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RE: Are you selective in your stance on "Bans"? - 4/29/2007 7:30:58 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		 
quote:

I did bring up smoking to show how a ban can come into place so easily, and I got argument after argument about how "this is different". 

 
There is no ban on smoking, there is just regulation about where one can smoke. Just like there is no ban on 99.9 percent of porn, there is just regulation about where one can buy it and giving it to minors. There is no ban on alcohol, there is just regulation about drinking and driving and public intoxication, and regulating where one can drink... there is a difference between regulating it and banning it. Banning smoking would mean that you could not buy cigarettes.

quote:

So I addressed the topic from a different standpoint by bringing up "Abortion" as a legal option and how easily it could also end up being banned.


 
Abortion is regulated, you cannot have an abortion on the sidewalk for example.

Now I do not know if you can see the difference between regulation and banning, but there is a difference.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to GoddessDustyGold)
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RE: Are you selective in your stance on "Bans"? - 4/29/2007 7:37:34 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kitbaloo


This whole rant is pretty much ignoring a single important fact. don't want to get pregnant? 1. use birth control    or  2. keep your legs closed.  it is that damned simple.   it is not and i repeat NOT the baby's fault that you were irresponsible enough to spread your legs without the use of birth control in the first place.


This view is so Pat Robertson... I when I have heard this I think of an angry god that punishes people for their sins by inflicting them with babies.

I am currently reading this book about religious nutjobs in American called American Theocracy. It talks about reconstructionist Christians that are in most Christian fundie organizations, like Southern Baptist Convention... these people want to make birth control illegal because to them that is murder. Now I know this thread is not about abortion, but statements like the ones above show me how little foresight some people have in regard to their own reproductive rights....

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

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RE: Are you selective in your stance on "Bans"? - 4/29/2007 9:59:02 AM   
kitbaloo


Posts: 59
Joined: 3/19/2007
Status: offline 		if you kept your legs closed or used birth control there wouldn't be a baby to abort to be arguing over in the first place. use your head.  it's called common sense.

_____________________________

A society will be judged on the basis of how it treats its weakest members; and among the most vulnerable are surely the unborn and the dying.

~ Pope John Paul II ~


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RE: Are you selective in your stance on "Bans"? - 4/29/2007 10:04:43 AM   
blackwinterbyrd


Posts: 112
Joined: 9/4/2006
Status: offline 		*sigh*

Birth control can fail, and is not actually available to everyone.  Minors, for example.

Sex is a human right.  Everybody deserves to have sex if they want it, or not to if they don't.  "Slut." is not an argument against abortion.

Also, people make mistakes.

Consent to sex is not consent to parenting.  Sorry to hijack, but it really is that simple.  Common sense even.

(in reply to kitbaloo)
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RE: Are you selective in your stance on "Bans"? - 4/29/2007 10:08:59 AM   
KatyLied


Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline
quote:

Common sense even.


Common sense took leave of this thread a long time ago.


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RE: Are you selective in your stance on "Bans"? - 4/29/2007 10:18:44 AM   
kitbaloo


Posts: 59
Joined: 3/19/2007
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quote:

Birth control can fail, and is not actually available to everyone.  Minors, for example.


1. Don't need to use just one, can combine multiple.  The rate of birth control failing is extremely low.
2. Minors can get birth control, it's called a gynecologist.  Mothers should introduce their daughters to those upon puberty anyways.  Minors shouldn't be having sex in the first place, however, those that just have to do it to be "popular" or "cool" then they should at least use a little common sense (though it's asking a lot of adults .. obviously going by this thread) and discuss birth control options with their parents (who should have had "the talk" with them in the first place about what responsibilities go along with sex).  I was fifteen when I first was prescribed birth control by a gynecologist and even was able to get ahold of (OMG) condoms.   If a 12 year old can procure themselves a bottle of beer (easily enough done nowadays) they can procure birth control.

quote:

Sex is a human right.  Everybody deserves to have sex if they want it, or not to if they don't.  "Slut." is not an argument against abortion.


Life is a human right.  That unborn baby is in fact a life and has just as much right to live as anyone else.  Nobody said anything about not having the right to have sex, but if you're responsible for spreading your legs, be responsible for the consequences if you don't have the common sense and maturity to use birth control.  That unborn baby didn't make the decision for you to spread your legs, that baby didn't have a say in the matter, so why punish the baby by killing it just cause you're an irresponsible twit?

quote:

Also, people make mistakes.


Their mistakes not the baby's.  Baby has no choice in the matter at all whatsoever, you make a mistake it's your mistake not the baby's mistake, don't take it out on an innocent life.

quote:

Consent to sex is not consent to parenting.  Sorry to hijack, but it really is that simple.  Common sense even.


