quote:

ORIGINAL: Kaledorus

quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation
But innocents are dieing !!

You are right, innocents are dying, and it is a tragedy.
However 10 years after Tony Blair banned handguns there is 50% more violent crime involving guns in England, that's what the Daily Telegraph reported earlier this month in a story about robberies tripling over last year.

I think England and Wales should have the types of laws they deem best, whatever works for them is fine with me.

In my case I have seen innocent victims horribly injured, if not killed, because they were barred, by law, from having a personal firearm in the city they resided in.
Why should a little girl, 90lbs and 5'4" be brutalized by 4 large, let's euphemistically call them culturally deprived young men, who she saw in plenty of time to dispatch if she had been able to have a firearm, the law barred her from having one, so she could only take the beating and stomping. Now maybe you don't have, in England, such gentlemen. However in America we have millions of them and more and more America becomes increasingly like that and less than it was in the 1950s.

If you have a chance to travel please come and visit Philadelphia, Los Angeles, Oakland, Detroit, New York City, and other parts of America, you will see that good people do need their firearms because our streets are NOT safe.

I thank you for you contributions to this discussion and you are entitled to your viewpoint and while you are someone of a varying opinion from my own I think you are a fair person overall.

quote:

ORIGINAL: PenetratingGaze

missturbation,
please do not fear coming to visit our lovely country - it really isn't as bad as one one think reading this message board rants. Most Americans are decent, nice, sweet, caring individuals - especially in the southern states, where, ironically, we have the most pro-gun people, myself and Mistress included. Yes, there are areas where it may not be the safest to tread, but you have nothing more to fear in this country, than I would visiting the UK, even though I'm partially of Jewish extraction and you have a much higher ratio of radical/conservative muslims than we do. Being also partially of Scot descent I must ask - would you fear going to Scotland because they have a history of Clan violence, not to mention the 'fun' times, before James the 1st and 6th, found in the English/Scot border marches? I will guess not. People sometimes have a history of &/or reputation for violence that is overblown.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

I propose a trip to the US; a Brit tour with all the message board regulars - me, MissT, NG, Seeks, Dark and Darcy and anyone else who wants to go. We could even fetch MC along, Pilgrims' style from Holland.

I'd feel safer almost anywhere over there I'm sure, than in a bar in Glasgow or Blaenau Ffestiniog. In those places my accent would see me dead in under 30 seconds, whilst at least in Crackton USA I'd be an exotic novelty of more interest to talk to than to stab/shoot/glass etc.

E

quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

General Response ...
 
I have a wonderful plan to get the United States in line with gun control nations.

• The government needs to hire about a million more border control agents, so nobody can sneak guns in, or sneak kidnapped future sex slaves out.
  

quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

quote:

ORIGINAL: PenetratingGaze

missturbation,
please do not fear coming to visit our lovely country - it really isn't as bad as one one think reading this message board rants. Most Americans are decent, nice, sweet, caring individuals - especially in the southern states, where, ironically, we have the most pro-gun people, myself and Mistress included. Yes, there are areas where it may not be the safest to tread, but you have nothing more to fear in this country, than I would visiting the UK, even though I'm partially of Jewish extraction and you have a much higher ratio of radical/conservative muslims than we do. Being also partially of Scot descent I must ask - would you fear going to Scotland because they have a history of Clan violence, not to mention the 'fun' times, before James the 1st and 6th, found in the English/Scot border marches? I will guess not. People sometimes have a history of &/or reputation for violence that is overblown.

Ive never been to scotland and yes if the reputation was of  a similar nature to the rep america has for its guns etc i would stay away.
Funnily i went to wales a few times and some parts are very anti brit. Ive never visited those parts again. I know its not the same thing but i disliked it there and i fear i would dislike parts of america where guns are carried by citizens as some are irresponsible. Just look at some of the gun owners in this thread who have got riled by a discussion in a forum and name called etc, hate to meet their gun carrying selves in real life.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Casie

quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

quote:

ORIGINAL: PenetratingGaze

missturbation,
please do not fear coming to visit our lovely country - it really isn't as bad as one one think reading this message board rants. Most Americans are decent, nice, sweet, caring individuals - especially in the southern states, where, ironically, we have the most pro-gun people, myself and Mistress included. Yes, there are areas where it may not be the safest to tread, but you have nothing more to fear in this country, than I would visiting the UK, even though I'm partially of Jewish extraction and you have a much higher ratio of radical/conservative muslims than we do. Being also partially of Scot descent I must ask - would you fear going to Scotland because they have a history of Clan violence, not to mention the 'fun' times, before James the 1st and 6th, found in the English/Scot border marches? I will guess not. People sometimes have a history of &/or reputation for violence that is overblown.

Ive never been to scotland and yes if the reputation was of  a similar nature to the rep america has for its guns etc i would stay away.
Funnily i went to wales a few times and some parts are very anti brit. Ive never visited those parts again. I know its not the same thing but i disliked it there and i fear i would dislike parts of america where guns are carried by citizens as some are irresponsible. Just look at some of the gun owners in this thread who have got riled by a discussion in a forum and name called etc, hate to meet their gun carrying selves in real life.

