RE: Are there any Dominants who don't care about submissive orgasm?

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WillowRain -> RE: Are there any Dominants who don't care about submissive orgasm? (5/13/2007 4:22:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: daddysprop247 about it taking extraordinary confidence for a Dominant to "make it all about them." yes, i DO think it takes a very confident Man/Dominant to be totally comfortable and at ease with making it all about them. however that does NOT mean that a Dominant must ALWAYS make it all about them in order to be "extraordinarily confident," simply that he has that ability and makes it happen when he wants with no qualms, guilt, etc. so for example a Dominant who brings his submissive to orgasm when he gets that urge, and simply uses his submissive for his own release with no thought whatsoever to her arousal when he gets that urge, could still be described as having that particular high level confidence. hope that clears it up. [:)] Personally, I don't equate ease and ability to be selfish, or narsasistic, or self focused to be something I associate with what I think of as Dominant. Clearly this has a strong charge for you that hits certain buttons. What makes someone Dominant in your eyes, might very well make them a putz in mine. We are all differant. It's all about matching, person to person, what fits. I would not ever put "the ability to be self centered or selfish" on my list of traits that I consider dominant. I do not equate that with confidence at all. To be honest, I personally tend to put that tendancy in the immaturity catagory. But it doesn't matter what I think or respond to. This works for you, and that is valid. Honerable, honest, strong, those perhaps we would agree on??

peepeegirl5 -> RE: Are there any Dominants who don't care about submissive orgasm? (5/19/2007 7:05:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tricia subbier than thou attitudes eXcellent!!! that's really quite original :)

Drockan -> RE: Are there any Dominants who don't care about submissive orgasm? (5/21/2007 2:52:04 AM)
It seems to me, in my inexperience, that it's simply a matter of control. It seems evident that being in control of a sub's orgasm, whether through cause or denial, is the ultimate validation of ones dominance. Perhaps they're trying to prove it to their sub. or perhaps to themselves. Personally, I love to see a woman writhing in orgasmic bliss. Don't really care if it's caused by her, or a machine, or myself, as long as I see and hear it. On the other hand, I favor orgasm denial with other males. Play with them all day and leave them begging for more. Another fine form of control, denial. But what do I know?

Aswad -> RE: Are there any Dominants who don't care about submissive orgasm? (6/2/2007 7:21:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Drockan It seems to me, in my inexperience, that it's simply a matter of control. It seems evident that being in control of a sub's orgasm, whether through cause or denial, is the ultimate validation of ones dominance. That is part of what daddysprop was trying to say, and myself as well, but both got a bit shot down for: In some (many?) cases, a Dom will see that as (quoting you) "the ultimate validation of ones dominance". The point, then, was that some need that validation, while others don't, and that daddysprop (if I remember correctly) said that it took confidence for a person not to require validation. The orgasm isn't the issue at all; it's about validation. I don't see it that way, and don't feel a need for validation; I don't have a problem with providing any number of orgasms if that is what the other partner wants, but I prefer not to do so, if that's something the partner is perfectly okay with or indeed prefers. quote: Personally, I love to see a woman writhing in orgasmic bliss. Don't really care if it's caused by her, or a machine, or myself, as long as I see and hear it. I like to know my partner is content, fulfilled and happy. If orgasms are a part of that, then I like to be successful at providing them. If not, it doesn't do anything for me right now. quote: But what do I know? What does anyone know? What does it matter? [:D]

MzMia -> RE: Are there any Dominants who don't care about submissive orgasm? (6/2/2007 9:06:26 PM)
I am glad to see this thread back again. It is an excellent thread, thank you daddysprop for starting it. This is my take on this topic. Some Dominants care about their submissives orgasms, and some don't. Just because a Dominant does NOT care about their submissives orgasm, does NOT make them a bad Dominant. Everyone has a different dynamic in this lifestyle. Why do we expect all Master/slave relationships to be the same? As long as it works for the two people involved, they have a right to live anyway they want to live. I enjoy reading DaddysProps posts and I think being different is actually allowed! How about them apples? Peace

MzMia -> RE: Are there any Dominants who don't care about submissive orgasm? (6/2/2007 9:24:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: daddysprop247 slave luci, contrary to what you seem to think, i don't think there is some universal "right way" in this matter. i do not find it silly or odd that there are Dominants who care about a submissive's sexual response...i can understand some desiring to control that particular aspect of their submissive, and i can even understand a Dominant simply wanting to make sure that their submissive is sexually fulfilled. what i don't understand, and what boggles my mind, is that sooo many Dominants don't simply "care" about a submissive's sexual response, but place such a huge significance on it, to the point where they can't/won't tolerate a submissive who is nonresponsive. i also don't understand why more Dominants don't understand that a submissive's sexual fulfillment doesn't have to equate to an orgasm. [sm=applause.gif]You make your point well, daddysprop- There is no one way here. Submission means different things for different people, there are some submissives that only care about what the Dominant wants, period. And you know what? That is okay.

