Anti sub drop?

Anti sub drop? (Full Version)

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Twicehappy2x -> Anti sub drop? (4/19/2007 4:37:01 PM)
Anti sub drop? Pre scene drop? I rarely ask a question of a personal nature but today I am. First the set up. I am one of those subs/slaves that is attuned to Master, imagine me saying the way you do when you are totally in love. By that I mean I go from zero to ready now in about.5 seconds or less. It is very easy for him to tease me, to have me screaming and clawing the floors takes minutes if that. Here is the problem, lately he takes me to the screaming point then drops me cold, no release. Ok, a few weeks of this can be fun, truthfully I love it, but it has been going on since February. I am not one of those who needs any aftercare, quite the opposite, leave me be in my puddle alone. Nor have I ever suffered sub drop in any form ever. Yet this has gotten to the point that when he drops me cold, I am mentally confused, nauseous, shaking, in tears, I feel abandoned and this last time so fucking depressed I do not know what to do. I am not somebody that gets depressed either. It gives me all sorts of strange worries I never have. Yes I have talked to him about it, he did this for an extended period of time before and I was very plain about the effects it has on me. What I want to know is am I experiencing some weird form of sub drop? Can you experience sub drop because your body instantly revs up for “Master” and then boom, nothing? Perhaps if he reads it from others he will understand what he is doing. Or perhaps I will find out I am just plain nuts.

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Anti sub drop? (4/19/2007 4:48:22 PM)
That would make sense to me. All sub drop is is the next step of your body's chemical reaction process caused by the scene mixed with some emotional roller coasting. Some people throw up after scenes and shake due to the adrenaline spiking. I think from your post it's obvious what he's doing. You've said you've talked to him yourself and he didn't change, so obviously it's what he wants from you.

ownedgirlie -> RE: Anti sub drop? (4/19/2007 5:02:01 PM)
It's what I experience every time my Master does that to me. Anticipation, built up, adrenaline, endorphines, etc....and the carpet is pulled out. Think of when Wyle E. Coyote is chasing Road Runner and runs right off a cliff....lingers there in mid air with his legs still whirring round and round like wheels.....and then...................crashes to the canyon floor. And yet we always manage to get back up and do it again. ;)

Devilslilsister -> RE: Anti sub drop? (4/19/2007 6:25:08 PM)
No, you arent nuts. i've never gone for an extended period like you, but i do know that the last time i interacted with Master like this, i ended up bawling my eyes out. ::smiles:: and then i absolutetly despised him and the whole world. Wrote a thread on it that got all mumble fucked. Trying to save my pride and all that. Any who, i have heard that getting the motor running and then stalling out over a long period of time does have negative effects. It was on a thread on collarme...... waaaaaaaay back.... and if i can remember the title of it, i'll post it for you. But dont bet your buck me finding it

Devilslilsister -> RE: Anti sub drop? (4/19/2007 6:39:44 PM)
Ah ha! i found it. Side note first.. i didnt realise i had so many sexually frustrated threads LOL. So if you can manage to get past my blatherings in the thread....(yeah pls ignore them.. and i've already gone through the thread and this is the only thing really mentioned) darkinshadows posted this quote: is that I hope He is aware that, mentally, it can be 'dangerous'. You havent mentioned exact timescales or amounts, but physically there is a build up of hormones at sexual 'build up' and that work on your body in various ways. So , just communicate with Him that He is aware of that. the thread is http://www.collarchat.com/m_187955/mpage_1/key_sexual%2Cfrustration/tm.htm Dunno why what dark said has stuck in my head all this time, but it did. Its not much and doesnt explain completely, but hopefully she'll come back and explain abit more? Or you could google it? Or some one else can expand on the idea? Edited for a P.S. Do a search on CM on "sexual frustration" Tons of threads that might help give you an idea...

slavejali -> RE: Anti sub drop? (4/19/2007 6:44:34 PM)
Desire clings to something, when that 'something" is taken away, you are left lost. What you are feeling is natural.

