Integration of Desires (Full Version)

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Araven -> Integration of Desires (4/30/2007 5:46:35 PM)

This is going to sound somewhat strange I suppose, and this is going to be a question posed to my fellow male subs, and the ladies that would know their subs or have helped their subs work through these issues:

On my journey exploring my submission, I've began to struggle with how to express sexual desires and how to remain submissive and not feel so guilty for letting these things desires arouse me. In many ways I'm also sexually inexperianced. In my mind, BDSM and sexuality go hand in hand. BDSM is an arousing thing for me and I'm a bit shy to admit that it turns me on. Even moreso, if I was to play, I think one of my bigger fears is to be vunerable, turned on, and sort of "exposed". Perhaps its my upbringing, but I'm always a little bit embarassed to be turned on from such things. How can one get past the feelings of shame, guilt, and embarassement at such acts? How do you other submissives with a similar problem handle it?

I've been talking with one particular friend of mine about the issue, and she's been very helpful. The best way I've found so far, is to know that through my own shame, and embarassement, that is it actually pleasing for my dominant to know that they are turning me on. For me.. submission was always about pleasing the other person. But recently it seems as if some get their pleasure from watching the twisted expressions of tortured pleasure on their subs? This was a total mind-job for me, a difficult concept to grasp.

So my question to you all: How do you other male subs incorperate your own sexuality and wants on the submissive level to your mistress? Do you push it aside? Try to hide it? And to the Mistresses: Do you get pleasure from knowing you are turning on your submissive? That he is aroused by the very acts you do? Or does his pleasure not matter so much as long as you are pleased?




earthycouple -> RE: Integration of Desires (4/30/2007 5:55:15 PM)

oh wow....I can't imagine not knowing what pleases my submissive.  It is of utmost importance that I know how and what pleases him.  If you have trouble expressing yourself verbally, might I suggest journaling?  I have used this many times before...my sub keeps a journal of feelings and I read it, make comments but what ever is in there is safe.  It is a place for him to get out his inner most thoughts with no worries of repercussion.

Honesty is first and foremost and if you hide your wants and needs you will eventually become bitter and alone.  That's no good for anyone.

D~



mons -> RE: Integration of Desires (5/1/2007 2:12:28 AM)

greetings

it is hard and all subs feel this the first time and sometimes many times again just go with it and keep speaking with you friend

good luck
mons



canupleaseme -> RE: Integration of Desires (5/1/2007 2:25:25 AM)

I would be so upset if I didnt know what turned my boy on.  I pride myself in my knowledge of him in that way, by taking the time to find out whats in his head.  He knows he must tell me of the things that he thinks about.  I love nothing more than to tease him then with that and if he is really lucky he might get it.
Bdsm and sexuality are very linked for me too.  I think I would find it hard to be aroused myself if I didnt know how what we were doing was affecting him.
I also get a lot of contol over him by playing with his sexual needs so our dynamic wouldnt work very well if he suppressed his own sexual feelings.  He will be the first to tell you though that while I encourage him telling me it all he doesnt always get to play.  He certainly isnt topping frm the bottom by revealing these things to me he just has great ideas too [:D]

I would find it very special if he was to tell me something that would make him so embarresed sexually to do [:D]

Some Dommes though will be the complete opposite.  There are a lot of people who practise domination without any sexual contact at all and will not want to know anything about your sexual feelings.  And thats fine for them too [:)]  Just make sure when your looking for your domme find one that goes which way you need. 



Domin8tingUrDrmz -> RE: Integration of Desires (5/1/2007 2:31:06 AM)

Knowing what a submissive enjoys helps me determine whether or not they are a good match for me.  I don't want a submissive to come across as though his desires are more important than mine; but I do want to know what his desires are.

For instance, I personally have no interest in sissified men.  In my opinion they appear either too feminine or too mixed with femininity and masculinity that it just confuses me.  I do not hold it against people who enjoy it, but, I do not.  I like my boys to look like boys.  So, if a sub type expresses such a desire, I would not belittle him for the desire, but I would know that he and I likely would not mesh.  However, if a sub expressed an interest in bondage, or strap-on play, well, then we have a commonality worth pursuing further to see if there are other commonalities.

So yes, I do take interest in finding out what a subby enjoys and yes, I also enjoy seeing the torment they endure while trying to express themselves when they find it taboo.



LadyPact -> RE: Integration of Desires (5/1/2007 2:45:08 AM)

Dominin8, I'm right there with you.  I use that "I like My boys to be boys" line Myself on a regular basis.  Since the feminization of boys is such a turn off for Me, I know the mix is bad to begin with.  It ranks right up there in the top five reasons for auto rejection.
 