peepeegirl5 -> RE: Are there any Dominants who don't care about submissive orgasm? (6/4/2007 6:01:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: daddysprop247 so my questions are basically this....why do so many Dominants care so much about submissive orgasm and arousal? are they not aware that submissives will find pleasure and fulfillment in pleasing them, but that doesn't necessarily translate to a wet, throbbing pussy? or is it an ego thing? and most importantly...where are the Dominants who simply don't care? Well i think males do for the reason you mentioned... they require female validation, they exist for our approval, there self-worth is entirely dependent upon our opinion of them. As for it being sexual, well for several decades it's all been proclaimed that the female orgasm is essential. Males like that because it's efficient. They can get validated by a woman AND get off too. How perfect!!! If males were told that women thought males who sliced off their right ear were THE BOMB! They'd have to redesign avaitor sunglasses. Your male is just more thoughtful than most. He sees the value in getting validated by you when he gets off and is further validated by you because he doesn't get you off because that's what you want. WOW! how pre-1965. Don't worry, you'll outgrow your delusions soon enough.

Masternslave07 -> RE: Are there any Dominants who don't care about submissive orgasm? (6/4/2007 6:07:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: peepeegirl5 quote: ORIGINAL: daddysprop247 so my questions are basically this....why do so many Dominants care so much about submissive orgasm and arousal? are they not aware that submissives will find pleasure and fulfillment in pleasing them, but that doesn't necessarily translate to a wet, throbbing pussy? or is it an ego thing? and most importantly...where are the Dominants who simply don't care? Well i think males do for the reason you mentioned... they require female validation, they exist for our approval, there self-worth is entirely dependent upon our opinion of them. As for it being sexual, well for several decades it's all been proclaimed that the female orgasm is essential. Males like that because it's efficient. They can get validated by a woman AND get off too. How perfect!!! If males were told that women thought males who sliced off their right ear were THE BOMB! They'd have to redesign avaitor sunglasses. Your male is just more thoughtful than most. He sees the value in getting validated by you when he gets off and is further validated by you because he doesn't get you off because that's what you want. WOW! how pre-1965. Don't worry, you'll outgrow your delusions soon enough. Lol. Obviously a college girl. That is where drivel like this is believed.

peepeegirl5 -> RE: Are there any Dominants who don't care about submissive orgasm? (6/4/2007 6:11:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Masternslave07 quote: ORIGINAL: peepeegirl5 quote: ORIGINAL: daddysprop247 so my questions are basically this....why do so many Dominants care so much about submissive orgasm and arousal? are they not aware that submissives will find pleasure and fulfillment in pleasing them, but that doesn't necessarily translate to a wet, throbbing pussy? or is it an ego thing? and most importantly...where are the Dominants who simply don't care? Well i think males do for the reason you mentioned... they require female validation, they exist for our approval, there self-worth is entirely dependent upon our opinion of them. As for it being sexual, well for several decades it's all been proclaimed that the female orgasm is essential. Males like that because it's efficient. They can get validated by a woman AND get off too. How perfect!!! If males were told that women thought males who sliced off their right ear were THE BOMB! They'd have to redesign avaitor sunglasses. Your male is just more thoughtful than most. He sees the value in getting validated by you when he gets off and is further validated by you because he doesn't get you off because that's what you want. WOW! how pre-1965. Don't worry, you'll outgrow your delusions soon enough. Lol. Obviously a college girl. That is where drivel like this is believed. O look! a woman who requires male validation... how kewt :)

