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RE: Do not read - 5/1/2007 8:49:37 AM   
domiguy


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Hmmmm. I was supposed to go into work....But that wouldn't have been nearly as interesting...to the rant of a self proclaimed insane person....What you need to do since you fear no one is  become a one man vigilante group

“Marty. Y'know what we got here? Motherfuckin' Charlie Bronson. Mr. Majestyk.”

- Drexl Spivey (Gary Oldman)

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RE: Do not read - 5/1/2007 9:05:50 AM   
DommeChains


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As someone who has worked several maximum security prisons in more than 1 state and has years of experience dealing with some the true dregs of society....including a couple of r/l serial killers I have no problem with the use of the death penalty.  I would never, ever consider working in a prison full of inmates who had life without parole.  I can not imagine a more dangerous environment in which to be an employee because you have lost the big incentive.

Having said that I do believe, that if guilt is proved beyond reasonable doubt, then a speedy execution is the way to go.  Do not drag out the appeals for 10+ years.  People do not improve in their habits when locked up for many years.  At this time we have no other proven way to prevent these truly dangerous people from harming others than to execute them.  Ask any security officer or medical personnel who has worked on a death row how many injuries they have sustained during their employment.

And, yet, I still do not have a good answer for how you eliminate the possibility of mistakenly convicting a person innocent of that crime.  I don't know, short of an Orwellian-type world where we are all under constant monitoring, how you could eliminate reasonable doubt.  I do know prisons, as they are currently used in much of America, do not work for rehabilitation as a rule.  The only answers seem to lie in making access to realistic opportunities to provide enough of the necessities to life to everyone regardless of race, financial status or gender.

I will agree with the OP in one point....mental illness or cognitive impairment alone should not forbid the use of the death penalty.  I have personally dealt with a man who was a paranoid schizophrenic, had been arrested on several occasions for aggravated assault with bodily injury, was stabilized on meds and released numerous times to almost immediately stop his medication and again assault someone......until the time he murdered his mother is a particulary brutal fashion.  The same woman who had fought for his release, fought for reduced sentences for him and told everyone what a gentle soul he was.  He is currently sitting on death row awaiting execution for her murder. 

I don't have an all inclusive solution or answer.  I do know this....the human capacity for gentleness, mercy and love is counterbalanced by the capacity for unspeakable cruelty and brutality.


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RE: Do not read - 5/1/2007 9:15:33 AM   
Termyn8or


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WOW, about a dozen posts got in edgwise here.

First of all, executing someone, you got to KNOW for sure they are guilty. I fully agree with that. I also don't particularly care to make the decision, but I will if need be because I believe it is a very important decision. I'm tired of fucking oil millionaires making those decisions.

I am also tired of the mediasong that all life is so precious, the we need ten neurosurgeons around the clock for 44 years to help someone.

Don't give me that I have no sense of charity, I have loaned out thousands of dollars, cars, almost houses, but I stopped short of that. You don't call me with a problem without expecting it to be solved. And you don't call me for help unless you really want it. That's the way it is. Take it or leave it.

People are born with physicasl defects every day, no arms, one arm one leg whatever, and as much as is possible my heart goes out to them. I would help in damn near any way I can, but when you have this insidious defect, the one that causes you to lay in wait until you can get a gun (or a hardon) and then hurt or kill people, you need to be dead. First of all you will not do it again, and second of all being dead you will not reprodice, foisting more sickos on the world.. This is indeed the perfect solution.

Am I Hitler ? Do you see me as Hitler ? Maybe people need to re-evaluate Hitler. The Man was wrong, but he really did think he was doing right. Ever read Mein Kompf ? He really did think he was doing right, leaders of today know goddamn well they are doing wrong but do it anyuway. Every fucking day.

Eugenics, selective breeding, all that. That is the only way to improve us. Hard ? Hard to tell Beetoven's Mother that she can't have any more kids ? You know some on here said some things alluding to the fact that I am playing god. I accept that, and Beetoven is a prime example of a gray area to say the least. My viewpoint is what it is, and it is as imperfect as any of us.

Beetoven was like the seventh kids of a Mother who had venerial disease. In 'my' world he would've never existed. I fully admit that and I know it is wrong.

But what else would've happened. Could you live in a world with a population of three billion insted of six ? Choices are made and consequences happen every day, and no plan is perfect. I fully admit that and I know it.

This is precisely the folly of human nature. And nothing is perfect, and it never will be. But what I presented was the other side of the coin so to speak, the opposite of the pundits and the mediasong. If you are born into shit, and your life is shit, do something with it. Kill. Suicide bombers do it all the time.

