RE: Intellectual Appeal (Full Version)

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OedipusRexIt -> RE: Intellectual Appeal (4/18/2007 8:50:41 PM)

Susan and Olorin both make excellent, original points about what seems to be the societal push to dumb it all down to the ambient level.

...might be time for a new thread...  good stuff!



Missokyst -> RE: Intellectual Appeal (4/18/2007 8:55:19 PM)

Umm.... I am constantly amazed that people still assume if you have book smarts you are incapable of running a household, balancing a checkbook, holding a conversation, or doing any sort of ordinary world things.  Believe it or not, some people can master a variety of tasks.  Intelligence covers a broad scope of activity, which may ALSO mean book smart.
Having gotten those degrees, raised 4 really exceptional kids, bought and sold a home or two, having run a business, and been able to converse with bikers or politico's, I never dismiss anyone's booksmarts in favor of lifesmarts.  Intelligence is the ability to use what you have learned, no matter where you may have picked it up.
Kyst



SusanofO -> RE: Intellectual Appeal (4/18/2007 9:04:59 PM)

"Intelligence" has little to do with a person having many (or advanced) degrees (to me). I know some really smart folks who have little formal education. Nor do I that having "book smarts" are incompatible w/managing other complex tasks that may not involve "book smarts." I don't understand that kind of thinking, either.

But as far as people having a lot of education, I admire their passion for their field, or passion for education generally, and their self-discipline in pursuing advanced education. I'm sure this has been probably mentioned (dunno for sure) but -

And, although Bill Gates might be the world's wealthiest person and never have finished undergraduate college, I think he probably really is the exception to the rule. Most of the time, IMO, more education will equal an opportunity to earn a fancier style of living (and appreciatng this aspect can be a question of what folks are seeking, IMO, in a partner).

I have one step-son who has a CPA. I have another who refuses to get his GED. Guess which one is making more money?

- Susan



hisannabelle -> RE: Intellectual Appeal (4/18/2007 9:18:57 PM)

greetings all,
greetings oedipusrexit,

He is intelligent, although not particularly book-smart...He also does occasionally say things i think are ignorant, but then again, i'm a socialist and He's a conservative, so that's par for the course. i say a lot of stuff He thinks is ignorant, too :P my schooling gives me a different perspective on some things, just like His real life experience gives Him a different perspective...for instance, we are both buddhist; it's what i study in school and i've practiced locally for a couple of years. He has never studied it formally but has traveled to monasteries all over the world and has been ordained. so when we're talking about our faith, we both bring different things to the table and that enriches us both.

do i consider Him intelligent? yes. does He have a whole bunch of formal schooling to back it up? no, but He's been in numerous leadership positions and dealt with things i could never imagine dealing with.

intellect is important to me, whether it's gained through education, life experience, or a mixture of both. mainly because to me it is simply another aspect of attraction...physical attraction is good, and believe me, i'm on Him like white on rice, but the ability to hold an interesting conversation and to challenge me intellectually is important to me. i think that's just as sexy, if not more sexy. that said, i've been with very intelligent people whose intellect i didn't find attractive for whatever reason - because they were narrowminded or arrogant or whatever. so intelligence isn't necessarily the be all end all. i prefer to have my cake AND eat it...i like partners who are intelligent, but also humble, have a sense of humor, and who i am physically attracted to and comfortable with (although physical attraction for me does not relate to conventional attraction most of the time).

respectfully,
annabelle.



behindmirrors -> RE: Intellectual Appeal (4/18/2007 9:22:17 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: OedipusRexIt
What is the importance of intellect to you in selecting a partner?  Some, all or none...?


I place a high value on intellect- but I place and even higher one on the person's capability to use that intellect. You can be rediculously smart, and still not apply that to anything it needs to be applied to in order to have a fulfilling and/or productive life. I am more about the ability to reason effectively and to understand the basis of reason than I am on the amount of book smarts or high IQ test scores.

