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Is it submission - 4/20/2007 1:44:16 PM   
aurora31


Posts: 266
Joined: 8/18/2005
Status: offline 		The other day while doing my chores around the house I had a bit of a discussion with myself. In doing my chores cooking, cleaning , doing the wash, keeping Sirs house how he likes it am I submitting to him. After all weather or not I am serving these are things I would do on a daily bases anyway. Keeping house is just a requirement of everyday life to me. But I know many who see doing these activities as submission and that is something I am having troubles wraping my head around. I would love to hear everyones thoughts on this. Hopefully it will give me some insight and maybe some different points of view to look at this from. Especially since my Sir sees it as a way I am allowed to serve him and I see it as just an everyday act that I would do even if I was not serving.

aurora
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RE: Is it submission - 4/20/2007 1:58:55 PM   
thetammyjo


Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline 		What does he do that is allowing you to do the chores rather than he do them himself?

For Fox, if he cleans part of the house, he's taking on chores I did before him so I have assigned him to do things to make my life easier. Same with making a meal or doing laundry. But if I didn't do that stuff myself before he came, I personally wouldn't see it as letting him serve me this way and I doubt he would see it more than chores he sees needing to be done.

Now he does do things that I wouldn't do (like mow the lawn) but he does them because he knows the husband would let it go forever and that I like a neat lawn (allergies are my number one enemy outside). So he does it to make me happier and my life easier.

That's the doing part. What about motivation?

Sometimes Fox does things because I command him to do so, sometimes he offers because he sees it will make my life easier. The first he does because he is my slave and he is obedient; the second is more because he's a good man who happens to be my slave and wishes to please me.

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to aurora31)
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RE: Is it submission - 4/20/2007 2:00:05 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		If you are keeping the house the way you like regardless of how others may feel about it then you are not submitting. If you are keeping house with the instructions, specifications, and requirements of a specific person (your dom) that is submitting to them. Look at a job outside the home... we submit to rules and requirements for a paycheck all the time. It is whether or not it is "your" way and if you would have done it for anyone.

My Daddy's second submissive was anal retentive about keeping house. She saw this as being a part of her submission. The problem is this: she would bitch and moan when he set a coffee cup on the counter instead of the dishwasher, or leave his toothbrush out. That is not submissive in my opinion. She was keeping house the way SHE liked, regardless of his opinions and/or feelings about it.

When I clean his house, it is with his needs in mind. I never bitch about a mess he makes. I ask him how he wants things, and if I do something that does not suit him he will have me change it.. I do so without comment mostly, although I may explain the logic of what I was trying to accomplish to give him more information to make his final decision. He asks my opinion because I have shown that I am pretty bright about things, my brain is his tool only... he still makes the choice.

Does that answer your question? ...lol

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to aurora31)
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RE: Is it submission - 4/20/2007 2:04:35 PM   
WilliamWizer


Posts: 223
Joined: 3/19/2007
Status: offline 		and some people would do a lot of things with their partners even if they weren't serving. don't worry too much about it. you are serving him and you want to serve him. you are not submissive because you do things that you wouldn't do. you are submissive because you feel the need to submit to him. bless you if you are able to serve him doing things you would do even if he doesn't required you to do them.
I know it's not the same but let me put a similar example. everybody needs to work to earn money but I work doing something I like to do and I would do it for free if I didn't need the money. even with that it is working. for me is both. a hobby and work. like for you doing the house chores is both. something your would do even if you weren't serving and a way to serve your master.

_____________________________

There's only two rules for a sub:
- she can do anything her Master didn't forbid her.
- she only needs to do what her Master told her to do.

(in reply to aurora31)
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RE: Is it submission - 4/20/2007 2:09:19 PM   
MasterNdorei


Posts: 658
Joined: 10/8/2005
Status: offline 		Most people can see the dynamic of "service" in being bathed by their sub/slave. For this reason many people would list "bathing another" as a something a sub/slave does. However, should a Dom/Master decide to bathe their sub/slave it can just as easily become part of how they take care of their property, just as a Dom might wash their own car.

