Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

Common Sense Tips


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion >> Common Sense Tips Page: [1] 2   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
Common Sense Tips - 5/1/2005 5:08:44 PM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline 		I received this in an email from a bdsm group that I belong to. I am posting it here because I think that most of it is just good common sense. I also see much of it as interesting fora for discussion. Take what you can use and discard the rest.
erin

Author's note:

I wrote it for a presentation I did at Leather Leadership
Conference. It is not copywrited in any way so feel free to
distribute it as much as you want to. Or steal from it and make it
better. You can even make it into a handout with your own group's
name on it. Just please help spread it around some.

Below is a cut and paste of the file in case you do not have Word.
However the Word file is formated nuch better.

Be safe.

Barton

=================


Internet Red Flags and Dating Tips for Kinky People

"Red flag" is a term to describe a personal trait or behavior that
is common in people who are harmful to their partners. When
getting to know someone online it is very important that you look
for these red flags. When you see these red flags slow down or
stop the relationship. Understand that none of these red flags
alone are definitely a sign of a bad person. They only tend to be
an indicator of a problem situation. The more you see these red
flags, the more you are at risk. Many of these red flags can apply
to both unhealthy Doms and subs.

These recommendations are to help you avoid getting into an abusive
relationship. If you think you or someone you know is in an
abusive relationship please visit NLA's Domestic Violence Project
web page at: http://www.nlaidvproject.us/

Red Flags:
Tries to separate you from your friends, family or BDSM community. Avoids talking about personal details.
Gets mad when you ask or quickly ends the conversation or answers
questions with questions.
Has no BDSM references or friends you can talk to.
Gets angry when you ask for references or ask around about them. Is inconsistent with details about themselves.
Does not give you their home and work phone number.
Only communicates with you at strange hours and gets mad if you try to contact them at other times.
Criticizes the BDSM community and refuses to participate, especially if they never were part of it.
Consistently breaks promises.
Always finds excuses for not meeting.
Always puts blame on others for things going wrong.
Does not take personal responsibility.
Has bad relationships with most or all of their family members. Pressures you into doing things you do not want to do.
Does not respect your limits, negotiations or contracts.
Pushes you into a D/s relationship too fast.
Falls in love with you way too fast and swears undying love before even meeting you.
Hides behind their D/s authority and says that their authority should not be questioned.
Tries to make you feel guilty for not being good enough.
Says that you are not a "True" sub.
Loses control of their emotions in arguments and regresses to yelling, name-calling and blame.
Puts you down in front of other people.
Turns instantly on their friends, going from best friend to arch enemy at the drop of a hat.
Treats you lovingly and respectfully one day and then harshly and accusingly the next.
Goes to great lengths to get revenge on people.
Lies or withholds information.
Cheats on you or is overly jealous.
Will not discuss what your possible future relationship could be like.
Tries to keep you in the dark about what might happen next in the relationship.
Does not respect your feelings, rights, or opinions.
Belittles your ideas.
Blames you for your hurt feelings.
Abuses alcohol or other drugs.
Is constantly asking for large amounts of money from you or others. Threatens suicide or other forms of self-harm.
Deliberately saying or doing things that result in getting themselves seriously hurt.
Monitors your communications (emails, phone calls, chats) with others.
Only interacts with you in a kinky or sexual manner as if role-playing. Will not have normal everyday vanilla conversations.
Never shows you their human side.
Is emotionless.
Hides their vulnerability behind their D/s role.
Has multiple online identities for interacting with the same communities. D
isappears from communication for days or weeks at a time without explanation.
Is rude to public servants such as waitresses, cashiers and janitors. Never says thank you, excuse me or I am sorry to anyone.



Safe Dating and Correspondence Tips

Before meeting:
Do not give out personal information to strangers. This includes your name, phone number, address, place of work or email addresses you use for other purposes. Get a P.O.Box if you need to get mail from them.
Do not send money to your online interest. There are online users that earn a living by faking love and pretending to run into hard times. When you do make telephone calls, make sure your phone blocks caller ID or call from a public phone. Do not call collect. Your number will
appear on their bill.
Exchange multiple recent nonsexual photographs to avoid embarrassment and hurt feelings.
Get a background check before meeting. There are several services that
will do this through the Internet.
Make it clear you are not going to engage in any BDSM activity on the initial dates.