Consent to sex is your consent, you have sex you're taking on the responsibilities that go along with it.  The innocent unborn wasn't given the choice, yet you think it's ok to murder that life just because you made a bad choice in having sex without protection.  Common sense:  Don't want to get pregnant, take the necessary precautions which are available to you to prevent the pregnancy in the first place.

_____________________________

A society will be judged on the basis of how it treats its weakest members; and among the most vulnerable are surely the unborn and the dying.

~ Pope John Paul II ~


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RE: Are you selective in your stance on "Bans"? - 4/29/2007 10:43:20 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kitbaloo

if you kept your legs closed or used birth control there wouldn't be a baby to abort to be arguing over in the first place. use your head.  it's called common sense.


Funny, it sounds as though you assume I have had an abortion with all this "you" stuff. As to why you are personalizing this debate is beyond me, but whatever works for you. (oh btw, I have not had an abortion).

I say whatever works for you! Keep YOUR legs shut, I like spreading mine

But keep your god out of my pussy

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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RE: Are you selective in your stance on "Bans"? - 4/29/2007 10:52:08 AM   
imthatacheyouhav


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Joined: 4/16/2007
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quote:

like Southern Baptist Convention... these people want to make birth control illegal because to them that is murder.

this is false...


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RE: Are you selective in your stance on "Bans"? - 4/29/2007 11:42:49 AM   
kitbaloo


Posts: 59
Joined: 3/19/2007
Status: offline
quote:

Funny, it sounds as though you assume I have had an abortion with all this "you" stuff. As to why you are personalizing this debate is beyond me, but whatever works for you. (oh btw, I have not had an abortion).


"you" being a general statement, not specifically saying you as an individual personally.

quote:

I say whatever works for you! Keep YOUR legs shut, I like spreading mine


Keeping your legs shut being one alternative, just saying if people are so worried about getting pregnant they should look at the alternatives of preventing the pregnancy in the first place.  Sex is just as much a responsibility as it's consequences if proper precautions aren't taken in order to prevent an unwanted pregnancy.

Again, don't want to get pregnant there are options that are quite available to preventing unwanted pregnancy such as birth control and abstinence.  Just because someone is too immature and irresponsible isn't the fault of an innocent unborn life, so why inflict the death penalty on the innocent?  That's just ignorance.

quote:

But keep your god out of my pussy


God has nothing to do with this, I might believe in God, however, I don't practice in organized religion.  Yes, I chose a quote made by a catholic religious figure on my signature, that doesn't mean I am in practice with catholicism or any other religion.  He just happened to say something that made sense.

If people want to be immature, ignorant, irresponsible..that's their problem, not the problem of an innocent unborn life.  That's me talking not some God who may or may not exist.   Yes, people have rights..that includes the right to my opinions.  My opinion is that everyone has the right to life and that includes an unborn life.  Did that unborn life ask to be conceived? What choices did that unborn life have?  None.  World today are ignorant, immature, irresponsible, greedy, self-centered individuals whom think only of themselves and not a single thought given to anyone else around or inside them.

What if that unborn child was you?  Put yourself in the shoes of that innocent unborn.  Wouldn't you want the fair chance at life that your mother had been given when her mother conceived her?

Opinions are like assholes, everybody has one.

_____________________________

A society will be judged on the basis of how it treats its weakest members; and among the most vulnerable are surely the unborn and the dying.

~ Pope John Paul II ~


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RE: Are you selective in your stance on "Bans"? - 4/29/2007 12:18:14 PM   
caitlyn


Posts: 3473
Joined: 12/22/2004
Status: offline 		You may find this shocking, but most people that get themselves in trouble, don't have a loving mother to take them to a gynecologist. Life on the street is hard ... just so you know. People do immature things, just to fit in. Fucking immature kids.

(in reply to kitbaloo)
Profile   Post #: 170
RE: Are you selective in your stance on "Bans"? - 4/29/2007 2:04:58 PM   
kitbaloo


Posts: 59
Joined: 3/19/2007
Status: offline 		DTA Office (welfare), WIC Office, also the many free clinics that are around have baskets full of condoms on the receptionist desk free for the taking.   I live in a low income neighborhood, hung around with the kids from low income neighborhoods as a kid.. know how it goes, plenty of resources for anyone to find help if they got off their keisters to look.

_____________________________

A society will be judged on the basis of how it treats its weakest members; and among the most vulnerable are surely the unborn and the dying.

~ Pope John Paul II ~


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Profile   Post #: 171
RE: Are you selective in your stance on "Bans"? - 4/29/2007 9:32:28 PM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied
Common sense took leave of this thread a long time ago.