As to the OP, I have to admit, I suddenly feel old fashioned.  Maybe things have changed so much that some of Us never ask these kinds of questions to Our boys?  I highly doubt it, but for some reason, the original idea struck Me this way.  I want to know what makes them tick.  Always have.  It seems to be the difference between a boy being Mine rather than any other submissive.  As pleasing as it is for one to surrender the body, it is a greater achievement to have access to the mind.



MaamJay -> RE: Integration of Desires (5/1/2007 3:27:25 AM)

I'm with the other Dommes here, I want to know what turns My boys on! And I LOVE watching them get turned on, watching them get hard, start dripping and then struggle with not getting TOO turned on and cumming without permission! But being the kind heart that I am, usually they get to cum at the end of the scene as their reward.

The only time I encountered major embarrassment was actually with My first ever real life sub. W/we'd "rehearsed" online so I really didn't expect any problem. After initial greetings, I told him to strip and sat back to watch. All went well till he got to the boxers (which he later got into trouble for as I hate those damn things and told him not to wear them LOL!). Suddenly he went all red and embarrassed and just stood there shuffling. "Take them off!" "i can't Maam, i just can't!" Oh great I'm thinking, first time with a sub and I can't even get him naked LOL! So, thinking fast, I told him to come over to Me, kneel and do some foot worship, which I knew he was looking forward to. he complied eagerly ... and after a few minutes I leaned down and said "I think W/we can dispense with these now" and pulled his boxers off. he was quite happy by then! Later, in the aftercare time, I asked what had been his problem. "Oh Maam, i was so embarrassed, i wasn't hard!" It was hard not to laugh, but I gently explained I didn't expect him to get hard the second he walked in the door ... and that a lot of My pleasure was from watching him GROW hard with what I was doing to him! All was well from then on, but I've never forgotten the lesson I learned. I usually tell intending subs that story and urge them to express their feelings to Me ... after all, I can't be very effective if I don't know what's going on!

Maam Jay



MzMia -> RE: Integration of Desires (5/9/2007 9:25:51 PM)

Since I seek a LTR, his desires are important to me.
I am not saying I will cater to his desires, but his desires are important to me.
Good service=good rewards.
I also want to feel that I sexually turn my submissive ON!
[;)]



Aimtoplease101 -> RE: Integration of Desires (5/9/2007 10:23:48 PM)

I know there seems to be a premium on "service without strings" subs, but personally the D/s dynamic just doesn't work for me unless I'm also attracted to and turned on by my Domme. I think one of the most exciting dynamics is the Domme's ability to push those buttons, and exploit and manipulate (in a good way, of course!) the sub's desire for her.

A good example is consensual chastity. The Domme and sub might have an arrangement in which the sub is kept in a chastity device, but starts with "credits" or privileges to one release each week. The weekly release privilege can be lost for bad behavior or, more diabolically, can be bargained away. Here, tease and denial, and fetish reinforcement, can be used very effectively by the Domme. The Domme may, for example, tease the sub mercilessly with her feet, breasts, or ass, and make him beg for the privilege of worshipping her. She may grant the privilege-- but at a price. An extra day of chastity for every 3 licks, or every toe sucked, or for each stroke of his penis she deigns to provide him. The sub finds himself "consensually" trading away any semblence of sexual freedom he might have thought he had. But it all starts with being sexually turned on by his Domme.

Regards, ATP



Enyo -> RE: Integration of Desires (5/10/2007 6:11:30 AM)

quote:


Knowing what a submissive enjoys helps me determine whether or not they are a good match for me.  I don't want a submissive to come across as though his desires are more important than mine; but I do want to know what his desires are.


This is my thought exactly.  I love seeing a sub become aroused, it's a part of the experience.  If I had a sub who didn't become aroused (barring medical issues or something specific) or seem especially interested, I would quickly just to the conclusion that there were issues in the relationship and subsequently the relationship would need to be re-evaluated and we would need to have a long talk. 



Enyo -> RE: Integration of Desires (5/10/2007 6:13:13 AM)

PS.  Granted, because I know a subs desires doesn't mean that is the only type of play we are going to engage in....but it certainly helps fuel the fire for more interesting scenes that I know will be engaging for us both.



pixelslave -> RE: Integration of Desires (5/10/2007 4:13:09 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Araven

On my journey exploring my submission, I've began to struggle with how to express sexual desires and how to remain submissive and not feel so guilty for letting these things desires arouse me. In many ways I'm also sexually inexperianced. In my mind, BDSM and sexuality go hand in hand. BDSM is an arousing thing for me and I'm a bit shy to admit that it turns me on. Even moreso, if I was to play, I think one of my bigger fears is to be vunerable, turned on, and sort of "exposed". Perhaps its my upbringing, but I'm always a little bit embarassed to be turned on from such things. How can one get past the feelings of shame, guilt, and embarassement at such acts? How do you other submissives with a similar problem handle it?