During the meeting:
Meet in public places, preferably with a friend. Do not let your date pressure you into going somewhere else even if the date is going fine.
Try to make your first date a daytime event.
Drive yourself to and from the meeting place. Relying on them for transportation can put you in an unsafe position.
Establish a safety net complete with safe calls and details on your date. Tell your safety net your date's information, where you went and what to do in case you do not make your safe calls. Make sure your date knows you have a safety net set up. It is a great deterrent.
Bring along a cell phone on your date and do not become separated from it.
Do not drink alcohol on your date or leave your drink unattended.
Never engage in bondage during your initial BDSM sessions.
Do not leave your wallet or purse unattended. Your date may dig
through them to find out information you do not want them to
know.
If you are traveling to the meeting, do not let them meet you at the airport or bus station. Use cabs or rental cars for going to and from the public meeting place. Do not stay with them or let them make arrangements for you. Do not let them know where you are staying.

Be aware that safe words, safe calls, contracts, negotiations or
gut instincts will NOT fully protect you from a real criminal.
Take your time and be sure what you are getting into. Criminals
have less patience for difficult targets.

This is NOT copyrighted material. Please copy and distribute
freely.


_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Common Sense Tips - 5/1/2005 6:32:15 PM   
kc692


Posts: 3701
Joined: 3/24/2005
Status: offline 		Thank you mistoferin. I just placed this on a more vanilla site, adult friend finders. I am a member on there, and happened to look for the first time on the topic boards in the bdsm groups. I noticed that quite a few seemed to be newbies, even to the asking of what the meaning of BDSM was. I don't say that to mock them, I say that to illustrate how important this type of post was to that group in particular. They do not need to blindly meet others experienced in the D/s lifestyle, and trust them wholeheartedly because of that experience. This might at least ope their eyes to the necessity of safety.

(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: Common Sense Tips - 5/2/2005 12:51:05 AM   
GoddessDustyGold


Posts: 2822
Joined: 4/11/2004
From: Arizona
Status: offline 		This is a relly goodlist of Do's and Don'ts. I will be putting it onto My website which I am updating at this time.
Thanks!

_____________________________

Dusty
They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety
B Franklin
Don't blame Me ~ I didn't vote for either of them
The Hidden Kingdom


(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: Common Sense Tips - 5/2/2005 1:37:14 AM   
FelinePersuasion


Posts: 4792
Joined: 11/20/2004
Status: offline 		Most email groups won't let you pass a email subject on with out explicit permission, and some of them have confidentiality clauses where nothing posted is supposed to go out at all. I would be weary about that unless it says right out ike it does to feel free to pass it on but it's a neat post, there's a woefull lack of commonsense lately in some people:P

< Message edited by FelinePersuasion -- 5/2/2005 1:40:00 AM >

(in reply to GoddessDustyGold)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: Common Sense Tips - 5/2/2005 4:42:04 AM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline 		If you read to the bottom, it says:
quote:

This is NOT copyrighted material. Please copy and distribute
freely.


Oh and erin, thanks for sharing. I'm reading all this and saying "uh huh, common sense!" I guess sometimes we need to be reminded of it.

- LA

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to FelinePersuasion)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: Common Sense Tips - 5/2/2005 5:12:30 AM   
Oumae


Posts: 911
Joined: 1/4/2005
Status: offline 		Some good common sense advice.

I'd like to pick out a contradiction in it and see what others feel.... and I'm not meaning to be picky most advice has contradictions

Red Flags:
Does not give you their home and work phone number.

Safe Dating and Correspondence Tips
Before meeting:
Do not give out personal information to strangers. This includes your name, phone number, address, place of work or email addresses you use for other purposes.

Now I know it can be argued that the Red Flag means that if after time they dont give you a number etc etc but it is something I have come across... People being distrusting of someone who wont give their real name and number after chatting on line once or meeting once. I personally am cautious... I prefer to meet in public places a few times and tho will give my real first name I am not always happy to give my surname or my address until I have a good feel for the other person or a reference from someone I know and trust. In saying this I dont expect them to do any different than I am. I am honest about reservations if I have them and expect the same back ( as in I wont lie and give them a false name etc).
Trying not to make generalisations but do others find that there is sometimes one rule for women...yes it is ok for them to be more cautious... and another for men... that they should tell all?