Well yes it really did....but that is kinda what I was hoping would happen in this thread....in an odd kind of way. I wanted to see if people who would normally be opposed to bans would find that their stance could be swayed if what was proposed to be banned was something they felt passionately about. I would say that the results have shown that people would be more likely to be in support of banning something they are personally strongly opposed to.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to KatyLied)
Profile   Post #: 172
RE: Are you selective in your stance on "Bans"? - 4/29/2007 9:36:11 PM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
But keep your god out of my pussy


julia, I gotta tell you....this quote made my day....hell it made my whole weekend. I nearly busted a gut laughing when I read that. I'm thinking bumper stickers and t-shirts.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 173
RE: Are you selective in your stance on "Bans"? - 4/29/2007 9:41:29 PM   
caitlyn


Posts: 3473
Joined: 12/22/2004
Status: offline 		After reading your post, then reading your signature line, I'm just going to assume you're joking. 

(in reply to kitbaloo)
Profile   Post #: 174
RE: Are you selective in your stance on "Bans"? - 4/29/2007 9:41:56 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: imthatacheyouhav

quote:

like Southern Baptist Convention... these people want to make birth control illegal because to them that is murder.

this is false...



I will provide a reference for my assertion that a group called Reconstructionist Christians belong to many religious groups, one of which is the Southern Baptist Convention... my source is Kevin Phillips in American Theocracy. I always try to source my assertions.. if you have some other source that contradicts there being Christian Reconstructionists that are in that organization also, please produce it

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to imthatacheyouhav)
Profile   Post #: 175
RE: Are you selective in your stance on "Bans"? - 4/29/2007 9:46:08 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
But keep your god out of my pussy


julia, I gotta tell you....this quote made my day....hell it made my whole weekend. I nearly busted a gut laughing when I read that. I'm thinking bumper stickers and t-shirts.


I am glad I posted it before I thought better of it, if it made you laugh it was worth while...

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 176
RE: Are you selective in your stance on "Bans"? - 4/29/2007 10:14:35 PM   
deadbluebird


Posts: 265
Joined: 1/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kitbaloo

so why punish the baby by killing it just cause you're an irresponsible twit?



Why is it punishment? either the "baby" goes to heaven, becomes born again, or nothingness. how are any of those situations punishment? i think punishment would be letting it come onto a live with a biological mother who was not ready for it. likely to be raised in a "broken home" or, letting it to go strangers, possiabily that will love them, and care for them, and raise them as their own. to at some point realize they were given up, raised by people who were not biological parents.

(in reply to kitbaloo)
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RE: Are you selective in your stance on "Bans"? - 4/30/2007 12:06:35 AM   
PenetratingGaze


Posts: 53
Joined: 10/18/2006
Status: offline 		Some bans and or regulations can be good things. However, any of them can be taken too far. That is why we have a representative democracy and freedom of speech. At this though I am not going to start on abortion, being adopted because I was given up by unwed parents, my views are a little biased towards life. Yes, I know, I'm a basterd, thanks for figuring that one out. So was William the Conquerer and Gerald R. Ford. Whoopdie friggin doo.

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RE: Are you selective in your stance on "Bans"? - 4/30/2007 3:23:51 AM   
kitbaloo


Posts: 59
Joined: 3/19/2007
Status: offline
quote:

i think punishment would be letting it come onto a live with a biological mother who was not ready for it.


refer to my previous posts regarding this particular statement. 

Number of women ages 15-44 with impaired ability to have children: 6.1 million
Number of married couples that are infertile: 2.1 million
 
adoption.  nobody said the biological mother had to raise it, but the baby deserves their right to life, and those who can't have children deserve the right to adopt the baby they couldn't otherwise have.

_____________________________

A society will be judged on the basis of how it treats its weakest members; and among the most vulnerable are surely the unborn and the dying.

~ Pope John Paul II ~


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Profile   Post #: 179
RE: Are you selective in your stance on "Bans"? - 4/30/2007 6:58:16 AM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline 		So kit  why are there chilfren in foster homes wh await to be adopted...If you are going to say that is abortion is horrible, which it is, you better have a plan to take care  of these unwanted and all too often damaged children.

It's one thing to continue posting your point....We all understand you don't approve of abortion...We get it.

Tomorrow if our wonderful government banned automobiles due to their emmissions don't you think it would be wise to have already built a huge public transit system to get the people to where they need to go.

We all understand YOU DON'T APPROVE OFABORTION....WHAT IS YOUR PLAN TO TAKE CARE OF ALL OF THESE SOON TO BE UNCARED FOR BORN AMERICAN CHILDREN....ALSO WHO IS GOING TO PAY FOR ALL OF THE CHILDREN BORN SUFFERING FROM AN UNCARING PARENTS ABUSE OF ALCOHOL OR DRUGS?.....BECAUSE ADOPTION IS NOT WORKING.

< Message edited by domiguy -- 4/30/2007 7:13:09 AM >

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