The event of "bathing another" takes on the dynamic we assign it as an individual, or agree upon in a relationship. 

If you are wanting your housework to become more of a service experience for you, you can ask Him to give you specifics in how He would like things done, and follow them to the letter. Or as in (the movie) Secretary, maybe you would benefit from some sort of hobbling or bondage as you clean? Perhaps housework does not feel like service to you because you do it the same way you have been doing it all your life? 

Master's dorei

< Message edited by MasterNdorei -- 4/20/2007 2:12:48 PM >

(in reply to juliaoceania)
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RE: Is it submission - 4/20/2007 2:19:47 PM   
myobedience


Posts: 472
Joined: 1/28/2007
Status: offline 		Sir and I do not live together, one day.
From the moment I get up in the morning until I go to bed, I do either for myself or for another, what is pleasing and what I know pleases ... me or Him or anyone.   
Personally, I have been that way since I was a child.
I would NEVER just drop a towel or leave a shower scanky, or sit around while another clears off the table or even prepares the table for a meal.....  I am a helper.  Period.
My sister and I are doing a HUGE fundraiser for the Avon Walk for Breast cancer....I am her mule.  She organizes.  I dont get in the way of what she does best and I do what I am told to do.  If I dont do it right, damn, I have hell to pay.
Even as a child, if I did not dust or clean properly, do the wash or fold properly.... I had hell to pay.
I see my pleasant task in life to make others lives more peaceful, joyful and esp with my Sir, I do as he asks.  If he knows I am burning the candle at both ends and he sees I need a nap...I will take it, no matter what I must do for my sister and the fundraiser.
I clean my house NOW as I know Sir would like to see it when he comes over here.
When I am there, I do as he asks.  He is not inept to clean his own house and cook his own meals, so for me to pretend I can do it better is preposterous.  If he wants his books strightened up, he will ask me.  When we move in together, he better let me do it cause it drives me crazy how he does.... he knows I have an eye for creativity.
I believe we do what we do as submissives to make the lives of our One more pleasant, pleasing, comfortable, joyful and blessed.
"Chores" are NO different in my eyes.  "Errands" are no different in my eyes.    
If what I do pleases him, in the home, I am truly happy and blessed.                                                                                                 

_____________________________

With grace and gratitude, I am owned.
A Man who always seeks to be the best He can be for you is the only Man truly worthy of being called Master.

(in reply to WilliamWizer)
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RE: Is it submission - 4/20/2007 2:24:29 PM   
WhyteRavenne


Posts: 125
Joined: 9/16/2006
Status: offline 		If you feel a deep seated need for it to be submission, make it so.  If it's an act of love, then let it be such.  I keep my house for myself, family and a Dominant, but, not MY Dominant... lol... I live with my bestfriend and he and I have children.  I also iron his multitude of work clothes, but, I don't view it as submission, but lifemate love.  It's a matter of perspective.

_____________________________

Last night, you were, unhinged. You were like some desperate, howling demon. You frightened me.... do it again! - Morticia Addams

(in reply to aurora31)
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RE: Is it submission - 4/20/2007 3:00:17 PM   
CdnExplorer


Posts: 227
Joined: 2/12/2007
Status: offline 		Some might say you do that anyway so it isn't submission, but I look at it this way. If your Sir hasn't said anything about how you do these chores then he must be satisfied with the way you are doing them. I'd view it as not submission if you did it your way regardless of his preferences. Where nothing has been said it's more of a gray area, so if you want it to be a facet of your submission then call it that and be open to changing things however he sees fit.

(in reply to WhyteRavenne)
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RE: Is it submission - 4/20/2007 5:45:43 PM   
Elorin


Posts: 970
Joined: 8/22/2004
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline 		You would keep your own house if you weren't submitting. You would be doing your own dishes.

Would you be doing HIS dishes, or those of his other slaves? No.

In that way, it is submission. Same for laundry or picking up after others.

