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The Difference Between a Bottom and a Sub - 4/24/2007 4:39:06 AM

cybersport

Posts: 49
Joined: 5/23/2004
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Are there women out there who understand the difference between being a Domme and being a Top? I have frequently run into the situation where women assume that becasue I enjoy being tied up that I Must be a sub, when that is not the case..

I am a bondage bottom, but it seems a lot of people don't understand the difference between the two.... As a result, I have been accused of "Not being submissive enough" or "Topping from the bottom."

Has this been an issue for anyone else?

Post #: 1

RE: The Difference Between a Bottom and a Sub - 4/24/2007 4:48:00 AM

DiurnalVampire

Posts: 8125
Joined: 1/19/2006
From: Nashville, TN
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It all depends on how you present yourself when you begin talking to these women, and what they are looking for from you. If they understand that you are a bottom, and not a sub, then there would be a difference. Most people who identify as Domme (I say most since I know it does not apply to all) are looking for someone else who identifies as sub and who plays that role the way they want it. If you dont tell them that you are a bondage bottom, then it is not really much of a stretch to assume you are submissive becasue you like being tied up. And for some of us, there IS no difference between being a Top and being a Domme.
Maybe the ones who are giving you static for not being sub enough or topping from the bottom havent been properly informed. No, you are NOT sub enough, because you are not actually sub at all.

Just a thought.
DV

_____________________________

I will be your Dominate if you will be my submit - Fox

Snarko Ergo Sum
If you cannot change your mind, how are you so sure you still have one? -proverb

*Owner of Fox - collared 10/13/07*
VampiresLair

(in reply to cybersport)

Post #: 2

RE: The Difference Between a Bottom and a Sub - 4/24/2007 5:08:35 AM

cybersport

Posts: 49
Joined: 5/23/2004
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I guess what I am is a fettishist. But there don't seem to be many places to go to find someone who wants to deal with a rope fettish.

I try to be very up front about the fact that I'm not submissive. When I approach it this way, most women respect my honesty; but then decide that I'm not agood fit for them...

Still, I'd rather be honest about it

(in reply to DiurnalVampire)

Post #: 3

RE: The Difference Between a Bottom and a Sub - 4/24/2007 5:53:56 AM

MsSonnetMarwood

Posts: 1898
Joined: 2/10/2005
From: Eastern Shore, Maryland
Status: offline

Because everyone will nitpick about what a sub is vs. a bottom, let me throw in my definitions.   A "bottom" is more motivated by certain types of play and fetishes; i.e. they are more "bedroom oriented".   A submissive is more motivated by pleasing the Dominant overall than by play and it doesn't have much to do with the bedroom (not to say they don't enjoy play and/or have fetishes).

The one thing I would recommend is that, even as a bottom, you do get that just showing up isn't enough - there are plenty of people out there that just want to be played with, whether they identify themselves as a slave, a sub, or a bottom.   Even though you don't identify as being submissive, try to think "what's in it for her" and "what will she get out of it" - if you don't know, then chances are, they're not going to see why they should play with you either.   Be willing to do some things that they enjoy, and be willing to do things after play like offer a massage, to get her a drink, to help her relax after she's worked you over. Tidy up after the scene, including untangling and winding up the rope, putting away the toys neatly, etc. You don't have to be a submissive to do this - however, you do need to balance it out so it doesn't come across as "her doing all the work while you sit back and enjoy".

And if she's more inclined to be Dominant than a service top...you giving her instructions while you play isn't going to help the situation.

Specifically with rope bondage - while it's something I enjoy, it can be very time consuming and tedious if that's *all* that's going on in the scene, every time.

< Message edited by MsSonnetMarwood -- 4/24/2007 5:55:30 AM >

_____________________________

~Ms. Sonnet Marwood~

Deja Moo: The feeling you've heard this bull somewhere before.

(in reply to cybersport)

Post #: 4

RE: The Difference Between a Bottom and a Sub - 4/24/2007 5:56:51 AM

earthycouple

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Joined: 2/19/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: cybersport

I guess what I am is a fettishist. But there don't seem to be many places to go to find someone who wants to deal with a rope fettish.