Aswad -> RE: Anti sub drop? (4/19/2007 7:22:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Twicehappy2x Yet this has gotten to the point that when he drops me cold, I am mentally confused, nauseous, shaking, in tears, I feel abandoned and this last time so fucking depressed I do not know what to do. I am not somebody that gets depressed either. It gives me all sorts of strange worries I never have. Confusion, nausea and "excessive" emotional response is consistent with a dopamine surge, you just don't notice it until afterwards. Same thing that's causing you to go from 0 to 60 in no time. I'd say this kind of drop is to be expected. Shaking is consistent with the adrenaline rush, among other things. Again, expected. I wouldn't worry about these, unless they start to get to a point where you can't deal with them. If you start actually vomiting, an antiemetic suppository about 15-30 mins before "closing time" could deal with that, although I wouldn't use it unless it becomes a regular part of the drop. Did the depressed feeling set in immediately, or after a while? In the latter case, at least, it seems probable that it is due to the return to baseline. Too little information to say, though, and this one might be nice to resolve. And did you mean you start getting worried as part of the drop, or that you're getting worried in general about how the drops are affecting you? The latter makes all kinds of sense, while the former might be nice to resolve. Again, a bit more info would be nice. Kind regards, Aswad.

Aswad -> RE: Anti sub drop? (4/19/2007 7:40:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Devilslilsister darkinshadows posted this quote: is that I hope He is aware that, mentally, it can be 'dangerous'. You havent mentioned exact timescales or amounts, but physically there is a build up of hormones at sexual 'build up' and that work on your body in various ways. So , just communicate with Him that He is aware of that. Dunno why what dark said has stuck in my head all this time, but it did. Its not much and doesnt explain completely, but hopefully she'll come back and explain abit more? Or you could google it? Or some one else can expand on the idea? I'd tend to agree that it might, for some people, be a Bad Thing(tm) in the long run, as it only takes the establishment of a feedback loop for the temporary neurotransmitter imbalance to start shifting things. If one is left alone until one is done coping, however, or at least not spoken to (in a negative way or on a topic that causes episodic memory to be accessed), I don't think there's any significant likelyhood of establishing a feedback path. Mind you, simplifying things here, but I haven't seen much work done on the neurochemical properties of sex, let alone sub drop [:D] If you have an inherited predisposition for depression, or a history of mental health issues or brain abnormalities (e.g. epilepsy, brain damage, etc.), it's probably not very healthy to keep doing this every time for a long time unless certain prescription drugs are used in a prophylactic manner (no, not the regular ones). While hormones are relevant for the sub drop itself, I don't think there will be an adverse long-term hormonal reaction. The closest I can think of, off the top of my head, is that you might mess with oxytocin, which might, theoretically affect your trust of your partner in some way. Apart from that very theoretical effect, I don't think the lack of aftercare will do much more than perhaps elevate your stress hormones a little bit, and whether that's healthy or not can be debated. If your stress hormones are raised during your next blood workup, read up on tianeptine and the HPA-axis, and talk it over with the doc. All in all, if you're worried about the physical or mental health issues, I'd say get 5-9 hours quality sleep per night in a fairly regular schedule, get 15-30 minutes sunlight within 2 hours of waking, get a bit of occasional exerciese, and see a dietician about getting a blood workup and some subsequent suggestions for food or supplementation that will yield proper nutrition for you. Absent that last point, at least cut refined sugars and artificial sweeteners; try cutting down on flour and increasing fruit and vegetable intake. Don't drink alcohol. That should pretty much cover all your bases for 99% of the subs out there that don't have a mental health history, IMO. Then again, I should have been sleeping 5 hours ago, so take this with a grain of salt. Like everyone else, I work better when well-rested, and with my references in front of me. [:D]

Twicehappy2x -> RE: Anti sub drop? (4/20/2007 3:31:27 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross I think from your post it's obvious what he's doing. You've said you've talked to him yourself and he didn't change, so obviously it's what he wants from you. LA i agree with the first part of your post. But somehow i am having a hard time believing this is what he wants from me because he is far from happy at the moment. Scooter has had a few subs before me but not anybody for this length of time. And i don't think he has ever been with anybody who had such a strong reaction to him. It is to the point where i am staying withdrawn to protect myself from getting close, then i chill out and relax and here it comes again. It has gotten to be a vicious circle. I think he just does not comprehend how badly the after affects that have gotten to taking days to wear off are. Because i cannot believe my gentle natured Scooter would wreak such havoc on purpose. Mostly i wanted to know if perhaps it was just me and if it wasn't to give him the opportunity to grasp what exactly is going on.

