quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

MC - thank you.

The thing is, I thought that Afghanistan was the result of the invocation of the NATO treaty response - if one member is attacked, then it is considered an attack on all, and that 9/11 triggered that invocation. That being the case, there is simply no excuse for other NATO members not contributing properly, surely? Regardless of political leanings of any member's government at the time, it is an ongoing commitment that must be met, should one wish to derive the benefits?

E

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

Afghan Infant Mortality Declines

KABUL, Afghanistan, April 26 — Infant mortality has dropped by 18 percent in Afghanistan, one of the first real signs of recovery for the country five years after the fall of the Taliban regime, health officials said Thursday.

...

The number of children who die before their first birthday has dropped to 135 per 1,000 in 2006 from 165 per 1,000 live births in 2001, according to a countrywide survey by Johns Hopkins University, he said.

That represents a drop of 18 percent, and means that 40,000 to 50,000 fewer infants are dying now than in the Taliban era, Dr. Fatimi said. “Thanks be to God they are celebrating, laughing and smiling,” he said. “These infants are the future builders of our country.”

FirmKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: UtopianRanger

Don't you get tired of tryn' this hard?  I'm going to recommend that they strongly take a good look at you for Ken Mellmen's old job{In case the current guy can't deliver} - You're a hellva of ideologue.

With all the downtrodden, messed up people in this country, they wouldn't get a single penny outa me to curb their infant mortality rate.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nastgargoyle

The problem that has arisen in Afghanistan has developed becuase of a lack of infra-structure there. Yes the assualt was a NATO response to an attack on 911, and everyone cinced up their gunbelts to go get the Taliban outta Afghanistan. The actual combat and ground forces assualt went suprisingly well, a lot faster and with a lot fewer casualities than were actually projected.

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: UtopianRanger

Don't you get tired of tryn' this hard?  I'm going to recommend that they strongly take a good look at you for Ken Mellmen's old job{In case the current guy can't deliver} - You're a hellva of ideologue.

With all the downtrodden, messed up people in this country, they wouldn't get a single penny outa me to curb their infant mortality rate.

R,

I guess I'd ask you the same general question I asked Z.  What is it about posting a straight news story about a decreasing infant mortality rate in Afghanistan that makes me an "ideologue"?

FirmKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: UtopianRanger

It's not just this story....it's all of them. Every twist every turn, you're there to defend them, even when they're lying their asses off. The Tillman tragedy is a perfect example. That wasn't the military's fault; that came right down from this greedy, lying-ass administration.

But don't get me wrong....as a true fiscal conservative, I respect that you and few others like you, stick to your guns. You believe whatcha believe. Hey.....look at all the weenies out there that straddle the fence ; }

I guess I'm just surprised you haven't made the determination yet that both sides are full of crooks that need to be abandoned.

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

Likely, the same reason that Vendaval posts all of her negative stories. 

Isn't balance a good thing?

I find it pretty telling, that an article about the lowered child morality rate in Afghanistan could be considered "cryptic and incendiary"!  Why is that, do you think?

FirmKY

Isn't balance a good thing?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dtesmoac

European Army . France is as much a blocker as the UK, as France wants the European Army to follow only French foreign policy.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dtesmoac

Better medel would be for the Europeans to develope the logistics required for true home defence and for individual countries to support over seas comitments without relying upon NATO. In that way, there would not need to be a singl European Foriegn and Defence Policy, just a lease loan system for individual countries to go on overseas escapades without having to get all 27 countries to agree. But at the same time know that other European countries would pick up the "home commitments". 3 European Aircraft Carriers  UK -2  and France -1 would be sufficient......o isn't that what was announced recently when france decided to look at non nuclear options. European forces not designed for pitched battle just for peacekeeping and occasional peace enforcement missions.....  : )

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY
I've never missed an election since I was old enough to vote, but I sat the last one out, because I didn't see any difference in any of the candidates on my ballot.  I'm almost ashamed to admit it.
FirmKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dtesmoac

Actually this is unfair, the Germans don't see it that way, both France and Germany see Britain as the problem with its anti-European and pro-American foreign policy. Doesn't that illustate that it is what they want only if it is exactly the form they want... i.e. part of a European Foreign policy

No. Britain wanted to join the EU and then wanted the EU to change to its vision. If Britain didn't like the EU, why did it join?
 