I try to be very up front about the fact that I'm not submissive. When I approach it this way, most women respect my honesty; but then decide that I'm not agood fit for them...

Still, I'd rather be honest about it

Not to hijack the thread....but I am a huge fan of those who enjoy rope. I am very good with it. *S*
D~

(in reply to cybersport)

Post #: 5

RE: The Difference Between a Bottom and a Sub - 4/24/2007 6:00:29 AM

earthycouple

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Sub and bottom, Top and Dominant. VERY different roles. I define a top as someone who takes a dominant "role" for a very specific purpose and a bottom as someone who takes a submissive "role" for a very specific purpose. These purposes can be anything from demo's, learning something new, to fulfilling a specific fetish. But when it's over it's over.

A dominant and a submissive are not played roles or roles taken for a specific purpose. It is who we are inside and out, even if during the course of our day we don't always show that. *Lawyers who are submissive are my best example*. I am a dominant who enjoys bottoming on occassion.

D~

(in reply to earthycouple)

Post #: 6

RE: The Difference Between a Bottom and a Sub - 4/24/2007 6:05:51 AM

cybersport

Posts: 49
Joined: 5/23/2004
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I like your definitions...

I admit that for a long time it was difficult to focus on "What was in it for her," I think as I've gotten older though, I've gotten much better in that area, in play situations and in the world at large, thank in large part to a kind, caring lady who taught me to be comfortable with myself and who I am...

My time with her was a life-altering experience

quote:

MsSonnetMarwood

(in reply to cybersport)

Post #: 7

RE: The Difference Between a Bottom and a Sub - 4/24/2007 6:12:22 AM

MsCfromMelbourne

Posts: 777
Joined: 2/15/2007
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These labels are not very helpful in real life because they mean different things to different people

Here in Australia a "bottom" would be someone more into physical sensation play (eg masochism) while a "submissive" would be more into psychological play (being controlled). In a nutshell at play parties, playful bottoms have all the fun; submissives stand around holding handbags....so who wouldn't prefer to be a bottom!!

However, I suggest that you tell the Domme what you mean by "not a submissive". You might be mis-labelling yourself. You don't have to be a doormat to be a submissive. You might find the Mistress is looking for a bright, fun and considerate guy who enjoys pleasing his woman......including by submitting to being tied up. You might both be getting caught up in labels and missing how much you have in common (besides loving ropework)

< Message edited by MsCfromMelbourne -- 4/24/2007 6:15:05 AM >

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(in reply to earthycouple)

Post #: 8

RE: The Difference Between a Bottom and a Sub - 4/24/2007 6:42:35 AM

MariaB

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Joined: 4/3/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MsCfromMelbourne

These labels are not very helpful in real life because they mean different things to different people

Here in Australia a "bottom" would be someone more into physical sensation play (eg masochism) while a "submissive" would be more into psychological play (being controlled). In a nutshell at play parties, playful bottoms have all the fun; submissives stand around holding handbags....so who wouldn't prefer to be a bottom!!

Yep, same in the UK!

(in reply to MsCfromMelbourne)

Post #: 9

RE: The Difference Between a Bottom and a Sub - 4/24/2007 7:00:20 AM

thetammyjo

Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: cybersport

Are there women out there who understand the difference between being a Domme and being a Top? I have frequently run into the situation where women assume that becasue I enjoy being tied up that I Must be a sub, when that is not the case..

I am a bondage bottom, but it seems a lot of people don't understand the difference between the two.... As a result, I have been accused of "Not being submissive enough" or "Topping from the bottom."

Has this been an issue for anyone else?

The biggest problem on this site I think is the lack of titles or identities you can choose from when setting up a profile.

If you are interested in a particular activity, like bondage, do not advertize yourself as anything other than a bondage bottom. If someone contacts you who wants more, say "no thanks" and move on. If someone talks to you for while and seems to know the difference between bottom and sub, between bondage and the other things in BDSM, say "It was nice getting to know you but we want different things" and move on.

And if someone gets into a scene with you and tries to change the rules and demands submission from you, use your safeword. Hopefully that will be respected. Once you're ready to leave say "thanks but we aren't looking for the same things" and go to an ice cream palor/coffee shop/for a run (whatever will help you work through the tension of that moment) and then move on to another person.

