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Help... I a sub with a 50%vanilla wife - 4/29/2007 7:05:37 PM   
leatherbelt26


Posts: 3
Joined: 4/20/2007
Status: offline 		Lesbian married to a woman. I am a pure Submissive. Truely in love with a beautiful dyke who is tall dark and handsom,& more than anything, completely trusting.....except she is a cass-a-nova. Too afraid to put me in pain/pleasure. What can I do to make her feel more comfortable? I have done all the things I thought would work. She just doesn't care about dominating me. How do I make her interested?
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RE: Help... I a sub with a 50%vanilla wife - 4/29/2007 7:08:21 PM   
temptressofsouls


Posts: 208
Joined: 3/29/2005
From: Toledo, OH
Status: offline 		You can lead a horse to water......

(in reply to leatherbelt26)
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RE: Help... I a sub with a 50%vanilla wife - 4/29/2007 7:28:06 PM   
SirMIkeSD


Posts: 613
Joined: 3/16/2007
From: San Diego, Ca
Status: offline 		I agree with temptressofsouls, you can teach anyone how to use/do a __________ (insert fun toy/play, etc here).  But they have to want to use it, otherwise it's like high school spanish.

Mike


(in reply to temptressofsouls)
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RE: Help... I a sub with a 50%vanilla wife - 4/30/2007 2:54:27 AM   
Focus50


Posts: 3962
Joined: 12/28/2004
From: Newcastle, Australia
Status: offline 		The same way you'd make a hetero into a lesbian - if the necessary "wiring" didn't come as standard equipment, you can't retro fit it later! 
 
Like you said, you tried to get her interested and now it's time to face facts - domination ain't her need.  Sorry about that but welcome to the Forums anyway....
 
Focus.

(in reply to leatherbelt26)
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RE: Help... I a sub with a 50%vanilla wife - 4/30/2007 8:16:24 AM   
Kinkypupper


Posts: 713
Joined: 9/26/2004
From: Portland oregon
Status: offline 		Time to move on :-(..

_____________________________

Phil Moulton
A Sensual Touch
Locopony Racing
Portland Oregon

(in reply to leatherbelt26)
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RE: Help... I a sub with a 50%vanilla wife - 4/30/2007 6:19:21 PM   
mp072004


Posts: 381
Joined: 12/22/2005
Status: offline 		There are a couple of confusing parts of your message. Describing your wife as "50% vanilla" is odd--if she's half vanilla, and the other half is kinky, then it seems like you might have a good situation. It might make perfect sense in your head, but it could do with explanation.

Also, if your wife is afraid of giving you pleasure, it seems strange to describe her as a casanova. Casanova was known for being a rather amorous sort and is somewhat of an icon of a great lover.

Assuming that you've brought up BDSM to her, presenting it in an alluring way, and dominating you doesn't strike her as fun, perhaps you could provide outside ways to induce her. Does she have a particular sexual activity that she enjoys a great deal? You could "exchange" indulging her favorite activity for her doing BDSM with you. You could offer non-sexual exchanges, too--you know what she likes, and what is a good way to persuade her to do things, better than I do. The key is to get over the idea that she'll want to top or dominate you because it is fun in its own right, and to start approaching this as a favor to you, to be reciprocated by you doing a favor for her. A compromise. [This assumes that she doesn't have a social or ethical objection--I've known, in the biblical sense and otherwise, some dykes who think BDSM is not only not to their taste, but wrong and socially irresponsible.]

If that fails, you could always try discussing non-monogamy.

(in reply to leatherbelt26)
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RE: Help... I a sub with a 50%vanilla wife - 4/30/2007 6:57:46 PM   
Aswad


Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kinkypupper

Time to move on :-(..


Why move on? First off, it could be that she can find such a side to herself. Second, if the relationship is otherwise good, why not give it a shot? Too many people back off from their chance at happiness when it turns out there's work involved. Unfortunately, there's always work involved, either in making it work, or in the heartache that results from not putting in that work.


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to Kinkypupper)
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RE: Help... I a sub with a 50%vanilla wife - 5/1/2007 7:08:45 AM   
LeatherBentOne


Posts: 469
Joined: 9/27/2005
Status: offline 		I'm wondering if she thinks BDSM is abusive.  If she does, you might introduce her to some print materials or take her to your local BDSM community to meet some real folks who indulge.  Be mindful that our society has been conditioned for decades to view BDSM as sick and violent.  Perhaps she needs to find out about mutual consent and why some crave to be dominated and/or have pain inflicted upon them.  I really think your best chance would be to educate yourself and your wife with some credible information and life experience.

