RE: I know better than your Master does

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Aswad -> RE: I know better than your Master does (4/21/2007 8:46:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: minnetar i must say that i admire reading Your perspective on things as it is always very intelligent and well thought out. Thank you for the compliment.[:D]

KnightofMists -> RE: I know better than your Master does (4/21/2007 8:56:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LaTigresse I loved what KoM wrote.He is one of the posters that I have really come to respect in this regard. For me it goes back to personal accountability or as some put it, taking the high road. Thank you... but I suspect that you are in the minority. Many do not like my direct and abrasive approach. There seems to be this misconception that we should be sensitive and compassionate when we express our thoughts towards others. Often times, I raise issues that few have the arrogance and/or stupidity to comment on. Many seek advice only to find the answer they want to hear and not what they need to hear. I am not interested in tailoring my thougths or opinions just to save a person's feelings or give them what they want. If I think it, feel it.. I will state it. Frankly, everyone here is of little significance to me personally. I hold no emotions of significance be they positive or negative towards anyone on these boards. There are many that I enjoy hearing a thought or two from.. and many more that have as much significance to me as bug hitting the windshield. But in both cases, I will not be give it a moments thought if they suddenly disappeared from the boards. Am I cold.. yeah.. I am actually. I save my warmth for my girls.. alandra and krya. Special friends like denika and Rob. and a host of other people that affect me in very important ways and people who I affect as well. I will also add.. that sometimes an outsider does know better. Sometimes what is one the end of our noses escapes us. Sometimes we are the last to know the truth. This is not to say that an outsider will know better. But often times their opinion is gained not only by their own beliefs and values, but by the message or perspective we communicate to others. Sometimes.. we get exactly the response our message deserves. Thou the response is not reflective to our given situation. Because we didn't actually represent out truth fairly or completely. I wonder if we can every know our own truth. Yes we can see what in our hearts and minds... but looking towards anyone.. we only see that from our own perspective. It is these other individuals of significance that can affect our truth. How often has a person believed they lived in a faithful relationship... only to find out their partner has be cheating. Has their truth changed? or is it they just become more deeply aware of their actual truth. We have our Precieved Truth and the Actual Truth..... it's great when they are the same.. but often times they are not. Sometimes.. another does know better than we know ourselves.

marieToo -> RE: I know better than your Master does (4/21/2007 9:28:10 PM)
Do unto others.....

mnottertail -> RE: I know better than your Master does (4/21/2007 9:31:20 PM)
I have a twin brother Don, between me and him, we know everything---knowing better than your master--- go ahead, ask anything Ron

marieToo -> RE: I know better than your Master does (4/21/2007 9:42:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail I have a twin brother Don, between me and him, we know everything---knowing better than your master--- go ahead, ask anything Ron Well, if he's anything like you....I already know his answer to every question.

WhiplashSmile -> RE: I know better than your Master does (4/21/2007 11:10:31 PM)
There are times when I am guilty as charged of this crime myself. Because of what I precieve as ones actions is not something that I myself would do. There have been times, where I myself have had to take a deep breath and take a look at the other side of the coin. There was one thread awhile back ago, about a sub being left unattended in a house, bound with a burning candle. Based on the information from the OP, I was very assertive about it's on Responsible for anybody to Leave a house unattended with buring Candles or Leave the house with a bound submissive. The obvious no brainer safety reasons, in mind. I pointed out Negliegent behavior! Hell, at times I think many people call it like they see it from the information the OP writes. In many cases the OP is bothered by something. I know when I start a thread with a serious Question in Mind, I always try to ask for views from both sides of the coin. I realize that some people will have a bias or point of view. Not every OP is good about wanting to ask for both sides, they are stating their own side in the matter as best they can. Now many people on here are just hoping to do good. A sort of rush to save a persons day type of thing. They don't mean any harm, they really want to help or do good. At times trying to do good can be a trap in itself. There was one thread where I found myself giving advice solely on my own personal take, later on I added more to it. Because I myself could have been wrong. I just asserted it as my take or gut feeling right or wrong. However, I was open to being wrong. We as human beings are Quick to want to save people from bad people at times, that we don't always question both sides of the story. We just go by what we've been told. At times we don't ask enough or the right questions before responding. We tend to get right on it, and do our best to save or help another human being. At times we are blind that we might be causing more harm than good. In the End it's up to the OP as to what to do, course of action or feelings and thoughts. Nobody on here is really responsible for anothers actions, some of us simply do the best we can do. From time to time, I can be a smart ass. There are certain types of questions or threads that just seem to bring this out of me. I'm not always a nice person, I try to be. But certain types of personalities just bring the smart ass out of me. I've had a few moments where I myself have gotten a little bent, angry or upset in thread postings. These were issues that hit really hard and close to home, with people I love or care about. At times I do and can get upset. At times I suspect many people get in a pissed off mood or take what they read personally and to heart. That they are emotionally invoked in their responses.. Emotions override Logic at times.. Emotions can make us blind to the whole truth. There are moments when I tried see another aspect or angle other people were not thinking about in a few threads. Needless to say, I'm a human being. I'm not perfect, and I have my own faults like everybody else does. I fall short and other times exceed... in the end it's a balance in advice, thoughts, opinions.

