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RE: Mentors/Protectors for newbie Dom/Domme? - 4/22/2005 7:29:55 PM

mistoferin

Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
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quote:

The question is not "Should subs have mentors and why." It's "Can Dominants who are new benefit from mentorship by other dominants?"

I think that all people who are new can benefit from mentorship, so yes, I believe that new Dominants can benefit from being mentored. It is probably even more important in the area of Dominants as one can not learn the fine art of singletailing from a book....just for an example.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to ProtagonistLily)

Post #: 21

RE: Mentors/Protectors for newbie Dom/Domme? - 4/22/2005 8:54:00 PM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
Status: offline

quote:

With any luck, someone with the voice of reason will be around to 'talk them down' gently.

Therein lies the point. Who?

quote:

People have to live and learn in order to gain their self confidence.

Not really, they just have to not be afraid to let others know what they don't know. Sometimes it takes confidence just to ask a question, especially if you identify yourself as a "Dom" and are supposed to know everything.

btw Beardyman - Our welcome to you and delilah to the Boards! Did you catch anthing the day the picture from your profile was taken?

(in reply to BeardyMan1970)

Post #: 22

RE: Mentors/Protectors for newbie Dom/Domme? - 4/22/2005 8:57:11 PM

FuriousAngel

Posts: 102
Joined: 1/18/2005
Status: offline

What a great thread!

When the term mentor is taken into context as Merc described it, then yes, I agree that people should utlize the wisdom of others in this lifestyle, draw upon and learn from them. I also strongly agree that it appears the ratio of submissives who seek help far outweighs that of Dominants. I am always immediately impressed when I see a Dominant express he is new and is genuinely seeking to learn about the lifestyle.

In my own observations, I have found that the very small handful of Dominants I've seen step forward in search of help do not get nearly the support that 'new submissives' do. Interestingly enough, I also notice that people are more receptive to new Dommes seeking advice. It seems people flock to help submissives, are receptive to offering guidance to Dommes, but the majority grow meek in advising Dominants.

Sadly, I've seen many situations where Dom's who are open enough to seek wisdom, end up being cornered and treated with hostility. In most cases, it is because they have said something that makes most lifestyler's deem them a wanna be. I feel this is unfair as in many cases, the reason they are stepping forward is because they seek information. I've witnessed it time and time again, and it's disappointing.

Perhaps this is part of the problem? The lack of reception and the scorn they are often faced with? It can be discouraging, not to mention, if other Dominants see this activity, why would they want to come forward? I'm also left to wonder why I don't witness the same behaviour towards Dommes? Obviously it's a gender issue. Those who do corner the Dominants are usually Dom's themselves, but I also witness a small handful of catty submissives jump aboard.

Merc, I think it's wonderful that you've raised the question about Dominants/Dommes seeking mentors. Hopefully it will start a trend of making others more receptive to offering support to Dominants/Dommes in the lifestyle.

(in reply to EmeraldSlave2)

Post #: 23

RE: Mentors/Protectors for newbie Dom/Domme? - 4/22/2005 9:07:32 PM

stormsfate

Posts: 849
Joined: 2/1/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ProtagonistLily

fate,

I agree that "mentor/protector" is often abused where subs/slaves are concerned and I agree that a sexual relationship can break that relationship down. But don't you think that the Doms need Mentors too?

L

Absolutely...particularly when they are learning new toys <weg>.

best regards,
f

_____________________________

Vision? What do you know about MY vision? My vision would turn your world upside down, tear asunder your illusions and the sanctuary of your own ignorance crashing down around you! Now ask yourself, are you really ready to see that vision? [/size

(in reply to ProtagonistLily)

Post #: 24

RE: Mentors/Protectors for newbie Dom/Domme? - 4/22/2005 9:10:53 PM

FuriousAngel

Posts: 102
Joined: 1/18/2005
Status: offline

quote:

I dont think SUBS should NEED a protector/mentor! They are independent adults. There's NO REASON they should need someone as a watchdog to make sure they act like one. It lets subs act like passive, ineffective, mindless pieces of ass and fosters an environment of dependence.