But . . . remember to not seem like you are forcing BDSM down her throat if she says she's not interested, it may very well be that she is seeing BDSM as the general population does ~ sick and violent.  My advice would be to place articles magazine or internet articles around.  Also, if you don't have a printer, you can email them to her if you feel like she'd be receptive.  Sometimes, more indirect methods seem less intimidating.  You might add a note that youre sending this to her for her opinion on what she read; however, be sure not to be too pushy for an answer.  She may be thinking about what she read but not ready to voice an opinion on it.  Much less so, to act on it right away.

Good luck to you and feel free to contact me if there is any way you think I might guide you on your journey.

LBO

(in reply to Aswad)
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RE: Help... I a sub with a 50%vanilla wife - 5/1/2007 11:03:35 AM   
Suleiman


Posts: 1127
Joined: 9/9/2004
Status: offline 		Honey, let me tell you - sadly, tragically, for some folks, the pain thing just dosen't work. I love my wife dearly, and she loves me, but she can't do the pain thing either, and after twelve years, I can honestly say that her mind isn't going to change (We do play, and she adores bondage at this point, but whether giving or recieving, she can't get into sado-masochism).

If it's just unfamiliarity, see if you can coax her into attending a local munch or open play party with you - maybe if she gets a chance to interact with other folks, and see what it is you want from her, she'll relax enough to give it a try.

_____________________________

Think of my verbosity as a sort of litmus test for our relationship. I write in a manner identical to how I speak and how I think. If you can not cope with what I have written here, it is probably for the best if we go our separate ways.

(in reply to leatherbelt26)
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RE: Help... I a sub with a 50%vanilla wife - 5/2/2007 3:31:43 AM   
Celeste43


Posts: 3066
Joined: 2/4/2006
From: NYS
Status: offline 		You could respect her enough not to demand she domme's you. Because the more someone insists, the less the other person will be interested. If she occasionally gets the desire to top, your constant harping on her not doing enough, not doing it often enough, hard enough etc will turn her off totally. Nobody wants to be thought of as a fetish provider instead of being loved for themselves and being thought good enough just as they are.

(in reply to Suleiman)
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RE: Help... I a sub with a 50%vanilla wife - 5/2/2007 5:03:22 AM   
aldompdx


Posts: 538
Joined: 10/24/2004
Status: offline 		>You could respect her enough not to demand she domme's you.
I tend to agree. Imposing change is control, not submission/surrender.

What the above posters miss is this. The experience of submission or surrender is within yourself. Nobody "gives" it to you from outside, like an injection. Consistent with the requirement of consent in BDSM, it is your own choice to surrender. It is not up to your partner to compell you to surrender. If you can get past the formalities, to the substance of a polarized relationship, you will realize that for your partner to be comfortable with you the way you are, all you have to do is be yourself, and accept her the way she really is.

That is, it is up to you to surrender, rather than for your partner to control. Surrender imposes nothing upon another. The deepest surrender is of your own ego associations. With a transparent ego, through surrender, the light of the heart shines forth.

(in reply to Celeste43)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Help... I a sub with a 50%vanilla wife - 5/2/2007 5:34:46 AM   
Focus50


Posts: 3962
Joined: 12/28/2004
From: Newcastle, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: aldompdx

>You could respect her enough not to demand she domme's you.
I tend to agree. Imposing change is control, not submission/surrender.

What the above posters miss is this. The experience of submission or surrender is within yourself. Nobody "gives" it to you from outside, like an injection. Consistent with the requirement of consent in BDSM, it is your own choice to surrender. It is not up to your partner to compell you to surrender. If you can get past the formalities, to the substance of a polarized relationship, you will realize that for your partner to be comfortable with you the way you are, all you have to do is be yourself, and accept her the way she really is.

That is, it is up to you to surrender, rather than for your partner to control. Surrender imposes nothing upon another. The deepest surrender is of your own ego associations. With a transparent ego, through surrender, the light of the heart shines forth.

We miss what??
 
These Boards are regularly cluttered with posts from confused subs who have done nothing but serve and surrender etc to "lame-duck" doms whose only "dominance" is to accept that service obligation free.
 
What the OP is lacking from her partner is a D/s *dynamic* - where Dom and sub feed off each other's complementing qualities.  All the damned surrender and service in the World does NOT make up for the other's independent lack of dominance.
 
And as those who have done this r/l know, if the presence of a willing and complementing submissive can't fire your Dominant "genes", NOTHING will - because you don't have any!
 
Second time I've quoted you tonight - keep the condescending lectures coming....
 
Focus.

