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Is our past who we are today and will be tomorrow - 4/17/2007 11:45:34 PM

ttoddg

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Joined: 6/10/2005
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Is it possible for a person to change? Can a person decide that the life they have been leading is not the way they want to continue living? I say yes in fact I am certain of it or the divorce rate would not be as high as it is. I think that people frequently look at the condintion they have allowed there life to deteriorate to and said enough. I am not this person, and will not continue living this way.

Or has the behavioural pattern been laid and no matter how much time and effort is applied we are stuck with our mistakes in perpetuity?

Post #: 1

RE: Is our past who we are today and will be tomorrow - 4/17/2007 11:49:47 PM

juliaoceania

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From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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Well I have several examples from my own life

I did not like my abusive marriage, I left

I did not like my dead end jobs, I went back to school

I did not like being a smoker, I quit

I have a phobia of driving, I am going to face that phobia.

I believe that we create our lives. We are not hapless victims of circumstance alone. We always have the choice in how we approach our lives, and that makes all the difference.

There is a a video on google called "what the bleep do we know". I strongly recommend it

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to ttoddg)

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RE: Is our past who we are today and will be tomorrow - 4/17/2007 11:55:32 PM

M1stressM1na

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I agree with julia....you get to a point in your life and say to hell with that! I need to change and do x y and z to achieve where i want to go.

I am at a point now which is a long way from where i was almost 15 years ago. The only person that could change that was me.

If you want to change you can....if you arent strong enough of mind to change then you will not change.

(in reply to juliaoceania)

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RE: Is our past who we are today and will be tomorrow - 4/18/2007 12:08:38 AM

ttoddg

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Joined: 6/10/2005
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i am in complete agreement with you M1. I decided that I was done with the way my life was going and made the necessary steps to change it. I have a friend who says the changes I am making are not possible. I have behaved in a certain way for 17 years, so I will continue to behave that way in the future even if the stimulus for that behaviour has been removed from my life.

(in reply to M1stressM1na)

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RE: Is our past who we are today and will be tomorrow - 4/18/2007 12:25:59 AM

meatcleaver

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Joined: 3/13/2006
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We live in a world of chaotic chance. We can and do change our lives, it doesn't mean it will be for the better though but changing it is better than living in a rut, at least one has new experiences.

As for marriage and divorce. I have found living in a different country to ones wife is the best way to keep on good terms.

I wouldn't live with another woman but I do like to give orgasms so a woman can stay the night and leave after breakfast.

From my experience the biggest problem in life is forgetting someone is human and trusting them too much. People are fallible, prone to cheat and they will ultimately let you down so enjoy people but don't have too high expectations.

Oh and never believe someone who claims to be honest. By claiming to be honest they are inadvertently exposing a weakness.

Apart from people, everything else in live is eezy-peezy. As Sartre said, a man who is bored his own company won't be good company or something like that.

I have travelled extensively alone (which was one of my decisions when I needed a change) and it is the best way to travel and meet people. I recommend that everyone at some point in their life , take time out and travel alone.,

< Message edited by meatcleaver -- 4/18/2007 12:28:29 AM >

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RE: Is our past who we are today and will be tomorrow - 4/18/2007 1:05:23 AM

seeksfemslave

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My answer is that deep rooted change, tho' possible, is not easy and will not occur in a short time period.

Such things as divorce or changes in direction/habits with underlying motivators remaining the same are quite superficial and do not indicate meaningful development. As an example you quite frequently hear women assert their new found inner confidence by getting a divorce when blow me, no sexual connotations intended, they go and get involved with basically the same type as they have just confidently left.

I think that many people simply dont know who they are or what they really want or how to achieve it.
If I am right, it is hardly likely that successful change will occur for such people.

The basic question to be asked is... am I really living in a manner acceptable to myself ? I mean in ones own behaviour patterns.
A deceptively simple question that IMO is not always honestly answered due to distortions imposed by that devious little Devil....ego.

< Message edited by seeksfemslave -- 4/18/2007 1:07:09 AM >

(in reply to meatcleaver)

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RE: Is our past who we are today and will be tomorrow - 4/18/2007 1:54:10 AM

redsky

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From: UK
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i agree, i believe you can be whoever you want to be, i believe people can change-do change- circumstances allow people to change for the better or sometimes for the worst...i & my sister both made drastic changes in our lives due to personal hardships in our pasts as kids & we are both more or less who we want to be now, i love myself & i could never say that growing up, i used to think i was nobody...now i AM somebody, who knows what tomorrow brings or if i will change, but i hope i am still 'me'

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(in reply to ttoddg)

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RE: Is our past who we are today and will be tomorrow - 4/18/2007 3:17:40 AM

swtnsparkling

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Joined: 1/1/2004
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You get one shot at this life
Keep that in mind when there is some thing in your life you don't like
or wish to change yet you are afraid -lazy- or think it cannot be done.
Your not going to Get a Second chance

_____________________________

Never make anyone a priority who treats you as an option 2003

Walk in Peace

A "No" uttered from deepest conviction is better than a "Yes" uttered merely to please

(in reply to ttoddg)

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RE: Is our past who we are today and will be tomorrow - 4/18/2007 3:47:23 AM

NeedToUseYou

Posts: 2297
Joined: 12/24/2005
From: None of your business
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ttoddg

Is it possible for a person to change? Can a person decide that the life they have been leading is not the way they want to continue living? I say yes in fact I am certain of it or the divorce rate would not be as high as it is. I think that people frequently look at the condintion they have allowed there life to deteriorate to and said enough. I am not this person, and will not continue living this way.