I think more than someone's earning a degree (my Master does not have a college degree, though he attended some college), I am interested in seeing a passion to learn, and to expand the knowledge that you have through any means possible. A person who cannot keep up with my mind is not a person who I will be with for very long, and a person who has no desire to continue their learning in some form through their own motivation is generally someone I choose to avoid altogether.

quote:


What are the things you look for online that exemplify intellect? 


I look at the base of what they are saying, and ask myself a few questions about what I see before me, such as:
Is it rational?
Are any errors due to mistake, or due to a belief that prevents them from seeing the truth in something/ an inability to see what they are saying clearly?
Are they able to convey their point in an intelligent way, without resorting to whining, condescention, or name-calling?
Can they hold a debate and show understanding of both sides?
If they make a mistake, can they admit it and correct it?
Is the person applying their knowledge or not?
If they are asking to learn more about it, are they asking questions to clarify?
When they get answers, do they seem to be able to look at those responses critcally and apply what they find true to their own base of knowledge effectively?
Etc., etc.

I admit to being a person who judges what they see, based upon observation, and I evaluate a person based on what they present to me. For intelligence, I am interested in their ability to apply it, and to expand their base of knowledge- and to have a passion for doing so. Reason is incredibly important to me to see in others- especially the ability to use it and to understand that it is the most important tool of mankind.

behindmirrors.



Olorin -> RE: Intellectual Appeal (4/18/2007 9:33:50 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: hisannabelle

greetings all,
greetings oedipusrexit,

He is intelligent, although not particularly book-smart...He also does occasionally say things i think are ignorant, but then again, i'm a socialist and He's a conservative, so that's par for the course.


*SNIP*

At the risk of sounding hostile, or overtly political - Way to keep an open mind ;) Of course, I'm convinced socialism is empirically false - i.e. based on a misunderstanding of the fundamental nature of economics - so I'm with him on this ;-)

*SNIP*

quote:


intellect is important to me, whether it's gained through education, life experience, or a mixture of both. mainly because to me it is simply another aspect of attraction...physical attraction is good, and believe me, i'm on Him like white on rice, but the ability to hold an interesting conversation and to challenge me intellectually is important to me. i think that's just as sexy, if not more sexy. that said, i've been with very intelligent people whose intellect i didn't find attractive for whatever reason - because they were narrowminded or arrogant or whatever. so intelligence isn't necessarily the be all end all. i prefer to have my cake AND eat it...i like partners who are intelligent, but also humble, have a sense of humor, and who i am physically attracted to and comfortable with (although physical attraction for me does not relate to conventional attraction most of the time).

respectfully,
annabelle.



Just curious what you thought about me on that score ;-) I hope I wasn't the arrogant or narrowminded type. On the other hand, I do consider you to be one of the "exceptionally intelligent" ones I've known :)

*loves annabelle bunches*

J



Jevousadore -> RE: Intellectual Appeal (4/18/2007 9:37:08 PM)

Hello, OedipusRexIt....

For myself, if a man (or woman) cannot engage me intellectually, then there is no sexual attraction on my part.  That is not to say that he is not a smart person, or a great person to know, but he generally needs to be at my level or above....then I will strive to learn from him.

Personally, I do not need proof of this thru education and degrees.  I have met incredibly self-educated, knowledgeable men with nothing more than a GED and life experience.  On the opposite end, there are men who have their degrees, but the true thirst to learn and teach does not exist for them.

I like to call it "mental masturbation".  Get me going there, and the rest of me turns into a drooling, unable-to-form-a sentence, blathering idiot.......then the Dom dumps me for being stupid....laugh. 

jevousadore

Great topic by the way.....right up my alley.



