RE: I know better than your Master does (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion



Message


Aswad -> RE: I know better than your Master does (4/21/2007 4:23:07 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

I’ve been pondering this thought for some time, and the “Anti sub drop” thread finally provoked me enough to write about it.


Thank you for an interesting thread. :)

quote:

In the other thread, some folks actually admitted had they not known the OP better, they would have advised differently.


I would be one of those, I'm afraid. [:'(]

I believe I apologized for the inappropriate advice as well.

quote:

I wonder if, and I truly hope, we can all think twice before screaming “abuse!” at someone, or before we tell a slave her Master doesn’t care about her, or before we accuse someone of “chest thumping” and acting ape-like (as said in yet another thread last night) for managing his slave the way he sees is best, simply because we don’t understand that form of management.


In general, I try to assume the OP is describing things correctly, and that particular OP indicated something that would have become a serious problem for her if left unresolved, and that she'd discussed it in plain terms to no effect. In that specific case, however, her idea of "plain terms" did not include conveying what was causing the problem, so it wasn't an issue of management style, just her responding in an unexpected way to something and not explaining to him what that something was, while he actually wanted to deal with it.

I sometimes see management styles I don't see as conductive to the stated goals of the Dom/Master, but I don't object to that. I object to breaking agreed-upon terms of consent, and sometimes point out when I think something could be dealt with in a different way.

If an OP asks for help, I don't usually try to judge whether they're posting a lot of "drama", as someone put it in the thread you mentioned. I have to assume they're grown up enough not to do that, and that they have a serious problem that they'd like some help with. Whether they're the dominant party or the submissive party doesn't matter; they're members of this community.

quote:

I never thought I would post a "rant" on these boards, but one of the reasons I held off writing this thread is because there really isn’t a question to ask here.


I think there are questions to ask, but they're not likely to be answered. They involve communication, context, reference terminology, etc. for the most part.

quote:

How about – can we simply be more aware and thoughtful, that what is right for us is not necessarily the right way for others?  We say that all the time, but our reactions to people really show otherwise.


Not everyone here is okay with what everyone else does, or accepts that they cannot judge what is right for others by what is right for themselves, unfortunately, and I wouldn't expect their reactions to be in line with a different POV. People only have their own experiences by which to judge what is being said.

That said, I'm okay with whatever all parties have agreed to. My comments on the other thread were, as noted, based on incorrect assumptions that were, in turn, based on the OP, which is all I had to go on, as I didn't know the people.

There are several thousand people on this board, so knowing every one of them personally is unrealistic, which is why it's vitally important for an OP to include enough context for the issue they want to discuss.

Just my guilty 2 cents.




Aswad -> RE: I know better than your Master does (4/21/2007 4:30:22 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: simplyangelic1

Unfortunately that isn't always the reality I've found.  Sometimes the sub or slave can be too close to a harmful situtation that they don't see the danger.  In those instances sometimes it is the outsiders to our personal lives that jerk us back to reality and to safety.


I think she meant to say that we shouldn't be so quick to judge, and that we should remember that the terms of consent dictate what is acceptable in any given relationship, rather than any preconceived notions we might have about what "should be" acceptable.

She didn't say, and hopefully didn't mean, that there aren't any cases where the D/M is irresponsible or dangerous.




ownedgirlie -> RE: I know better than your Master does (4/21/2007 4:34:51 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo

I'm sorry if my common sense and what I believe is a realistic approach seems rude or sarcastic.


I did not see your comments, or anyone else's comments on this thread as rude or sarcastic at all.  I wanted to open the floor to some dialogue on the topic, and that is precisely what is happening, quite productively too, I think. 

I appreciate all the thoughts shared on the subject. While I do not post my personal issues on this board, I do recognize that sharing anything with others opens the door for them to form their opinions and even comment in the manner they choose to do so.  I tend to have a pet peeve with certain types of comments, but that's my own issue, and I end up forming my own opinion in turn.  No harm no foul. 

Thanks to those of you who have shared an opinion here.  I appreciate reading them all.




Aswad -> RE: I know better than your Master does (4/21/2007 4:35:04 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

When I was in a previously harmful situation, the only way I saw it was when some very kind people asked me a series of questions about myself, which brought me to see my own answers.  Telling me my partner was an rotten asshole only made me retreat further inside myself to handle it alone. 


