quote:

ORIGINAL: undergroundsea

quote:

ORIGINAL: pixelslave

Dave,
I think you missed the whole point of the responses to the thread "Posts you'd love to see from male subs" by asking what skills Femdoms would like to see in a sub instead of asking other subs what skills they felt they had to offer their Mistress.

I am not sold on the idea that these discussions have to occur within male subs. I think the inner workings that can thus show can come from questions posed to dommes, or to responses given to threads in general.

While hearing what skills other subs has value, I find hearing directly from dommes what skills they appreciate to be more interesting.

My two cents.

Cheers,

Sea

As submissives, at least in part, focusing on only what we find interesting, seems to me as though we're missing the point!  If an unattached submissive wants to find a dominant woman, then wouldn't it behoove him to focus his energies a bit more on what a potential Mistress for him finds interesting?  It seemed to come through loud & clear in a number of posts that women in this forum have wanted to learn what the men who participate here on CM had to offer them in the ways of skills and services.  They can always chime in with more of what they'd like to see from their subs in terms of skills they value, just as they're doing now. 

It seems to me that to overcome the "do me" sub reputation that the women of this forum seem to generally have of the male subs that are members here, letting them know what we do have to offer them would go a long way toward changing that view.  So rather than repeatedly asking them what they want, it would only seem appropriate to show that we've listen to those posts, and instead tell them what we know we have to offer and see how they respond!

quote:

ORIGINAL: pixelslave
Sea,
As submissives, at least in part, focusing on only what we find interesting, seems to me as though we're missing the point!  If an unattached submissive wants to find a dominant woman, then wouldn't it behoove him to focus his energies a bit more on what a potential Mistress for him finds interesting?

quote:

  It seemed to come through loud & clear in a number of posts that women in this forum have wanted to learn what the men who participate here on CM had to offer them in the ways of skills and services.  

<snip>

It seems to me that to overcome the "do me" sub reputation that the women of this forum seem to generally have of the male subs that are members here, letting them know what we do have to offer them would go a long way toward changing that view. 

quote:

ORIGINAL: pixelslave

quote:

ORIGINAL: undergroundsea

quote:

ORIGINAL: pixelslave

Dave,
I think you missed the whole point of the responses to the thread "Posts you'd love to see from male subs" by asking what skills Femdoms would like to see in a sub instead of asking other subs what skills they felt they had to offer their Mistress.

I am not sold on the idea that these discussions have to occur within male subs. I think the inner workings that can thus show can come from questions posed to dommes, or to responses given to threads in general.

While hearing what skills other subs has value, I find hearing directly from dommes what skills they appreciate to be more interesting.

My two cents.

Cheers,

Sea

The emphasis in Bold Italics quoted above was mine.
 
Sea,
As submissives, at least in part, focusing on only what we find interesting, seems to me as though we're missing the point!  If an unattached submissive wants to find a dominant woman, then wouldn't it behoove him to focus his energies a bit more on what a potential Mistress for him finds interesting?  It seemed to come through loud & clear in a number of posts that women in this forum have wanted to learn what the men who participate here on CM had to offer them in the ways of skills and services.  They can always chime in with more of what they'd like to see from their subs in terms of skills they value, just as they're doing now. 
 
It seems to me that to overcome the "do me" sub reputation that the women of this forum seem to generally have of the male subs that are members here, letting them know what we do have to offer them would go a long way toward changing that view.  So rather than repeatedly asking them what they want, it would only seem appropriate to show that we've listen to those posts, and instead tell them what we know we have to offer and see how they respond!
 
 - pixel

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

To the OP, this is where it comes down to where I see the difference in wanting to please One, rather than pleasing the masses.  More where particular O/ones match, rather than the ramdom jumping through hoops.  It may not have been the intent, but I see it as that old frame of reference that I have been known to use. 
 
Aside from the general standards (yes, I want the boy to serve, yes, I want him to submit, etc.)  I want him to be a good match for Me in particular.  One of the answers that caught My eye was strength in computer skills, which would be a definite bonus for Me.  Gardening is also up there, as I get to watch him work in the yard with his shirt off.  (Sue Me, I like eye candy.)  Another area of strength that is a good match for Me is sense of direction, as I like to travel, but I'm lousy at getting there.  I also hate to pack/unpact, so those areas are always ones that I have had My boys do for Me.
 