I understand the message you are stressing here, but I disagree slightly in that lack of wisdom and experience combined with curiousity and desire to explore can make even the most intelligent of submissives/Dominants make bad choices. I consider myself to be extremely emotionally and mentally intelligent. I am far from passive or mindless.

However, five years ago when I was introduced to this lifestyle I made a horribly unwise choice and I got hurt. Did I know it was 'wrong' to do? Yes, I was fully aware that 'no woman in her right mind would even consider it'. I had also entered into a world where all the 'rules' of 'society's normalcy' were different.

I thought that if I wanted to explore the world, I had to be willing to take risks and that included setting aside 'normalcy' in some decision making, particularly regarding safety. It was not because I thought the Dom was in charge and I had to obey. I wanted answers, and truly believed that it was the chance you took in this lifestyle.

Had I have had a mentor I'd have had the information to know that this lifestyle does not mean I have to throw caution to the wind. I'd have known it should be the opposite extreme when it came to my safety. I've also heard of horror stories about Dominants who became accused of wrong doing because of their own bad decisions.

I do not have a 'mentor' in the context of 'one person who guides me'. I have a select group of individuals both Dominants and submissives who I turn to for advice, support, and knowledge. Each of them are unique in their own way, but they allow me personal insight that I can relate to on a more personal level. The diversity also offers me much to consider in myself, and to expand my horizons.

< Message edited by FuriousAngel -- 4/22/2005 9:16:11 PM >

(in reply to FuriousAngel)

Post #: 25

RE: Mentors/Protectors for newbie Dom/Domme? - 4/22/2005 9:13:17 PM

stormsfate

Posts: 849
Joined: 2/1/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ProtagonistLily

Unfortunately, this thread got hijacked....

The question is not "Should subs have mentors and why." It's "Can Dominants who are new benefit from mentorship by other dominants?"

I think this is an excellent topic and would like to hear others talk about it.

Lily

Ooops! Guess that was me <hanging head in shame> Back to your regularly scheduled program now..and a warm thanks goes out to Lily for pointing out what I overlooked in the first thread...lol.

best regards,
fate

_____________________________

Vision? What do you know about MY vision? My vision would turn your world upside down, tear asunder your illusions and the sanctuary of your own ignorance crashing down around you! Now ask yourself, are you really ready to see that vision? [/size

(in reply to ProtagonistLily)

Post #: 26

RE: Mentors/Protectors for newbie Dom/Domme? - 4/22/2005 10:06:33 PM

sub4hire

Posts: 6775
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

quote:

When a person applies for membership to the group they are welcomed. Very soon after they are "interviewed" by members of the board. The interview is really just conversation regarding your personal thoughts on the lifestyle and what you are looking to get out of it, not a put you on the spot formal interview. Based upon your own personality and what you are trying to achieve, you are assigned a mentor. Experienced submissives mentor submissives and experienced Dominants mentor dominants. Any interactions between mentors and newcomers that is found to be unscrupulous is reason for banishment from the group. There is also safeguards in place for if the mentor you are originally assigned is just not someone you "click" with. You can always request a change.

We have a group very much like the one you are referring to out here. Not many people like it. It is mostly considered a players group. It is the group you belong to, to play. Not much else in the form of education or anything else.
In all actuality the group was formed as an offshoot of my group I run. When I would not allow a small group of people use the name of my group for an anything goes party.
It is all personal preference.

(in reply to mistoferin)

Post #: 27

RE: Mentors/Protectors for newbie Dom/Domme? - 4/23/2005 5:32:12 AM

mistoferin

Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline

quote:

Not much else in the form of education or anything else.