There is, IMO, a middle ground between laying out a trail of breadcrumbs, and blasting fire: explaining how one interprets a situation, including what problems, if any, one sees in that situation, and why.

Directing insults at someone is very rarely a viable communication option, particularly the "rotten asshole" variety of insults.




ownedgirlie -> RE: I know better than your Master does (4/21/2007 4:38:33 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad

I think she meant to say that we shouldn't be so quick to judge, and that we should remember that the terms of consent dictate what is acceptable in any given relationship, rather than any preconceived notions we might have about what "should be" acceptable.

She didn't say, and hopefully didn't mean, that there aren't any cases where the D/M is irresponsible or dangerous.



You got my point spot-on, Aswad.  Thank you for all of your comments.  I appreciate what you have shared here.




mnottertail -> RE: I know better than your Master does (4/21/2007 4:40:20 PM)

oh------------

I know better and you know I am right ownie----------


The MassiveMaster




ownedgirlie -> RE: I know better than your Master does (4/21/2007 4:41:47 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

oh------------

I know better and you know I am right ownie----------


The MassiveMaster



You are always the exception, Ronnie!  [sm=flowers.gif]




Aswad -> RE: I know better than your Master does (4/21/2007 4:47:39 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo

Sharing anything online automatically means that you've opened up yourself to "you are right/wrong" sort of responses as well as simply sharing similar experiences, getting questions, or being ignored.


This doesn't mean that the people who reply shouldn't try to avoid giving those replies that are unconstructive, which is what I kind of take this thread to be about, although I agree that the OP should expect human nature to be evident in the replies they get to a question asked of a group of humans.

quote:

I'll also say that when someone posts and ask if this is normal, common, proper, whatever, they have really answered their own question by posting. If they were confident or comfortable then they probably wouldn't be asking the rest of us.


Nah, some people have need of confirmation, or use such a question to get a slightly different, but related, question across. Or they may just be curious, etc...

quote:

If you aren't confident or comfortable in your relationship then I do thinks it's good to re-evaluate it


I disagree. There are many times in life when we aren't confident about and/or comfortable with something. That doesn't mean we need to reevaluate our relationships and our lifestyle, or that we mustn't go ahead. Just that we need to communicate about it, be aware of the situation, and try to deal with it.




Suleiman -> RE: I know better than your Master does (4/21/2007 5:09:21 PM)

Wow. Good rant - but one should expect that from someone who's been active long enough to have a four paddle rating. Definately something to ponder.




Wildfleurs -> RE: I know better than your Master does (4/21/2007 5:26:04 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

I’ve been pondering this thought for some time, and the “Anti sub drop” thread finally provoked me enough to write about it.

Those who have read the thread witnessed a slave who brought an issue to the board, only to be told by the masses what is right and wrong for her, and how her owners ought to be treating her.  We see this time and time again – not just in these forums but in life in general.  Everyone seems to know what is best for everyone else.


I absolutely get what you are saying and agree except in the situations when someone asks for advice.  If you come to a web board and ask for advice that your owner/dominant/partner/top can solve, I think you are already signaling that you value people on a web boards fairly strongly and are in fact looking for someone to tell you whats right and wrong (although typically people just seem to want someone to tell them that they are already right.

Other than that, I absolutely think its rude to do what you outlined.

C~

Edited to add I mean you in a universal sense of the word you, not you ownedgirlie.




thetammyjo -> RE: I know better than your Master does (4/21/2007 5:43:58 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: imthatacheyouhav

quote:

*arches eyebrow*

I don't believe I was mean or sarcastic.


i don't believe you were either. Not even alittle.... i just was commenting on the fact that it does happen and i just dont understand it.



Oh, ok. I'm glad.

Darned replies in threads. Can get very confusing and I forget that myself.




thetammyjo -> RE: I know better than your Master does (4/21/2007 5:50:15 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad

quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo

quote:

If you aren't confident or comfortable in your relationship then I do thinks it's good to re-evaluate it


I disagree. There are many times in life when we aren't confident about and/or comfortable with something. That doesn't mean we need to reevaluate our relationships and our lifestyle, or that we mustn't go ahead. Just that we need to communicate about it, be aware of the situation, and try to deal with it.



I don't think re-evaluating means that things ends. It means taking an objective and fresh look at things.