mnottertail -> RE: I know better than your Master does (4/21/2007 11:21:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: marieToo quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail I have a twin brother Don, between me and him, we know everything---knowing better than your master--- go ahead, ask anything Ron Well, if he's anything like you....I already know his answer to every question. actually in this case you are clueless(nothing particularly different about that), but what may the answer be, prithee? Ron

marieToo -> RE: I know better than your Master does (4/21/2007 11:26:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail quote: ORIGINAL: marieToo quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail I have a twin brother Don, between me and him, we know everything---knowing better than your master--- go ahead, ask anything Ron Well, if he's anything like you....I already know his answer to every question. actually in this case you are clueless(nothing particularly different about that), but what may the answer be, prithee? Ron My name is not prithee. You must have me confused with some other clueless girl.

mnottertail -> RE: I know better than your Master does (4/21/2007 11:28:54 PM)
No, MarieToo; you were the clueless one I had in mind as I wrote that. Ron

marieToo -> RE: I know better than your Master does (4/21/2007 11:30:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail No, MarieToo; you were the clueless one I had in mind as I wrote that. Ron eh, you've seen one clueless girl, you've seen 'em all.

mnottertail -> RE: I know better than your Master does (4/21/2007 11:32:24 PM)
but not you; prithee.

marieToo -> RE: I know better than your Master does (4/21/2007 11:37:15 PM)
Sure--start modifying statements with your fancy semi-colons to try and throw me off track--It'll never work. My cluelessness is way cuter than prithee's.

mnottertail -> RE: I know better than your Master does (4/21/2007 11:39:19 PM)
Here's the news: you can affect cute, but I live me every fuckin day of the week. Ron

crouchingtigress -> RE: I know better than your Master does (4/22/2007 12:01:26 AM)
aloha owned. people see life through their individual filters. each persons perspective is only ever that, and i think that each person adds value to any discussion , because there are often little nuggets of gold, in the mountain of stone...and that is why we are all here.... your nugget may be different from my nugget... and too please lets not forget that sometimes folks do know better then the master....Masters are not infallible. and and Masters often welcome a hand now and then if they can learn a new thing to make their sub happy they had not thought of before.

xxKyu -> RE: I know better than your Master does (4/22/2007 1:36:57 AM)
Thank you for sharing that, owned. I couldn't have put it better myself. Though I've not yet bore witness to the event you're describing here, I've seen it happen elsewhere.