Oumae

_____________________________

Is cuma le fear na mbrog ca leagann se a chos.
( The man with the boots does not mind where he places his foot)

(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: Common Sense Tips - 5/2/2005 5:38:09 AM   
EmeraldSlave2


Posts: 3645
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

Internet Red Flags and Dating Tips for Kinky People
Does not give you their home and work phone number.

quote:


Do not give out personal information to strangers. This includes your name, phone number, address, place of work or email addresses you use for other purposes. Get a P.O.Box if you need to get mail from them.

This is the only real contradiction I see here, as he qualified his statements pretty well as "don't take this as gospel."

But if a red flag is not giving personal info, and then he says you shouldn't given personal info...where does that leave a person?

Get the info you feel comfortable getting, and get information that is RELEVANT to your purpose. And never ask for information that you aren't willing to share yourself.


(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Common Sense Tips - 5/2/2005 8:42:27 AM   
kc692


Posts: 3701
Joined: 3/24/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

If you read to the bottom, it says:
quote:

This is NOT copyrighted material. Please copy and distribute
freely.


Oh and erin, thanks for sharing. I'm reading all this and saying "uh huh, common sense!" I guess sometimes we need to be reminded of it.

- LA


I am glad it's not. As I said, I took that comment at face value, and passed it on. reading some of the other boards on the other site gave me pause, seeing newcomers thinking the lifestyle is a fun, new diversion, and although not everyone lives it 24/7 (myself included), heaven forbid they didn't get a piece like this to read, and think that everyone in the lifestyle is "playing", that everyone is harmless, and would never think of a possible problem with participating in bondage in a first meet that results in a session, and leaving themselves helpless...

(in reply to LadyAngelika)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Common Sense Tips - 5/2/2005 10:16:56 AM   
perverseangelic


Posts: 2625
Joined: 2/2/2004
From: Davis, Ca
Status: offline 		I've read through these a couple times and several of them just -bug- me.

For example


Has bad relationships with most or all of their family members

Maybe it's because my family is insane, but this is not a red flag for me, and can often be a huge green flag. That is, if someone is aware enough to be able to break with their family because it is an unhealthy situation, I think that says volumes about the person.

yeah, I understand what it's trying to get accross, but the concept bugs me none the less.


Criticizes the BDSM community and refuses to participate, especially if they never were part of it.

Has no BDSM references or friends you can talk to.

Again, I understand the why's and wherefors of this, but I still disagree with it. Some people just plain aren't into the "community." My partner doesn't really get the point of a community. It isn't something that works for him, nor something that he's into.

He critizes the community in some ways, because it isn't something he needs. He doesn't badmouth people, but he does make gentle fun of people with the need to be emersed in a larger group (myself included). I don't think this is a bad thing, nor a red flag. It just depends a lot on their reasoning.

When we find other partners, we have no bdsm references. (well, we didnt' untill VERY recently). New people often will -not- have BDSM reference. Neither will individuals moving from monogamy to non-monogamy. Again, not a bad thing.


Monitors your communications (emails, phone calls, chats) with others.

If this is before you're in a realtionship, well, ok, but once you're in a relationship...isn't that kinda part of power exchange?


I know I'm overly simplyfying, and I know these are just general tips. I dunno....oddly, these tips set of my alarm bells in that they're geared very much toward one type of BDSM, and work against people playing with a different type.

_____________________________

~in the begining it is always dark~

(in reply to kc692)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Common Sense Tips - 5/2/2005 3:08:40 PM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: EmeraldSlave2

quote:

Internet Red Flags and Dating Tips for Kinky People
Does not give you their home and work phone number.

quote:


Do not give out personal information to strangers. This includes your name, phone number, address, place of work or email addresses you use for other purposes. Get a P.O.Box if you need to get mail from them.

This is the only real contradiction I see here, as he qualified his statements pretty well as "don't take this as gospel."

But if a red flag is not giving personal info, and then he says you shouldn't given personal info...where does that leave a person?

Get the info you feel comfortable getting, and get information that is RELEVANT to your purpose. And never ask for information that you aren't willing to share yourself.


Well in principle I agree with you EmeraldSlave, but in practice, I don't do that. And I'll explain why...