Or has the behavioural pattern been laid and no matter how much time and effort is applied we are stuck with our mistakes in perpetuity?

I think it is possible for people to change, but so unlikely I wouldn't bet on it. Most of the "changed" people revert back just as quick.

I'm talking of core outlook and behaviour. Things like a divorce aren't really a Personality shift unto themselves. If the person got a divorce and leapt right in with a new person, following the same behaviours there was no change in themselves. It could happen, but generally requires either a massive dramatic event coupled with self-realization. Or a slow multi-decade dripping on stone type thing.

I've witnessed softening of edges, I'd say. I've not witnessed a permanent "rebirth".

(in reply to ttoddg)

Post #: 9

RE: Is our past who we are today and will be tomorrow - 4/18/2007 4:43:02 AM

meatcleaver

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Joined: 3/13/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: NeedToUseYou

I think it is possible for people to change, but so unlikely I wouldn't bet on it. Most of the "changed" people revert back just as quick.

I doubt people can change either, they can change their situation but wherever they go they are there too. You can't run away from yourself or unload yourself and move on, you have to confront yourself and that is very very difficult. Changing ones situation can make one feel like starting anew but how long it is before you realise you are still your old self is one for debate.

_____________________________

There are fascists who consider themselves humanitarians, like cannibals on a health kick, eating only vegetarians.

(in reply to NeedToUseYou)

Post #: 10

RE: Is our past who we are today and will be tomorrow - 4/18/2007 4:50:02 AM

LadyIce

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Joined: 7/4/2006
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It is possible to change, but you have to want to change.
If the person does not really want to change, deep down, they don't.
Most people don't make serious changes, unless they have to.
We change most often when we lose our jobs, are abused, violated or
in emotional distress or fed up.

(in reply to ttoddg)

Post #: 11

RE: Is our past who we are today and will be tomorrow - 4/18/2007 6:46:49 AM

sub4hire

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It is like Ice said. You have to want to change. You also have to change for yourself. You cannot do it for anyone else or else it will indeed be short lived.

Look at the divorce rate. Once you get a divorce you know there is an issue with yourself. It takes two to break up, not one. Either you take a good look at yourself and modify whatever you need to or else you are doomed to repeat it over and over again.
Even if someone cheated on you. We're you there for them when they needed you? The day they went out and sought another to be there for? So, will you be there for them in the future?
We are all flawed. It takes a lot of time and effort to change.

(in reply to ttoddg)

Post #: 12

RE: Is our past who we are today and will be tomorrow - 4/18/2007 7:19:16 AM

Mercnbeth

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You can change situations you can't change you.

If you have a fear of height, you can make yourself sign up for sky diving, do it and survive, but still you'll be afraid of heights. My father quit smoking almost 30 years ago and he says he still finds himself reaching into his pocket for a cigarette. I don't subscribe to most psycho babble, but its recognized that a drug addict or a alcoholic is never "cured", never changed; and is only one drink or drug taking event away from returning to his addiction.

People speak of "snapping" or needing a "break". Whether it be in a lifestyle context, a vanilla marriage, or job; most of these snaps or breaks are because people are living against their nature. They are living in situations that force them to be something they are not. I don't know at what time in your life it occurs, but at some point you are what you are.

What you are, your integrity, your nature; is you and stays with you forever. If you are a fraud you will always be a fraud. You can leave your situation and start new somewhere else, but eventually you will return to your nature.

(in reply to sub4hire)

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RE: Is our past who we are today and will be tomorrow - 4/18/2007 7:39:57 AM

darkinshadows

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From: UK
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quote:

If you have a fear of height, you can make yourself sign up for sky diving, do it and survive, but still you'll be afraid of heights. My father quit smoking almost 30 years ago and he says he still finds himself reaching into his pocket for a cigarette. I don't subscribe to most psycho babble, but its recognized that a drug addict or a alcoholic is never "cured", never changed; and is only one drink or drug taking event away from returning to his addiction.quote]

I will disagree there. I was terrified of navels (the umbilical kind, not the orange) and spiders. Huge phobias.

Empowering oneself when you have a phobia, let alone a fear, can be done and you can change it.

An addiction is a different thing altogether.

_____________________________

.dark.

...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 14

RE: Is our past who we are today and will be tomorrow - 4/18/2007 9:11:36 AM

juliaoceania

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From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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I smoked for 23 years, was loathed to give it up, two years later I rarely think about smoking, and when I do the thought is sickening to me and usually because I smell the shit.

I used speed when I was in my 20s to get under really what was my ideal weight... and I formed a psychological dependence on them. I quit that and I have no desire to indulge anything like that again. My situation was so bad (eating disorder mixed with taking speed) that my family had an intervention for me.