ownedgirlie -> RE: I know better than your Master does (4/22/2007 2:15:15 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: KnightofMists quote: ORIGINAL: LaTigresse I loved what KoM wrote.He is one of the posters that I have really come to respect in this regard. For me it goes back to personal accountability or as some put it, taking the high road. Thank you... but I suspect that you are in the minority. Many do not like my direct and abrasive approach. There seems to be this misconception that we should be sensitive and compassionate when we express our thoughts towards others. Often times, I raise issues that few have the arrogance and/or stupidity to comment on. Many seek advice only to find the answer they want to hear and not what they need to hear. I am not interested in tailoring my thougths or opinions just to save a person's feelings or give them what they want. If I think it, feel it.. I will state it. Frankly, everyone here is of little significance to me personally. I hold no emotions of significance be they positive or negative towards anyone on these boards. There are many that I enjoy hearing a thought or two from.. and many more that have as much significance to me as bug hitting the windshield. But in both cases, I will not be give it a moments thought if they suddenly disappeared from the boards. Am I cold.. yeah.. I am actually. I save my warmth for my girls.. alandra and krya. Special friends like denika and Rob. and a host of other people that affect me in very important ways and people who I affect as well. I will also add.. that sometimes an outsider does know better. Sometimes what is one the end of our noses escapes us. Sometimes we are the last to know the truth. This is not to say that an outsider will know better. But often times their opinion is gained not only by their own beliefs and values, but by the message or perspective we communicate to others. Sometimes.. we get exactly the response our message deserves. Thou the response is not reflective to our given situation. Because we didn't actually represent out truth fairly or completely. I wonder if we can every know our own truth. Yes we can see what in our hearts and minds... but looking towards anyone.. we only see that from our own perspective. It is these other individuals of significance that can affect our truth. How often has a person believed they lived in a faithful relationship... only to find out their partner has be cheating. Has their truth changed? or is it they just become more deeply aware of their actual truth. We have our Precieved Truth and the Actual Truth..... it's great when they are the same.. but often times they are not. Sometimes.. another does know better than we know ourselves. I think you may have misunderstood my OP. The nature of this thread wasn't about people who choose to spend their time with insignificant people, or even about whether people are compassionate or abrasive, although your thoughts were interesting and I appreciate all that everyone has shared, including this. You do make an interesting point, however, about the way people communicate and how they are understood as a result. I've always been the first one to say it is up to the speaker to be understood by his/her audience. Oddly enough, those I have said that to, who in prior events blamed the listener for not understanding, now blame the speaker, but I see that as a good thing - that perhaps my point was abosrbed. Regardless, I suppose I haven't realized that so many Dominants really don't know better about their submissives than the general populous, as it seems to be the norm that this is what others address, no? (Said sarcastically, although with tongue in cheek). Personally I find it unfortunate that we as a population tend to assume and address the negative rather than assuming and hoping otherwise. I personally do not agree with the notion that most people can not see past their own noses in relationships, and that this is why they must be told they are not in a good situation (since they can't seem to recognize it themselves, according to your post?). (To clarify, I know you did not say most can not see beyond their noses, and I agree that some actually can not, but the rate in which people seem to know better for others seems to indicate that the majority think most can not see past their noses). I would wonder then, for all those who say if a dominant reads his submissive's email it is not a good relationship, or if a dominant manages her money, etc., then he is a micromanager and insecure....are they right? And can she just not see beyond her nose and recognize the bad situation she is in? The point of my OP is that the majoirity seems to think just that, which is different than I think - that the dominant knows what is best for her and manages her accordingly. I will also repeat, as I have said throughout this thread, that I am not solely speaking about those who ask for advice, but about comments and opinions expressed in general, such as the ones I used in the example above. While I will agree that there are times an outsider does know better, I content that such times are the exception, not the rule. Thank you for your thoughts. (edited to fix a typo)

KnightofMists -> RE: I know better than your Master does (4/22/2007 7:45:55 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie I think you may have misunderstood my OP. The nature of this thread wasn't about people who choose to spend their time with insignificant people, or even about whether people are compassionate or abrasive, although your thoughts were interesting and I appreciate all that everyone has shared, including this. yes... I undersood you post rather clearly... Quoting what in the first paragraph is directed towards what I quoted.. and not the OP. Not everything that is posted on these boards is directly or even indirectly relating to the OP. quote: You do make an interesting point, however, about the way people communicate and how they are understood as a result. I've always been the first one to say it is up to the speaker to be understood by his/her audience. Oddly enough, those I have said that to, who in prior events blamed the listener for not understanding, now blame the speaker, but I see that as a good thing - that perhaps my point was abosrbed. Communications is a the responsibility of two... Speaker and Listener. Unless each do what is required to have Effective Communication.. there maybe communication... but it will not be effective. Over time... if communication is bad enough for long enough.. there will be no communication. quote: (To clarify, I know you did not say most can not see beyond their noses, and I agree that some actually can not, but the rate in which people seem to know better for others seems to indicate that the majority think most can not see past their noses). I don't understand why you have this perception that there is this rate of people that seem to know better than others. Frankly, I see alot of advice given to the boards. Lot of different perspectives on a specific narrowly expressed perspective of one person to a multi-perspective issue. Sometimes the advise is good... sometimes it's stupid... but actually that is a personal subjective opinion of what advise is good and what is bad. Interestingly.. what is percieve as good or bad can change dramatically when new information is gained on the narrow expressed perspective. It has not be my experience to see any great rate of "I know better than you for You" on these boards. But, I have seen lots of "I know better than you for Myself"... I don't recall having any ever try the I know better than you on You. I don't recall that ever happening with myself or my girls. When it does occur to a person.. well they just might of came across an idiot... BUT, when it occurs to an individual often. When this attitude/perspective is something a person experiences from various individuals. Well personally, I think that says more of the person than those various people stating "I know better than you For You" quote: I would wonder then, for all those who say if a dominant reads his submissive's email it is not a good relationship, or if a dominant manages her money, etc., then he is a micromanager and insecure....are they right? And can she just not see beyond her nose and recognize the bad situation she is in? The point of my OP is that the majoirity seems to think just that, which is different than I think - that the dominant knows what is best for her and manages her accordingly. I find it interesting you have this perspective. For I don't share that perspective at all. Maybe your perspective is accurate.. Maybe it's not. But what is interesting.. you are have it.. and I do not. I manage the money.. I manage alot of things for my girls and I suppose some would call this micro-managing. If there is this majority... I don't see it.. because.... It is not of concern to me. I am not insecure or doubt what I do. A majority could have negative view of what I do... but really.. I don't care.. I am not listening to them.. I am listening to myself and those that are significant to me. That is the only majority that matters.

