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RE: Virtually is it real? The cyberdom and cybersub - 4/15/2007 5:03:18 PM   
CypherEnigma


Posts: 62
Joined: 7/24/2005
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I think it is what others have said, it is a personal preference. And i feel to each their own. Online or cyber is all some can do, or want. If that is their thing, and they are happy with it, that is what counts.

(in reply to Celeste43)
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RE: Virtually is it real? The cyberdom and cybersub - 4/15/2007 5:11:52 PM   
crouchingtigress


Posts: 4387
Joined: 3/19/2006
From: Maui
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hello OP any chance you could break the long standing CM tradition and come back to the thread you started and share if you learned anything, and if so what it was....just for shiggles?

_____________________________


Service slut, durable plaything, and ponypenquincatdogpig, to Lee Harrington

This is him

"Its none of my buisness what other people think of me."




(in reply to CypherEnigma)
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RE: Virtually is it real? The cyberdom and cybersub - 4/16/2007 11:23:05 AM   
mystiquenz


Posts: 330
Joined: 8/13/2004
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Greetings A/all

Reality, yours or mine or theirs?

You have had some very good responses TantricOne, and for my two cents at the start of my Tuesday, online is a tool for many, to make the connection, to discover whether two people want to take it from virtual to real.  That is where i am at, at this time.  The Master that i am speaking to lives in the same country, but He is not just an hours drive away, in fact, He is several hours away, and a large stretch of water.  But why would either one of us travel if there was no *draw factor*? 

I would be very disappointed if I discovered at a later time, that he had no intention of meeting me. 

There are many who live their D/s or M/s only online.  I nearly fell out of my chair when i met a slave online who told me that she had been in her Master's collar for the last 12 years.  12 years, and never having had a face to face meeting, 12 years, of being in relationship with a computer and a telephone?  To me, that is a relationship that spans more than many real time vanilla marriages.  As to why they had not met, or chose not to meet, I cannot answer that, as I did not ask those questions.  Maybe he was married, maybe she was married, maybe they both were married and the online experience enhanced their real time relationships.  A whole lot of "maybes". 

Where online falls short, in my opinion, and mine alone, is that you can give of one's time and one's energy for nil return.  You extend apart of your own being, you give of your energy and your time, and yet, life keeps moving on by.  For some, and not all, they live for their online friendships, whereas their real time relationships suffer as a result.  There is a balance. 

I do believe, that online is a safe way to explore mindspace.  Maybe it takes a lot of courage, for many, to make that transition from online to real time.  Maybe some will never make that journey, for reasons only known to them.  Is it real?  Yes it is real in a limited sort of way, but there are limitations, for example, not being able to be touched, not to feel his breath, not to feel the warmth, only keystrokes and pixels can provide that mechanism. 

The Master that i am speaking to said to me just the other day, two things that I will leave as a closing thread:
  • If a girl cannot comply with a direction online, then she is unlikely to comply in realtime.  That has been his past experience, so he takes things slowly, before moving from virtual to reality. 
  • He shared a quote from one of John Norman books the other day, which is abstract in form, but if you think about the words, it is pretty amazing.



"Do not ask the stones or the trees how to live; they cannot tell you; they do not have tongues; do not ask the wise man how to live, for, if he knows, he will know he cannot tell you; if you would learn how to live, do not ask the question; its answer is not in the question but in the answer, which is not in words; do not ask how to live, but, instead, proceed to do so."

In the end I am a realist.  Who knows if there will be the chemistry when I meet this Dominant in the flesh.  If there is nothing more than a greeting of hello, and a thanks but no thanks, then it will be time to put up the profiles again.  From the virtual reality, I have enjoyed many hours sitting after dinner at my keyboard, sipping coffee or tea.  Sharing with him about what has been happening in my insignificant world.  But still living. 

Online is mindspace, and it should be honest.  Where people come to grief, is when they are not honest, where checklists and likings have been protrayed are not accurate.  But then, so too, some people in real time can be not as honest and portrary their  situation which is not really accurate too. 

Although others will say, it is merely fantasy.  Yes it could be fantasy, but how does anyone know, that the person that they are speaking to, is not the one that will be "the one".  I met a dominant face to face in January of this year, and I wished I had taken the time, to "get to know him" in a virtual capacity before meeting with him, before playing with him.  If I had taken the time, i would have saved myself a lot of grief.  There would not have been the deception and the hurt.  So there are pros and cons on both sides of the debate.  People can say anything they choose to say, but some how, you have to have the discernment that their truth is the truth and not just a figment of someone's imagination. 
 