The point of all that rambling (I know it's rambling, it's early and the caffeine hasn't hit yet) is that I want the boy to have skills to match Me.  It's not all about the kink.  Those matches are important, too, but they aren't the end all, be all of everything.  What pixel said about the grocery shopping, carrying the bags, had a great point.  Personally, I must have at least ten posts on various boards about folding socks!  (For those late in the game, that's organizational skills, sort of.  Ok.  Maybe it's not funny, but I told you... it's early.)
 
What about skills like that?  Making Me laugh?  Or the desire to learn enough about Me to know what fits Me?  Those aren't really even skills, except maybe the skill of paying attention to detail.  How about listening skills?  There's really a wide way of looking at this particular question, so I don't really want to give too narrow minded of an answer.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Domin8tingUrDrmz

There are a lot of skills that I value.  I won't bother listing them all here, but, I will mention one 'skill' that is of particular importance to me.   

Most men have a very difficult time discussing their emotions, often they want to discuss their sensations or external feelings.  I want a man who is willing (if not already capable) of learning to discuss things on an emotional level (by this I do not mean that it has to be irrational - as men often associate emotional conversations).  I want to see growth through communication style.   I realize we are wired differently and this is often the reason why men are challenged in such ways.  However, I think it would do a man good to be able to communicate to women on such a level...it would create a balance and more understanding.  So, no matter how good a cook you are, or how good a masseuse you are, if you are not willing to explore emotional expression, I likely will not have much interest in you for very long.  Sure, I might let you cater some events, or come over for the occasional massage, but I won't give you the opportunity to know me on a more intimate level unless you are capable of learning what I want.

quote:

ORIGINAL: pixelslave
It seemed to come through loud & clear in a number of posts that women in this forum have wanted to learn what the men who participate here on CM had to offer them in the ways of skills and services. 

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ORIGINAL: AAkasha
One is talking to a femdom directly (and hearing what she values in skills; but this requires making HER do the work, so to speak)

quote:

 and the other is having "chatter" in range of a femdom so she may observe. Some subs never get to that one-on-one conversation (email or phone) to share their skillset.

quote:

You also have to realize that femdoms have been asked a million times "what do you enjoy" and "what do you value in a submissive"  (and generally it's ignored because the man is waiting for the kinky, sexy answers) that the conversation, when it's at that "get to know you/I don't know if I like you yet/who are you again?"

quote:

ORIGINAL:
1. Lawn care. Ten extra points if you can remind me what the hell these bushes in front of my houses are called.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kitte9
I was going to say firebush.

quote:

ORIGINAL: undergroundsea

quote:

ORIGINAL: pixelslave
It seemed to come through loud & clear in a number of posts that women in this forum have wanted to learn what the men who participate here on CM had to offer them in the ways of skills and services. 

I think these two threads have responses that cover broad ground and I don't see any one clear message.

Some posters discuss ideas they would like to see discussed in general. Some posters discuss information they would like to know about subs who approach them. Some responses discuss labor skills. Some responses discuss relationship skills.

My lack of connection is with a broad discussion of labor skills. Unless the relationship is a barter relationship or service relationship where one is seeking particular types of service, I think the question of labor skills is of secondary importance. I do not expect a potential partner for a broader, romantic D/s relationship to be interested in me because of my labor skills. I expect her to be interested in me for what I am as a person. And within that interest, I think that I am interested in service would be more important to her than details of what I can do specifically--the attitude matters more than the specific skills.

Its obvious you're having difficulty wrapping your arms around the concept of what we're discussing here.  It's not necessarily about "labor", at least not to me.  It's about what does the sub bring to the relationship beyond wanting the Mistress to do certain things to to him, or allow him to do certain things to or for her?  Just as when you meet a woman in any other setting, you may ask yourself what she may have to offer you in a relationship, the women of this forum would similarly also like to know what the men who post here would have to offer them as well.  Depending on the woman, and the type of relationship she's looking for, it could indeed be service, it could be companionship of a particular type, it could be skills that compliment her own, or an interest in sharing activities that match hers, plus many other things as well.  There are some, who will say they are only looking for the submissive element from a man in the D/s power exchange in order to exercise control.  As the saying goes, there will be different strokes for different folks.

The point I was trying to make was that the male subs here need to try and give the ladies the opportunity to get to know the men here and what they have to offer as human beings in whatever form they choose to share.  Discussions could easily move to "the other side" from there.  Until the male subs and the femdoms see each other as people who are unique, complimentary of each other by nature, and worthy of taking the time to get to know, and not just objects for their fantasies and use; the adversarial nature of some of the discussions will only continue when relationships could be forming and both sides could be connecting in a way they'd hopefully find would be mutually satisfying to them both.