You may feel that "yeah, but still I do laundry and dishes and picking up at home, so doing it for everyone isn't that big a deal." It does, however, free up other resources. You are doing housework which means a) he doesn't have to do it b) his other slaves don't have to do it. You are doing it not the other slaves because he wants you doing it. If you do it during the day, while others are at work, you are making a more pleasant home to come home to, and you are making it so that those things can be done and focus can be made on relationships, D/s, S&M, or relaxation in the evening.

You are submitting because he asked you to do this, and you are doing it. I would get M drinks whether I was his sub or not - but doing it would not give me a special smile if I wasn't his sub. Part of that is because as his sub I know that I am to kneel, offer a drink in the right hand, bow my head, and that if it is a can it should be opened with the opening facing him when it is opened. Part of that is because I am glad he didn't have to get up and go get it himself.

So whether you would be doing dishes whether you are submissive or not, it may help to focus on what you are saving him from doing to feel submissive pleasure in the service.

~E

(in reply to aurora31)
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RE: Is it submission - 4/20/2007 6:26:50 PM   
smilingjaguar


Posts: 271
Status: offline 		Well, I'm not the domestic type at all.  I dislike cooking, cleaning, the whole kit and kaboodle.  I would keep a clean house on my own, but in submission to him I keep the house to *his* standards.  He's a bit more anal retentive about the house than I am.

(in reply to Elorin)
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RE: Is it submission - 4/20/2007 7:34:23 PM   
slaveish


Posts: 1086
Joined: 2/19/2007
Status: offline 		That you are keeping His house and not your own makes it seem, to me, as though it is submission. You are providing a service to your Sir, aka serving Him. If ~he~ thinks it is submission, it is. Either way, you've got a nice clean house and aren't killing yourself by doing something you hate or is foreign to you. Good job, I'd say.

I would be very hard-pressed to do the job my sister slave does in the house. I am terrible at housework and wouldn't know what to do without direction. I am very inattentive to such details, and soon enough those little loose ends winds up looking like a HUGE mess that takes hours upon horrible hours to clean.

Housework is work, regardless if it's something you'd do anyway.

_____________________________

You only lose what you cling to. ~~Gautama Sidharta

If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other. ~~Mother Teresa

(in reply to smilingjaguar)
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RE: Is it submission - 4/20/2007 7:43:42 PM   
BOUNTYHUNTER


Posts: 9259
Joined: 2/5/2004
Status: offline 		Every day every hour every minute a slave/sub is a submissive or had damm well be.Just wrap your mind around this notion you are doing this because you want to ,not because it has be demanded of you, you are keeping his house not only through your submission but your love as well..

_____________________________

US going to hell in a hand basket/

(in reply to aurora31)
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RE: Is it submission - 4/20/2007 7:48:08 PM   
jauntyone


Posts: 543
Joined: 2/27/2007
From: Anchorage Alaska
Status: offline 		Greetings
 
For myself, no. Household chores are something that I am supposed to be doing anyway and not because he tells me to  I just believe that such things as that are a womans job, not a mans. ( this is only my opinion )
 
I wish  you well
 
melissa

(in reply to aurora31)
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RE: Is it submission - 4/20/2007 7:52:40 PM   
myobedience


Posts: 472
Joined: 1/28/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jauntyone

Greetings
 
For myself, no. Household chores are something that I am supposed to be doing anyway and not because he tells me to  I just believe that such things as that are a womans job, not a mans. ( this is only my opinion )
 
I wish  you well
 
melissa


I so do LOVE gender roles...does that make me old fashion or just silly?
I admit tho...he is a better cook than I....he fell silent tonight when I said I made homemade turkey vegy soup... I could hear his mind wrapping around it....LOLOL

_____________________________

With grace and gratitude, I am owned.
A Man who always seeks to be the best He can be for you is the only Man truly worthy of being called Master.

(in reply to jauntyone)
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RE: Is it submission - 4/20/2007 7:54:31 PM   
jauntyone


Posts: 543
Joined: 2/27/2007
From: Anchorage Alaska
Status: offline 		Greetings myobedience
 
LOL I am trying to wrap my mind around that also; though it does sound kind of interesting.
 