_____________________________

blessings
~mystique~

(in reply to TantricOne)
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RE: Virtually is it real? The cyberdom and cybersub - 4/16/2007 11:31:55 AM   
MasterGremlin


Posts: 230
Joined: 12/30/2006
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For some people this is all mental.  For some it is a fantasy that was never ment to be reality.  It is simply another aspect of D/s bdsm and for them it is very real. 

I know I couldn't do just the mental/fantasy but there are also fantasies that I have that will never become reality.

Sincerely,
minxy

(in reply to TantricOne)
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RE: Virtually is it real? The cyberdom and cybersub - 4/16/2007 11:40:09 AM   
cjenny


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Joined: 11/27/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterFireMaam

It depends on what you're looking for and what motivates you. The two ends of the dichotamy: There are people out there who live in their head. To these people, online activity is the same as, or better than, offline. There are people out there who live in their bodies. To these people, online activity is shunned totally (not just cyber, but all but the most basic communication via the internet) and only physical interaction has real meaning. My girl is like the latter. I'm not so far up that scale; I don't shun online communication so much (as if that's not obvious).

Master Fire



MFM you said exactly what I wish I could have said on my own lol.
Indeed some live within their heads and others within their bodies. It doesn't mean one is more real than the other. I've belonged to R for over 6 years, yes it is an LDR & we meet 5/6 times a year.. I would not trade him for anyone in the world.
Things may be changing  if (hello dismal housing market) I can sell my house I am skedaddling (sp) to Texas to be with him. Yay.
Heya ltns OP, hope all is well with you and yup.. tis real.

_____________________________

*Unless I cite a source it is MO.


~ ssssh. i think i've just found freedom. ~

(in reply to MasterFireMaam)
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RE: Virtually is it real? The cyberdom and cybersub - 4/16/2007 12:01:00 PM   
daddysprop247


Posts: 1712
Joined: 6/24/2005
From: DC Metro area
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sambamanslilgirl

methinks this is another one of those r/t is better than online montage again ...or that a cyberdom/cybersub aren't "twue" because they don't have "real" experience - your opinion. now here's mine. i'm in a committed ldr with Daddy for personal reasons- actually 2 - my UMs. that being said, Daddy and i have a real relationship just like everyone else who has a r/t within their D/s dynamic. i know there are many who look down at cyber D/s however your kink isn't my type of kink and everyone should respect that.

my 2 pennies of the day



i hear the above argument often from folks defending the authenticity of their online D/s relationship. however to me a long distance relationship and a cyber relationship are two very different animals. many people are in long distance relationships due to various life circumstance (altho there is always the eventual goal of living together or at the very least living closer), however the commitment, the care, the lifestyle dynamic is as real and tangible as it between those who live together day in and day out.

otoh, a cyber relationship is one which is based primarily on fantasy and roleplay, those in the "relationship" have no actual involvement in each other's lives, there is no desire for a live-in relationship, lots of cybersex, phone sex, and fantasy "punishments" are dealt out (such as the submissive being ordered to spank themselves). people in cyber relationships imo have no need or desire for anything real or concrete, they just want a nice mental escape from time to time, a way to enjoy the fantasy without actually doing or being anything.


(in reply to sambamanslilgirl)
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RE: Virtually is it real? The cyberdom and cybersub - 4/16/2007 12:43:40 PM   
subiugo


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i am a 'cybersub'. For me that is 'the best possible reality' at this moment. Of course it is a kind of 'compromise'. Because i feel really 'good' with my Mistress, i long to be close to Her, and that is -for many reasons- impossible. So, i have to 'compromise'. But does not every relationship is in some way a 'compromise' - you have to deal with limits in the personal situation of both people concerned.

For me i am willing to make that compromise because my Mistress made thrill 'the string of my submission' much deeper than anyone did before. i am a person who lives 'with his mind', like someone said on this forum, so exchanging words and thoughts is really meaningfull for me. But 'my body' and 'my sexuality' is deeply influenced by this 'mental cyberdomination'. i feel things i never felt before, and often i feel a kind of 'sexual energy' flowing my body like i never felt before.

(in my weblog on this site, i started a kind of 'retrospective diary' of my experience as a cybersub... just two entries now, but those who want to check out...=

(in reply to daddysprop247)
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RE: Virtually is it real? The cyberdom and cybersub - 4/16/2007 12:50:34 PM   
Mercnbeth


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Interesting comments; there were some that seemed exclusionary, others that indicated a need to rationalize investment of time and emotions. All meritorious and good reasons to be active or avoid cyber relationships.