Gloria,
I can tell you that the group I referred to differs from the one you are talking about greatly. They are also one of the most active groups educationally. I have attended several of their educational lecture/demo events and was amazed at the turn outs. They have had some very well known and reputable speakers whose names I am sure would be well recognized.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to sub4hire)

Post #: 28

RE: Mentors/Protectors for newbie Dom/Domme? - 4/23/2005 6:21:50 AM

ProtagonistLily

Posts: 1222
Joined: 12/27/2004
Status: offline

quote:

quote:

ORIGINAL: ProtagonistLily

Unfortunately, this thread got hijacked....

The question is not "Should subs have mentors and why." It's "Can Dominants who are new benefit from mentorship by other dominants?"

I think this is an excellent topic and would like to hear others talk about it.

Lily

Ooops! Guess that was me <hanging head in shame> Back to your regularly scheduled program now..and a warm thanks goes out to Lily for pointing out what I overlooked in the first thread...lol.

best regards,
fate

Nah, sweets, it was a bunch. I just think that this topic doesn't get brought up enough and it's potentially too valuable to get sidetracked. It wasn't personal to you f, or anyone else for that matter. ;)

L

_____________________________

"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind"
~Dr. Seuss~

(in reply to stormsfate)

Post #: 29

RE: Mentors/Protectors for newbie Dom/Domme? - 4/23/2005 9:08:04 AM

darkinshadows

Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
Status: offline

I am with harmony... Mentors are not protectors... or visa versa... maybe thats just a preference of a word.(imo)

I think that the position can be abused. Like I said before, a mentor is IMO, someone who just doesn't know that they are.

I had a friend who was struggling with His Dominance, and it was suggested He 'study' under the 'mentorship' of a Female Dominant. Now my gut reaction was nooooo... and told Him such. Of course, I was accused of 'topping from below' or just pure jealously... but the reality was that what the female Dominant wanted to do was not 'right' for the man under her mentorship. She was in the frame of mind that he should submit to her. To me, this reeked of abuse of power, but because 'i was only sub', my concerns were seen as 'not worth the time'. Now don't get me wrong, I think for some Dominants, a learning period as a submissive can work to help them understand where the sub might be coming from, but for this particular Dominant and situation it was wrong. As it turned out, she did abuse her power on him, and for a while, he left wiitwd but, thankfully, returned and has a wonderful sub.

I think what I am trying to say is that mentorship is a blessing, but only as far as someone is able to be open to listen to another... be it a Dominant or a submissive. Just because Dominants 'say something is gospel' doesn't make it so, and it is important as a community that we keep pushing the fact that what is right for one, isn't always right for another. We are responsible for how the community portrays and is portrayed by others... unless we stand up as a community to support each other, then we as a community will always be struggling 'against the tide'.

Peace and Love

_____________________________

.dark.

...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to ProtagonistLily)

Post #: 30

RE: Mentors/Protectors for newbie Dom/Domme? - 4/23/2005 9:19:20 PM

MadameDahlia

Posts: 2021
Joined: 8/11/2004
From: SoCal aka Hell
Status: offline

I've become friends with a woman through a local Munch. I started calling her my Mentor. In my mind a mentor was anyone you could learn from... and I felt she had a great deal of information to pass on.

That role has evolved a bit. I still consider her a wise figure and somewhere within me I still consider her a mentoring type. However she feels much more comfortable with being a Mommy. And she considers me her daughter in dominance. She looks out for me by arming me with the wisdom she's collected. She doesn't give me mace or tasers set to stun. She doesn't want to approve or deny everyone who shows interest in me. But she does urge me to be safe, trust my gut and learn all that I can.

She considers the other ladies at the Munch mentors. They all have techniques they can pass on. If I express interest in bondage, sounds, medical play or single tails she knows who to put me in contact with.

The way I see it is she's looking out for me so that I can learn more and be as prepared for the ups and downs and all the "whoops" moments life will toss my way.

Am I insulted that she cares? Am I insulted that she wants to spend any of her time teaching me? Am I insulted that she wants to refer me to other Dominas who have years and years of hands-on training? Do I think she's trying to impose her wishes on me?

