a man, I'm a woman. We have a life. Sometimes the things we do are fun. Sometimes the things we do are serious. However, what we absolutely do NOT do is pretend with each other. While some may want to pick all that apart, it's all well and good. Afterall, I'm not trying to define anyone else's relationship here - just mine. juliet

Padriag -> RE: Just Thinking.... (4/12/2007 7:44:45 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lady Alaria quote: ORIGINAL: Padriag As for religion, for some of us this style of life has no "mystical" aspect, there is no "spiritual" component, there is no "bondage god" nor is it viewed as a means of reaching "the divine", so it could not be considered a religion. I don't tend to think a mystical element is absolutely required for something to be a religion, it is only one possible aspect. A very good example of a religion that doesn't have a mystical aspect is Atheism. One of the more rigidly dogmatic religions around, and no mystical component at all. Atheism is not a religion, it is the absence of religious belief. And exactly what is "rigidly dogmatic" about it? About the only general statement that can be universally made about atheist is that they do not belief in any religion, nor any higher power.

daddysprop247 -> RE: Just Thinking.... (4/12/2007 7:51:50 AM)
from dictionary.com: religion: 1. a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs. 2. a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion. 3. the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices: a world council of religions. 4. the life or state of a monk, nun, etc.: to enter religion. 5. the practice of religious beliefs; ritual observance of faith. 6. something one believes in and follows devotedly; a point or matter of ethics or conscience: to make a religion of fighting prejudice. using the second and sixth definitions, i can see how the D/s or bdsm lifestyle can be described as a religion for some. for instance, the reason my Master and i live a D/s lifestyle is because it fits with our belief in a natural order, which is something you could say we believe in and follow "religiously."

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