RE: Imperialism (Full Version)

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Mercnbeth -> RE: Imperialism (4/17/2007 11:52:13 AM)

quote:

I did a quick review of some of the British Charter companies that were instrumental in forming the Empire.
Firm,
THANKS - I didn't want to do that research and other than the East India Company, the rest of the brain cells in charge of storing that knowledge already left the building. 

Historically, though I think the most effective charters given by the British crown were the Pirate "Licenses".

History does not rationalize the present. Current imperialism is limited to international corporations. The are currently identified with the USA, however in the past twenty years, due to tax laws and other regulatory issues Trillions in assets have left our shores. We have the reputation, but the USA is a facade hiding the reality of who really owns and who represents modern day imperialism. Unlike the USA or any country they have no army, don't respond to pressure for social programs, and don't have elected leaders. In other words, they derive all the "conquering" effects of imperialism but don't have to allocate any of their resources to support infrastructure, social services, or security. Nice huh? Imagine the USA's GNP with no cash flow going to welfare, military spending, or social services.

Soon wealthy individuals will follow. Very soon should more be asked of them in tax dollars. Unlike 25 years ago, the USA offers no special reason to remain a resident when places like the Grand Caymans, Bahrain, Costa Rica or even some South Sea Islands welcome the wealthy with open arms. Modern day technology doesn't require USA residency. It was just announced today that over 1 Million people in the USA have over assets in excess of $5 Million. Meanwhile, the number of those living under the "poverty-line" of income is a growth industry and the middle class is shrinking into nonexistence. These are pragmatic facts.  

The downfall started when "USA First" stopped being the priority of the elected politicians. When money from PAC's replaced the money from ordinary citizens so did the shift of influence change. Now citizens have no influence and the corporations represented by PAC's filled the vacuum.

Both these quotes come from the same source.

quote:

Then came the flat-worlders, led by misguided true believers and promoted by multinational corporations. Do away with those tariffs, they said, because they "restrain trade." Let everything in, and tax nothing. The result has been an explosion of cheap goods coming into our nation, and the loss of millions of good manufacturing jobs and thousands of manufacturing companies. Entire industry sectors have been wiped out.


Here is a short list of imperialism at work and thriving today:
quote:

Today, foreigners awash with our consumer dollars are on a two-decades-long buying spree. The UK's BP bought Amoco for $48 billion - now Amoco's profits go to England. Deutsche Telekom bought Voice-Stream Wireless, so their profits go to Germany, which is where most of the profits from Random House, Allied Signal, Chrysler, Doubleday, Cyprus Amax's US Coal Mining Operations, GTE/ Sylvania, and Westinghouse's Power Generation profits go as well. Ralston Purina's profits go to Switzerland, along with Gerber's; TransAmerica's profits go to The Netherlands, while John Hancock Insurance's profits go to Canada. Even American Bankers Insurance Group is owned now by Fortis AG in Belgium.
Foreign companies are buying up our water systems, our power generating systems, our mines, and our few remaining factories. All because "flat world" so-called "free trade" policies have turned us from a nation of wealthy producers into a nation of indebted consumers, leaving the world awash in dollars that are easily used to buy off big chunks of America. Source: http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3861/is_200603/ai_n17185983 




juliaoceania -> RE: Imperialism (4/17/2007 11:54:26 AM)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greg_Palast




meatcleaver -> RE: Imperialism (4/17/2007 12:17:54 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

Most of the commercial concerns shared the direct responsibility to the Crown for their activities.  In the early stages, even if they were not de jure instruments of British sovereignity, they were de facto.

FirmKY


You misunderstand the signifcance of the Crown, it doesn't mean that the monarch is in charge of anything. Blair took Britain to war in the name of the Crown, the Crown has no choice in the matter, it doesn't even have to be consulted. When something is done in the name of the crown it means it has been voted on in Parliament or controled by laws past by Parliament. There is no emperor or monarch in charge. The people who make Crown decisions are Parliamentarians and their capitalist cronies, sometimes they are the same people, it is every bit like the decision making in the US. Like I said, the US operates like the British empire did.




meatcleaver -> RE: Imperialism (4/17/2007 12:27:14 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth


Here is a short list of imperialism at work and thriving today:
quote:

Today, foreigners awash with our consumer dollars are on a two-decades-long buying spree. The UK's BP bought Amoco for $48 billion - now Amoco's profits go to England. Deutsche Telekom bought Voice-Stream Wireless, so their profits go to Germany, which is where most of the profits from Random House, Allied Signal, Chrysler, Doubleday, Cyprus Amax's US Coal Mining Operations, GTE/ Sylvania, and Westinghouse's Power Generation profits go as well. Ralston Purina's profits go to Switzerland, along with Gerber's; TransAmerica's profits go to The Netherlands, while John Hancock Insurance's profits go to Canada. Even American Bankers Insurance Group is owned now by Fortis AG in Belgium.
Foreign companies are buying up our water systems, our power generating systems, our mines, and our few remaining factories. All because "flat world" so-called "free trade" policies have turned us from a nation of wealthy producers into a nation of indebted consumers, leaving the world awash in dollars that are easily used to buy off big chunks of America. Source: http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3861/is_200603/ai_n17185983 



It is laughable for America to complain about corporations from other developed countries because they operate in a world forged by America. What I would call imperialism is developed countries forcing their will on poor countries and exploiting their raw materials.