Nope. I'm thrilled that someone I've grown to trust wants to give me her time, effort and motherly affection. She's my BDSM Mommy. And we're both one hundred percent fine with that.

Mentors... protectors... teachers... who gives a crap what they're called as long as we keep the new BDSMers out of Motel 6 with Jack/Jackie the Ripper. I for one am tired of hearing about the teens who go meet with MasterSuckMyCock and MistressBowToMeNow and wind up in landfills or oil drums. I understand that a sedate Munch isn't Man Bites Dog. I'd rather have the news and vanillas with nothing to talk about instead of how evil and horrific any of the decent kinky folk are.

< Message edited by MadameDahlia -- 4/23/2005 9:20:05 PM >

_____________________________

Insanity -- a perfectly rational adjustment to an insane world.
--R. D. Laing

"Oh, but if I went 'round sayin' I was Emperor, just because some moistened bint lobbed a scimitar at me, they'd put me away."

(in reply to darkinshadows)

Post #: 31

RE: Mentors/Protectors for newbie Dom/Domme? - 4/24/2005 2:48:09 AM

Oumae

Posts: 911
Joined: 1/4/2005
Status: offline

I have "friends" whom I talk to about any queries and who I learnt different play techniques off. They include subs, Dom/mes and switches and I am there for them in return.
To me it is about taking responsibility for myself and my actions and for me that means ensuring I am doing things in a safe manner and I learn best from a practical demonstration.
For me having "friends" to help works better than one "mentor" as people have different strengths and outlooks making variety the spice of life.
I think its great that many in the lifestyle will look out for others and are willing to share their knowledge

Oumae

_____________________________

Is cuma le fear na mbrog ca leagann se a chos.
( The man with the boots does not mind where he places his foot)

(in reply to MadameDahlia)

Post #: 32

RE: Mentors/Protectors for newbie Dom/Domme? - 4/24/2005 1:49:41 PM

Rapier

Posts: 8
Joined: 7/17/2004
Status: offline

I have to agree with those for mentoring, more so for Dominants than for submissives. In some sense, if there were more of it going on, it would raise the level of experience people have starting out. It would be an investment in the community overall and might help raise standards.

Unfortunately when I first ventured out into the scene I wasn’t able to make the necessary connection with a Dominant mentor. Because I view mentorship as a power relationship in itself, I couldn’t identify anyone to work with because of what I perceived to be their motives and driving force. I accept that my own personality might have played a large role in discounting potential candidates because initially I was more interested in the credo/philosophy of it all than I was in learning technique. So I learned without the benefit of a formal mentor.

The other side of mentorship is illustrated by my experience with Lady Angelika, which she touched on briefly. It simply made me better; it took me several steps further in my own development. Mentors gain as much by giving of themselves and guiding someone as the one they mentor; another good reason to encourage the practice.

Rapier

(in reply to ProtagonistLily)

Post #: 33

RE: Mentors/Protectors for newbie Dom/Domme? - 4/24/2005 2:41:51 PM

AAkasha

Posts: 4429
Joined: 11/27/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rapier

I have to agree with those for mentoring, more so for Dominants than for submissives. In some sense, if there were more of it going on, it would raise the level of experience people have starting out. It would be an investment in the community overall and might help raise standards.

Unfortunately when I first ventured out into the scene I wasn’t able to make the necessary connection with a Dominant mentor. Because I view mentorship as a power relationship in itself, I couldn’t identify anyone to work with because of what I perceived to be their motives and driving force. I accept that my own personality might have played a large role in discounting potential candidates because initially I was more interested in the credo/philosophy of it all than I was in learning technique. So I learned without the benefit of a formal mentor.

The other side of mentorship is illustrated by my experience with Lady Angelika, which she touched on briefly. It simply made me better; it took me several steps further in my own development. Mentors gain as much by giving of themselves and guiding someone as the one they mentor; another good reason to encourage the practice.