We have had it far too easy in this country for far too long. We are lazy, and I admit that about myself. No bones about it, hands down. I have it too easy now. I don't have to get up before noon, I get home by seven PM and make twice as much as alot of people. I am not trying to brag, but I do kinda feel bad for those without skills. Those who work twice as long as me for half the pay. Some are my friends.

I am a hard Man to deal with, but if you do not bullshit me, we will get along. We can disagree, that is never as problem. As long as you are honest with me, there is nothing to fear.

I think in the end, I am saying that human life is cheap now. There are too many crazies and whackos out there and it is time to take care of the problem.

Just let me get my hands on the motherfucker who used this website to arrainge his ex getting raped. Y'know what I think should happen to him ? Rape him. I mean bigtime rape him. Let him feel what it is like. After all, he showed someone else what it is like.

I think that is the crux of what I am trying to say. We need to change our thinking a bit. What has been going on is not working. Every year there are more nuts, more rapists, more killers. They are going to be produced unless we sterilize people, and 'O Gosh no' we can't do that'. so we have to kill them later.

Harsh and tough, but not mean, not ever.I would never be mean.

T

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RE: Do not read - 5/1/2007 10:01:58 AM   
Casie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: IrishMist

quote:

turn the TV on and watch Maury.

NO thanks; I would rather watch real news and get real stories.

The news tells the real story?!?! haha sorry couldn't resist

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RE: Do not read - 5/1/2007 12:00:34 PM   
Devilslilsister


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<raises hand>  i've a question.....

if we're killing off all the murderer's and stuff.  Are we starting with the president or are we going to work our way up to him? Are we taking out the cops that kill when its not needed?  You know, those people the cops "accidently" kill?  The feds?  The CIA?  Whose going to take out the pope and the catholic religion?  Ah heck, all religions.  When do all the religious radicals get killed? 

My only logical problem with your solution........ is that the strong DO kill.  Survival of the fittest, is also survival of the deadliest. 

The weak shall die right............. ?  Why not just go off and kill the weak?  Once the weak are dead, there would be alot less killing going on. 

To kill is human nature.  We kill our food even.  We kill to win wars, we kill for almost anything.  Take it back to the jungle..... do you think if the head lion said to the other head lion "hey this is my pride, please bugger off, i dont want any problems" the other lion would simply walk away?  Newp.  Heck if one lion takes over the pride, he generally kills off the nursing spawn of the last. 

Killing and death will go one forever.... because...... the strong will surivive........ the weak will die....

and if i remember correctly........ the weak arent too good at killing.

Predator vs prey.  Who do you think wins?  The world is filled with predators and prey and essentially you are saying you want to kill off all the predators. 

Want to get rid of the weak?  Stop being a pansy, stop being a human rights activist and go kill the fucking weak.  But dun worry, cos if you dont get em......... another predator will come along and do the job for ya. Aye, you're being a pansy.  Its not "lets kill them" its "lets tie em down, chain em up, make it impossible for them to fight back and THEN kill them"  Now if there isnt anything weaker then kicking some one when they're on the ground... shooting an unarmed man...... 

::smiles:: and you want to kill of the killers.. aka.. the strong.  LOL  You'd leave us in a society filled with weaklings. 

Highly illogical if you ask me


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RE: Do not read - 5/1/2007 12:08:11 PM   
Devilslilsister


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i'm reading your last post........ yeah i skipped it....

and man......... you arent about killing off the weak.  You're out on some dumb ass vendetta.  Or something.  Making excues for why some are weak?  They're weak.  Kill them.  Selective breeding?  For what?  To take out the survival instinct?  Going to leave us in a society like Judge Dredd. 

The WEAK get hurt, the WEAK get raped, the WEAK get beaten on........ and the WEAK get killed.  If yer one of those, better toughen up or you're not going to live too long. 

State sanction execution is for pansies.  Its for the WEAK who cant accomplish it any other way.  "ooooh help me.. some one's been mean to me"  And Wala.. lots of people in blue with big massive guns arrive to "save the day"

Save your own damn day.  Stop relying on back up.  Be strong.

edited to add - stop being mad at who ever was bigger and stronger then you and kicked your ass.  Your anger..... is a sign of weakness. 

lol comical


< Message edited by Devilslilsister -- 5/1/2007 12:11:20 PM >


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RE: Do not read - 5/1/2007 10:05:16 PM   
Termyn8or


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Dev, you obviously have a perspective on this of which I am unaware.

Who hurt you ?

Mail me if you have to but I think it is all good when we keep it in the forum.