ChainedExistence -> RE: Intellectual Appeal (4/18/2007 9:44:30 PM)

It's of paramount importance to me. I've had enough of living with someone who had exactly two topics of conversation, neither of which I found compelling. At the same time, I like someone who is smart in creative endeavors, not merely a man who can regurgitate inane facts, (though if he thinks he can kick my butt at Trivia, I'm always up for the challenge)! I find a man like that constantly mesmerizing and incredibly sexy!I suppose what catches my eye is someone who writes well. I would notice someone with an substantial vocabulary, and an almost poetic way of seeing the world. A little wit thrown in is even better!



hisannabelle -> RE: Intellectual Appeal (4/18/2007 9:53:15 PM)

greetings olorin,

i think you misunderstood my point, which is that differing political stances usually lead to one or both parties considering certain statements by the other to be ignorant. it's just the nature of things (hence the "par for the course" comment). do i do my best to keep an open mind when talking about political things? yes, and that has also changed my viewpoint on certain issues (because of His input). does it mean that there aren't things i say that He considers ignorant because i'm socialist, or things He says that i consider ignorant because He's conservative? no...that definitely happens, too.

and yeah, i thought you were pretty arrogant sometimes :P but overall you are pretty much the only person i know who can make arrogant intelligence lovable and adorable...at least that i've met so far ;) it's not arrogant in a wholly bad way. it's just you and i like  you the way you are.

annabelle.



Olorin -> RE: Intellectual Appeal (4/18/2007 10:00:31 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: hisannabelle

greetings olorin,

*SNIP*

and yeah, i thought you were pretty arrogant sometimes :P but overall you are pretty much the only person i know who can make arrogant intelligence lovable and adorable...at least that i've met so far ;) it's not arrogant in a wholly bad way. it's just you and i like  you the way you are.

annabelle.



*blushes*

*melts*



ExSteelAgain -> RE: Intellectual Appeal (4/19/2007 1:30:27 AM)

What we really want is someone who is smart in a field we have come to value. This area of expertise could be formal university academics, art, theatre, literary, music, history or some street smart thing.

I went through a time when degrees and formal recognition meant a lot to me. However, the thing that completely captured my interest and one in which I came to value those involved in the most, was something I failed attempting. It was writing serious fiction. I wrote a novel after years of short story writing, but the novel was never picked up by a major publisher, although it had lots of positive feedback from one. I tried and tried to change the book to meet their suggestions to no avail. I rewrote it something like 14 times.

During my literary stage, I valued other writers far more than those with degrees, money or high powered professions. I’m sure some of the current writers on the board can identify. My crowd of writer friends would discuss books, literary techniques and read each other’s work like we were on 3 day amphetamine binges. That was my world and I didn’t value anyone not involved. By the same token, women in that world became far more attractive to me as I was to them.



Jevousadore -> RE: Intellectual Appeal (4/19/2007 2:52:49 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: OedipusRexIt

I will interject a counterpoint to the "of course everyone wants a smart partner/here's how many degrees I have" discussion. 

Despite the pleasing number of intelligent replies here, it seems reasonable to assume that there are a significant portion of the population who prefer an intellectually inferior partner, just as it is reasonable to assume that there are many here who either are, or wish to be perceived as, intellectually inferior.

A random sample of Dom/Sub profiles will confirm this assumption.  Many submissives seem to revel in a display of cluelessness, in order to attract their preferred brand of Dom.  Hardly any Dom profiles seem to feature intellect as a prime quality...  

If your profile runs counter to this trend, Bravo!  Perhaps you've noticed many who do fit the mold?.




Hello, OedipusRexIt....

Thank you for putting it out there.  I so very much agree with this.  It can sometimes feel as though the ability to articulate and hold an intelligent conversation (although intelligence is relative and I may just think what I think is "smart") is a flaw that a submissive should apologize for.  Even worse, to expect a Dom to be on your intellectual level has the possibility of being met with hostility. Sometimes I read the profile of a submissive and I have to believe it has been "dumbed down" (thought I know it is not always the case) to attract those Doms that are afraid of being intellectually challenged. 

It seems, to me,  as though some Doms (and submissives) feel that intelligence equals a poor submissive.  Perhaps a Dom is worried that a submissive will be of higher intellect then himself and it makes him feel inferior, or does not appreciate the challenge.   