So, rather than ask what the other wants, I was simply suggesting it might be more useful to try telling the dominant ladies what submissive males who hang around here have to offer and see if there is any interest or takers.  I hope this helps make more sense to you regarding what I've had to say on the subject.

A mutual exchange is indeed necessary at some point for a relationship to occur.  But, a dialogue must begin someplace first, preferably on neutral ground that isn't quite so sexually charged as the infamous one or two line "do me" fantasy post!  The latter is a very poor place for men to try and start.  

quote:

ORIGINAL: pixelslave

quote:

ORIGINAL: undergroundsea

quote:

ORIGINAL: pixelslave
It seemed to come through loud & clear in a number of posts that women in this forum have wanted to learn what the men who participate here on CM had to offer them in the ways of skills and services. 

I think these two threads have responses that cover broad ground and I don't see any one clear message.

Sea,
Its obvious you're having difficulty wrapping your arms around the concept of what we're discussing here.  It's not necessarily about "labor", at least not to me.  It's about what does the sub bring to the relationship beyond wanting the Mistress to do certain things to to him, or allow him to do certain things to or for her?  Just as when you meet a woman in any other setting, you may ask yourself what she may have to offer you in a relationship, the women of this forum would similarly also like to know what the men who post here would have to offer them as well.  Depending on the woman, and the type of relationship she's looking for, it could indeed be service, it could be companionship of a particular type, it could be skills that compliment her own, or an interest in sharing activities that match hers, plus many other things as well.  There are some, who will say they are only looking for the submissive element from a man in the D/s power exchange in order to exercise control.  As the saying goes, there will be different strokes for different folks.
 
The point I was trying to make was that the male subs here need to try and give the ladies the opportunity to get to know the men here and what they have to offer as human beings in whatever form they choose to share.  Discussions could easily move to "the other side" from there.  Until the male subs and the femdoms see each other as people who are unique, complimentary of each other by nature, and worthy of taking the time to get to know, and not just objects for their fantasies and use; the adversarial nature of some of the discussions will only continue when relationships could be forming and both sides could be connecting in a way they'd hopefully find would be mutually satisfying to them both.
 
So, rather than ask what the other wants, I was simply suggesting it might be more useful to try telling the dominant ladies what submissive males who hang around here have to offer and see if there is any interest or takers.  I hope this helps make more sense to you regarding what I've had to say on the subject.
 
A mutual exchange is indeed necessary at some point for a relationship to occur.  But, a dialogue must begin someplace first, preferably on neutral ground that isn't quite so sexually charged as the infamous one or two line "do me" fantasy post!  The latter is a very poor place for men to try and start.  
 
 - pixel

quote:

ORIGINAL: pixelslave
Sea,
Its obvious you're having difficulty wrapping your arms around the concept of what we're discussing here.

quote:

 Depending on the woman, and the type of relationship she's looking for, it could indeed be service, it could be companionship of a particular type, it could be skills that compliment her own, or an interest in sharing activities that match hers, plus many other things as well.  There are some, who will say they are only looking for the submissive element from a man in the D/s power exchange in order to exercise control.  As the saying goes, there will be different strokes for different folks.

quote:

ORIGINAL: undergroundsea

quote:

ORIGINAL: pixelslave
Sea,
Its obvious you're having difficulty wrapping your arms around the concept of what we're discussing here.

Pixel,

Since you often give advice intended to be helpful to others, I would like to return the favor. To me, your words above come across as presumptuous and as if you are talking down to me. I am here to call you on that. If you have heard similar feedback from others, you might examine your approach. If you don't want people to talk down to you, you might check yourself against doing the same.

After reading what I originally wrote and your response, I obviously owe you an apology Sea.  I'm truly sorry for offending you.  I did not intend to and as you say, I was presumptuous.  We all view things based on the experiences we've have in our life journeys and the paths we've travelled.  Yours is quite different than mine.  Thank you for reminding me of that.

quote:

ORIGINAL: undergroundsea
I am comfortable with my cognitive skills and those for reading comprehension. I do grasp what is being said. If I make a point and you do not understand it, it could also be because I did not adequately present my point, or that you simply disagree. It is not fair for you to state that the disagreement is because I am unable to grasp the matter.

