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RE: Radical Career Changes - 4/15/2007 11:13:26 PM

popeye1250

Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Something's wrong when two degrees aren't "enough."

What always fascinates me are people who think the whole reason to get a degree is to get a job.

What ever happened to the simple pursuit of knowledge?

Sinergy

People who like knowing things are not very well regarded in the USA. I think some people fear those with a lot of degrees, other people just do not understand them, still others think that a person's worth can only be measured by the dollar amount on their portfolio. It is very sad that celebrities, athletes, and musicians are all better regarded, get more respect, and make gobs more money than teachers do. It shows where our priorities in this country are too. Unless someone makes a gob of money what they do just does not count.

Julia, correct. I'm one of the peons with only "one" degree.
And yes, teachers should make more money but unfortunately most of them are on the public payroll.
As for football players etc they're in business not "sports."
As for "knowledge" I get plenty from the intelligent posters in here.

< Message edited by popeye1250 -- 4/15/2007 11:14:33 PM >

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 41

RE: Radical Career Changes - 4/15/2007 11:37:01 PM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

quote:

As for "knowledge" I get plenty from the intelligent posters in here.

I have learned a lot posting here, but I learned far more in college, like how to ask good research questions, how to actually research, how to present knowledge, and how to find the flaws in things presented to me. You have a degree, which is not the be all end all of knowing things, it is only the beginning of becoming an informed citizen. Learning is a life long endeavor.

Some people are born to research things, to ask questions, and to find flaws in other people's research. What these people do is of great value to our collective knowledge, because what one person finds out, another person adds to. In fact it is of great value even if everything you "discover" ends up a load of BS, because something else may be found out because of your false start. Each new discovery leads to more discoveries. It is the people earning their advanced degrees that do the lion's share of the research at institutions of higher learning. They go to school for free in return for their work under a professor, that professor takes credit for the research/work that their graduate students do. You may not think this is of value, but it is of tremendous value to research universities like Emory, Stanford, and UCLA....

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to popeye1250)

Post #: 42

RE: Radical Career Changes - 4/16/2007 1:06:51 AM

wandersalone

Posts: 4666
Joined: 11/21/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Has anyone here done a mid-life career change, to a totally different kind of work and environment? How did it go? What were the challenges? How long to overcome the culture shock?

I am going to mention a few challenges theat people may face when starting new jobs-
-increased anxiety about a different job, different people, different tasks etc etc
-having to make new friends in the workplace if you have come from a place where you have built friendships over time (similar to what happens when people change schools)
- travel times may be quite different
-work hours could be different
-feeling overwhelmed when learning new tasks - don't forget to remind people that you are new and may not do things as fast as others initially
- the workplace culture can take a while to learn-what do and don't they talk about in the office, do they go out for drinks after work, are they allowed to make personal calls during work, is it predominantly male or female or a mix
- it may take longer to get ready for work (need to wake up earlier, leave home at a different time to avoid peak hour traffic)
- you need to figure out your learning style to help you with the transition in the new job - eg aural, visual or (damn I can't think of the precise word....) experiential ie. learn by listening, watching or doing

How long it will take you to feel comfortable in the new job and overcome the initial discomfort will depend upon a heap of things including how well you like the new place, what your colleagues are like, family support, and whether you feel the new position is a step in the direction you wish to take in the future.

Just a reminder, most people will make on average about 5 MAJOR career changes in their lives compared with people a generation or two ago who would make at most one or two major changes. I work with people of all ages including those in their late 50's early 60's who are having to look at totally new work directions. I am in about my 4th very different type of job and am starting to think about what will be the next change.

I wish you all the best.

_____________________________

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. Martin Luther King
Godmother of the subbie mafia
My all time favourite threads
http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=2002501
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(in reply to TheHeretic)

Post #: 43

RE: Radical Career Changes - 4/16/2007 2:34:07 AM

Vendaval

Posts: 10297
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline

Makes sense to me, just be sure to get your hair trimmed
and shoes shined for the inspection and interrogation...
err...I mean interviews by panel.

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic
You had to go and remind me about the wardrobe, didn't you, Vendaval?
I'll run up those credit cards AFTER I get hired.

_____________________________

"Beware, the woods at night, beware the lunar light.
So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
great day, I will tease you all the same."
"WOLF MOON", OCTOBER RUST, TYPE O NEGATIVE

http://KinkMeet.co.uk

(in reply to TheHeretic)

Post #: 44

RE: Radical Career Changes - 4/16/2007 10:19:39 AM

popeye1250

Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

As for "knowledge" I get plenty from the intelligent posters in here.

I have learned a lot posting here, but I learned far more in college, like how to ask good research questions, how to actually research, how to present knowledge, and how to find the flaws in things presented to me. You have a degree, which is not the be all end all of knowing things, it is only the beginning of becoming an informed citizen. Learning is a life long endeavor.