LafayetteLady -> RE: Are there any Dominants who don't care about submissive orgasm? (6/4/2007 7:10:24 PM)
As some others have undoubtedly said, many men tend to feel they are "less" if the woman they are with is not bubbling over with mulitple orgasms from their touch. Remember that for most men, the orgasm IS the be all and end all of their sexual activity. So it is quite natural, in a sense, for them to not understand why it would not be that way for you. I noticed that very early, you said how you couldn't "focus" long enough to "get there". I read that and laughed out loud. Now before you get insulted, I wasn't laughing at you, I was laughing because I have in the past tried to explain that very thing to a partner. I have been multiorgasmic, simply orgasmic, anally orgasmic and non orgasmic. During each of those times, I derived a great deal of pleasure from the experience. To have a clitoral orgasm, for me, requires very specific friction and if my partner moves a centimeter in the wrong direction, I may need to start all over again. It takes a great deal of concentration to make sure that everything is moving in tandem, blah, blah, blah. Sometimes I am enjoying the sex so much I just really don't want to "focus" that much on the orgasm. I am having MORE than enough fun without it. The funny thing is that other times, just thinking about what my partner might do to me can bring on an orgasm. So in the end, I don't worry about it much. It isn't the be all and end all for me. It has brought some issues with partners because it has made THEM feel inferior. I am truly sorry that people have made you feel "defective" because of such a thing. THAT is very uncaring and selfish. As with some many other things around here, if you and your partner are happy with how it works, who is anyone else to say it is "wrong"? I hope you have been comforted seeing that you aren't the only person in the world who is like this.

Aswad -> RE: Are there any Dominants who don't care about submissive orgasm? (6/4/2007 8:08:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Masternslave07 Lol. Obviously a college girl. That is where drivel like this is believed. Thanks for saving me the effort of replying to her directly. I get the same feeling of embarrassment on behalf of the poster from the female supremacy crowd as I do from the male supremacy crowd. At the very least, people could try to stick to the actual differences between the genders and assigning value to that.

peepeegirl5 -> RE: Are there any Dominants who don't care about submissive orgasm? (6/5/2007 7:35:48 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aswad quote: ORIGINAL: Masternslave07 Lol. Obviously a college girl. That is where drivel like this is believed. Thanks for saving me the effort of replying to her directly. I get the same feeling of embarrassment on behalf of the poster from the female supremacy crowd as I do from the male supremacy crowd. At the very least, people could try to stick to the actual differences between the genders and assigning value to that. defensive and verbose braincage with silly haircut and no original thought. You have plenty to be embarrassed about :)

AquaticSub -> RE: Are there any Dominants who don't care about submissive orgasm? (6/5/2007 7:52:08 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Masternslave07 quote: ORIGINAL: peepeegirl5 quote: ORIGINAL: daddysprop247 so my questions are basically this....why do so many Dominants care so much about submissive orgasm and arousal? are they not aware that submissives will find pleasure and fulfillment in pleasing them, but that doesn't necessarily translate to a wet, throbbing pussy? or is it an ego thing? and most importantly...where are the Dominants who simply don't care? Well i think males do for the reason you mentioned... they require female validation, they exist for our approval, there self-worth is entirely dependent upon our opinion of them. As for it being sexual, well for several decades it's all been proclaimed that the female orgasm is essential. Males like that because it's efficient. They can get validated by a woman AND get off too. How perfect!!! If males were told that women thought males who sliced off their right ear were THE BOMB! They'd have to redesign avaitor sunglasses. Your male is just more thoughtful than most. He sees the value in getting validated by you when he gets off and is further validated by you because he doesn't get you off because that's what you want. WOW! how pre-1965. Don't worry, you'll outgrow your delusions soon enough. Lol. Obviously a college girl. That is where drivel like this is believed. Or maybe it's the only place where men are educated enough to admit to it. This idea was expressed by all the men in my sexuality class. Their proweress as a lover was validated by the number and quality of their partner's orgasms. Just a thought.

Aswad -> RE: Are there any Dominants who don't care about submissive orgasm? (6/5/2007 2:53:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: peepeegirl5 defensive and verbose braincage with silly haircut and no original thought. You have plenty to be embarrassed about :) ~lol~ Yeah, I guess you're right about that: the *haircut* was definitely silly. It was a thing, it didn't work out. In the end I had to put the poor hairdo out of its misery. Practical, though. The picture doesn't show, but I tried it braided and as unage (a topknot). Both did wonders for my dandruff problems, and cut down on the amount of time needed to get it clean (I used to have thick, straight hair to way past my shoulders). Not nearly as much of a problem during MA workouts. I picked that picture for my avatar because the only people who'll recognize me from it are the ones who already know me well enough to know that I'm kinky. In my line of work, it isn't always very kosher, and at my age, I need all the credibility I can get when telling "stuffy old men" how to restructure their security process and what it will cost them to do so. I won't insult your intelligence by pretending you didn't realize I was embarrassed for you, rather than for me. As for no original thought, perhaps not. Read my posts in other threads and find out. Sweeping generalizations about a gender doesn't make much sense, though, and it's certainly not original; men came up with that first, to be sure. And they were just as far off in their understanding of women as your statement was if taken as applying to all men.