(in reply to aldompdx)
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RE: Help... I a sub with a 50%vanilla wife - 5/2/2007 5:53:35 AM   
LeatherBentOne


Posts: 469
Joined: 9/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Suleiman

Honey, let me tell you - sadly, tragically, for some folks, the pain thing just dosen't work. I love my wife dearly, and she loves me, but she can't do the pain thing either, and after twelve years, I can honestly say that her mind isn't going to change (We do play, and she adores bondage at this point, but whether giving or recieving, she can't get into sado-masochism).

If it's just unfamiliarity, see if you can coax her into attending a local munch or open play party with you - maybe if she gets a chance to interact with other folks, and see what it is you want from her, she'll relax enough to give it a try.


Thanks for telling me.  But I have seen people come around by receiving accurate written info on what the life is about and discussing what they read as a form of communication through discrediting the misinformation they've previously gathered.  Sorry, it didnt work for you and your wife, but that doesnt mean it cant and wont work for others. 

(in reply to Suleiman)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Help... I a sub with a 50%vanilla wife - 5/2/2007 6:03:46 AM   
LeatherBentOne


Posts: 469
Joined: 9/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: aldompdx

>You could respect her enough not to demand she domme's you.
I tend to agree. Imposing change is control, not submission/surrender.

What the above posters miss is this. The experience of submission or surrender is within yourself. Nobody "gives" it to you from outside, like an injection. Consistent with the requirement of consent in BDSM, it is your own choice to surrender. It is not up to your partner to compell you to surrender. If you can get past the formalities, to the substance of a polarized relationship, you will realize that for your partner to be comfortable with you the way you are, all you have to do is be yourself, and accept her the way she really is.

That is, it is up to you to surrender, rather than for your partner to control. Surrender imposes nothing upon another. The deepest surrender is of your own ego associations. With a transparent ego, through surrender, the light of the heart shines forth.


Domination has nothing to do with control.  Thats what they have control freaks for.  Domination is the part of the power exchange and without submission, domination doesnt exist, the same was without a Dominant, submission doesnt exist.  Yes, we can have the tendencies and act them out,independently because that is just who we are.  But, they mean nothing, independently other than to define us.  It's when Dominance and submission complement each other, that fulfillment is reached and all makes sense.

Think about it:  Why would a submissive want to and/or become fulfilled by subbing for themselves?  They receive nothing other than a form of expression of who they are, and Im sure they already know that, or why would they seek a Dominant?

Im with Focus on this one.

(in reply to aldompdx)
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RE: Help... I a sub with a 50%vanilla wife - 5/2/2007 10:21:58 AM   
aldompdx


Posts: 538
Joined: 10/24/2004
Status: offline 		Focus50, LeatherBentOne

The D/s dynamic exists wholly inside, as part of a person's subjective experience. The dynamic derives from the associations which our ego places on various forms of perception. How else could one person experience a pinch as pain, and another experience it as pleasure, or have different experiences of the exact same thing in different contexts at different times? The external form of the dynamic manifests from the inner associations, not the other way around. This is because you subjectively perceive within, and do not objectively perceive externally.

It is human nature to believe that fulfillment is received from an external object in whatever form. However, the proof is in the experience of fulfillment. The experiencer can only associate fulfillment to that which has already been processed by the senses, and has already formed a neural map in the brain. Sensation(cause) -> neural map(effect). Neural map(cause) -> associated fulfillment (effect). A sensation, without both the neural map and association with fulfillment, is a neutral experience.

>Domination has nothing to do with control.
Anyone care to share their experiences with an "out of control" dominant? For example, one who lacks the control to respect boundaries, limits, and safewords?

There is no such thing as "power exchange." That is just more BDSM protocol jargon, an inaccurate label. Personal power always resides within a person. One who lacks personal power cannot even make the choice to exchange anything. What is exchanged is authority to exercise personal power. The descriptive term would be "authority exchange." This is very well described by the ALI commentary in the law of agency.

> Im sure they already know that, or why would they seek a Dominant?
Again, as a manifestation of human nature, one seeks to "receive" a particular feeling from an external object. Having some awareness of one's natural "set point" along the continuum between the polarities of control and surrender, does not presumptively mean they have mastered all aspects of who they are.

One who is defined by that which they are not, lives in the negative rather than the positive of who they are. The premise that one polarity is nothing without the other indicates a form of psychological dependency, oftentimes co-dependency which is particularly common in submissives and BDSM slaves. Potential between polarities is relative. One who surrenders to a balanced or even slightly submissive person still has a difference in potential. There remains a 15volt difference between -3volts and -18volts. Could there be more potential, sure. Twice the potential can be achieved by finding a +12volt partner, or by yourself further surrendering to a -33volt level. Those who advocate a world of absolutes may disagree. Nonetheless, that does not negate the perspective of those who recognize the relative nature of the control/surrender polarity.

