quote:

Responsibility goes with accountability. Government, like people, becomes less responsible as accountability declines. Indeed, it is impossible to have irresponsible people and responsible government as the government is staffed by people. In my day parents and teachers had authority. Today teachers have no authority, which is why they have to call the police to control the kids. Child Protective Service has stripped parents of authority. Children are taught at school to call CPS if they are spanked by parents. Apparently, teachers cannot recognize the decline of their own authority in the decline of parental authority. I remember when a misbehaving kid picked up by the police was turned over to his parents. Today, the kids are taken to jail. Humans are fallible and will fail in their responsibilities to others and do bad things. However, today they fail more often than in the past. The cause is not guns.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Vendaval

What has changed?
 
Well, for starters, the population has greatly increased.
And people are living closer together in urban environments
rather than further apart in rural settings.  The technology
and lethality of firearms has increased dramatically.  The
prices make firearms affordable and thus more available
to most consumers.
 
Homids have always been violent.  But in a less developed
society people do not have access to bombs and machine guns.
We still have the same emotions of fear, anger, loss, jealousy
and rage.  But now we have access to much more lethal and
productive ways to committ violent actions.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer

It's amazingly accuate and timely reguardless of what period of history you're looking at.
I see no hope for the future of our people if they are dependent on the frivolous youth of today, for certainly all youth are reckless beyond words. When I was a boy, we were taught to be discrete and respectful of elders, but the present youth are exceedingly wise and impatient of restraint.

quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

quote:

ORIGINAL: Vendaval

What has changed?
 
Well, for starters, the population has greatly increased.
And people are living closer together in urban environments
rather than further apart in rural settings.  The technology
and lethality of firearms has increased dramatically.  The
prices make firearms affordable and thus more available
to most consumers.
 
Homids have always been violent.  But in a less developed
society people do not have access to bombs and machine guns.
We still have the same emotions of fear, anger, loss, jealousy
and rage.  But now we have access to much more lethal and
productive ways to committ violent actions.

Firearms doesn't have anything to do with it. If you have looked at the studies, western populations have had increasing psychological issues for the past 50 years. And it seems we are truely becoming a society on drugs...not illegal drugs. We put our kids on ritalin. We put our teenagers on prozac. And there are studies now coming out that these drugs may actually be doing some harm.

Are you saying that drugs were the cause of this individual's behavior?


Socially there are many problems as well. Divorce rates are just astronomical. I believe the rate of divorce is over 60%. That means more than half of the people getting married today will be divorced. And believe me, a divorce does effect a child psychologically. Child abuse (physical, emotional, and sexual) are also on the rise. Bullying is out of control in schools across the country. Parents are not as good as they used to be. Teachers are not as good as they used to be.

Are you saying that the shooter was not responsible for his actions?

That is what has changed just in the past generation....

So yes, the technology of guns has increased. But we have always had guns. People that are going on these rampages in schools are doing it because they are seriously disturbed. And these people almost ALWAYS display warning signs. The Columbine kids displayed warning signs for an entire year and everyone ignored it. And now this young man at VT was being ignored when he displayed warning signs. For christ sakes he was writing poetry about kids and teachers being killed over a year ago! And noone did anything about it? That's a cry for help.

The initial reports from classmates and roommates are that he
was non-communicative and quiet; that he rebuffed efforts to
interact with other people.  The English Dept did try to intervene
but because of confidentiality cannot disclose all the facts, nor
can the school mental health professionals for the same reason.

A person that is this lost, disconnected, and literally insane will inflict violence one way or another. Guns are the weapon of choice because they are easily to gain access to. But you take the gun away, you still have a very dangerous and seriously ill individual. And he will find some way to inflict a lot of damage. He can build a bomb. Hell, you can download the instructions off the internet! Or he may become a serial killer. It just takes a slash to the throat to kill someone.

Read the second sentence in my last paragraph.
I include bombs in that statement.

There are also 80 million firearms in the United States. 42% of American households say they have a gun in the home. Now considering that the government cannot even control the circulation of illegal drugs, you think they can control the circulation of guns being traded on the black market? Not a chance in hell. If a person is determined enough to kill, they will succeed. That's the sad reality.The only way we will stop the violence is if society radically changes course.