RaynaSub -> RE: Are there any Dominants who don't care about submissive orgasm? (6/5/2007 2:56:18 PM)
Great post LafayeteeLady

Aswad -> RE: Are there any Dominants who don't care about submissive orgasm? (6/5/2007 2:59:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AquaticSub Or maybe it's the only place where men are educated enough to admit to it. This idea was expressed by all the men in my sexuality class. Their proweress as a lover was validated by the number and quality of their partner's orgasms. Personally, I prefer to let my partner comment on my prowess as a lover, but I digress. I don't seek validation, whether in terms of orgasm count, or anything else. I do aim to have a content, fulfilled and happy partner, but whether that relates to my prowess as a lover, or something else entirely, will depend on what that partner wants. In daddysprop's example, orgasms don't factor into it. In yours, it does (IIRC). I don't dispute that many men need that for validation, though. Just objecting to the idea that all men do, or that all men are wired the same. Just like I don't think all women are wired the same. No more than two kinds of people? There's a depressing thought...

AquaticSub -> RE: Are there any Dominants who don't care about submissive orgasm? (6/5/2007 3:26:39 PM)
I certainly wouldn't say that all men need validation, or even most men need validation in that particular way. But I would say that it's not unusual at all and I wouldn't go so far as to say that it's even a bad thing in all cases. But I would say that the bragging of conquest seems to have changed, at least among the college-educated men that I have encountered. It is no longer the number of women that speaks to their virility, but the number of orgasms they gave their partner. I'm not all that sure it's a bad thing as it may mean these men are trying to be better lovers, even if only for the bragging rights. The only time it becomes a bad thing is when they can't accept that either a woman doesn't want an orgasm or that an orgasm just isn't going to happen tonight. Of course, I'm speaking of just general sex here, not really sex in a d/s dynamic.

Aswad -> RE: Are there any Dominants who don't care about submissive orgasm? (6/5/2007 4:53:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AquaticSub I certainly wouldn't say that all men need validation, or even most men need validation in that particular way. But I would say that it's not unusual at all and I wouldn't go so far as to say that it's even a bad thing in all cases. peepee was making some sweeping generalizations, though, and someone tore into her a bit over that, which you replied to; hence my confusion. I'd agree it doesn't have to be a bad thing. Great for the women, for sure. quote: But I would say that the bragging of conquest seems to have changed, at least among the college-educated men that I have encountered. It is no longer the number of women that speaks to their virility, but the number of orgasms they gave their partner. I'm not all that sure it's a bad thing as it may mean these men are trying to be better lovers, even if only for the bragging rights. In my experience, with "regular" boys, they spend more time bragging about orgasms than causing them. For anyone but themselves, at least. It's probably as much BS'ing when they're talking about those bits, as when they're talking about the number of girls. And I'm fairly confident (from a large, but admittedly not normalized, sample) that a significant majority of the boys can't tell faking having a good time to get out of the darn bed to do some laundry without bruising his ego, from actually having one. And that they'd still count them, even if they knew they were fake. Most the boys I knew at that age didn't give a damn about the girl, in that regard, but would brag nonetheless. Those I knew who did care, were evenly divided between those who were too vanilla (think missionary) to consider technique and stamina, while the rest were genuinely concerned about making it good for her. More recently, I've been passing on what I do know to those who care. Mind you, I'm no stud- not even before the ED- but it's amazing how few know about simple things like breathing techniques (how else are the missionary guys going to keep on past the first two hours?), proper angling and how to use lidocaine if the breathing techniques don't work. quote: The only time it becomes a bad thing is when they can't accept that either a woman doesn't want an orgasm or that an orgasm just isn't going to happen tonight. ~nod~ That appears to be a common problem. And was, if I understood things correctly, one of the things that bothered daddysprop. quote: Of course, I'm speaking of just general sex here, not really sex in a d/s dynamic. Ah. I've never tried that, except with nephandi, before we got into the D/s bits. So I made a bit of a mixed reply.