Also if you are the one approaching, do not approach a dom or a mistress and expect to only get a top. Look for someone who identifies as a top, in your case, the best match would be someone who identifies as a bondage top.

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to cybersport)

Post #: 10

RE: The Difference Between a Bottom and a Sub - 4/24/2007 7:05:19 AM

cybersport

Posts: 49
Joined: 5/23/2004
Status: offline

Thanks TammyJo,

I wish it were possible to classify myself as a bondage bottom on this site. I think I've made it pretty clear in my profile what I'm looking for. That probably excludes some people, but I'd rather be up front about it..

When I contact someone, it's usually tough to tell if her interests run toward bondage or not.
Unfortunately there aren't a lot of bondage tops in this area that I'm aware of.

(in reply to thetammyjo)

Post #: 11

RE: The Difference Between a Bottom and a Sub - 4/24/2007 7:14:14 AM

thetammyjo

Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: cybersport

Thanks TammyJo,

I wish it were possible to classify myself as a bondage bottom on this site. I think I've made it pretty clear in my profile what I'm looking for. That probably excludes some people, but I'd rather be up front about it..

When I contact someone, it's usually tough to tell if her interests run toward bondage or not.
Unfortunately there aren't a lot of bondage tops in this area that I'm aware of.

What you might try is going to play parties, organization meetings, and conventions. At a play party (once you get known a bit in the community) you can find someone to do X activity with more easily than you can find a future relationship. I've had people approach at play parties saying "I saw that flogging that you did, very nice. Would you care to do that with me?" or whatever activity it was.

Could you handle some minor Ds if it were part of a bondage scene? If you can, that might wider your pool of potentials even more. You might also consider just introducting some bondage into a vanilla relationship though you may need to switch a bit, do something for your partner in return for bondage.

You might also ask yourself how important the gender or sex of your top is to you. For exmample, Fox, my slave, is a switch and he is an amazing bondage top who knows a variety of styles. Now he also happens to be bi so that might be why the sex or gender of his partner isn't so important but he doesn't have sex or even kiss those he tops -- he just tops.

In other words see where you can make compromises that are comfortable for you. You shouldn't do things that are limits for you but if you can expand into the neutral areas of your interests, you may find more partners.

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to cybersport)

Post #: 12

RE: The Difference Between a Bottom and a Sub - 4/24/2007 8:40:09 AM

cybersport

Posts: 49
Joined: 5/23/2004
Status: offline

Hi TammyJo,

It's important to me, in fact, a necessity, that my Top partner be female, although she would not necessarily have to be a hetrosexual female.

Some light D/s would be okay if we were comfortable with each other and if we were fully clear about limits ahead of time. I guess the most important aspect is feeling comfortable with Ms. X as a person as well as a bondage partner....I have met Tops who were very good with rope and e were in tune that way, but the personal chemistry wasn't right for whatever reason....

I guess that's the way it is in the vanilla world too.

(in reply to thetammyjo)

Post #: 13

RE: The Difference Between a Bottom and a Sub - 4/24/2007 8:54:42 AM

LadyeSaige

Posts: 18
Joined: 4/19/2007
Status: offline

Although I'm Dominant, I married a bottom - I have a slave on the side (with husband's knowledge and blessing of course). My husband and I had a lot of chemistry otherwise, and he was amenable to me seeing another to get needs met that he didn't fulfill.

So it all works out - you just have to find the right people and be flexible so everyone's happy.

_____________________________

Ladye Saige

I can sometimes be found on AIM and Yahoo under the same name

(in reply to cybersport)

Post #: 14

RE: The Difference Between a Bottom and a Sub - 4/24/2007 9:07:58 AM

cybersport

Posts: 49
Joined: 5/23/2004
Status: offline

It seems that when I go to a much (which I haven't done for some time) there seem to be a lot more bottom or sub guys that are looking for Top women than the other way around.

