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Re: Advice - what constitutes quality advice to you? - 4/25/2007 2:41:53 AM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		This is a question about the nature of getting, and giving - Effective advice, and what motivates people to take it, as well as give it.
 
What are circumstances in which you personally will tend to be receptive to advice?
 
Under what circumstances do you give advice to someone else?

*(Just to clarify, I of course don't consider this Message Board to be a realm of Unsolicited advice. I figure anyone who posts a question on it seeking advice about a personal matter, is obviously doing just that).
 
I appreciate all comments and replies.

I've noticed when it comes to taking advice, that sometimes more than others, I can revel in hearing or reading some snippet or phrase that I think might be applicable to my life, and after considering how it might fit, and I'll try to work it in somehow.

Then again, sometimes I may just pass it by,  thinking it doesn't apply in my case, or it will only seemingly touch me superficially.

Sometimes, I am very self-motivated, and seek out advice about ways to change a particular facet of my life, or some personal quality I want to enlarge or restrict, for spiritual and-or practical reasons.

As far as *Unsolicited Advice, (or in some cases, even advice that has been solicited) I tend to look at possible motives of the source.

I will tend to categorize the source as:

1. Basically unselfish, and a genuine attempt to be helpful
*I need to feel advice personally touches me. I need to feel heard, listened to and validated by it somehow, for it to "sink in". 

OR

2. Self-seeking, and giving advice for personal gain, more than not.
*If I think it's "all about them", that's okay, and on some level expected at times, I guess.
I will factor that into deciding how deeply I consider it.

*How well someone really knows me also can matter - but not always.

Because I've heard some pretty apt snippets of advice from people I barely know (or don't know at all), that I can visualize as applicable to my life in some fashion, regardless of whether I sought it from them or not.
I read books and magazines, I read this Message Board, I talk to neighbors and friends, etc. 

In those instances, of course, I am usually  in a head-space where I am self-motivated anyway, or the source has somehow enthused me about the possibility of taking the advice.

On some level, I consider unsolicited advice about deeply personal matters to be invasive, and I normally only give it if it has been solicited. 

There have been occasions where this hasn't been true (like my volunteer work w/abused and neglected UMs, for instance, and also occasionally w/some of their "caregivers") but - basically with grown adults, I don't consider it my place to try to run anyone else's life (the extreme extenuating circumstance, like: "You're going to run your car into that tree up ahead", aside).

Because it seems like determining valid personal counsel is someone's:

1) Own bailiwick to begin with - I believe we are all on our own path.
Second-guessing this somehow smacks of possessing a little "too much ego" - to me.

2) At times, someone I know well can seem to consider me to be an inspirational force for a particular reason - but I don't seek to become one, really. I aslo like to examine whether or not there are underlying factors in play if they re seeking it out.
If someone is in dire emotional straits, I'll try to help, but even then, I will temper advice with phrases like: "It's your decision..." or "If I were you, which of course I'm not", etc.   

*On the other hand, there are times when if I really trust someone, and feel inspired by them, then I don't mind taking their unsolicited advice - because I've evaluated their wisdom as something I find motivating.

Just wondering what others think about getting, and giving, Effective advice.
 
What makes advice particulary effective for you, if you receive it?
Circumstances?
Being self-motivated to begin with? 


And - Why do you give someone else advice, when and if you do?

- Susan  

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 4/25/2007 3:41:25 AM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson
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RE: Re: Advice - what constitutes quality advice to you? - 4/25/2007 3:10:39 AM   
WhiplashSmile


Posts: 1472
Joined: 6/8/2004
Status: offline 		In terms of advice, I enjoy hearing things that make me see things in a different light.  I may not ways want to hear it, but it's what I need to hear.

I tend to trust advice when I feel the person is not telling me what I want to hear.  I also have to question the motivations behind the advice.  Some people love to give advice for manipulation of a situation.

I tend to value advice when the person has reality and truth in mind.  At times the advice might not be in my own best interests but anothers.  All depends upon the situation I'm faced with.  The world does not revolve me.  Sure everybody has a world the revolves around themselves or others.  Think that's a lot to do with D/s in general.  However D/s does not apply to every relationship, friendship or interaction with others.   At times it's D/D, at times it's D/s.. however the amount of powerExchanges vary in any relationship as well as terms.

At times we need to hear the honest truth from those around us.   Honesty is something to value.  Even if the people giving advice don't always do a good job, I can never fault somebody for having giving honest advice.   In the end it's up to ourselves to take it all in, process it and make a choice.