Araven,
I understand the embarassment and shame that you might feel.  I also can fully relate to the sense of vulnerability as well as the associated fear that goes along with sharing those thoughts with another person about the desires you have within you that others might take advantage of if they were known to the general public.  Those sexual desires are indeed a strong motivator, at least they are for me when serving a woman that I desire.  You can rest assured that you are definitely not alone in feeling this way. [:D]
 
For centuries, women have played upon men's vulnerabilities to their sexual desires.  In a D/s relationship, it is a clear exchange that is happening where these vulnerabilities of yours are acknowledged and accepted.  Remember, these desires of yours are also what are drawing you into the lifestyle.  Whether you realize it or not, sharing them with a woman is exactly the freedom that you ultimately seek.  What more could a man ask for than to be loved and accepted after all his secret desires have been shared and are known by the woman he calls Mistress? [:)]
 
As you find a woman that you think will be right for you, you will want to begin to share those desires at some point with her for many of the reasons the others have listed above.  In my opinion, the mind is clearly the largest sex organ in the body.  If your Mistress wants to turn you on and manipulate your submission, she needs to get inside your mind and access the thoughts you have that really push your buttons.  The only way she can do that, is by you opening up, making yourself vulnerable and sharing the most inimate desires and fantasies that you have. [&:] 
 
That said, you'll want to do it in a way that is respectful of your Mistress; one that isn't demanding, applying pressure, or asking her to perform acts to fulfil your fantasies but more a case of sharing what you know pushes your buttons so that she can choose what interests her and where she might want to take you that she'll know you're receptive to.  It also provides her with material to embarass or humiliate you when in private or during your play.  She can choose to do that in a way that also pushes your buttons, allowing her to enjoy your response so that both of you gain from the sharing and opening up that you've done.  You'll find that when this is done with an experienced Mistress, it creates very much of a "win-win" situation that you will likely never regret. [;)]
 
 - pixel



Nikko1962 -> RE: Integration of Desires (5/10/2007 6:11:02 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: canupleaseme

I would be so upset if I didnt know what turned my boy on.  I pride myself in my knowledge of him in that way, by taking the time to find out whats in his head.  He knows he must tell me of the things that he thinks about.  I love nothing more than to tease him then with that and if he is really lucky he might get it.
Bdsm and sexuality are very linked for me too.  I think I would find it hard to be aroused myself if I didnt know how what we were doing was affecting him.
I also get a lot of contol over him by playing with his sexual needs so our dynamic wouldnt work very well if he suppressed his own sexual feelings.  He will be the first to tell you though that while I encourage him telling me it all he doesnt always get to play.  He certainly isnt topping frm the bottom by revealing these things to me he just has great ideas too [:D]

I would find it very special if he was to tell me something that would make him so embarresed sexually to do [:D]

Some Dommes though will be the complete opposite.  There are a lot of people who practise domination without any sexual contact at all and will not want to know anything about your sexual feelings.  And thats fine for them too [:)]  Just make sure when your looking for your domme find one that goes which way you need. 



Nicely said. 

If the person I was with wasn't there in the "moment" with me, pleased, emotionally, intellectually, all of it, I couldn't submit. I want her to feel the energy and pleasure that I feel, maybe just in a different way. When she is there with me, I am NEVER ashamed or embarrassed.  It's completely the opposite.  I am with her.  It's all about trust and intimacy.  I come alive and feel safe.  Even when she is really pushing me with something.  Even when she coerces a  burning confession out of me.  I feel like I can breath again and can truly open up to her.  If I have ever felt guilty it was because of the regret of not being true to myself.  One way I share my needs is to write.  I write for myself first and then when I really sit and reflect on the writing, I see that the words are true for me.  If they're my words (desires, dreams) how can I feel guilty?  I then share the stories with her or share the thoughts with her verbally.



JoyfulMistress -> RE: Integration of Desires (11/1/2007 2:20:08 AM)

Quote pixelslave
As you find a woman that you think will be right for you, you will want to begin to share those desires at some point with her for many of the reasons the others have listed above.  In my opinion, the mind is clearly the largest sex organ in the body.  If your Mistress wants to turn you on and manipulate your submission, she needs to get inside your mind and access the thoughts you have that really push your buttons.  The only way she can do that, is by you opening up, making yourself vulnerable and sharing the most inimate desires and fantasies that you have. [&:] 
 
That said, you'll want to do it in a way that is respectful of your Mistress; one that isn't demanding, applying pressure, or asking her to perform acts to fulfil your fantasies but more a case of sharing what you know pushes your buttons so that she can choose what interests her and where she might want to take you that she'll know you're receptive to.  It also provides her with material to embarass or humiliate you when in private or during your play.  She can choose to do that in a way that also pushes your buttons, allowing her to enjoy your response so that both of you gain from the sharing and opening up that you've done.  You'll find that when this is done with an experienced Mistress, it creates very much of a "win-win" situation that you will likely never regret. [;)]
 