I am a single woman who lives alone. I don't give my phone number, last name or any other information that would permit someone to trace me until I meet them face to face. I do however request to speak on the phone with someone before we meet. 99.9% of the time, the man in question will give me his phone number and I will *67 (in Canada, this is number block) and call him. I talk on average 20 minutes and then decide whether or not we will meet. 99.9% of the time, the man is completely fine with the phone number exchange being one sided until we meet.

I have however never demanded to talk on the phone before a meeting. I have never asked a woman to give me her phone number neither (though some have volunteered). I have however chatted with them. Though I have to say, that no phone call significantly lowers the odds of us meeting.

Do I have a double standard? Yup.
Do I have the upper hand? Yup.
Is it fair? Nope.
Am I going to change the way I operate? Nope.

But in the end, these are rules by which I play. At least I'm upfront and honest about it.

- LA

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to EmeraldSlave2)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Common Sense Tips - 5/2/2005 3:33:09 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		MORE RED FLAGS

1--SENDS YOU A PICK THAT YOUVE SEEN SOMEWHERE ON THE INTERNET BEFOR
2--GIVES YOU A PHONE NUMBER THAT DOSENT WORK OR IS A FAX LINE OR SOMETHING
3--AKSES TO MEET YOU AND THEN DOSENT SHOW UP
4--PROFILE SAYS ATACHED AND WHEN YOU ASK ABOUT IT THEY SAY REALLY THAT MUST HAVE BEEN A MISTAKE

(in reply to EmeraldSlave2)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Common Sense Tips - 5/2/2005 3:35:23 PM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline 		Another red flag - types all in caps ;)

- LA

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to Lordandmaster)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Common Sense Tips - 5/2/2005 5:58:55 PM   
ScooterTrash


Posts: 1407
Joined: 1/24/2005
From: Indiana
Status: offline 		Good post erin and good advice. I think if those who taking exception with parts of the list, try to take it in context as a general list, sure some of the items may not apply in all cases (such as if they don't wish to be in a local community due to animosity concerns), but for the most part I would say this is a fairly inclusive.


_____________________________

Formal symbolic representation of qualitative entities is doomed to its rightful place of minor significance in a world where flowers and beautiful women abound.
-Albert Einstein

(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Common Sense Tips - 5/2/2005 6:05:45 PM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

I think if those who taking exception with parts of the list, try to take it in context as a general list, sure some of the items may not apply in all cases (such as if they don't wish to be in a local community due to animosity concerns), but for the most part I would say this is a fairly inclusive.


I think those taking exception with part of the list are simply discussing, which is what we are here to do :) They are following erin's advice, taking what we want and discarding the rest.

I agree that the list is fairly inclusive. That is exactly why it has contradictions; there are so many variables.

It's great to point out the contradictions and see how they can signals can be perceived. I learn a lot from other people's perspectives, which is why I check in here regularly.

- LA

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to ScooterTrash)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Common Sense Tips - 5/2/2005 6:55:04 PM   
ScooterTrash


Posts: 1407
Joined: 1/24/2005
From: Indiana
Status: offline 		NODZ..I agree, is what I meant, maybe I said it wrong...lol

_____________________________

Formal symbolic representation of qualitative entities is doomed to its rightful place of minor significance in a world where flowers and beautiful women abound.
-Albert Einstein

(in reply to LadyAngelika)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Common Sense Tips - 5/2/2005 6:57:53 PM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ScooterTrash
NODZ..I agree, is what I meant, maybe I said it wrong...lol


No, you didn't say it wrong. You just said it from your perspective ;)

- LA

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to ScooterTrash)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Common Sense Tips - 5/3/2005 12:01:00 AM   
harmony3709


Posts: 292
Joined: 11/15/2004
Status: offline 		I think it's a great list, erin, and thanks for posting it. Although I agree that to some, a few things may sound contradictory, but especially for someone new to the lifestyle or to meeting in r/t, it is very thorough and someone reading it may have thought of some of them, but may gain some very useful information from other tips that had not occurred to them.

Sometimes even a very intelligent person may not think of or be aware of what to some may be the obvious. It never hurts to read something that may enlighten you a bit.