Luckily, there are those who keep me on my toes and leave me panting for more.....yourself included.  laugh

jevousadore



julietsierra -> RE: Intellectual Appeal (4/19/2007 3:07:14 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: onestandingstill

I could see a materialistic person only wanting to date degreed people.
suzanne


Now see, that doesn't take into account some other factors and is just as judgmental and prejudicial as you've called others - simply in the other direction.

I prefer degreed individuals because:
a) I was married to a guy who was absolutely disdainful of education. He didn't have a degree and tried like hell to stop me from getting mine, up to and including attempting to get me pregnant so I'd have to quit going to college. He's now paying for his son's education because his son simply told him that if he didn't, that'd be the last he saw of him (he does have the money - he just doesn't want it to go to higher education)

I don't want to deal with the mindset (not saying they will have this, but also not taking the chance that they won't) that says "You think you're better than me just because you have a degree."

I have a degree. I don't think I'm better, but I'll be damned if I'll apologize for what I've earned just to make someone else feel good that they don't.. So, instead of dealing with all that, I prefer someone with a degree.

b) I am a degreed individual in a position that requires a degree to get there. I really wanted to meet someone that was in my same field (I didn't go searching for this, but deep inside, that's what I was hoping for). That's who I belong to now. That's what I'd hope for if I ever had to search again.

c) Education means something to me. I don't fault someone for not having that, but on the list of important things in my life, education ranks right up there in the top 3-4 items beyond family. Why would I look for someone that doesn't value something like that?

d) Just because I'm degreed does NOT mean I am earning a high salary. In fact, while a degree can lead to higher incomes, it is no guarantee. What matters most is the type of job that one has. Hell, the guys on the line at Ford and GM make more than I do, so money has not one darn thing to do with anything in my preference for a degreed individual.

juliet



johntom571 -> RE: Intellectual Appeal (4/19/2007 3:43:54 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: onestandingstill

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

education is highly important to me as well (ie degrees count

Degrees count to me in some small degree.
I think it's a ludicrous notion to believe just because someone holds a degree they are intelligent.
I know more people with Doctorate degrees who are not as common sense smart as 12 year olds.


That may be the case, Smarts and intelligence are different.  For example, uneducated inner city kids might need a lot of street smarts just to survive.  It doesn't follow that I can expect to have a stimulating conversation with them, unless we talked about car security systems, or international agro-pharmaceutical commerce.  I don't know if I would want as a sub a crack ho' "smart" enough to use the system.

Being an equal opportunity stereotypist, though there might be novelty dressing up a lab geek in a leather teddy, I suspect I would get a bigger kick from dominating a liberal arts graduate, whose knowledge of Beaudelaire or Noam Chomski would be trumped when bound, gagged and mercilessly driven into sub space.

my 2 cents

Johntom



NakedGirlScout -> RE: Intellectual Appeal (4/19/2007 4:10:24 AM)

Hi OedipusRxIt,
my feeling from my own life experience is that formal education never taught me how to be a pleasing sub or slave. In fact, the opposite, it encouraged being arrogant and argumentative as the academic setting I was in valued these traits. I've never had a fascinating conversation about chemical equilibria or the laws of motion. The three men whom I've called my Doms were a lot more impressed with a quick wit and the ability to make them laugh (not taught in my school), and the ability to serve them practically, financially and sexually (also not taught in my school). If there were degree courses I could take in those topics I'd keep on taking them, but only paying attention to my Doms needs has ever meant anything to us in practical terms.
Since I've never had a vanilla or kinky partner who had a degree, I can't talk about being with a degreed Dom. I don't have the experience to tell what they might be like. I suspect that I wouldn't get along with anybody who put a value on it.