marieToo -> RE: I know better than your Master does (4/22/2007 8:07:25 AM)
Well, now that I've got Ron buried under the porch, I can respond to the OP..... I think alot of what we see and what we probably all have done at one time or another is really the result of being behind a computer screen. In most cases we don't see, nor will we ever know the person to whom we are dishing out "advice". It's easy to stroll along, leave an uppity, holier-than-thou type of statement and move on with our day. I have done this myself too. I tend to think in most cases, people don't even recognize this behavior in themselves. I have at times gone back and read some of what I have written months earlier and seen a rough-around-the-edges type of attitude--I see a time where I could have been kinder or gentler in my delivery. I know I would not want to be approached in an abrasive manner when someone disagrees with me, therefore, I am inclined to think that I should soften my edges a bit too. From the other side of the coin, I have noticed that I am always more responsive to those who disagree or comment in a respectful and sensitive manner than to those who carelessly throw out cold and callous words because it doesn't matter how some stranger is affected by it. That seems uncaring in my eyes. It is very easy for me to tell the difference between those who actually want to reach mutual understanding and those who simply want to be argumentative in order to bolster their own validation or ego. Because of this, I do try to be more mindful of the way I am received and often I do alter my wording or think twice about how I convey something so as not to hurt or offend. I am not always successful, I'm sure, but in the very least, I think it is the better attitude choice than the ol' "hey I dont care about you or know you therefore, I can be just as abrasive as I want, because you don't matter to me" approach. Having said that, there are times when people really put it out there and ask for advice on some very personal issues. It is very hard to offer advice or an opinion without making a "judgement" or assessment based on the info given. Yes, there are two sides, but there is no reason that we can't take the OP's side as a hypothetical, if nothing else, and pass comment on it. It takes an open mind and alot of effort to stop, slow down and consider all the possibilities before commenting, though it's probably a good idea to do so; I personally suck at this, but I think Im getting better. lol. Great topic. Great reminder. :)