Rapier

I guess none of this resonates with me because I came into bdsm a totally different way. I was tying up boys when I was 15 or 16. I did bondage and roleplaying and created my own "safeword" before I even knew what S&m was. All I did was what my urges told me to do -- and I was terrified of hurting someone, confusing him, or scaring him off -- so communication was incredibly important.

I learned through trial and error and experience -- I'd been doing bondage/teasing games for three years before having sexual intercourse. It wasn't until my 20s that I started reading about "the scene" and I had already established my own style and knew what I liked. There was never any question of "what am I supposed to do? How do I become a good femdom?" -- the answer was to be safe and use common sense, and to balance my relationships so my partner didn't feel like a slab of meat (unless he wanted to).

So maybe I am wrong on all of this. If I didn't start getting into bdsm until my mid or late 20s and had no real life experience yet, and was going to be "playing" with experienced men, sexually active men, men with their own needs/desires I might be overwhelmed. I can see that when I look at it in that light.

My first S&m experiences were so tame, I just grew from there. There's not a lot of risk being a 16 year old playing bondage games with another 16 year old when you aren't even engaging in sex yet.

(Granted, 16 year olds these days are far more wild than I was).

Akasha

_____________________________

Akasha's Web - All original Femdom content since 1995
Don't email me here, email me at [email protected]

(in reply to Rapier)

Post #: 34

RE: Mentors/Protectors for newbie Dom/Domme? - 4/25/2005 4:25:37 PM

LadyAngelika

Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rapier
The other side of mentorship is illustrated by my experience with Lady Angelika, which she touched on briefly. It simply made me better; it took me several steps further in my own development. Mentors gain as much by giving of themselves and guiding someone as the one they mentor; another good reason to encourage the practice.

I agree Sir. It is so wonderful when learning is a two-way street.

- LA

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to Rapier)

Post #: 35

RE: Mentors/Protectors for newbie Dom/Domme? - 4/26/2005 2:17:42 AM

Inquisition

Posts: 7
Joined: 4/25/2005
Status: offline

Hello Mercnbeth, hello All-
I am a newbie Dom who less than a day ago posted in various places around this site that I'm brand-spanking-new to the 24/7 lifestyle, and am interested in the advice and experiences of others who care to chip in their two cents worth. I have to say that I'm impressed with the level of sincereity, interest and intelligent insight that is being expressed in this thread as well as in personal replies to my own postings. Having had mentors in other aspects of my life, and seeing the value of their input and example, I am comfortable in seeking out friends, 'sounding boards', and conversation regarding a wide variety of topics relating to the lifestyle. Signing on with someone for mentorship hasn't been the way I've done it in the vanilla world, instead I've noted a cumulative wisdom emanating from the words and deeds of another and through this cumulative process finally realized that this person, even though they may have never known it, had become my teacher. Sometimes one finds others with greater experience and if the ability to communicate fluidly with that person develops, then a natural mentoring occurs. That's what has worked best for me, not to say that its what would work for others. I've always had a problem with authority figures, so I've never gone to someone looking to be their pupil or to be mentored. Having a dominant personality, its hard to submit to the will of others, so formal education of all sorts was always hard for me to take because of the proscribed Teacher / Student relationship where the student is generally required to act as a sub and treat the teacher like a Dom or Domme. Respect for one's elders is one thing, but having been burned one too many times I came to the conclusion that respect is earned, not given. In all honesty, I do assume a rather high level of respectfulness towards those with greater experience than I, and have learned to not be devastated or even all that concerned if it turns out they have ulterior motives; I just take what fits into my own life lessons and leave the rest. Even a wolf in sheep's clothing can share valid insights with you, the trick is to not let anyone take advantage of you (unless you have a fetish for that sort of thing). Okay, well I've spoken to this point quite long enough for one stint here, suffice it to say that this new Dom isn't seeking a mentor, I'm seeking insights borne of experience. If a lot of those insights come to me from the same person, then oneday I may reflect upon the relationship and say that person was or still is my mentor.