Somethings I thought of in reading the responses.

quote:

MFM: There are people out there who live in their head. To these people, online activity is the same as, or better than, offline. There are people out there who live in their bodies.
People who choose or try top live a M/s or D/s life need to live in their heads as well. Bodies change, break down, and react differently to the same sensation over time. You better have a good idea about what to do while living with partner. If you have any doubt, there is a current post in the Master's section illustrating what happens when you think this lifestyle is a good idea but lack the 'head' to know what to do once being in the physical presence of a partner.
quote:

However, the mental discipline that I instill in my training of slaves online is more important than any red ass could ever be. And when a slave holds herself to it online, that to me is the ultimate test.
"Mental discipline" - Does that mean training or the application of punishment? Punishment indicates failure, not only for the sub/slave but in the communication or training ability of the Dom/Master. A "red ass" resulting from punishment is an indication that my "mental discipline" failed. The "ultimate test" is the ongoing avoidance of punishment.  
quote:

krikket: Can you think of a better way to express yourself than in a letter, or on line in a chat program.
Yes - Touch.

 
quote:

mystiquenz: 12 years, and never having had a face to face meeting, 12 years, of being in relationship with a computer and a telephone?  To me, that is a relationship that spans more than many real time vanilla marriages.
 If I'd had scheduled or limited interaction, the ability to turn off the sound, or not "log-on" at all for days; I may have been celebrating my 24th wedding anniversary last October.

quote:

MasterGremlin: For some people this is all mental. 
As it is, even if there is some of it that is all physical.

quote:

cjenny: Indeed some live within their heads and others within their bodies.
And never the twain shall meet? Without a "head" the body dies. Living a purely physical sensation existence would be as boring for me as would a purely mental be frustrating.

Tried my best to avoid any judgmental language. Hope I did a service to the use of the written word.

(in reply to TantricOne)
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RE: Virtually is it real? The cyberdom and cybersub - 4/17/2007 3:21:38 PM   
MasterMagnus321


Posts: 86
Joined: 10/4/2005
Status: offline
My experience includes both online D/s experiences and r/t, some of which have developed from relationships begun online... and for me, it has been true that the r/t meeting added depth and dynamics to the reality that were not there before (obviously).  Therefore, in my experience, online D/s has and will be "good," but will always remain limited... without taking things to the next level, ( a r/t meeting), other online D/s relationships have just faded away...

_____________________________

Nothing lasts, and yet nothing passes, either.
And nothing passes just because nothing lasts.
-Philip Roth

~MASTERMAGNUS

(in reply to TantricOne)
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RE: Virtually is it real? The cyberdom and cybersub - 4/17/2007 4:05:53 PM   
Casie


Posts: 450
Joined: 1/5/2006
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This like asking if Coke or Pepsi is better. It's all personal perference. Do I want to get my jollies off through an IM window...no. Do I care if others do?..nope. 

(in reply to MasterMagnus321)
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RE: Virtually is it real? The cyberdom and cybersub - 4/18/2007 3:40:24 AM   
darkinshadows


Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TantricOne

Oh, I forgot to mention sex, something that really doesn't happen for real unless face-to-face lol

For someone using the name "Tantric One" - one has to say that your statement is kind of ironic...
 
Peace and Rapture


_____________________________


.dark.




...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to TantricOne)
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RE: Virtually is it real? The cyberdom and cybersub - 4/18/2007 3:49:57 AM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TantricOne

Just wondering is it real d/s, fear to take it to the next level, in person? Aside from general exploration, seems that the physicality is left out, conveniently disregarding r/t punishment/reward, for a mental exercise. To truly practice the lifestyle, is not active participation within each other's lives just as important as words on a screen? One would think so lol. And what if an actual meeting were to occur, a more definite bond because of cyberspace, or dissapointment with reality? Scening is an important part of the dynamics as well. Any comments appreciated, thanks


Have you forgotten that not all punishment revolves around pain? Or that people have courted each other via letters as long as the written word has existed? For that matter, what you seem to regard as effective punishment I regard as worthless as such. A spanking, which must be delivered in person, does little to curtail bad behavior. It only encourages. However, writing out a thousand lines, which can be assigned from anywhere, does curtail bad behavior.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to TantricOne)
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RE: Virtually is it real? The cyberdom and cybersub - 4/18/2007 3:51:06 AM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TantricOne

Oh, I forgot to mention sex, something that really doesn't happen for real unless face-to-face lol


Are you aware that not all d/s relationships revolve around sex? Some exclude it completely.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to TantricOne)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Virtually is it real? The cyberdom and cybersub - 4/18/2007 4:22:36 AM   
redsky


Posts: 228
Joined: 12/28/2006
From: UK
Status: offline
virtual reality = virtual insanity! hehehe

i was mostly 'online' with my first Master, we lasted three years & even though we met & started into R/T it was the distance that broke us.

i now have Master Jake, who for the moment is 'online' but hopefully soon will be both online & R/T. i dont mind people not liking me when i say im 'online only' what suits me doesnt suit everyone, i would never ask someone to come round to my way of thinking & would expect the same from others.
Some people have reasons to do this online rather than R/T.....i didnt think i could learn as much as i have without being R/T only.
to me, its as real as i want it to be.

