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Old Guard Women? - 4/29/2007 2:35:01 AM

servilecat

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I have met two women that have told me they were personally trained by Old Guard. i'm not sure what that means as i've read up on Old Guard and i must be missing something in the translation.
One was a lesbian and the other i believe is bi. One told me all about some of the training and because she was a woman, how especially mean they were to her at the 'training camp' for lack of a better word. She told me in detail about the graduation ceremony, etc. When did Old Guard become co-ed and where is the training facility?

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RE: Old Guard Women? - 4/29/2007 5:21:20 AM

MstrssPassion

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I know several women that practice what is best called "New Guard" because "Old Guard" was indeed a modality practiced by gay males of leather. Several of these lesbians are very male-identifying & to be around them you really pick up on a masculine energy.

Who is to say what they went through is anything like or completely the same as what these gay men developed decades ago.

I wouldn't worry so much about what someone calls something. If you like the sound of the training & wish to incorporate it into your own life & practices then try it out. If it sounds like something that causes you concern or something that would not intrigue you at all, stay away from it.

< Message edited by MstrssPassion -- 4/29/2007 5:33:01 AM >

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RE: Old Guard Women? - 4/29/2007 5:30:24 AM

sub4hire

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How old are they? 70's and 80's? If not...then they were not trained by old guard anything.
As you already know they are full of it just by your own research. You don't need anyone here
telling you the same thing you already know.
Perhap's they like the way the gay men used to have trust within their little circle. That does
not mean they were old guard trained.
Even the military men back then did not call themselves old guard or anything. They were just doing what
felt right at the time.
Trying to stay safe the same way we all are now in today's society.

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RE: Old Guard Women? - 4/29/2007 6:02:10 AM

velvetears

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Some links that might be helpful:

http://www.walp.dds.nl/makinghistoryfolder/timeline/timeline.html

http://www.butch-femme.com/portal/forums/showthread.php?t=282

http://duskpeterson.com/leatherculture/bibliography/index.htm

http://www.colors-of-leather.com/

http://www.leathernroses.com/generalbdsm/stanleyoldguard.htm

http://www.leathernroses.com/generalbdsm/missyoldguard.htm

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RE: Old Guard Women? - 4/29/2007 6:15:42 AM

Alumbrado

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'Old Guard' has become a term that means whatever the user intends it to mean... the original definition has been coopted

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RE: Old Guard Women? - 4/29/2007 6:38:41 AM

MstrssPassion

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I wouldn't go so far as to say people are full of it... they probably have there own very valid adaptation based on what info they have gathered & set up to be carried out & practiced by those they welcome into their group.

Same can be said of anyone out there practicing anything as a "named modality".

People talk about Victorian, Old Guard, Gorean, Old World, New Guard, Leather, Vampirism, ..... the list could go on & on. My point is that none of these modalities have pure practitioners. The reason for this is because adaptations have to be made in order for it to be experienced. Not one us us can say for sure what took place in a Victorian home because we all live in the 21st century. What we can do is read about what took place & adapt what we read about to our very modern practices. Same thing for the Goreans because with all their honor & ritual, they can't brew a vat of fresh Paga because earth doesn't grow this plant nor will they train a Sleen because the animal doesn't exist. So like I said... adaptations have to be made in order to emulate these modalities. In this regard, no one can ever claim to be a pure/real/true anything.

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RE: Old Guard Women? - 4/29/2007 7:16:46 AM

TigressFL

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A real life friend of mine has researched and studied the history of BDSM for years now and even built a website to help people with.....

Debunking the Myths

http://www.bdsmdebunkingthemyths.com/

Good Luck!

Tigress~FL

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RE: Old Guard Women? - 4/29/2007 8:54:21 AM

LuckyAlbatross

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RE: Old Guard Women? - 4/29/2007 9:07:30 AM

Padriag

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While there are groups who do have organized training regimens, and some of those probably can trace legitimate and direct connections to an "old guard" heritage... I still wouldn't pay it much attention. The reason is simple, none of use really knows what that means. Trained to do what? Qualified to do what? Experienced with what? Those are all open questions and until you have answers, despite claims of "old guard" training, you still don't really know anything about this person, how competent they may be, how reliable, etc. When I hear people laying claim to being Old Guard or some other such "heritage" I tend to get a little suspicious of them right away. People who feel a need to associate with such things may be trying to give themselves credibility they don't otherwise have. The easiest way for someone to really "prove" what they know how to do is by simply doing. Want to know how well someone can swing a whip before you play with them, ask them to demonstrate with some paper targets on a wall, etc. If someone claims they know how to do Shibari, ask them to show you with a doll and some string, someone who really knows how can. Ability talks... bull shit walks... simple.

It really doesn't matter who trained whom to do what. In most cases you can't verify that so as far as "proving" anything, its pretty much useless. These days my usual response to someone who claims to have been trained by anyone (groups, previous owners, etc.) is "That's nice, but what can you show me?" Its amazing how many it immediately shuts up.

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RE: Old Guard Women? - 4/29/2007 11:09:47 AM

Nosathro

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greetings

I have met a slave who told me she was also trained in the "Old Guard" method. I did not she had some knowledge of slave positions and protocals.

Be Well

Nosathro

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RE: Old Guard Women? - 4/29/2007 11:30:24 AM

Suleiman

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First off, "Old Guard" is as much of a buzzword as any of the other labels used in our "community" - what they mean may be different from what you mean or what you've read.

Out in SF, where I came of age, the L/B/G/Q contingent included a lot of co-ed parties with gentlemen who were considered Old Guard (in this context meaning pre-Stonewall), who would interact and play with woemn, and a lot of information was traded back and forth. I have never met a lesbian who claimed to be "old guard", but I would not exclude the possibility - but again, semantics is a tricky thing in the BDSM world.

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RE: Old Guard Women? - 4/29/2007 6:38:11 PM

elderrook

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LuckyAlbatross, you are truly the index of the CollarMe.Com forums. How do you find the time to keep track of the many threads that go on within this site?

rook

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