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RE: Re: Advice - what constitutes quality advice to you? - 4/25/2007 3:22:03 AM   
SusanofO


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quote:

ORIGINAL: WhiplashSmile

The amount of powerExchanges vary in any relationship as well as terms.

Even if the people giving advice don't always do a good job, I can never fault somebody for having giving honest advice.   In the end it's up to ourselves to take it all in, process it and make a choice.
 

I really liked this part, especially, and appreciated the entire reply.

- Susan

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

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RE: Re: Advice - what constitutes quality advice to you? - 4/25/2007 3:26:47 AM   
agirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO

What are circumstances in which you personally will tend to be receptive to advice?

As a general rule, when I've asked for it.

Under what circumstances do you give advice to someone else?

As a general rule, when it's asked of me, if I think I have any worth giving. If I don't think I have, I might help them find it elsewhere. I don't very often give advice at all, even with the children. I tend to just talk about the different options they see, mention the ones that I can see and leave it to them to find a solution.

agirl
 

Just wondering what others think about getting, and giving, Effective advice.



Any replies are appreciated. Thanks.

- Susan  

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RE: Re: Advice - what constitutes quality advice to you? - 4/25/2007 3:30:46 AM   
SusanofO


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Status: offline 		agirl: Thanks for the reply! 

- Susan

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

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RE: Re: Advice - what constitutes quality advice to you? - 4/25/2007 3:46:46 AM   
SusanofO


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Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		I should have clarified this, but I am speaking of giving and-or receiving, advice in situations where a specific D/s relationship hasn't been negotiated in specific terms (*but sometimes even if it has), as well as other life situations not involving D/s at all. 

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 4/25/2007 3:53:08 AM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

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RE: Re: Advice - what constitutes quality advice to you? - 4/25/2007 3:52:31 AM   
NakedGirlScout


Posts: 370
Joined: 1/10/2006
From: Toronto
Status: offline 		Hi SusanofO,
I hate unsolicited advice from strangers who've made assumptions about me without checking to see if they're true. Some of this sort of advice comes from spite; someone gets annoyed at you and instead of saying so, they become passive-aggressive and side-swipe you with pointed "advice" which is really a complaint or an attack. To them I always reply, "you know best," which for some reason makes them go away muttering, heheh.

Of the non-spiteful category of advice, I've found that it's a random hit-and-miss affair. Everyone means well, but whether the advice is useful or not to me comes to pure chance. The weight I put on it depends on how well the advisor knows me.

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RE: Re: Advice - what constitutes quality advice to you? - 4/25/2007 4:01:34 AM   
SusanofO


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Status: offline 		NakedGirlScout: I appreciate the reply, thanks. I love the "You know best" response in general, too (I agree, it does tend to just get someone off your back, as far as "nosy neighbor" types).

I also appreciate your division of the "Spiteful" and the "Non-Spiteful" advice giver categories.

I have pretty finely tuned antennae, for who is who as far as this goes (usually), even if I might not always appreciate the advice at first.  

And, if I am in an enlightened mind-set, or maybe just a good, and thus more open-minded, mood, I will also consider my frame of mind at the time I heard it, as far as my "gut reaction" to it - especially if it is something I may not want to hear. I consider myself confident, yet fairly humble, and I realize I have areas in which I can undoubtedly afford to grow (as does everyone). And there are of course times in my life I have felt, for various reasons, more secure than others. 

And Yes! Whether they know me, and how well, (and how perceptive I usually think they are, although I consider myself to be open-minded, yet discerning, in this regard), and whether they seem to care (on some level) for my welfare, matters to me, too.

*Some people or sources of advice just plain seem to motivate and inspire me more than others - as far as me taking advice on personal matters, and I am trying to figure out just exactly what is in operation here....am having a few of those introspective  "How does this whole thing really work? I thought I knew - but do I, really?"  questioning kinds of days.

I also started questioning why I give advice, or if and when I have particular expectations when I do (because it seemed a natural corrollary of thinking about when I myself, am most apt to take it in and consider it).

Again - to clarify to anyone who reads this thread - I am not referring to this Message Board. I consider this MB to be a forum for opinions, and anyone who posts a thread on it, should probably be prepared for any and all kinds of comments.Hopefully, people feel able to ask all kinds of questions and post about a cornucopia of thread topics.  