And none of you know how to follow directions, the thread says "Do not read". So what every MF in the world reads it. You think you're cool right now, but when my mind kicks up again, well, have the keys in the ignition.

T

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RE: Do not read - 5/1/2007 10:11:50 PM   
cyberdude611


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So the government has to kill in order to show the population that killing is wrong?

Capital punishment is banned on over 120 nations and the number continues to increase. Popular opinion polls show support for the death penalty in the US is in a free-fall the past 15 years. According to Gallup, 82% of Americans favored capital punishment in 1992. Today that number has fallen to 66%. And considering that only 37% of Americans under age 30 are in favor of the death penalty...I would say that within 20 years or so, it will be banned in the US as well.

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RE: Do not read - 5/1/2007 10:29:17 PM   
subfever


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Present to me an absolutely fool proof method of proving that the suspect did the killing and I'll agree with you. Until you can guarantee that no innocent people will be executed I will oppose capital punishment.


I have to go along with this.

Just here in Illinois, many innocent prisoners on death-row have been exonerated over the past few years, due to DNA testing.  

Had we been frying them all along as T suggests, we would have murdered innocent people.

And someone else mentioned killing in self-defense. What about that? Or what about crimes of passion, where the killer was engaged in a physical altercation that escalated to the point where he momentarily lost control?

I could go on, but my point should be clear enough here.  

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RE: Do not read - 5/2/2007 12:48:02 AM   
NeedToUseYou


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Hrmmm, I say either start killing off criminals, or make them earn their way in jail. If it was up to me, If their was conclusive DNA, or video tape evidence, etc... I'd kill them. I know of several people that deserve death. But, they didn't directly wrong me, but they are pieces of shit, and given a gun and a option to kill them without repurcussion sure I'd do it. If someone severely encroached upon me, in a severe way, I'm 99% percent certain it would end badly.
The death penalty should be used in my view where there is zero chance they aren't guilty. So, like that drunken ass police officer that beat that bartender on camera, give me the gun, he deserves death. I really don't care what personal problems he has, anybody that is capable of that is subhuman. And I don't feel bad about killing rabid dogs. The rapist that leaves his man joice on his underage victim, sure I'd kill him.
For the 99% sure crimes , I say send them to hard labour camps, and make them work their asses off 12 hours a day, 365 days a year. That is how they do it in China(I'm not talking of prison, that would be regular law abiding citizens working in a factory). So, if it's good enough for our largest trading partner, to treat its regular citizens that way, well who cares about rapists, thieves, murders. I don't.  I'd also give the lifers, the option of immediate death upon conviction.  Their choice.
People that don't work, well if we are talking fairy land and what ever I want happens. You don't work you get nothing, unless you are severely disabled. So, you starve on the streets, and if we catch you doing anything other than begging, you'll be shot, or working in jail anyway. So, pick McDonalds, or 100 degree 12 hour a day hard labor in jail. Of course, I'd always allow a job for everyone that wanted one.
Political figures, police, judges, lawyers, etc... I'd make it mandatory 3x the normal penalty for any crime they were convicted of. If they were found guilty of accepting bribes, or subverting the system for their benefit, (again via hard evidence, such as audio, video), execution. For lesser crimes, the 3 x penalty minimum would stand and permanent revocation to work in any government position again.

I agree with you on one thing. I have zero sympathy, compassion, caring, etc... for cold-blooded murders, serial rapists, life long criminals. I don't see it as human killing at that point, once you attack a INNOCENT, you lose your human status with me. You could torture them for a years, and sell their organs and it wouldn't bother me at all. I eat bacon I actually for sorry for the pigs, criminals, well they are lower than pigs.  Though, I'd just shoot them, and show it to the next round of thugs.

Documentary shown to troubled youths...
Here's rob, rob likes to break into peoples houses, and steal from them. Sometimes if rob finds an ideal house to rob, that being a single female, and plans it right, he sometimes, will steal, and rape the woman. Well, rob got sloppy one time, and left some of his man juice at the scene. Rob later confessed to raping multiple women as well.
Well, here's rob. (Bring out rob place him next to a white wall)
Boom..

Rob doesn't have to worry about going to prison. Rob is dead, and so will you if you keep this shit up.

LOL, oh but we go here's rapist rob. Here's rapist rob in prison building up big muscles, so he can more easily over power his next victim. Here's rapist rob, bragging to other prisoners about his joyful past encounters with his "dates" it looks like rob has made some new friends while inside!!. Good for rob. Here's rob being released 3 years later. Here's rob stealing again, oh an look at that naughty rob, he's done raped another one. You bad boy. Here's rob back in jail again, enjoying, his three squares, and watching tv. Repeat.