Basically it was scared to be alone in Europe but is incapable of doing without its American security blanket.


France as on several occassions wanted Britain to cooperate in military R&D and procurement, never mind merging militaries but Britain has always refused and bought off the shelf American stuff. It's Britain that wants to be like America but wants the security blanket of Europe at the same time. Closer integration of European forces would be good. If this was done through NATO - inclusive of France then it would bring about a better balance on each side of the Atlantic. Britain and France have the 2nd and 3rd largest numbers of trops in foreign countries after the USA. The problem with European military is that it is wastefully producing small self cntained defence forces, but seems the alternative only as a European arm.
 
NATO is increasingly redundant even though Britain refuses to accept that fact. France and Germany has recognized for a long time that European and American interests are diverging, it is better to be realistic about it now than wait for America to pull the plug on NATO.
 

Continental Europeans have every right to be pissed off with Britain. Right? No they have the right to have an opinion, and to express that and if they wish to get an integrated Europe inclusive Britain to provide the very real and valid arguments to achieve it. Right to be pissed off is do as we tell you or else..... a style more asociated with another continet perhaps :)  lol  ...   !!!.
 
Britain was the late comer, not everyone else. Britain joined Europe, Europe didn't join Britain. If Britain argued its case in Europe I would have some sympathy with your view but it doesn't. It was Britain that broke ranks over Iraq, it is events that have proved Britain wrong but still Britain thinks it is always right.


Most Europeans don't want their military projecting power beyond Europe and to become a second America agree,

and NATO is pretty much redundant in Europe which is the problem. Disagree. NATO is an incredably effective mechanism for securing the defense of a large proprtion of the worlds democracies from conventional, nuclear, non conventianal and other threats. It also helps to prevent the member states from threatenting each other.

The EU does this effectively and it is the EU that has changed the face of Europe, not NATO.

On the whole Europeans don't mind peace keeping tasks but there is not the will to become a hard power in the world so the idea of having a navy the size of the US's is pretty irrelevent. This is key point. Europe should not have a US style military or structure. its key is the seperateness, disagrement, etc. Diplmacy can be levered from any or all of the member states. Haveing an incoherent foreign policy can be a strength, having multiple voting rights and seats at international  organisations is also a strength. The EU will not send an invasion force or major Battle force, but it needs to be able to send self suporting and replaceable Battle groups. At the moment to send such a force relies on NATO (US), equipment. France, Britain, Germany, etc individually will / can never justify these resources - non combat but exensive. Combined they can justify them , and still be able to operate seperately e.g. France in its x-colonies, Britain - in its.

Best bet would be for Britain to leave the EU, become a US satelite and let those that want a deepening Europe get on with it. Disagree. There needs to be a proper discussion within Europe of the future and to create a 2 speed system. UK should not be part of US, both EU and US will loose out. Britain actually, without realising it fulfills the same role for each. It whispers "thou art mortal" in their ears all the time. It is also not a military threat or economic threat to either. EU without UK looses significant net contributor, significant market, part of its Nuclear deterent, ability to provide support for peace keeping operations, alternative route of diplomacy to US. The US looses their "I second that" voice in international bodies. Specialist light infantry units. alternative route for diplomacy to EU. Someone to take some fo the flack from the French and Germans, culturally closer fit for European basis for business. Largest overseas investor in US.
 
The big question is what if anything the UK gets from the above............... mmm  perhaps one for another different thread.
 
I totally disagree with a two speed Europe which is really about Britain having its cake and eating it too. After more than thirty years of membership it is about time Britain decided whether it was in or out.
 
If Britain wasn't getting anything out the EU it would have left long ago. The EU will survive whether Britain is a member or not.
 
I would also recommend Brits living in Europe for a few years, they will find their democracy has a lot of catching up to do and that the French and Germans et al enjoy more democracy than they do.

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

I would also recommend Brits living in Europe for a few years, they will find their democracy has a lot of catching up to do and that the French and Germans et al enjoy more democracy than they do.