I am trying genuinely to dig into finding out what, specifically, motivates people to seek, and be receptive to advice - and to give advice.

Simply wanting to relate to other people, and feel useful, is probably one reason for giving it (unless they are in that truly" Spiteful advice-giver" category, and some folks are, some aren't). But there may be deeper or more exact, specific reasons as well, and I am trying to figure out what they may be.
  
As far as taking advice, I am unsure what motivates someone to do that, except trust for the source, feeling inspiration from it, and self-motivation.
 
And I am curious what others think about the realm of getting and giving, Effective advice. 

*I really appreciate all comments and replies. Thank you for reading.

- Susan   

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 4/25/2007 4:59:04 AM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

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RE: Re: Advice - what constitutes quality advice to you? - 4/25/2007 5:31:36 AM   
agirl


Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline 		Hi Susan,

You know, it seems rather simple to me.......if you have a problem, it makes sense to go to the best person you know to advise you.Usually the best person is one who understands you and can tailor their advice accordingly.

Some people tend to ask lots of people for advice on a problem and aren't very discrimate about who. That can just add the *Why are they telling me this?*.

Of course people have different motives when they give advice and you can eliminate the whole aspect of concern by being discriminate.

agirl

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RE: Re: Advice - what constitutes quality advice to you? - 4/25/2007 7:08:23 AM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
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Status: offline 		An excellent point (and I do agree, mostly). Makes sense. Thanks for the reply.

Some people can prey on the vulnerable, though - and I wonder sometimes if people especially some who might not have always had the best "support system" know who is who, in that regard. In that case, they may also seek it when it might not be needed. I've been pretty lucky, in that regard (although I've had my less secure moments for sure).

I think for me it partly depends on the magnitude of personal changes I may be going through, and how adept I feel I will be the time, as far as manuervering them. I generally tend to be fairly a confident type. I know I sought out grief counselling last year that indeed helped me.

I also had various people giving me conflicting, (and often un solicited, if well-meant) advice at that time. Some of it I blew off and some of it I took to heart, but whether I did or not wasn't always necessarily related to the source, which got me wondering...why I take it when  do (it's partly a quirky personal thing with me too, to a degree, I think).

- Susan

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to agirl)
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RE: Re: Advice - what constitutes quality advice to you? - 4/25/2007 8:08:58 AM   
agirl


Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline 		I suppose I'm thinking more in terms of specific advice for a specific problem here.

So much depends on what type of advice you're speaking of; life direction, relationship problems, child-care, illness, changing tap washers,  emotional upsets.......but the same applies really, surely.

Also, it depends on whether someone is likely to tell you what you SHOULD do or tell you what you COULD do.......and some people are just good at sifting through what they're given and sorting out what will work for them.

If I seek advice, it's information gathering. I then do what I think is best at the time.

I'm sure some people don't have rafts of reliable sources of advice around them, then it's more of a lottery..........but whatever advice you're given and why......it's still up to you to decide and choose to apply it or not.

Perhaps you blew off certain advice because it just *felt* wrong for you at the time and you didn't *feel* like doing what they suggested.

agirl





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RE: Re: Advice - what constitutes quality advice to you? - 4/25/2007 8:28:59 AM   
SimplyMichael


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Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline 		When I ask someone for advice, it is someone whom I have read their advice and it has made me reexamine my own beliefs or they think along similar lines BUT I know they don't suger coat shit.   

When I give someone advice I attempt to show why my experience is relevant and then do my best to call it like I see it.

What I value about this forum is I read people who have clearly done this, have and often admit mistakes, and that they are giving advice from the heart, not doing their best to appear uber dom/sub.  I especially value those who do things differently as it expands my horizons and often keeps me humble.

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RE: Re: Advice - what constitutes quality advice to you? - 4/25/2007 8:33:55 AM   
Asraii


Posts: 91
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quote:

What are circumstances in which you personally will tend to be receptive to advice?

If I am asking for advice, then naturally, I am going to listen to the advice given to me.
quote:

  Under what circumstances do you give advice to someone else?


Only if I am asked for my advice do I give it.