There are many who have engaged in inward exploration, and resonate with the "zen" of my words. I accept that there are also those who may adhere to the premise that all subjective experience is caused exclusively by external stimuli, and thus, may be an objectified effect.

< Message edited by aldompdx -- 5/2/2007 11:04:10 AM >

(in reply to LeatherBentOne)
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RE: Help... I a sub with a 50%vanilla wife - 5/2/2007 6:38:01 PM   
Celeste43


Posts: 3066
Joined: 2/4/2006
From: NYS
Status: offline 		Sorry, Focus is right, like always. You can't give control to someone who will not take it. You cannot submit in a vacuum. I can crawl around all I want but if my partner is appalled by my not being equal, then there is no D/s relationship going on. And remember, the op wants a D/s RELATIONSHIP, not how to do it all alone.

(in reply to aldompdx)
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RE: Help... I a sub with a 50%vanilla wife - 5/3/2007 3:45:05 AM   
Focus50


Posts: 3962
Joined: 12/28/2004
From: Newcastle, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: aldompdx

Focus50, LeatherBentOne

The D/s dynamic exists wholly inside, as part of a person's subjective experience.

Rot!  A dynamic is created when the energy of one combines with the energy of a complementing opposite to create a separate and uniquely greater energy that both desire yet neither can create individually.  You can love yourself but it doesn't compare to falling in love with another.  By your definition, masturbation is sexual intercourse....  Or sexual intercourse is masturbation with an "external object"?  lol
quote:

There is no such thing as "power exchange." That is just more BDSM protocol jargon, an inaccurate label. Personal power always resides within a person.

More rot!  It helps if you define what an individual's power is....  Within the lifestyle, I define it as the power of desirability - specifically what it is a submissive has to attract my attention that the average attractive vanilla does not.  While you're correct that her desirability (or power) may well lie wholly within her, it has no value to her personally until a separate individual ("external object"?) desires it - thus empowering her.  When that disirability is mutual, a "power exchange" is anything but jargon or labels!
 
But I believe you've already said that in contradicting yourself.
Here tis:
quote:

What is exchanged is authority to exercise personal power.

When compared with this previous absolute:
quote:

There is no such thing as "power exchange."

Kinda makes you the king of splitting hairs - at an atomic level....  For what, to exercise your IQ as you express yourself in needlessly complicated waffling jargon?  It's funny when Frasier does it but....
 
Focus. 

(in reply to aldompdx)
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RE: Help... I a sub with a 50%vanilla wife - 5/3/2007 3:53:52 AM   
LeatherBentOne


Posts: 469
Joined: 9/27/2005
Status: offline 		Again, agrees with Focus.

(in reply to Focus50)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Help... I a sub with a 50%vanilla wife - 5/3/2007 8:53:07 AM   
aldompdx


Posts: 538
Joined: 10/24/2004
Status: offline 		Focus,
I accept that you have a particular perspective, and do not call it rotten. It is simply different than mine. But then, that tends to demonstrate the difference between a relative viewpoint, and an absolute viewpoint.

Some people accept and adapt to the way the world really is now. Others are compelled to reform the world in their image. I prefer the harmony of the former, to the dissonance of the latter.

(in reply to LeatherBentOne)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Help... I a sub with a 50%vanilla wife - 5/4/2007 4:33:54 AM   
Focus50


Posts: 3962
Joined: 12/28/2004
From: Newcastle, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: aldompdx

Focus,
I accept that you have a particular perspective, and do not call it rotten. It is simply different than mine. But then, that tends to demonstrate the difference between a relative viewpoint, and an absolute viewpoint.

Some people accept and adapt to the way the world really is now. Others are compelled to reform the world in their image. I prefer the harmony of the former, to the dissonance of the latter.

I'm all for diverse opinion, said so many times.  And I'm not here for validation of my views or to intentionally make waves.  Obviously your views are at odds with mine but you're really not accepting or respecting conflicting opinion when you start your posts with a generalised "What the above posters miss is this" statement, are you? 
 
From what I've read from your posts here, your idea of adapting "to the way the world really is now" is to dehumanise and deny an outsider can have influence, worth and power beneficial and *desirable* to a mutual dynamic; that "a man IS an island" and that the dominant side of a D/s relationship is merely passively getting served by a submissive "external object".
 
I'm not big in the IQ dept but I'm nobody's fool.  I think that when intelligent people go to extraordinary lengths expressing what should be simple concepts in over-thought, flowery and ambiguous phraseology, even to the point of contradicting themselves, they're doing it both as egotistical self-promotion and to deflect from their basic lack of substance in their argument and r/l experience.  And talking down to us "dummies" as you do it will inevitably draw flak your way....
 
Focus.

(in reply to aldompdx)
Profile   Post #: 20
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