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RE: Do not read - 5/2/2007 3:08:43 AM   
Sinimint


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Be afraid, be very afraid - because shit - I am!!!!!!!!  That is one scary poster lol.

Glad I'm in a different country.....................................

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RE: Do not read - 5/2/2007 3:24:29 AM   
Zensee


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What are you afraid of, Sinimint? You caught him on a good day.

Sometimes he has bad ones - http://www.collarchat.com/m_990158/tm.htm

Z.


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RE: Do not read - 5/2/2007 4:03:07 AM   
Sinimint


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OK, read that one too, that wasn't scary - it was just plain weird.... lol

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RE: Do not read - 5/22/2007 6:56:11 AM   
SirKitty


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

A jury should decide if the death penalty is warranted.

If at a later stage the executed were proven innocent, then one of the jury members would be executed, chosen by lottery.

This would help to make sure as far as possible, that the guilty are guilty before executions.

The problem comes though, when a convict subsequently found innocent after his execution, resulting in the execution of an ex jury member, is then found by way of new evidence to have indeed commited the crime. Whom do we execute in vengeance for the innocent jury member?

E


What an eXcellent idea Lady Ellen.

Yes, there are far too many people who rubber stamp on the basis of "well, if they are in court they must be guilty."

I would take it a step farther and require mandatory death for the prosecuting attorney as well as the lottery for one of the jurors.

Toss O' The Dice, Will O' The Gods.

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RE: Do not read - 5/22/2007 8:51:39 AM   
Sinergy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Present to me an absolutely fool proof method of proving that the suspect did the killing and I'll agree with you. Until you can guarantee that no innocent people will be executed I will oppose capital punishment.


What DomKen said.

Additionally...

"Gollum deserves to die."  Frodo

"Many who live deserve to die.  Many who die serve life, can you give it to them?  Be not hasty in dealing out death in judgement for not even the wise can see all ends."  Gandalf

Sinergy

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RE: Do not read - 5/22/2007 9:46:53 AM   
CrimsonMoan


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Devilslilsister

The WEAK get hurt, the WEAK get raped, the WEAK get beaten on........ and the WEAK get killed.  If yer one of those, better toughen up or you're not going to live too long. 



So Dev are you saying that beign raped in a sign of WEAKNESS? children and women who get beat on are WEAK?? Seriously you need to rethink that post. I was raped as a child and then later as an adult, does that make me WEAK? No it make me a VICTIM there is a difference. Let some beat you to a pulp and rape you and then call you WEAK and tell me how you feel

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RE: Do not read - 5/22/2007 10:14:07 AM   
truesub4u


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<fast reply>
And out of the asses comes another bullshit rant. I'll make the coffee... grab the mixers...and look in again later... LOL

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RE: Do not read - 5/22/2007 12:48:41 PM   
Termyn8or


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The fact of the matter is that no plan concieved by Man will ever be perfect. And my sister makes a pretty damn good case for atheism. So what is left ?

Sadly, our only option is a plan by which some innocents are killed. I don't like it, and I'm sure most of you aren't too happy about it either, but look at the current state of affairs.

Reading even my own words saddens me, that I can think that way, but I do think that way. Even if the plan isn't perfect, the plan results in the betterment of humanity, and excises those detrimental elements.

The current plan rewards failure, and punishes success. Think of the human race as one body. Even though I am a racist I can think that way. Sven as well as Uumfufu are parts of it. Each has a life, and is entitled to that life, that is if they choose to be human.

If you kill for money or personal gain, if you rape, if you hurt those who have not hurt you you are not human. You have chosen to be an animal. I think we should 'put you to sleep'.

There is such a thing as human garbage, and if you never take out the trash, what happens to your house ?

We have lost the sense of personal responsibility for our well being. Big brother will take care of us. People extoll the virtues of insurance, without realizing what it really is. When you give another fiduciary responsibility for your well being you thereby give them authority over your actions. And why shouldn't it be so ?

If I have to pay for your mistakes I'll do everything in my power to keep you from making those mistakes. If you take personal responsibility for your mistakes, then that's your job to avoid making them. I would prefer the rugged individualism of the past, the exploration and conquest of say, this country. Many wrongs were committed, but at least people were really alive.

I have achieved a few things in life, mentally, technicalogically, emotionally. I have felt a sense of accomplishment. But all this is nothing compared to what was done in the past.

The human race is in a state of decline, despite advances in science. We survive using all kinds of fancy tools, cars, factories, all kinds of things. We can't survive without them. Some people can't live without a cellphone, and others, like me, have figured out to drop the damthing in a bucket of water.