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RE: Re: Advice - what constitutes quality advice to you? - 4/25/2007 8:43:11 AM   
Missokyst


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Status: offline 		I find that advice (in general) tends to be accepted only if a person agrees with that advice.  That is, their minds are mostly closed to hearing anything but what they are prepared to hear.  People can be overly sensitive to what they perceive as attacks on their character if anyone dares to state what they think, whether they know them personally, or have developed a profile of their behavior in other ways.  I can be guilty of this myself, until I am ready to break down my parts into self evaluation. 
But I have to be ready for it. I have to accept that maybe I can't see the whole image in the mirror.  What it comes down it to for me, it is like I am taking my own advice on things.  I will glance over some advice as irrelevant because either it doesn't fit, or I am not ready to hear it.  I try not to let advice take on the color of a personal attack for more than a short while.  When I do see advice that I can deal with, it is usually because this is how I see things.  What I really wanted/needed was to hear something echoed back in my head.. I am ready to accept my (their) advice on things because it's not just me who sees things in the same way.
It isn't until I am ready to break myself down in to small pieces that I can try to look at some advice as something beyond their ego, and see some value in what they have offered me.
We learn based on our schedule and not before.
Kyst


quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO
Some people can prey on the vulnerable, though - and I wonder sometimes if people especially some who might not have always had the best "support system"


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pain is the breaking of the shell that encloses your understanding ~Gibran, Kahlil

“The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for.”
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RE: Re: Advice - what constitutes quality advice to you? - 4/25/2007 8:44:56 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
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From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

Just wondering what others think about getting, and giving, Effective advice.
 
What makes advice particulary effective for you, if you receive it?
Circumstances?
Being self-motivated to begin with? 


And - Why do you give someone else advice, when and if you do?

 
If I feel I have something relevent to add, I will. If not, I won't. My high post count comes more from off topic than here, because there are many things about wiitwd that I do not know. The longer I post here, the more I try to state that I do not know all the particulars of a situation when I offer advice.. the reason I give it is not for the person asking alone, but for all those who may read it later and have something resonate with them. I know there have been things here posted to others that have resonated with me. It is an exchange if you will.


I rarely seek advice here, especially relationship advice. None of you know me well enough to give it. I am rather protective of my life when it comes to my family and my Daddy, and I have a couple of select friends I talk to about things... and then there is my mom who gives the best advice ever.


_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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RE: Re: Advice - what constitutes quality advice to you? - 4/25/2007 8:48:50 AM   
thetammyjo


Posts: 6322
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Status: offline 		I try to keep the following in mind when giving advice -- I'm sure I fail at parts of it.

First, I have to be seeking advice. I don't do this often, this the low number of threads I've started.

Second, the advice should come from a place of experience -- someone who has had a similar experience or who has been involved in meatlife scening for years.

Third, advice given with qualifiers such as "this might work" or "in my case" -- no universal claims beyond safety and consent issues and even then an acknowledgement that that can be a matter of opinion.

Fourth, asks questions, tries to get the person seeking advice to think for themselves first.

Finally, advice that does not eliminate personal responsibility for the seeker. Focuses on what they can do not what they should expect others to do.

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RE: Re: Advice - what constitutes quality advice to you? - 4/25/2007 9:08:54 AM   
juliaoceania


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From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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quote:

Again - to clarify to anyone who reads this thread - I am not referring to this Message Board. I consider this MB to be a forum for opinions, and anyone who posts a thread on it, should probably be prepared for any and all kinds of comments.Hopefully, people feel able to ask all kinds of questions and post about a cornucopia of thread topics.  

I am trying genuinely to dig into finding out what, specifically, motivates people to seek, and be receptive to advice - and to give advice.


 
I do not give advice to many people, even if they ask for it. My best friend is a submissive, and I used to give her advice, now I do not so much anymore. Her situation has taken such a turn I feel like I cannot objectively offer it, so I just listen.

Edited to add, I never ask her for advice anymore. Our dynamic is such that I turn to him when I need to address something, she can't advise me on it. I found that out the hard way.

< Message edited by juliaoceania -- 4/25/2007 9:10:19 AM >

_____________________________

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Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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RE: Re: Advice - what constitutes quality advice to you? - 4/25/2007 9:12:05 AM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		I appreciate the thought-provoking, and thoughtful replies.

quote:

ORIGINAL: agirl

Also, it depends on whether someone is likely to tell you what you SHOULD do or tell you what you COULD do.......
If I seek advice, it's information gathering. I then do what I think is best at the time.



Yes, this is last part of your reply especially resonated with me, as well. I, too, do the best I can do at the time, when someone
gives me advice, once I've accepted for myself that I need it (of course if I asked for the advice, that may happen sooner, rather than later. If it's unsolicited advice, it might accept it, too, if I find it apt, or maybe never).