There are point about which we indeed disagree.

I have a great deal of respect for you as a person, your intelligence, & the humor you often bring to this forum.  Apparently, I have missed where your points were presented in the form of why you felt one position should be taken over the other.  I did not see them as being in direct disagreement, but more as "ships passing in the night"; concepts that seemed to me to be missing each other, rather than being directly discussed and debated as being in opposition of each other. 

quote:

ORIGINAL: undergroundsea
You think this thread misses the point. I thinking it differs from specific comments (that subs should talk amongst themselves, or list their skills) but do not think it misses the broader spirit of the other thread.

In each case, I explain my reasoning. If my reasoning is unclear, let me know and I will elaborate. If you disagree, provide some substance to where you see my reasoning to be flawed and we will have a more constructive discussion.

As posting in the forum is open to all, I don't envision any thread ever being totally between male subs.  Instead, I would envision Dommes posting as well.  However, if the initial post were oriented to encourage subs to post about themselves, their interests, hobbies, talents, skills and such which they bring into a relationship with a Domme, I think it would be productive and encourage more enthusiastic and responsive dialogues between submissives and Dommes.  A good example is the thread we spoke of in which there were some side posts made such as the tips about pedicures, plumbing, gardening & such.  Those seemed to produce some positive exchanges that I'd expect would happen again if more threads on subs and their interests & skills were to occur.

quote:

ORIGINAL: undergroundsea

quote:

ORIGINAL: pixelslave
It's not necessarily about "labor", at least not to me.  It's about what does the sub bring to the relationship beyond wanting the Mistress to do certain things to to him, or allow him to do certain things to or for her?

 
While it can be mostly about service in some cases, I agree that in general it is about more. Your list of service skills in your first post here and in the other thread conveys a different emphasis than what you state above.

Perhaps that is your perception of my posts or the context in which they were written/read at that particular time.  I don't really know.  Threads, like conversations develop naturally over the course of time.  One can't dump everything in their mind at once in a meaningful and comprehensible manner.

quote:

ORIGINAL: undergroundsea
 

quote:

ORIGINAL: pixelslave
Depending on the woman, and the type of relationship she's looking for, it could indeed be service, it could be companionship of a particular type, it could be skills that compliment her own, or an interest in sharing activities that match hers, plus many other things as well.  There are some, who will say they are only looking for the submissive element from a man in the D/s power exchange in order to exercise control.  As the saying goes, there will be different strokes for different folks.

I am amused that after making the claim you do at the beginning of your post, you list some of the ideas I have presented in prior posts across the two threads relevant here.

If I've plagarized you in any way, that was surely not my intent!

quote:

ORIGINAL: undergroundsea

quote:

ORIGINAL: pixelslave
So, rather than ask what the other wants, I was simply suggesting it might be more useful to try telling the dominant ladies what submissive males who hang around here have to offer and see if there is any interest or takers.  I hope this helps make more sense to you regarding what I've had to say on the subject.

 
I see your intent is to be helpful in the text above and I thank you for it. I do understand your point. I have a different approach and one that fits my circumstances. I think I present traits I am most interested to present through my posts as it is, and in a manner that fits my current style and relationship objectives. If you would like to know more about my approach, I would be glad to clarify.

Cheers,

Sea

Clearly, you post what you're comfortable with; as is natural for all.  If you wish to share more of your philosophy on why you post in the manner you do, I'm confident the members here would be interested to learn more of whatever you wish to share of yourself or allow them to see.  The decision on what you wish to share is of course one that is entirely yours.  

In no way is what I'm about to say intended or meant to be taken as condescending.  I'd just like to say that it appears to me as though you wish people to see the unique personality within you that so often is full of the terriffic humor as I've observed here in your posts in the past.  That's one thing I'd think would greatly attract a woman whom you might possibly meet through having posted on the boards here on CM.  I'm confident there's much more you have to offer as well, some of which we've shared in posts here too.  How you wish to present that is entirely your choice.  The fact you are regularly posting here is a huge advantage over the masses of males, that are not utilizing in the least this totally free opportunity and means of making themselves highly visible to the Dommes on CM. 

I suspect part of the purpose behind Akasha's original thread was to look for ways to encourage the submissive men of CM to post in a manner that will allow the female dominants to see them in a way that could be of interest those who have been seeking but without success.  Ultimately, isn't that what it's all about, women and men coming together and having a meeting of minds?