I think you read more into what I mean when I use the term re-evaluate. In fact I think its a very good thing to be consistantly re-evaluating things, being aware of everything that is going on and trying to stay on top of why things happen. Otherwise things can hit you out of the blue and our instant reactions may not be the most healthy actions.

Too often (I know this from experience myself) we can get caught up in the emotions and instead of stepping back and re-evaluating things and then talking to the person(s) involved we turn to others or worse turn inward to ourselves where it can fester. I think many of the posts that the OP sees which end up having judgements made about abuse or other things begin because is just reacting and re-evaluating what happened and discussing it with the most appropriate person.




NakedOnMyChain -> RE: I know better than your Master does (4/21/2007 5:57:27 PM)

In reply directly to the OP, without reading responses, I say that of course that's going to happen.  People respond and react with opinion.  When someone asks for advice from multiple people that don't know the person well, they get a mish-mash of answers drawn from the little knowledge that was given.  Honestly, the answers tell you more about the person replying than they do the OP, since everyone draws from their own experiences and views.  I guess what I'm saying is that there should be a balance.  You can't expect people not to jump to conclusions if that's all they're given to work with, but you should expect a bit of tolerance.

And I agree.  We should strive to be more aware and more tolerant, but I have to believe that most of us are doing the best we can with what we have to help others.  That is the point of these boards.  The question is whether we missed the point.




Aswad -> RE: I know better than your Master does (4/21/2007 6:06:57 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Celeste43

Because frequently a master doesn't bother to take more information into account. Indeed there are dynamics on this board where the s is not permitted to give him additional information. So if he is deliberately not learning enough to handle a situation, where else can a sub go but to other people in an attempt to salvage a relationship?


If the sub doesn't have anywhere else to turn, and her partner is uninterested in what she feels to be the problem, and uninterested in helping her deal with it, then it's a simple question of dealing herselv vs leaving.

If her partner doesn't want her discussing her private life on-line, she shouldn't do so, quite simply; it's disrespectful. If he hasn't said he minds, but hasn't said he doesn't, she should stick to discussing the issue generally, rather than their specific case.

When only one party is supposed to call the shots, the responsibility for "salvaging" the relationship lies with that party, and if the other party/ies cannot trust that this will be handled appropriately ... there are other issues to deal with.




Aswad -> RE: I know better than your Master does (4/21/2007 6:11:22 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

You got my point spot-on, Aswad.  Thank you for all of your comments.  I appreciate what you have shared here.


Thanks. Nice to get something right [:D]




Twicehappy2x -> RE: I know better than your Master does (4/21/2007 6:14:21 PM)

Nice thread, thank you for starting it.
 
Actually very few folks came on and criticized Scooter, most shared their experiences or knowledge of the biological responses involved. Most know us from the boards and were very supportive and showed a great deal of faith in the fact we love each other.
 
One poster came back and criticized my posting feeling badly for Scooter and Jewel, without regard to the fact that in several years time  in my various incarnations, and not once ever since i have been with Scooter, i never ever posted any thing of a personal nature.
 
And as far as that goes, well there has been personal animosity between that particular poster and i for quite some time.
 
I was quite amazed to discover that the biggest critics of my bringing my problem to the boards in desperation were folks who regularly offered advice to others in their posts on various issues. Sort of almost saying, it is OK for you but not in my house.
 
 
 
  




Aswad -> RE: I know better than your Master does (4/21/2007 6:39:48 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo

I don't think re-evaluating means that things ends. It means taking an objective and fresh look at things. I think you read more into what I mean when I use the term re-evaluate.


Ah. Yes, I did. Sorry about that.

quote:

In fact I think its a very good thing to be consistantly re-evaluating things, being aware of everything that is going on and trying to stay on top of why things happen. Otherwise things can hit you out of the blue and our instant reactions may not be the most healthy actions.


I agree. Although it is easy to get caught up in a situation, and not be able to take the neccessary step(s) back. I learned the hard way, and it cost me years. When we don't step back and "take things in" anew, we don't get a different perspective.

I must say I liked agirl's comment about writing a draft and reading it the next day. That can help a lot sometimes. I try to do that if I'm going to write something long (by my standards). When you read things without the original frame of mind as context, you're getting pretty close to how someone else would read it.




ownedgirlie -> RE: I know better than your Master does (4/21/2007 6:44:39 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Twicehappy2x

Nice thread, thank you for starting it.
 