Some people are born to research things, to ask questions, and to find flaws in other people's research. What these people do is of great value to our collective knowledge, because what one person finds out, another person adds to. In fact it is of great value even if everything you "discover" ends up a load of BS, because something else may be found out because of your false start. Each new discovery leads to more discoveries. It is the people earning their advanced degrees that do the lion's share of the research at institutions of higher learning. They go to school for free in return for their work under a professor, that professor takes credit for the research/work that their graduate students do. You may not think this is of value, but it is of tremendous value to research universities like Emory, Stanford, and UCLA....

Julia, after college I never did any "research papers" again.
I had to do a "report" once but that's about it.
When you graduate and get a job they'll teach you "their way."
In the job I had, (Insurance) I never used anything I learned in college.
When I was doing research papers in college I wasn't looking for "flaws" in other's work I was looking for facts and figures.

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 45

RE: Radical Career Changes - 4/16/2007 11:48:26 AM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

quote:

Julia, after college I never did any "research papers" again.
I had to do a "report" once but that's about it.
When you graduate and get a job they'll teach you "their way."
In the job I had, (Insurance) I never used anything I learned in college.
When I was doing research papers in college I wasn't looking for "flaws" in other's work I was looking for facts and figures.

Actually I am looking for a job in which reports and research would figure prominently. I am good at that, and you know what, everyone has their "niche". If you do not think that the ability to research is important, try one day having a property line dispute with your neighbor and see how important the ability to find information to back your claims really is...

My department at my university specializes in turning out students that are qualified for graduate work, some of us have went on to Stanford and Yale. So perhaps I was in a different sort of department at a different sort of university at a different era of time.

I think that you seem to believe if a skill is not of value to YOU then it is not of value at all, that seems to be what you are conveying here with a statement of how many research papers YOU have had to write since college. BTW, my Daddy alone would have me write research papers if he felt like it, much less anyone I may work for...winks.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to popeye1250)

Post #: 46

RE: Radical Career Changes - 4/19/2007 7:42:41 AM

TheHeretic

Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline

The suit is out, the shoes are shiny. I interview in a little over two hours.

Good thoughts will be welcomed.

(in reply to Vendaval)

Post #: 47

RE: Radical Career Changes - 4/19/2007 11:12:00 AM

Vendaval

Posts: 10297
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline

So how did the interview go, Rich?

Did you have the mental picture of the interviewers
being dressed in only their underwear?

Was that a pleasing or a frightening mental image?

Do tell now!

_____________________________

"Beware, the woods at night, beware the lunar light.
So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
great day, I will tease you all the same."
"WOLF MOON", OCTOBER RUST, TYPE O NEGATIVE

http://KinkMeet.co.uk

(in reply to TheHeretic)

Post #: 48

RE: Radical Career Changes - 4/19/2007 12:00:05 PM

TheHeretic

Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline

It went well, Vendaval. I was about a nervous wreck right up until I parked and took the lint roller to the suit, but ok after that. Now I wait to hear back from them.

I guess it's just a question of whether my willingness to learn will offset my lack of formal experience. The head of the panel complimented me on my tie and I told him he could have it. Think that might help?

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.

(in reply to Vendaval)

Post #: 49

RE: Radical Career Changes - 4/19/2007 4:53:27 PM

Sinergy

Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

As for "knowledge" I get plenty from the intelligent posters in here.

I have learned a lot posting here, but I learned far more in college, like how to ask good research questions, how to actually research, how to present knowledge, and how to find the flaws in things presented to me. You have a degree, which is not the be all end all of knowing things, it is only the beginning of becoming an informed citizen. Learning is a life long endeavor.

Some people are born to research things, to ask questions, and to find flaws in other people's research. What these people do is of great value to our collective knowledge, because what one person finds out, another person adds to. In fact it is of great value even if everything you "discover" ends up a load of BS, because something else may be found out because of your false start. Each new discovery leads to more discoveries. It is the people earning their advanced degrees that do the lion's share of the research at institutions of higher learning. They go to school for free in return for their work under a professor, that professor takes credit for the research/work that their graduate students do. You may not think this is of value, but it is of tremendous value to research universities like Emory, Stanford, and UCLA....

Julia, after college I never did any "research papers" again.
I had to do a "report" once but that's about it.
When you graduate and get a job they'll teach you "their way."
In the job I had, (Insurance) I never used anything I learned in college.
When I was doing research papers in college I wasn't looking for "flaws" in other's work I was looking for facts and figures.

I only wanted to do my statistical and performance analysis of a large heterogenous network. I had my terminal. I had my source materials. I had my raw data. I had my text processing program (LaTex). I had my cup of coffee.

But my boss noticed something in me. Mr. PerformanceAndInternalsExpertWithALiberalArtsDegree.

He told me one day that he was appointing me technical editor in addition to my other duties.

I screamed in horror. I whined. I insisted I was not worthy. I threatened to go back to school and get a technical degree like everybody else.

He patiently looked at me until I broke down into jagged sobbing and said...