ownedgirlie -> RE: I know better than your Master does (4/22/2007 8:56:59 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: KnightofMists yes... I undersood you post rather clearly... Quoting what in the first paragraph is directed towards what I quoted.. and not the OP. Not everything that is posted on these boards is directly or even indirectly relating to the OP. Thank you for responding. Your first paragraph took such a turn from what has been constructively discussed in the three previous pages, so I was confused as to what prompted that. Hmm, an example of communication issues being cleared up - I like it. :) quote: Communications is a the responsibility of two... Speaker and Listener. Unless each do what is required to have Effective Communication.. there maybe communication... but it will not be effective. Over time... if communication is bad enough for long enough.. there will be no communication. I believe this to a degree, but I do believe the speaker has a greater influence on what is understood. One does not go to a lecture with the ability to partake in active communication, after all; but to listen and absorbe what is being said. If the lecturer does not communicate effectively and clearly, he/she is not understood. Then again, I am aware that some people do not understand a clear message no matter how well it is presented. So yes, there are two sides to communication issues. quote: I don't understand why you have this perception that there is this rate of people that seem to know better than others. Frankly, I see alot of advice given to the boards. Lot of different perspectives on a specific narrowly expressed perspective of one person to a multi-perspective issue. Sometimes the advise is good... sometimes it's stupid... but actually that is a personal subjective opinion of what advise is good and what is bad. I see a lot of good advice given, too. I also see of what you have referred to as "stupid" advice. How many times do we see everyone jump on the band-wagon of telling someone she should leave her Dominant, or that he must not care about her because he does XYZ, or people expressing opinions that are contrary to what the right thing is for someone else? My perception is that this happens more often than not. It is my subjective opinion and not poll-based. Your subjective opinion differs from mine, which I understand. I don't know why you don't understand why mine is different, but I accept that you do. quote: Interestingly.. what is percieve as good or bad can change dramatically when new information is gained on the narrow expressed perspective. Bingo! That is what I'm talking about to some degree. But I see it is a case of people forming opinions without gaining ample information. This is actually an example of what you were talking about above - where both parties are responsible for communication. When someone tells me something about their relationship (whether asking advice or just sharing something in passing), and it sounds askew to me, I'm likely going to ask about it, rather than form an opinion and judgment on it. I'm going to make sure I know the situation as well as I can before daring to express to another all the things I find negative about their situation. I understand the entire world is not like me (good thing!), but it is also my right to form my opinions about the opinions of others! And I have done so, and created this thread to discuss it. And I've been quite pleased with the way this discussion has evolved so far. quote: It has not be my experience to see any great rate of "I know better than you for You" on these boards. But, I have seen lots of "I know better than you for Myself"... I don't recall having any ever try the I know better than you on You. Again, it's a matter of perception, which we have both formed in our own subjective ways. This overall discussion is interesting to me as it indicates the various perceptions of forum members and how they differ. And I agree; you have not expressed a presumption to me to know my needs better than my Master, that I can recall. And I appreciate that! quote: I don't recall that ever happening with myself or my girls. When it does occur to a person.. well they just might of came across an idiot... BUT, when it occurs to an individual often. When this attitude/perspective is something a person experiences from various individuals. Well personally, I think that says more of the person than those various people stating "I know better than you For You" It happens indirectly quite often. We see people commenting on how "anyone who does such n such with their sub/slave is (insert big bad bully adjective here)." And some of those such n suches are the same things you and others talk about doing with your girls on these forums. Perhaps you do not see it because, as you have later indicated, it is not a concern to you. When something like this occurs to an individual often, it could very well be as you suggest, that the person either doesn't see the problem, or doesn't see how he/she is representing a situation. The latter is evidence of what I originally suggested - that the majority of responsibility for understanding falls on the communicator. There is a third option, however, which is when many people do understand, yet the marjority still does not, perhaps it is a phenomenum that is rarely experienced and falls outside what people are capable of understanding. Take the "cum on command" debate as just an example. There are those who actually experience this, and there are those who do not believe that can ever exist. And what then, when someone espouses that not only can it not exist, but those who try to train their slaves to it are setting them up for failure, and therefore big mean bullies? (I say this just an example and not to spark a debate on this thread about that particular topic). quote: I find it interesting you have this perspective. For I don't share that perspective at all. Maybe your perspective is accurate.. Maybe it's not. But what is interesting.. you are have it.. and I do not. I manage the money.. I manage alot of things for my girls and I suppose some would call this micro-managing. If there is this majority... I don't see it.. because.... It is not of concern to me. I am not insecure or doubt what I do. A majority could have negative view of what I do... but really.. I don't care.. I am not listening to them.. I am listening to myself and those that are significant to me. That is the only majority that matters. I can fully appreciate and understand where you are coming from here. I think where we differ is that I tend to read everyone's posts, and not just those of the people who matter to me, and that may be why I have a different perception. It is not that I listen or take to heart what everyone says. It is only that, as stated in my OP, it is a pet peeve of mine when people presume what they do about someone else's relationship and speak on it with authority. It's been an irk of mine for years, actually. I only now decided to bring it up for discussion. I appreciate the time you took to share your comments; thank you.

thetammyjo -> RE: I know better than your Master does (4/23/2007 7:12:33 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aswad quote: ORIGINAL: thetammyjo I don't think re-evaluating means that things ends. It means taking an objective and fresh look at things. I think you read more into what I mean when I use the term re-evaluate. Ah. Yes, I did. Sorry about that. quote: In fact I think its a very good thing to be consistantly re-evaluating things, being aware of everything that is going on and trying to stay on top of why things happen. Otherwise things can hit you out of the blue and our instant reactions may not be the most healthy actions. I agree. Although it is easy to get caught up in a situation, and not be able to take the neccessary step(s) back. I learned the hard way, and it cost me years. When we don't step back and "take things in" anew, we don't get a different perspective. I must say I liked agirl's comment about writing a draft and reading it the next day. That can help a lot sometimes. I try to do that if I'm going to write something long (by my standards). When you read things without the original frame of mind as context, you're getting pretty close to how someone else would read it. If only my students could move from intellectual awareness of this fact into practical use. One more week, here, only one more week. Anyway, not that this is the only way to do this, but needing to put some space between what is happening and assessment of it is the main reason that my entire household goes to therapy about once every two months. We're learned a lot of techniques to step back and listen to each other but I find it really helpful to have an objective set of ears and an extra brain. Especially now when the mundane stuff starts to wear on me and I find myself snapping at home. I may be a dom but I'm not a perfect one so I do things I don't think are best when that mundane crap builds up.

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