Actually very few folks came on and criticized Scooter, most shared their experiences or knowledge of the biological responses involved. Most know us from the boards and were very supportive and showed a great deal of faith in the fact we love each other.
 


Hi Twice,

It wasn't just your thread that created these thoughts in me.  I had been mulling them for some time, and your thread gave me the final nudge to go ahead and write.

Many seem to think I was only talking about those who seek advice.  I was not.  In fact, the references I made to myself were nothing of the kind, as I do not recall ever asking advice on these forums.  I was simply saying that people tend to react to others as though they know better, whether advice was sought or not.  There is another thread, asking about submissives whose profiles tell people to seek permission from their doms.  The OP wanted to know what people thought of that practice. Some of the replies there were critical and judgmental, about nobody in particular.  Things like that happen all the time.  It is a pet peeve of mine, is all.  The point of this OP was to ask if we can be more aware and thoughtful when expressing opinions of others whom we do not know.  I found it interesting that so many of the replies did not speak to that at all; rather people justified the practice of judging what is best for others.  Such is human nature, I suppose.  But I do hope even a few minds rethink doing so.

Thank you all for your shared opinions.




minnetar -> RE: I know better than your Master does (4/21/2007 6:46:53 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad

quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo

I don't think re-evaluating means that things ends. It means taking an objective and fresh look at things. I think you read more into what I mean when I use the term re-evaluate.


Ah. Yes, I did. Sorry about that.

quote:

In fact I think its a very good thing to be consistantly re-evaluating things, being aware of everything that is going on and trying to stay on top of why things happen. Otherwise things can hit you out of the blue and our instant reactions may not be the most healthy actions.


I agree. Although it is easy to get caught up in a situation, and not be able to take the neccessary step(s) back. I learned the hard way, and it cost me years. When we don't step back and "take things in" anew, we don't get a different perspective.

I must say I liked agirl's comment about writing a draft and reading it the next day. That can help a lot sometimes. I try to do that if I'm going to write something long (by my standards). When you read things without the original frame of mind as context, you're getting pretty close to how someone else would read it.



i must say that i admire reading Your perspective on things as it is always very intelligent and well thought out.

minnetar




TemptingNviceSub -> RE: I know better than your Master does (4/21/2007 7:11:39 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: hisannabelle

greetings ownedgirlie,

the simple fact is that often when we respond to posts, they are posts asking for advice based on very limited information. should we just not respond to a large number of posts, then, because we don't know the whole story? i don't always presume that the poster's owners know them inside and out, because sometimes they don't; take the "i never wanted to be poly" thread in the poly forum. that, to me, was a clear-cut case of the master lying to the submissive and then trying to push her into something she wasn't comfortable doing and never thought she had agreed to do. yes, i am saying that based on limited information, but based on her feedback, it seems i (and other posters) were right.

i am not saying that we won't get things wrong, that we won't make assumptions, etc. the wonderful thing about that is that's really the only way to respond to this other than to refrain from responding with any sort of advice...AND the op does not have to TAKE the advice. it's very easy just to overlook advice that you consider to be unhelpful from a place of wrong assumption, or to post, "thank you for the thoughts," and perhaps add a note about why the assumption was wrong. i posted a thread in ask a submissive about inadequate aftercare, and a whole bunch of responses seemed to me as though people automatically assumed my dominant must be neglectful, or something like that, when in reality his actions at this time were perfectly understandable (to me) - i just wanted to know how people coped with inadequate aftercare regardless of how the situation got to be that way. so i simply tried to explain that he wasn't being neglectful, and then sifted the jewels from the ruffage.

the fact is, although no one can know us better than those who own us and we ourselves, i can't imagine any other method of operating on this board other than to not post at all when it's possible i might be making an assumption, in which case i would not post a large percentage of the time. i think that it's the responsibility of the original poster, when getting responses like this, to be able to overlook or respond unshaken to wrong assumptions...we do not HAVE to let responses on a message board affect our relationships; we can CHOOSE to take certain pieces of advice and ignore others.

respectfully,
annabelle.

I agree here with hisanna..especially to the portion that states we can CHOOSE to take certain pieces of advice and ignore the rest...Tempting




Page: <<   < prev  1 2 [3] 4 5   next >   >>

Valid CSS!




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy
0.046875