We need to start looking at what is causing people to do this. Taking away the weapon doesn't solve anything. They simply find another. 9/11 hijackers didn't use guns because they wouldnt be allowed on the plane. So they used box cutters. It worked. Tim McVeigh killed 160 people, never fired a gun.

You don't need a gun to kill lots of people.

Where in my post do you get the impression that I am advocating
gun control?  I am not.
 
I already included the use of bombs as an example of how
technology has changed the way we can kill.  Flying jets into
a skyscraper in a crowded urban environment is another example
of the change in population patterns and technology that add to the
problem.

Vendaval

quote:

ORIGINAL: Vendaval

quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

quote:

ORIGINAL: Vendaval

What has changed?
 
Well, for starters, the population has greatly increased.
And people are living closer together in urban environments
rather than further apart in rural settings.  The technology
and lethality of firearms has increased dramatically.  The
prices make firearms affordable and thus more available
to most consumers.
 
Homids have always been violent.  But in a less developed
society people do not have access to bombs and machine guns.
We still have the same emotions of fear, anger, loss, jealousy
and rage.  But now we have access to much more lethal and
productive ways to committ violent actions.

Firearms doesn't have anything to do with it. If you have looked at the studies, western populations have had increasing psychological issues for the past 50 years. And it seems we are truely becoming a society on drugs...not illegal drugs. We put our kids on ritalin. We put our teenagers on prozac. And there are studies now coming out that these drugs may actually be doing some harm.

Are you saying that drugs were the cause of this individual's behavior?


Socially there are many problems as well. Divorce rates are just astronomical. I believe the rate of divorce is over 60%. That means more than half of the people getting married today will be divorced. And believe me, a divorce does effect a child psychologically. Child abuse (physical, emotional, and sexual) are also on the rise. Bullying is out of control in schools across the country. Parents are not as good as they used to be. Teachers are not as good as they used to be.

Are you saying that the shooter was not responsible for his actions?

That is what has changed just in the past generation....

So yes, the technology of guns has increased. But we have always had guns. People that are going on these rampages in schools are doing it because they are seriously disturbed. And these people almost ALWAYS display warning signs. The Columbine kids displayed warning signs for an entire year and everyone ignored it. And now this young man at VT was being ignored when he displayed warning signs. For christ sakes he was writing poetry about kids and teachers being killed over a year ago! And noone did anything about it? That's a cry for help.

The initial reports from classmates and roommates are that he
was non-communicative and quiet; that he rebuffed efforts to
interact with other people.  The English Dept did try to intervene
but because of confidentiality cannot disclose all the facts, nor
can the school mental health professionals for the same reason.

A person that is this lost, disconnected, and literally insane will inflict violence one way or another. Guns are the weapon of choice because they are easily to gain access to. But you take the gun away, you still have a very dangerous and seriously ill individual. And he will find some way to inflict a lot of damage. He can build a bomb. Hell, you can download the instructions off the internet! Or he may become a serial killer. It just takes a slash to the throat to kill someone.

Read the second sentence in my last paragraph.
I include bombs in that statement.

There are also 80 million firearms in the United States. 42% of American households say they have a gun in the home. Now considering that the government cannot even control the circulation of illegal drugs, you think they can control the circulation of guns being traded on the black market? Not a chance in hell. If a person is determined enough to kill, they will succeed. That's the sad reality.The only way we will stop the violence is if society radically changes course.

We need to start looking at what is causing people to do this. Taking away the weapon doesn't solve anything. They simply find another. 9/11 hijackers didn't use guns because they wouldnt be allowed on the plane. So they used box cutters. It worked. Tim McVeigh killed 160 people, never fired a gun.

You don't need a gun to kill lots of people.

Where in my post do you get the impression that I am advocating
gun control?  I am not.
 
I already included the use of bombs as an example of how
technology has changed the way we can kill.  Flying jets into
a skyscraper in a crowded urban environment is another example
of the change in population patterns and technology that add to the
problem.

Vendaval

quote:

ORIGINAL: lockedaway

Tell me who supports that kind of tax increase and why.