Twicehappy2x -> RE: Anti sub drop? (4/20/2007 3:33:41 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie It's what I experience every time my Master does that to me. Anticipation, built up, adrenaline, endorphines, etc....and the carpet is pulled out. Think of when Wyle E. Coyote is chasing Road Runner and runs right off a cliff....lingers there in mid air with his legs still whirring round and round like wheels.....and then...................crashes to the canyon floor. Good analogy, and when we get back up and do it again i am fine but anymore it is climb the mountain, crash, climb the mountain, crash. I am beginning to avoid the Acme boxes like they are nuclear bombs

NakedGirlScout -> RE: Anti sub drop? (4/20/2007 3:38:17 AM)
I wish I could think of a way to say this in a kinder gentler way, but this sounds like cruelty to me. If you've expressed yourself as to how terribly this is affecting you, that it's wreaking havoc with trust and the comfort you used to feel in his arms, and he's still not interested in addressing the issue? Did he ever respond to you when you explained your feelings? What did he say, or did he side-step or ignore what you were saying? This doesn't sound like it bodes well, to me.

Twicehappy2x -> RE: Anti sub drop? (4/20/2007 3:38:39 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Devilslilsister No, you arent nuts. i've never gone for an extended period like you, but i do know that the last time i interacted with Master like this, i ended up bawling my eyes out. ::smiles:: and then i absolutetly despised him and the whole world. Yup, that is me, right now i hate everybody and everything. Thank you for the link, i am going to go check it out after i get done with my answers here. quote: ORIGINAL: Devilslilsister is that I hope He is aware that, mentally, it can be 'dangerous'. You havent mentioned exact timescales or amounts, but physically there is a build up of hormones at sexual 'build up' and that work on your body in various ways. So , just communicate with Him that He is aware of that. I've tried making him aware a long time ago, i thought he understood, now i am wondering. Maybe he'll go read the link as well.

Twicehappy2x -> RE: Anti sub drop? (4/20/2007 3:45:52 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NakedGirlScout If you've expressed yourself as to how terribly this is affecting you, that it's wreaking havoc with trust and the comfort you used to feel in his arms, and he's still not interested in addressing the issue? Did he ever respond to you when you explained your feelings? What did he say, or did he side-step or ignore what you were saying? Well the last time he felt bad but it has not stopped him from doing it over and over. Like i said, Scooter is fairly new at this and i don't think he understands. He did however side step by telling me he just did not feel like doing anything because of the way i keep withdrawing. Maybe that is true, but at this point i feel like i cannot pull myself back to normal anymore. I feel like with drawing is all i can do. And yet when he pushes me there he is obviously getting a response, he smiles, laughs and walks away. A few weeks ago he did it so fast i fell on the bathroom floor. He did pick me up, then i took care of him, i got off during the course of that but still felt really let down, emotionally exhausted.

Twicehappy2x -> RE: Anti sub drop? (4/20/2007 3:51:41 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aswad quote: ORIGINAL: Twicehappy2x Yet this has gotten to the point that when he drops me cold, I am mentally confused, nauseous, shaking, in tears, I feel abandoned and this last time so fucking depressed I do not know what to do. I am not somebody that gets depressed either. It gives me all sorts of strange worries I never have. I wouldn't worry about these, unless they start to get to a point where you can't deal with them. Did the depressed feeling set in immediately, or after a while? In the latter case, at least, it seems probable that it is due to the return to baseline. And did you mean you start getting worried as part of the drop, or that you're getting worried in general about how the drops are affecting you? I only made this post because it is to the point where i can't deal with it any more. I feel like i am on a roller coaster ride all the time. I am in tears immediately and have gotten to the point where i stay depressed. No depression does not run in my family, nor do i normally get depressed about much. I think it is the up and down chemical soup combined with my fear of what keeps happening to me that is keeping me depressed. I want him but it just is not safe anymore to let myself want him, yet when he is close i cannot stop it.

Jevousadore -> RE: Anti sub drop? (4/20/2007 3:51:50 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NakedGirlScout I wish I could think of a way to say this in a kinder gentler way, but this sounds like cruelty to me. If you've expressed yourself as to how terribly this is affecting you, that it's wreaking havoc with trust and the comfort you used to feel in his arms, and he's still not interested in addressing the issue? Did he ever respond to you when you explained your feelings? What did he say, or did he side-step or ignore what you were saying? This doesn't sound like it bodes well, to me. Hello.... I agree with NakedGirlScout. To me it has the feel and sound of abuse, and not the good kind. Depression, anxiety, withdrawal are all reactions to the wrong kind. Add in that he is not communicating makes it seem as though he is angry at someone or something, or he is working thru an issue, and rather than talking to you about it he is taking it out on you. To me it is no different then if he came home angry at someone at work and then harmed you in some manner by whipping you irresponsibly. Best wishes, jevousadore

Twicehappy2x -> RE: Anti sub drop? (4/20/2007 3:59:14 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Devilslilsister the thread is http://www.collarchat.com/m_187955/mpage_1/key_sexual%2Cfrustration/tm.htm Great thread, thanks again. I clipped some of the parts that feel like me right now. "Its making me CRANKY and irratable and i'd LOVE to go and kick him" "How do i combat how i feel? Cos its more then a trick and a half to change those feelings once they get flowing through me. i dont want to feel like that. i hate feeling so terrible when it comes to him. Verra unpleasant. i try and think happy thoughts."