Oh, and there is another thing that changed. I no longer have an eating disorder.

You see the brain has neural pathways that form our neural net. When we have regular habits and beliefs (whether negative or positive), these pathways become well beaten and formed. It becomes easier to engage in habits (especially ones that give us an unearned neuro-transmitter reward, like addicts get) than it is to break our habits and make new pathways.

You see emotions all have a neuro transmitter "frequency", their own design... and when we experience the same emotions over and over again it becomes easier and easier to stay in that emotional state because the pathways are well connected AND we desire to keep the neurotransmitters that we are accustomed to. So we can actually become addicted to emotions and not substances. That is why there are angry people, depressed people, happy people, people who are addicted to fear, some of us panic attack people are used to that... the longer these pathways are built up, the more resistent they are to change. This is part of the reason why people that are depressed have such a hard time changing the way they think about themselves and their world

Finding the above information out was very much the last piece of the puzzle in becoming a more positive person that feels I can overcome anything. It is all habit and brain chemistry, and we can change this with forming new habits in how we deal with the world... it just takes a lot of effort to change at first, but as the new pathways form, it becomes easier.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to darkinshadows)

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RE: Is our past who we are today and will be tomorrow - 4/18/2007 9:15:00 AM

ownedgirlie

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I think you can change things about yourself, and change the direction of where you are going, but that a person can not change his/her core essence.

I could have been a victim to my past - An abusive childhood followed by an abusive marriage. I chose not to, and changed courses to a healthier me. I could have remained a victim to my phobia (I was terrified of the SF Bay Bridge BEFORE part of it collapsed in the '89 quake - and refused to get on it for years after it was repaired) - but I got over it and drive the bridge with regularity now, and enjoy doing so (the view of the City is so pretty when entering it). I could have chosen to carry all my baggage with me, and allowed it to dictate who I was and where I was going.

Instead I looked at where I wanted to be, vs. where I was, and with the help of some awesome people, I changed courses.

But I am the person I am. I have my same inner personality, my same sense of humor, my same dorkiness, etc. I can not (nor do I desire to) change my essence.

(in reply to ttoddg)

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RE: Is our past who we are today and will be tomorrow - 4/18/2007 9:17:55 AM

ownedgirlie

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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
It is all habit and brain chemistry, and we can change this with forming new habits in how we deal with the world... it just takes a lot of effort to change at first, but as the new pathways form, it becomes easier.

I liked what you said here, and emphasized the part about effort. Often when I say I have had a lot of work to do in my relationship and for myself, this is the kind of effort I'm talking about - work toward creating a better me, the me that I desire to be. It is within my current relationship that I've had the freedom and encouragement enough to do so, even though such effort can be difficult.

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 17

RE: Is our past who we are today and will be tomorrow - 4/18/2007 9:21:11 AM

juliaoceania

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From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
It is all habit and brain chemistry, and we can change this with forming new habits in how we deal with the world... it just takes a lot of effort to change at first, but as the new pathways form, it becomes easier.

I liked what you said here, and emphasized the part about effort. Often when I say I have had a lot of work to do in my relationship and for myself, this is the kind of effort I'm talking about - work toward creating a better me, the me that I desire to be. It is within my current relationship that I've had the freedom and encouragement enough to do so, even though such effort can be difficult.

I just said this on the thread about work, anything that is worth having is worth they work and effort that go into it. I love the challenge of that, don't you?

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to ownedgirlie)

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RE: Is our past who we are today and will be tomorrow - 4/18/2007 9:27:07 AM

Real0ne

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

You can change situations you can't change you.

If you have a fear of height, you can make yourself sign up for sky diving, do it and survive, but still you'll be afraid of heights. My father quit smoking almost 30 years ago and he says he still finds himself reaching into his pocket for a cigarette. I don't subscribe to most psycho babble, but its recognized that a drug addict or a alcoholic is never "cured", never changed; and is only one drink or drug taking event away from returning to his addiction.

unfortunately people do not know how to effectively "deprogram" themselves. i smoked for well over 10 years and then quit and continued by deprogramming myself, i can be around smokers without any urge to smoke what so ever nor do i ever reach for a cigarette or have cravings. Quitting is not enough if you want to free yourself of anything you have to follow through with deprogramming. He may want to see a hypnotist or maybne he is unaware that this can be done....

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

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RE: Is our past who we are today and will be tomorrow - 4/18/2007 9:27:20 AM

ownedgirlie

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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
I just said this on the thread about work, anything that is worth having is worth they work and effort that go into it. I love the challenge of that, don't you?

LOL I just quoted you over there, too. I think we're on the same wave-length today. Yes, I do love the challenge, and I love what it's changed in me as a result. Because of the struggles I have had and overcame (for both myself and for him), I learned self confidence, a sense of accomplishment, and even a healthy sense of pride, all of which I did not have before.

I was telling someone recently, when my Master presents me with options (usually the lesser of two evils that he'd like me to do for him), I will always choose the harder or more frightening one. By doing so, I feel like I'm giving him more of myself, and I grow more in the process. Overall, I am a better person because of it.

Now, speaking of work, I need to get to mine

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 20

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