Just because some one is passionate in their words and stance on a message board does not mean they would ever even think about shooting you because they disagree. They believe in the right to DEFEND themselves, not shoot people they disagree with. So as long as you weren't trying to physically harm them you have no worries. And in America not just every jo shmo can carry a gun. In most states you have to pay a fee, and go through a training program, so that you don't have the accidents you have talked about earlier. Assuming someone may hurt you because they believe that responsible adults should be allowed to carry guns and protect themselves and others, and strongly disagree with your stance is absurd

quote:

ORIGINAL: PenetratingGaze

Thanks Casie, I just wonder if missturbation when visiting would rather have, when visiting, as a tour guide someone like Sicarus or Kaledorus if some idiot like Cho popped-up, or,  would she rather have someone around like, ohhh, I don't know... Meatcleaver? 

Alexi

quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

quote:

ORIGINAL: PenetratingGaze

Thanks Casie, I just wonder if missturbation when visiting would rather have, when visiting, as a tour guide someone like Sicarus or Kaledorus if some idiot like Cho popped-up, or,  would she rather have someone around like, ohhh, I don't know... Meatcleaver? 

Alexi

Meatcleaver any day of the week.
I personally wouldnt hang around with anyone who shows an unhealthy interest in weapons so meatcleaver woulod be my choice.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kentaro1980

quote:

There are some estimates that suggest that the nation of Germany, even if we completely discount WW1, may be responsible for as many as 55,000,000 deaths as a result of WW2.

Yes. My Grandfather, born 1936, was 9 years old by the time WW2 ended. he is now a 71 year old man and from his graduating class of 35 some people there are 3 people still alive. I really honestly truly believe it's time to put this "guilt" issue at rest. the people that were responsible for it are either convicted and/or dead. And others..(like me) were born 35 years after the war was over. I don't really see why i should be held responsible for anything ;) And no, WW1 is not a sensitive topic, not for me, nor for Germany as a whole, as history has been corrected...WW2 is a totally different subject and I for one am sick and tired of being held responsible for it in any way or form just because i happened to be born here. (Not directed at you at all btw)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nastgargoyle

"My point is if they can't keep their cool or temper in a message forum, then chances are they cant keep their cool in every day life.
They can strongly disagree with me as much as they wish, i have no issue with that but resorting to insults etc is just pathetic and shows them for what they are.
On another note those here who idolise and romanticise their weapons - well slightly concerning i find it. I believe to tell me that all gun owners in the USA are responsible is absurd. Ooo a fee and a training course, sorry but that does not a responsible gun owner make."

Since the training course that you seem to be ridiculing is comparable to the firearms training of law enforcement officers, and since the request to obtain a carry permit results in a background investigation comparable to what law enforcement officers undergo, if the people in question can pass both missturbation, why would you not consider them responsible?
Are you telling me no law enforcement officer has ever gone off the rails and shot someone when they shouldnt? Funnily enough all sorts of people get through all kind of back ground checks that shouldnt. It does not make them a responsible person.

There is a sharp and sitinct difference between people that can Purchase a firearm, and people that can Carry a firearm.
Should just anyone be allowed to buy a gun and carry it in their pocket? Hell no. I've discovered that 90% of the world population shouldnt even be allowed out of doors with crayons unless they have adult supervision.
Do I believe that just anyone should be able to go buy a gun when they want to keep in there home? If they can pass a regular background check and are observing the law, then I can't see a reason why not if they are responsible in its use or storage.
because background checks are not infallible and i could probably pass a gun training course, doesnt mean i should be able to own one.
Of the absolutely tiny fraction of people in the remainder that are Eligible to carry a gun if they choose do I think they should be allowed to carry one into places like schools, hospitals, libraries, grocery marts?
Yes.
Your opinion and you are entitled to it. I would disagree though.
Becuase if they have managed to go through all the neccessary training, requirements, and investigations it requires to qalify for a personal carry permit, then they have jumped into the statistical catagory of the less than 1% of the united states least likely to even get a parking ticket, and thats a pretty darn responsible adult.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

quote:

ORIGINAL: PenetratingGaze

Thanks Casie, I just wonder if missturbation when visiting would rather have, when visiting, as a tour guide someone like Sicarus or Kaledorus if some idiot like Cho popped-up, or,  would she rather have someone around like, ohhh, I don't know... Meatcleaver? 

Alexi

Meatcleaver any day of the week.
I personally wouldnt hang around with anyone who shows an unhealthy interest in weapons so meatcleaver woulod be my choice.

Whats an unhealthy interest in weapons though?

I'd love to have a gun, and I see no reason why I shouldnt. As I've said countless times before, it would be useless in this country for murder (too many witnesses) and if I were hell bent on murder or a killing spree then five minutes in the town centre on a Saturday with one of my swords would be much more "fun". That in twenty years of owning a sword ( a real one) I havent killed anyone, says what about my potential as a gun owner I wonder?

As for Scotland and Wales as a whole - yes, safe and welcoming. Go to the wrong part of Glasgow or Wales with a Midlands accent though, and see the welcome you get. My ex and I spent a week in a Welsh speaking village on a holiday once, and it was not a welcoming place I can tell you. We also spent time in Kilmarnock (Glasgow overspill town, though with a long history) - they smashed my brother's car up there just because it was an English registration number.

E

quote:

but I don't see any practical suggestions being offered.

quote:

yet you presume that your solutions across the pond will work when we are facing different problems here?

quote:

Even that is enormous, compared to Special Operations teams.  If you're suggesting that your country is impotent as a military power in the world ... well, I think you're underselling yourself.  I have quite a lot of respect for your country's military capabilities.

quote:

that a nation's good behavior is not weighed on the same time scale as an individual's.