Jevousadore -> RE: Intellectual Appeal (4/19/2007 4:41:10 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: NakedGirlScout

Hi OedipusRxIt,
my feeling from my own life experience is that formal education never taught me how to be a pleasing sub or slave. In fact, the opposite, it encouraged being arrogant and argumentative as the academic setting I was in valued these traits. I've never had a fascinating conversation about chemical equilibria or the laws of motion. The three men whom I've called my Doms were a lot more impressed with a quick wit and the ability to make them laugh (not taught in my school), and the ability to serve them practically, financially and sexually (also not taught in my school). If there were degree courses I could take in those topics I'd keep on taking them, but only paying attention to my Doms needs has ever meant anything to us in practical terms.
Since I've never had a vanilla or kinky partner who had a degree, I can't talk about being with a degreed Dom. I don't have the experience to tell what they might be like. I suspect that I wouldn't get along with anybody who put a value on it.


I am sorry, NakedGirlScout, but I have to respond.....

First, I may have missed a post from OedipusRexIt, but I don't believe the thread had to do with formal education, but with intellect itself.  Degrees, education, etc was brought forward by others later.

Second, please do not mistake having an educated opinion and being able to articulate it to others as being "arrogant" and "argumentative".  Academia, intelligence do not make someone that way.  That is a personality trait or behavior.  Being able to debate, disagree with others, learn from others is a natural ability in most human beings.  From the dawn of man we have been inquisitive, always learning.  To not do so? I cannot imagine sitting in such a sickly skin, never growing, never expressing myself, like a mannequin to be taken out and played with. 

Third, what is fascinating conversation to one may not be to another.  The point is to have the ability to have fascinating conversations about something with someone.

Fourth, a quick wit and the ability to make someone laugh is, in my opinion, a big sign of intelligence. And no, you will not be taught to serve a Dom practically (not sure what that encompasses?  Dinner, cleaning?), financially, and sexually.  I believe schools would consider that to be teaching prostitution. 

And fifth.....What makes you believe you were arrogant and argumentative?  You state that you have never had a partner who had a degree.  Did any of these partner value reading, learning within themselves? Did these same partners tell you this, or did you come to the conclusion yourself?

I hope this is not coming across too harsh. What I really want to do is "go off" on the ones that made you think your views about the world around you were not part of you and therefore a pleasing trait as a sub or slave. 

jevousadore



I hope I am not coming across too strong here, but wow. 



CuriousLord -> RE: Intellectual Appeal (4/19/2007 5:47:34 AM)

Scout's response was a clarification of view.  It's on topic.

I'm entirely behind her idea that the academic world encourages egos.  My ego could sink a battleship.  Should that battleship somehow annoy me, I could make that quite a literal statement.. I'd be within my resources and engineering capabilities to build a rail gun.
And, unless you're rather high up there in math theory, basic Calculus is more simplistic to me than addition is to you.

Our grades are on curves.  Our value in our future professions are competative.  The jobs we get will be based off where in the class we stand.  The programs we're allowed in already are.  The BlackBoard site has listings of every class average- to include homeworks, quizes, and even who attended class.  In some cases, typically exams, the professors even spare us having to calculate stardard deviations.

And, seriously.  I can sink a battleship.  Ain't tat da shhit?



SusanofO -> RE: Intellectual Appeal (4/19/2007 7:18:47 AM)

Curious Lord, where do you go to school?
Not trying to hi-jack, just curious. My husband was an electrical engineer.

- Susan



CuriousLord -> RE: Intellectual Appeal (4/19/2007 7:21:49 AM)

VCU, at the moment.  I've also been to PVCC, UVa, Rollins, UCF, FAU, IRCC, and SFU (yeah, I bounce).  All in either Florida or Virginia.



SusanofO -> RE: Intellectual Appeal (4/19/2007 7:30:03 AM)

Well good luck! Engineering is a tough major, IMO. Then again, I dropped Physics, because it made my head hurt. I am just not a math person, even if I am fairly bright. Some are, but I'm not. But it is a definite gift, IMO, and hope you enjoy it, and get a great job. 

- Susan



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