I will admit, Master is a wonderful cook also. I think it's a man thing
 
I wish you well
 
melissa

(in reply to myobedience)
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RE: Is it submission - 4/20/2007 8:00:51 PM   
Owned1


Posts: 847
Joined: 7/6/2005
From: Toronto, Ontario
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

When I clean his house, it is with his needs in mind. I never bitch about a mess he makes. I ask him how he wants things, and if I do something that does not suit him he will have me change it.. I do so without comment mostly, although I may explain the logic of what I was trying to accomplish to give him more information to make his final decision. He asks my opinion because I have shown that I am pretty bright about things, my brain is his tool only... he still makes the choice.

Does that answer your question? ...lol


I think julia said it best,  my sentiments exactly!

Owned

_____________________________

~~in His Chains i am free~~

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RE: Is it submission - 4/20/2007 10:59:40 PM   
smilingjaguar


Posts: 271
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveish

That you are keeping His house and not your own makes it seem, to me, as though it is submission. You are providing a service to your Sir, aka serving Him. If ~he~ thinks it is submission, it is. Either way, you've got a nice clean house and aren't killing yourself by doing something you hate or is foreign to you. Good job, I'd say.

I would be very hard-pressed to do the job my sister slave does in the house. I am terrible at housework and wouldn't know what to do without direction. I am very inattentive to such details, and soon enough those little loose ends winds up looking like a HUGE mess that takes hours upon horrible hours to clean.

Housework is work, regardless if it's something you'd do anyway.


You sound like me with the housework.  He has everything laid out in such a way that my littlest UM could do it.  It's a rotating sweep through the house in a week's time so that I only what's on the list for Monday, Tuesday, etc.  He HAD to do it that way because goodness knows I get completely overwhelmed otherwise.  When I was single I just didn't have to deal with the volume of things I do with Him, me, and 2 little UMs.  He teases me often about having turned me into a little housewife, but I'm a housewife following a manual. ;)  It's definitely submission, because there is no way I've ever worried with some of the stuff He does as far as housework.

(in reply to slaveish)
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RE: Is it submission - 4/20/2007 11:02:36 PM   
proudsub


Posts: 6142
Joined: 1/31/2004
From: Washington
Status: offline 		I have always done the chores you mention and until i learned about D/s i thought i was just being a good wife, even though many of my friends shared their chores with their spouses. I have also always waited on on Hubby hand and foot because i enjoy it.  Once i learned about D/s relationships i realized that i was truly submissive by nature and just hadn't had a name for it.  I do think serving that way is submission even if he isn't demanding it.

_____________________________

proudsub

"Without goals you become what you were. With goals you become what you wish." .

"You are entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts"--Alan Greenspan


(in reply to aurora31)
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RE: Is it submission - 4/21/2007 2:55:32 AM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline 		~Fast Reply~

I view housework as serving because if he wasn't living with me, I'd do the chores when I felt like it not when it was best for him.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to proudsub)
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RE: Is it submission - 4/21/2007 6:53:40 AM   
TigressFL


Posts: 239
Joined: 6/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

Greetings

For myself, no. Household chores are something that I am supposed to be doing anyway and not because he tells me to I just believe that such things as that are a womans job, not a mans. ( this is only my opinion )

I wish you well

melissa
ORIGINAL: jauntyone


In the first sentence you state that you are just doing what you are suppose to do yet you just had to take it a step further and throw in your sexist statement "again". I have read your sexist "opinion" many times in other threads and it seems to me that you "make" opportunities to say this and think that simply dressing it up with your "in my opinion" makes it non-offensive. Had I only read it once or twice from you, sure, but after reading it over and over from you, no your "IMO" doesn't hold water. It is great to believe something, however, when you repeat it over and over you are then stepping into the world or trying to shove it down others throats and that is not acceptable regardless of what you think. Remember "Freedom is Speech" is not a ONE-WAY street. No one owes it to you to read your opinion and say nothing to you about it simply because you try to dress it up. Now that you know you are offending, I wonder if you will state your opinions without tossing in your sexist opinion or will you just keep making opportunities to repeat yourself. I wonder.

Tigress~FL

I apologize to the Op for taking this side step from the subject.


(in reply to jauntyone)
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