_____________________________



(in reply to AquaticSub)
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RE: Virtually is it real? The cyberdom and cybersub - 4/18/2007 5:21:12 AM   
MissUnleaded


Posts: 60
Joined: 8/26/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TantricOne
Just wondering is it real d/s, fear to take it to the next level, in person? Aside from general exploration, seems that the physicality is left out, conveniently disregarding r/t punishment/reward, for a mental exercise. To truly practice the lifestyle, is not active participation within each other's lives just as important as words on a screen? One would think so lol. And what if an actual meeting were to occur, a more definite bond because of cyberspace, or dissapointment with reality? Scening is an important part of the dynamics as well. Any comments appreciated, thanks


Is this the thread where you apparently made people mad?

To answer the question:  For some people, cyber is all they can have.   A lot of people get married before discovering kink and cyber gives them an outlet for their fantasies without jeopardising their families.  Other people may live in remote areas without the possibility of meeting like minded people.  Still others may hold 'sensitive' positions and worry about being found out.  There are no doubt some who are scared to take it real, and some who have experienced real life and simply prefer cyber.  Adults should know themselves well enough to figure out what they want and they are certainly in a better position to decide that than you or I.

I've experienced both cyber and real life bdsm relationships.  I think the cyber/LD relationship was 'real' in the sense that I really cared for him and really wanted to be with him, but it was also not real because our relationship was essentially a shared fantasy.  We spent many hours per week chatting online and talking on the phone and met each other in person a few times, but it was mostly a co-created fiction.  It eventually fizzled out after a couple of years.  I guess it was a bit like eating fairy floss: tasted really nice but ulimately there wasn't much nourishment. 

The cyber relationship in no way prepared me for the physical reality of BDSM.  It is so much easier to talk about crawling to your master, being pissed on, paddled or whatever.  For a start, in cyber land the floors aren't cold and hard (why do Swedes like hardwood floors so much?), piss doesn't taste so bad and your Master doesn't deliberately hit the same place, hard, over and over again.  Wax play doesn't tickle, itch and hurt all at the same time and it doesn't make you giggle uncontrollably.  You're not self concious about your wobbly bits and try to hide them.

I don't care to what level people take their relationships.   All I will say about it is that I believe that having X years in cyber training does not in any way qualify you to make pronouncements about real-life bdsm.  That's all.

(in reply to TantricOne)
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RE: Virtually is it real? The cyberdom and cybersub - 4/18/2007 7:31:15 AM   
hereyesruponyou


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One of my deepest emotional relationships was primarily online with a few phone calls. He was across the pond and we were both married at the time. It seemed like it was "okay" because it was just words, but honestly it wasn't. Eventually it was the actually the deep connection that made us stop. When you realize how much it can affect your everyday life it can be scary. There were also more sexual reactions (physically) than i've had in many relationships. And the break up hurt just as much as if we had been together. It was the sharing of thoughts, hopes and dreams, feelings that made it real to us.

It did ruin me on online line play. We were both very good at writing scenarios and wrote each other stories as well as doing some role play. I find i am not able to do that anymore. Perhaps it is because i have not found another person with whom i have connected this way online.

I have had real life play that while being fun was fairly meaningless to me as well. It seems for me the connection is more important than the distance.  I respect everyone else's desires and feel that no one else knows what is in someone elses heart unless you are them.

(in reply to MissUnleaded)
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RE: Virtually is it real? The cyberdom and cybersub - 4/18/2007 11:37:00 AM   
Donnalee


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Joined: 7/15/2006
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I think that all forms of communication...(the ones mentioned here and others) are just that:  forms of communication.  What happens to me/within me/or what I do once I've received a piece of communication pretty much depends on who I am and how I feel at the moment. 

I think the 'cyber = real or not' debate stirs up the pot and every now and then an interesting way of looking at it surfaces.  If I'm looking for a way to find value in mine or anyone else's relationship, I can find them.....just as easily as if I'm looking for a way to devalue them...in the end, it's what I choose to attend to that will decide. 

Personally, I've enjoyed Noah's writing on the topic.

Something in a similar vein came up at the diner this morning:  a friend's son refused to "believe" and act like he got accepted to the college he applied to until he called the college and spoke with the admissions department.  Only then was it real for him:  when he spoke to a live person in real time.  The acceptance letter that does the job for thousands of freshmen each year meant zip to him.  I don't think that kid will be cybering much!  LOL.


_____________________________

Just through all of your ups and downs ... know that I love you dearly.

(in reply to hereyesruponyou)
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