 - pixel 
pixel,
I have to jump in here and commend you.Your responce was not only well thought out but also so heart felt.Thank you
~Joy



Decimus -> RE: Integration of Desires (11/1/2007 3:16:26 AM)

I agree with everyone above. If part of your experience is sexual then by all means embrace it. Find a domme who will accept that part of you. You might be embarrassed we all are the first time for sure. You will learn later that as a sub you will pretty much always be embarrassed a little with your dom(me) as part of them will always wish to keep you off balance and psychologically keeping you off balance is usually done through embarrassment or fear. As it has been stated before the brain and mind is the most important muscle in any relationship, and sex and psychology are linked through and through, each leads to the other and gives ways to influence the other.



LadyEllen -> RE: Integration of Desires (11/1/2007 5:07:39 AM)

Hi Araven

I dont know if this will help and its something I'm still working on as wording, but here goes.

In any loving everyday sexual relationship between man and woman, each brings to it all that they are and have, will be and will gain, and offers it to the other as a gift. In this way they are joined through the exchanging of themselves with the other. And for this to work out long term requires the total sacrifice of self for the other; the innate awareness of this requirement, and the vulnerability it brings, is what makes love and sex such awesome matters for the psyche, which normally seeks to preserve self. But the possibility of tremendous gain through that same sacrifice is also something innately in the subconcious and drives us to seek out that which will bind us to another.
 
The heightening of these dual awarenesses is what motivates the submissive male mind; it feels the drive to sacrifice self more keenly, and also feels more keenly the danger to self which it brings. It feels a need to demonstrate and experience that sacrifice more fully, through ritual expressions of its compulsion. It is far more apt to lay itself and all it is and has at the feet of its desired, even if no return is forthcoming. It reconciles the vulnerability it fears with the total sacrifice it wishes to make for the heightened sense of gain it feels from surrender.
 
In biological terms, this is a good thing for the woman. Here is a man who without condition on her, is willing to give over all of himself to her; to dedicate his every effort and asset to her purposes and well being. The everyday woman may find this strange in that his sacrifice to her is far deeper than hers to him. But for some women, this is an ideal match. It is not that she is selfish in this regard, for she is also willing to give herself to him, but she welcomes far more than the everyday woman, his willingness to sacrifice without condition.

So Araven, given my take on it (badly expressed as it is so far) is anything like how things are, then in reality the shame and embarassment you feel is normal but all of your own. Your worries over your Lady's feelings are normal for the submissive mind, but all of your own - and most welcome to her. She loves you after all, for being of the mind where you have such concerns.

E




thetammyjo -> RE: Integration of Desires (11/1/2007 6:45:14 AM)

Part of a good healthy Ds relationship in my strong opinion is knowing what turns each other on and having an agreement about how that should be expressed by each person.

That takes time however and continuous communication and flexibility because we change as human beings over time.

In my household a slave is expected to show desire and be sexy whenever possible but they are not allowed to beg or ask for sexual contact. Their mere sexiness and obvious desire and submissive actions are more than enough to interest me and I'll respond when I know we each have enough time to make it good.

I on the other hand am free to use fetishes and to touch whenever and however I want and my slave is not allowed to say "no" though he may ask for a different time if he has work to do -- I can still say "no, right now" and we do it (whatever it is) right now.



Oumae -> RE: Integration of Desires (11/1/2007 8:07:10 AM)

I really enjoy reactions to my teasing and tormenting so am more than happy to see a sub standing tall and proud in more then one way. [;)]

Oumae



RosaB -> RE: Integration of Desires (11/1/2007 8:57:48 AM)

Araven,

I am in agreement with much of what the women here have stated about enjoying, learning what sparks  their subs' arousal.  Its one of the reasons cuckold males get zip response from me.   I enjoy the interaction, I need the give and take.  Please no dead fish for me, I am totally turned on by my partner's arousal.

I don't want to be bombarded with a wish list, but I love knowing what makes my partner tick; and yes partly for taking advantage of that knowledge for my amusement, but over all to enhance both of our pleasure over all.

Also, sometimes, for this fire breathing vixen, [8|],  it's nice to have comfirmation, I'm not alone in my feelings of being turned on by the virility of a man.  So Araven, your question benefited more than yourself.  [:)] 

Rosa


PS, To no one in particular, my comments in no way mean that sending nude picks to the ladies proving your virility, is something encouraged or wanted.  Don't do it.  Don't even talk about bits.



LadyHibiscus -> RE: Integration of Desires (11/1/2007 9:16:40 AM)

Even if I am in a relationship that involves no sexual contact, I need and want to know what turns that boy (or girl!) on.  I enjoy their arousal, even if I have nothing to do with it beyond helping it come about.



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