You make a good point; it's important to be a good fit outside the bedroom IMHO... And a lot of women hestitate to make teh first move, even in this day and age... :)

(in reply to LadyeSaige)

Post #: 15

RE: The Difference Between a Bottom and a Sub - 4/24/2007 9:22:12 AM

imthatacheyouhav

Posts: 1259
Joined: 4/16/2007
Status: offline

i must be a submissive bottom ....i like the masochistic asspect of the lifestyle, and the giving up of control, to the point that i do not have a safe word.

(in reply to cybersport)

Post #: 16

RE: The Difference Between a Bottom and a Sub - 4/24/2007 9:41:10 AM

cybersport

Posts: 49
Joined: 5/23/2004
Status: offline

In the rare instances when an opportunity arises, I will discus safety issues with my partner. Basically she will understand that if I tell her a knot is too tight that she should loosen it... I really have never had a problem in that area....Maybe once, years go..

I wonder how many women are out there who would enjoy tying a guy but have never had the chance to do so..

(in reply to imthatacheyouhav)

Post #: 17

RE: The Difference Between a Bottom and a Sub - 4/24/2007 10:43:42 AM

Dusty15

Posts: 50
Joined: 12/23/2005
Status: offline

I know we are talking about bottoms and subs but I would like to add this it is something I wrote for another Mistress
Signs that separate slave, submissive, and bottom. In doing this assignment it made me do a lot of thinking and here is what I came up with as far as signs that separate a slave from a submissive and a submissive from a bottom. It comes down to what type of relationship are you looking for. The bottom is just there to play. That person I believe is thinking about only of them selves. A bottom is being more self centered. They are takers. Then when you look at the submissive they what to serve. How much they want to serve is up to each person in how they have negotiated coming into the relationship. Now when it comes to the slave they are willing to turn everything over According to Kim from Iron Rose "Slaves do more servitude in my ownership. Interestingly enough, I am also more likely to bestow sexual favors upon a slave versus a submissive. Slaves are expected to take care of the house without compliment or notice." This is something that I either read or heard. Bottom is like when you first meet someone and you are trying to get to know them. Submissive would be like when you are dating someone and the slave would be marriage. Now as for me right now I would consider my self a submissive who loves to serve. I am a very service oriented type of person. The more I serve the happier I am. To see the look on the person face after I get done with the service that I was ask to do is a high within it self. Then when I do get a chance to play it is like icing on the cake. Last thought as you go from bottom to slave trust plays an very important ro

(in reply to cybersport)

Post #: 18

RE: The Difference Between a Bottom and a Sub - 4/24/2007 11:01:19 AM

TigressFL

Posts: 239
Joined: 6/8/2006
Status: offline

I have not read all the responses at this time, however, I separate these very clearly...

Bottom - A bottom is someone the enjoys having various "sensations" inflicted upon he or she. There is no "Submission". There is no "Service". The person dictates what can and cannot be done and there is no "sucking it up" to please the person that is "inflicting". A dominant can certainly "bottom" and a sub/slave can certainly Top. Many people have serious issues grasping that you do not have to be a submissive to enjoy any type of "sensation" play. Why should they have all the fun any way? Last time I check a dominant could do anything they damn well pleased lol It is not "what" is done, it is "how" it is done. I have "Topped" a few male dominants in my time and it had nothing to do with "submission". I did not treat them like my property during the scene... it is just two kinky people having fun!!!

Submissive - A. I will treat them and speak to them as if I own them in the scene. B. They will suck it up and endure things they do not really like (as negotiated) because they want to "please me". They will "serve" me outside the scene for the same reason unless otherwise discussed due to being owned,etc.. As you see there is a big difference.

Tigress~FL

(in reply to cybersport)

Post #: 19

RE: The Difference Between a Bottom and a Sub - 4/24/2007 11:29:58 AM

DominaSmartass

Posts: 961
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: This month? Maryland
Status: offline

I have often complained about the limited identification choices here. It's funny that they give sub AND slave as an option but not dom AND master. And not top or bottom at all. Anyone else want to petition them to add more choices? Everyone here has given great advice though. Look for play partners, not owners.

_____________________________

“These S&M people ... they are bossy! There’s also a creepy connection between leather sex, ‘Star Trek’ and the Renaissance Faire.”

- Comedian Margaret Cho

(in reply to TigressFL)

Post #: 20

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