Be well and play safe,

harmony

(in reply to LadyAngelika)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Common Sense Tips - 5/3/2005 5:48:13 AM   
EmeraldSlave2


Posts: 3645
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika
But in the end, these are rules by which I play. At least I'm upfront and honest about it.

- LA


Absolutely!

(in reply to LadyAngelika)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Common Sense Tips - 5/3/2005 8:49:02 AM   
Oumae


Posts: 911
Joined: 1/4/2005
Status: offline 		I also was not having a go or being critical I was discussing what I read from a good list.

Oumae

_____________________________

Is cuma le fear na mbrog ca leagann se a chos.
( The man with the boots does not mind where he places his foot)

(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Common Sense Tips - 5/3/2005 10:57:10 AM   
Padriag


Posts: 2633
Joined: 3/30/2005
Status: offline 		Just a few points based on personal experience

Has no BDSM references or friends you can talk to.

Fairly useless online in many cases. In chat rooms a person might be very popular in the chat room an still be trouble... or quiet with few online friends and turn out ot be a gem. As for real life references... how do you know who you are talking to? Is the person giving a reference reliable? References really only work in local groups offline. Online I've found them to be next to useless. What I do find helpful is to watch how that person behaves online and how the interact with others.


Does not give you their home and work phone number.

While I will give you my home number fairly readily, I do not give out my work number. Why does anyone need the work number of a person you are speaking with online? On the flip side, I can see this as a way for the wrong kind of person to cause you a lot of trouble. Do you really want some nutcase you met online calling your work and talking to your boss?


Always finds excuses for not meeting.

Good rule, to which I add the "three strikes" rule. Break three dates to meet with me an you're out. I'll give someone three chances, after that I just write them off.


Loses control of their emotions in arguments and regresses to yelling, name-calling and blame.

While true, it should not be confused with someone simply having an argument with you or getting angry. I've met too many submissives who think a dom should never get angry at all. News flash, we're people to, we have emotions too and that includes sometimes being mad. The key difference is that a good dominant doesn't let that anger control them.


Criticizes the BDSM community and refuses to participate, especially if they never were part of it.

This is just wrong. First, not everyone is a joiner who wants to be part of the "community". Many have no desire to go to munches, play parties, etc. There is nothing wrong with that. Second, to call the BDSM community a "community" is a misnomber. It would be more accurate to say we are a loose confederation of people with vaguely similar interests. We are more a collection of different small communities than a single large one. And yes, some of us do criticize parts of it, and with good reason.


Hides their vulnerability behind their D/s role.

Kind of a catch 22 for many dominants, since many submissives think we are "weak" if we show any vulnerabilities. I agree that is unhealthy, but its not a simple problem to resolve.


Get a background check before meeting. There are several services that will do this through the Internet.

This is something else I think is not of much use. First, it makes you come across as seeming very susipicious and untrusting, not exactly conducive to a romantic relationship. Second, its not a guarantee of anything. I've agreed to this on a couple of occasions, I have a clean record. What that record will not tell you is that I also spent 7 years working in strip clubs and 6 years running with the Hell's Angels. Course if you just ask me I'll tell you (an just did). My point being is that a background check won't tell you anything about the person other than whether they have a criminal record. There is no substitute for getting to know a person well.


Do not leave your wallet or purse unattended. Your date may dig through them to find out information you do not want them to know.

Well golly, if they already have your work number, your home address, and have a background check on you... does that condom in my wallet really matter??? The problem I'm seeing with this advice is that is seems to have been written purely for submissive women, but not for dominants. The author apparently did not consider that what is good for the goose is also good for the gander. Which explains the apparent contradictions. If you read it as advice to the submissive to get a home and work number, yet later on the author advises submissives not to give out any personal information then the conflict in the advice disappears... leaving dominants in a very unfair position of being expected to life our lives as an open book while submissives get to hide who they are. No thanks, tried that, got lied to way too much.


If you are traveling to the meeting, do not let them meet you at the airport or bus station.

Strange advice to me. Most folks I know would expect me to meet them and would feel better if I did. I was also raised that it is rude not to do so.

_____________________________

Padriag

A stern discipline pervades all nature, which is a little cruel so that it may be very kind - Edmund Spencer

(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 20
Page:   [1] 2   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion >> Common Sense Tips Page: [1] 2   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.078