"Yes, but you are the only person who works here that knows how to write an understandable English sentence about a technical subject. Additionally, you know what end of a sentence the period goes on."

So I got to rewrite the idiotic gibberish that people with MS and PhDs in Aerospaz science, Physics, Computer Science, etc., wrote about Technical and/or Classified Stuff into proper English.

Then I got to translate the technical questions asked by the customer (using proper English) into the technical pidgin used by the engineers.

I lived that horror for 6 years.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle

(in reply to popeye1250)

Post #: 50

RE: Radical Career Changes - 4/19/2007 4:53:35 PM

Vendaval

Posts: 10297
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline

Sounds like you made a good impression.
Do you know how many other candidates are applying?

You could always offer to be the interviewer's personal
assistant, help him with his wardrobe, etc.

_____________________________

"Beware, the woods at night, beware the lunar light.
So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
great day, I will tease you all the same."
"WOLF MOON", OCTOBER RUST, TYPE O NEGATIVE

http://KinkMeet.co.uk

(in reply to TheHeretic)

Post #: 51

RE: Radical Career Changes - 4/19/2007 5:10:08 PM

TheHeretic

Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline

No idea how many others. I know someone else had an interview this afternoon. They told me they already hired for it once, but the woman quit after 1 day. Training consists of being thrown in the deep end.

I'm in that rotten spot right now, second guessing myself. "Don't stress over what you can't control" is one of those platitudes that falls from the lips so easily, but can be harder than hell to live by when it's your turn.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.

(in reply to Vendaval)

Post #: 52

RE: Radical Career Changes - 4/19/2007 5:12:45 PM

Vendaval

Posts: 10297
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline

Well, relax and enjoy your weekend with the wife.
Get out of the house and do something fun.
Stay busy and keep from fretting about it.

_____________________________

"Beware, the woods at night, beware the lunar light.
So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
great day, I will tease you all the same."
"WOLF MOON", OCTOBER RUST, TYPE O NEGATIVE

http://KinkMeet.co.uk

(in reply to TheHeretic)

Post #: 53

RE: Radical Career Changes - 4/19/2007 5:19:03 PM

Sinergy

Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

No idea how many others. I know someone else had an interview this afternoon. They told me they already hired for it once, but the woman quit after 1 day. Training consists of being thrown in the deep end.

I'm in that rotten spot right now, second guessing myself. "Don't stress over what you can't control" is one of those platitudes that falls from the lips so easily, but can be harder than hell to live by when it's your turn.

What always helped me get through those times, TheHeretic, was to continue in my quest to find a job despite the fact that I was hoping for an offer.

I had a friend who would interview and wait 4 weeks for them to get back to him.

He was unemployed for 1.5 years using that approach.

While I was technically looking for a full time gig for 3 years, I was never technically unemployed for more than 2 weeks because I would get offers for short term contracts. Until I had a job in my hot, little, hand, I was always looking for a job, which means I was spending my waking hours on my job search.

You will survive and succeed.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle

(in reply to TheHeretic)

Post #: 54

RE: Radical Career Changes - 4/19/2007 5:41:40 PM

TheHeretic

Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline

      I hate to think they'd leave me hanging that long. It's a small office and the desk is sitting empty (small desk too).

     My current employer is certainly keeping me motivated to find a better one. They didn't bother to send a replacement today, so I get to do two days worth of work tomorrow.



_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.

(in reply to Sinergy)

Post #: 55

RE: Radical Career Changes - 4/20/2007 3:35:20 PM

TheHeretic

Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline

GOT IT!!!!!!! Sorry, Ron, but I'm going to need the bananas to really capture the moment....

WOOOO_HOOOO!!!!!

My very soon to be former employer offered a piddling $1 an hour to keep me.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.

(in reply to Vendaval)

Post #: 56

RE: Radical Career Changes - 4/20/2007 3:36:58 PM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

Congratulations Rich

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to TheHeretic)

Post #: 57

RE: Radical Career Changes - 4/20/2007 3:46:29 PM

TheHeretic

Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline

Thank you, Julia. I'm very jazzed about it.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 58

RE: Radical Career Changes - 4/20/2007 6:25:29 PM

Sinergy

Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

It went well, Vendaval. I was about a nervous wreck right up until I parked and took the lint roller to the suit, but ok after that. Now I wait to hear back from them.

I guess it's just a question of whether my willingness to learn will offset my lack of formal experience. The head of the panel complimented me on my tie and I told him he could have it. Think that might help?

You will do well, TheHeretic

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle

(in reply to TheHeretic)

Post #: 59

RE: Radical Career Changes - 4/21/2007 2:27:07 AM

Vendaval

Posts: 10297
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline

You go Rich! How are you and the wife going to celebrate?

_____________________________

"Beware, the woods at night, beware the lunar light.
So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
great day, I will tease you all the same."
"WOLF MOON", OCTOBER RUST, TYPE O NEGATIVE

http://KinkMeet.co.uk

(in reply to TheHeretic)

Post #: 60

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