Celeste43 -> RE: Anti sub drop? (4/20/2007 4:10:05 AM)
It doesn't sound like you've been speaking plain enough to him. Stop being all subly and respectful and lay it out plain and simple. "Your extended sexual teasing is making me depressed. It makes me distrust you and withdraw from you. I can't tolerate it physically or emotionally." If he continues doing this for the next year, where do you think you will be then? Do you think you will withdraw from him totally? Stop responding to him, stop caring about him, stop believing that he cares for you? Because if you're on the road to any of that, then you are on the road out of the relationship. Me? I'd rather end it early enough that I won't be left depressed afterwards. Because eventually this situationally caused depression will turn into the real thing, if it hasn't already. And one side effect of antidepressants is decreased libido. It seems obvious that he doesn't know what he's doing here or just doesn't care. Ask him point blank which it is and then make your decision from that.

darkinshadows -> RE: Anti sub drop? (4/20/2007 4:21:50 AM)
One of the chemicals released during orgasm and sexual stimulation is prolactin. Prolactin is the hormone that stimulates lactation. The major effect of increased prolactin is a decrease in normal levels of sex hormones — estrogen in women and testosterone in men – and the effects of sudden changes to those two hormones are pretty wide known. This can cause tiredness and bouts of depression. It represses dopamine which is important to the whole survival instinct. Ie - it fucks with the whole eat/sleep/reproduce/flight or fight responses causing confusion and depression or disinterest. Its suggested that the sudden flooding of different hormones and chemicals can send the brain into confusion. In men, if they have high releases of prolactin, it can cause them to be subdued and back off (which Scooter may be doing - so it isnt always a 'blame the D-type' matter because he can't control the medical side in this instance) or even fall asleep immediately after orgasm. In a stable relationship that has had a routine, the dopamine adapts and learns when to ‘reward’ your own particular system - and if that doesn’t happen or suddenly changes it takes time for the release of the dopamine to react. So it means (in twice case on a hormone level) your body falls into a state of confusion – hence the whole up and down of sub space or drop. One minute you can be laughing, the next in tears – or in tears when you are laughing – or enjoying sensations or hating them. Because the body isn’t sure whether to reward or run away. Hope that makes some sense.

Twicehappy2x -> RE: Anti sub drop? (4/20/2007 4:21:50 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Celeste43 It doesn't sound like you've been speaking plain enough to him. If he continues doing this for the next year, where do you think you will be then? Do you think you will withdraw from him totally? Stop responding to him, stop caring about him, stop believing that he cares for you? Because if you're on the road to any of that, then you are on the road out of the relationship. It seems obvious that he doesn't know what he's doing here or just doesn't care. Ask him point blank which it is and then make your decision from that. I am fairly sure i explained it thoroughly to him. I do not want to nag him, i do not want to feel like he is being put into a corner where he has to do something. I want him to want to do something. If he does not want to do anything then at least stop poking. I have rationalized this, attempted to come up with reasons this cycle keeps getting repeated, anymore though i just want it to stop. And you are right, i have had to keep my distance off and on for a long time now but before i always got back to normal. This time it seems like it has been going on forever, and i really do not understand why. He says he loves me, i believe him but more and more i am questioning this. How can he love me and not see what is happening here? I can't find normal anymore and i question daily if he cares at all. And yes, it is already destroying the relationship, yet i have kept looking for answers to this. Problem is i don't trust myself anymore either.

Twicehappy2x -> RE: Anti sub drop? (4/20/2007 4:26:20 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: darkinshadows , it can cause them to be subdued and back off 9which Scooter may be doing) Dark thank you for the info. Perhaps i am now stuck in a negative feedback loop, glad to know it is also probably chemical which i had suspicions about. Scooter does however get off often during the week. The backing off he has various reasons for but he is always hard when he backs off so i do not think he has any chemical issues. And subdued in no way describes his laughing smiling, look what i can do attitude.

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