Missokyst: Standing back at times and processing it is sometimes easier for me than others, but generally, I am able to do it better when I can gain an objective POV about it all and take an overview.
Oddly maybe, because I tend to be a "feeler" type person, what may motivate me to take it sometimes, is concern for how it may have felt for someone to feel they had to give it to me to begin with, or at least believing it came from a good place in their heart, regardless of how unpalatable it seemed originally.

thetammyjo: I liked your four points in your reply - especially the last point -- focussing on what someone can do themselves, not what they expect others to do.

juliaoceania: What you said resonates with me (both your posts in this thread). If I too, post anything here it is usually from my own personal experince (as is everyone's I am guessing) but I post anything construed as advice because generally, I feel it might resonate with someone later (even if months later) for some person I may never meet, if they dredge up a thread (it's happened), and a lot of folks do read these forums, even if they never post.

*Re, your second post: I also have been in a situation with a long-time female friend whom I dearly care about, where her life has taken so many changes and turns in the past year (most of them unfortunate ones) where she is relying solely on the man in her life for any advice (even if much of it, has been bad advice, IMO), but I don't interfere, because I know she wouldn't hear me if I did. I am staying out of that part of her life, even if she sometimes does seek advice from me, I hesitate to give it  - even though we get along still, and remain in contact, and I do wish her well. She is not in a D/s relationship now (although one of hers, in the past, was pretty much D/s, without the label, or awareness of D/s as a "lifestyle" attached to it).


SimplyMichael: Yes, I need to believe someone's experience is relevant to my own on some level, if I am seeking it, and that it is straight-forward and honest, as far as maybe not serving only a truly selfish motive.

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 4/25/2007 9:53:22 AM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to agirl)
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RE: Re: Advice - what constitutes quality advice to you? - 4/25/2007 10:52:05 AM   
Suleiman


Posts: 1127
Joined: 9/9/2004
Status: offline 		I try very hard not to give unsolcited advice. Some times, I can't keep my mouth shut, but for the most part, I only offer advice or feedback when the subject has been broached and I believe that I am being asked for my opinion.

My mind moves rather slowly and deliberately, grinding along in careful rotations as I try to consider every angle. I often seem impervious to outside advice, because I'm stil considering the situation - and yes, my lack of alacrity has cost me opportunities in the past, but I feel that I also have fewer regrets overall than some of my more impulsive acquaintances. That being said, I do heed the advice I have been given, but the advice itself is only one of myriad things to consider.

I don't often solicit advice, largely because I've discovered that most of the time, the stuff I want help with, other people have no clue about. That tends to be especially true for online fora like this one, where I seem to be handing out advice left and right, but the few times I ask a question, all I get back are the sound of crickets chirping. Then again, I never ask the simple questions. I know how to find answers for the simple questions.

I do take in a great deal of the advice handed out by others to others, and squirrel it away for future reference in case I encounter a similar situation. Listening is a useful tool for avoiding some of the pitfalls in life. Even so, more often than not, I find that unsolicited advice has a pretty obvious agenda attached to it, which undermines the validity of whatever input the speaker may be providing. I guess I approach unsolicited advice the way I do organized religion - I take what I need, and ignore the rest.


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Think of my verbosity as a sort of litmus test for our relationship. I write in a manner identical to how I speak and how I think. If you can not cope with what I have written here, it is probably for the best if we go our separate ways.

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RE: Re: Advice - what constitutes quality advice to you? - 4/25/2007 11:01:10 AM   
MasterFireMaam


Posts: 5587
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO

What are circumstances in which you personally will tend to be receptive to advice?

When I ask for it...although if someone offers an opinion, I will listen. If it's someone I like and/or respect, I'll give it considerable thought.

quote:

Under what circumstances do you give advice to someone else?

Giving advice is a primary way I communicate (I'm a two with a one wing - enneagrams). I have a tendency to respond to people who are either asking directly for advice or who somehow indicate that some advice would be helpful. I TRY not to step on toes and I TRY to offer it as an opinion if I'm not asked directly for it, but I sometimes fail miserably at that!


quote:

And - Why do you give someone else advice, when and if you do?

To try and help them.

Master Fire

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The power of who we are can be intoxicating. The power of who we could be is humbling.
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Ms Relationship Books
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BDSM How-To Books

(in reply to SusanofO)
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