Mercnbeth -> RE: Imperialism (4/17/2007 1:05:54 PM)

quote:

It is laughable for America to complain about corporations from other developed countries because they operate in a world forged by America. What I would call imperialism is developed countries forcing their will on poor countries and exploiting their raw materials.
Happy to bring laughter to your life MC!

You mistake my factual representation for a complaint. I'd be complaining if I didn't have the opportunity to benefit from this reality. These corporations provide me, and many others, with a personal opportunity to better myself. I make no pretense that my opinions are important or influential. I've been wrong often and have no problem in admitting it regularly. My devout pragmatism isn't blinded by rhetoric from either side, and I make sure to read and research both sides to insure any decision I make is based upon all the information available not just the information that happens to support my opinion or decision. I benefit from the ability to be flexible when it comes to self improvement. Recently my "green" investments have done very well. I believe in the Easter Bunny more so than "Global Warming" but that is immaterial.

As it exists today I compare my favoring of the USA and its interest similarly to rooting for the NY Yankees. I may at times get emotionally involved, but my goals and my life aren't impacted.  When the USA becomes a place I can no longer afford to live in the manner I prefer, I'll leave and "root, root, root," from afar.

You now identify imperialism as a "us versus them" scenario. The result of this concept is that every "developed country" is imperialistic. Or is there a developed country in the world who is not in some capacity benefiting directly or indirectly from raw materials from another source?

What "will" is being forced on Iraq? Our soldiers are dieing in support of Iraqi "will" which is why I don't support them and want them returned to the USA. If there is another "will" other than President Bush avenging his father as some modern day 'Hamlet'; I don't see any benefit coming to the USA. 




Sinergy -> RE: Imperialism (4/17/2007 5:31:05 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

You giving the title of two books without providing any sort of analysis or supporting information to back up why they will answer the question of how American companies will make money from Iraq oil contracts with non-American firms seems to me to not be worth the bandwidth it is printed on.

I don't consider the single sentence "These two books should help clear up any misunderstandings you might have." much in the way of an answer.

FirmKY


I made statements.  You challenged them.  I provided my source materials.

Then you make snarky comments about my not making the statements.

Um.  Ok.

Sinergy




FirmhandKY -> RE: Imperialism (4/17/2007 7:04:02 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

You giving the title of two books without providing any sort of analysis or supporting information to back up why they will answer the question of how American companies will make money from Iraq oil contracts with non-American firms seems to me to not be worth the bandwidth it is printed on.

I don't consider the single sentence "These two books should help clear up any misunderstandings you might have." much in the way of an answer.


I made statements.  You challenged them.  I provided my source materials.

Then you make snarky comments about my not making the statements.


Any "snark" you may have seen were your very own words repeated back to you.  That's why I put them in italics.  [sm=biggrin.gif]

And you still haven't answered the question.

Proof?

Go read The Taj Mahal, Oil and Seersucker Suits by Alma Beater, or Liberalism is a Mental Disorder by Michael Savage.

Take that!  [:D]

FirmKY




juliaoceania -> RE: Imperialism (4/17/2007 7:08:17 PM)

quote:

Go read The Taj Mahal, Oil and Seersucker Suits by Alma Beater, or Liberalism is a Mental Disorder by Michael Savage.


You do realize the difference between Greg Palast and these people don' t you? One goes out and investigates evidence that he comes across and the other (savage) spews hate rhetoric and opinion... Palast is not in the politics business, he is in the journalism business... just clarifying for you because you seem very confused.




FirmhandKY -> RE: Imperialism (4/17/2007 7:22:01 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

Go read The Taj Mahal, Oil and Seersucker Suits by Alma Beater, or Liberalism is a Mental Disorder by Michael Savage.


You do realize the difference between Greg Palast and these people don' t you? One goes out and investigates evidence that he comes across and the other (savage) spews hate rhetoric and opinion... Palast is not in the politics business, he is in the journalism business... just clarifying for you because you seem very confused.



Oh?  So you've read Alma Beater's masterpiece?  Where did you find it?  It's been out of print for a while.  [:)]

Seriously now ...

And Savage isn't really any different than that Perkins guy, except that Perkins guy tries to pass his opinion off as facts to make a point, while Savage blantantly says what is his opinion.

Regardless, you seem to be missing my point by quoting titles of books, instead of addressing the point that was brought up.

FirmKY




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