AquaticSub -> RE: Are there any Dominants who don't care about submissive orgasm? (6/5/2007 5:46:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aswad It's probably as much BS'ing when they're talking about those bits, as when they're talking about the number of girls. And I'm fairly confident (from a large, but admittedly not normalized, sample) that a significant majority of the boys can't tell faking having a good time to get out of the darn bed to do some laundry without bruising his ego, from actually having one. And that they'd still count them, even if they knew they were fake. To be perfectly blunt, the lack of ability of a man to tell a real orgasm from a fake one lies entirely with women who do fake and the huge differences in sexual response by different women. Valyraen has been with a woman who did orgasm, but didn't move and then you have me, who moves, screams and squirts. I personally know woman who don't move but do enjoy their orgasms very much. And when a woman fakes it, then she is just rewarding the wrong behavior. I just can't discredit a man because a woman lied to him and said he was great in bed when he wasn't. quote: The only time it becomes a bad thing is when they can't accept that either a woman doesn't want an orgasm or that an orgasm just isn't going to happen tonight. ~nod~ That appears to be a common problem. And was, if I understood things correctly, one of the things that bothered daddysprop. For me the question seemed to be "Why do they have to care if I can't orgasm?", to which my only answer is because some men enjoy seeing their women aroused and orgasming. It's a sexual preference the way large breasts vs. small breasts is. quote: quote: Of course, I'm speaking of just general sex here, not really sex in a d/s dynamic. Ah. I've never tried that, except with nephandi, before we got into the D/s bits. So I made a bit of a mixed reply. To me, the question is almost impossible to discuss in the d/s dynamics. The master wants it, he wants it. That's all there is to it. There doesn't need to be a reason. The only question is: Can you provide what they want? I would be entirely unsuitable for a master who thrived on orgasm denial or didn't care about my sexual satisfication. While I don't need an orgasm every time, I do seem to really need them on a semi-regular basis. Which why I'm entirely suitable for a man whose arousal is only furthered by female arousal and orgasm.

Aswad -> RE: Are there any Dominants who don't care about submissive orgasm? (6/5/2007 6:08:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AquaticSub To be perfectly blunt, the lack of ability of a man to tell a real orgasm from a fake one lies entirely with women who do fake and the huge differences in sexual response by different women. True. And good point. quote: Valyraen has been with a woman who did orgasm, but didn't move and then you have me, who moves, screams and squirts. I personally know woman who don't move but do enjoy their orgasms very much. My nephandi doesn't move at all, quite often. There are generally some temperature variations, pubococcygeus contractions, and some local muscle tension externally; I haven't a clue about flushing etc., I really don't pay all that much attention to it. She knows how to let me know if she's not happy about things, and she knows how to do the job herself if she'd like to (which she generally prefers; Aspies and physical contact issues). Temp variations and muscle tension probably varies lots. PC contractions can be faked with a bit of practice. So, yeah, I don't have a problem buying that it can be faked well enough to fool me. Though I can't think of any sensible reasons for anyone to go to all that trouble, when saying "Don't worry about it, I like it anyway" or "You suck" or "I'm not in the mood right now" would do quite nicely.[:D] quote: And when a woman fakes it, then she is just rewarding the wrong behavior. Definitely. It surprises me how few women seem to realize this. quote: I just can't discredit a man because a woman lied to him and said he was great in bed when he wasn't. No, I get that. And such wasn't what I was trying to say, either. I just meant that what they're talking about in class, and what they're actually doing, probably corresponds as well as ever, i.e. not at all. quote: For me the question seemed to be "Why do they have to care if I can't orgasm?", to which my only answer is because some men enjoy seeing their women aroused and orgasming. It's a sexual preference the way large breasts vs. small breasts is. Yeah, that too. But I also got the impression that she was frustrated that some are obsessed with it, which didn't work for her. quote: To me, the question is almost impossible to discuss in the d/s dynamics. The master wants it, he wants it. That's all there is to it. There doesn't need to be a reason. The only question is: Can you provide what they want? ~nod~ And, important enough as well, can he do without, if it doesn't work for her? In short, are they compatible? quote: I would be entirely unsuitable for a master who thrived on orgasm denial or didn't care about my sexual satisfication. While I don't need an orgasm every time, I do seem to really need them on a semi-regular basis. Which why I'm entirely suitable for a man whose arousal is only furthered by female arousal and orgasm. ~nod~ Personally, I don't have a problem with providing for it as often as needed / wanted. It's just that I prefer to play the tyrant (deSade reference), and let hers be a case of "if it happens, it happens". If nephandi ever starts needing them from me in order to be happy/content/fulfilled, I'll start working on it again. It wasn't a problem in the vanilla days; I can't tie a cherry stem into a knot with my tongue, but I can take a hint, and I'm nothing if not persistent. That usually does the trick, or so I hear. Else, I'm not at all adverse to learning to do better. I'm a perfectionist, after all. [:D] The ED puts a clamp on any attempts to go the missionary route, though. [:(]

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