(in reply to LadyAngelika)

Post #: 36

RE: Mentors/Protectors for newbie Dom/Domme? - 4/26/2005 2:24:21 AM

darkinshadows

Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
Status: offline

Welcome to collarme and the forums Inquisition.

I couldn't agree more with what you have said. I truely hope you find your path fruitful and enjoy this board. Looking forward to reading more posts from yourself.

Peace and Love to you and yours

_____________________________

.dark.

...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to Inquisition)

Post #: 37

RE: Mentors/Protectors for newbie Dom/Domme? - 4/26/2005 4:30:32 AM

LadyAngelika

Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline

quote:

Signing on with someone for mentorship hasn't been the way I've done it in the vanilla world, instead I've noted a cumulative wisdom emanating from the words and deeds of another and through this cumulative process finally realized that this person, even though they may have never known it, had become my teacher. Sometimes one finds others with greater experience and if the ability to communicate fluidly with that person develops, then a natural mentoring occurs.

That is always how it has worked for me, whether it be professionally on in the context of wiitwd. I feel it seems less contrived that way. Also, trust has had time to build and the learning happens naturally, not forced.

But I don't knock someone going out and looking for a mentor, though sometimes it takes a bit of time to reach a comfort level between 2 people who know each other less. At least that is how it has been in my experience.

- LA

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to Inquisition)

Post #: 38

RE: Mentors/Protectors for newbie Dom/Domme? - 4/27/2005 6:49:37 AM

Padriag

Posts: 2633
Joined: 3/30/2005
Status: offline

There have been some very good points made already about what mentors are and should be, as well as examples of what they shouldn't be. My personal view is that anyone, dom or sub, can benefit from having a mentor(s) that they can talk with, ask questions of and get feedback and advice from. When I started out in this lifestyle I was very much on my own and had to find my own way. An while I don't regret it, its made me who I am and given me my own uniqueness in how I approach D/s relationships, the lifestyle, dominance, etc., I can look back at all the mistakes I made in the process and I know that some of them could have been avoided if I had had some mentors. Some things could have been easier for me. Specifically, here are some points where I think a mentor could help a new dominant.

Pointing out resources such as essays online, books, media and groups that can all provide useful raw information to the new dominant. We all have to learn but I don't believe its necessary that we each have to "re-invent the wheel" as part of that process.

Giving advice on protocols within the lifestyle, there are many unique forms of etiquette in various groups, and a primer on this would help prevent and smooth over some misunderstandings.

Giving advice on how to handle common situations that arrise with a submissive. For example, how do you create and maintain structure in the relationship? What are appropriate forms of punishment, and what should you use when? How do you deal with resistance in a submissive? When is resistance normal and when does it become bratty behavior? And so forth. Just because someone is dominant doesn't mean they have the skill necessary to enact that dominance.

The irony about this message forum is that everytime we engage in these debates we are all in effect acting as mentors to each other and to anyone who reads what we write. We are teaching each other and hopefully learning from each other. That helps us all grow an become better individually at what we do. Its why I came to these forums, what I enjoy most about them, and why I stay.

_____________________________

Padriag

A stern discipline pervades all nature, which is a little cruel so that it may be very kind - Edmund Spencer

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 39

RE: Mentors/Protectors for newbie Dom/Domme? - 4/29/2005 3:33:45 PM

LordODiscipline

Posts: 995
Joined: 6/28/2004
Status: offline

I do not understand why someone cannot simply cultivate a "friend" (now there is a thought) to go to the munch or event with.

The whole thing about someone "requiring" a mentor or a "protector" I find rather ludicrous as well -seems that we are generating a dependancy of people who are finally stepping out into their desires, vice fostering their new found independancy and desire to be free of previous cultural inhibitions.

If someone wants one... more power to them... but, generally I have found that it is a 'friend' they need more than an overseer.

Just a few thoughts on this.

~J

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 40

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