They say "What if your car breaks down ? ". To that I say "I've had cars break down before cellphones were even invented".

Now think of living about 150 years in the past. Could you survive ? I fully admit that I couldn't. Those people were smarter and more resourceful than we are today, otherwise we would not be here. To me, that is irrefutable proof, and needs no cites or quotes. Argue against it...

I wouldn't mind trying it out. Learn the ways of survival, and become again fit to survive. Today I am not, I am a fat lazy drunk. But I am not all that fat, that is i am not obese. I am not all that lazy, but I do qualify. And I do not get really drunk. But I am not as fit as I used to be (go figure).

You see I am not talking about some stupid game, I mean take me back 150 years and I am forced to live that existence every day. No phone no lights no motor cars, not a single luxury. In that environment I might just do it. They did.

THAT is what we've lost. We've come from being a species that would find a way to defeat lions, tigers, dinosaurs and who the fuck knows what else, to one that has people who would commit suicide because they don't have enough friends. What happened here ?

My Dad says it's cities. Cities are people living off of each other. Of course it is true, but did I ever think of it that way ? His Dad walked from one end of this country to the other. Was he lonely ? Of course not, there was something he wanted to do and only he could do it for himself so he did it. Alone on the road I could imagine some of the things he thought about. He was a very intelligent Man, as I found out when we got close later in his life. He taught me more that my Father did.

What he had is INDIVIDUALISM. Now to extoll the virtues of individualism in an online forum might seem oxymoronic, but it isn't. To strike out on your own and go your own way doesn't mean you do not communicate with others.

I am not saying that I ever had any great degree of individualism, but I do understand it. See it is not that you can't get any help to survive, people helped each other for millenia, what it is is that you do not want to ask. You do not want to pay, and you do not want favors. You want to do it on your own and there are some necessities that you must get from others. But it is always tit for tat.

These things are dead in us. But you can't get strong unless you have something to struggle against. That's why people buy weights and exercise machines. Let's face it, it just isn't that much work to grab a pack of boneless chicken breasts, take them to the register and with great difficulty, take eight dollars out of your wallet. Then carry that heavy change back to your pants pocket.

And it's a damn shame that people who contemplate suicide are probably the exact people who should live, while some with the strongest in survival instinct are the ones who should be killed. People do not commit suicide because of a hangnail.

I don't want the job of playing God, but somebody better do it, and soon. I don't even know the exact criteria for who should live and die. We all pretty much agree I think, kill the murderers and rapists, but only if we are absolutely sure of their guilt. But there are others.

And yes, we should start from the top down. But it ain't happening.

People in the past worked hard to give their kids a better life and future than themselves, a noble cause. But perhaps they shouldn't have. Obstacles teach. Consequences teach. Society seems to be hell bent on removing these forces. Or is this just how things are supposed to go naturally ?

If my last statement is true, I think the end of the human race is near, perhaps 100 years. And if it doesn't, life will not be worth living, but you get your pills every day, like in 1984 (Orwell). In fact we are getting close to that point right now.

Let me ask a question at this point, the simple answer will be 'NO'.

Q: Do you take any pills ?

I mean medication of any kind, aspirin, prescription drugs etc. I do not mean drugs of abuse. I mean drugs made by those companies. If so do not answer. If you can truly say no, you are lucky. I take no medication of any sort, and it is going to stay that way.

I mean is there one other person in CM who has no prescriptions for drugs ? I mean just one person. I don't care about recreational drugs, I mean medication. Something you take periodically for some condition. Is there even one person who can answer no to that ? The member list is up into five figures, how many people you think can answer no ? Ten, twelve ? Less ? More ?

How can I say this ? If you take medication you are dependant. Because I will not accept that form of life I will not take medication, almost ever. Not that I never have.I have taken antibiotics twice, in my younger day for ear infections. Other than that, nothing. Never long term. An antibiotic does it's job then you are done. That is treatment, not management. That is the difference to me. I would also go to a doctor if I had a broken bone, but I have never managed to break a bone, though I tried. I'm sure I've had some fractures in my fingers, but never broke one completely.

And I absolutely will never ever do a painkiller. I will die first if I have to stick a gun in my mouth. I know pain too, but I stood firm, even with a bullet in me, I got up off the gurney and walked into the hospital and said "I walked in here, and I am walking out". And the first thing I told them was no painkillers.

Pain gives your body and mind instructions on how to heal itself. Painkillers hurt you. No, not cause pain, they REALLY hurt you by thwarting this process. That is my firm belief, and I live by it, and it works for me.

I made that decision for me, you make your own. This was a simple .38 through the face, down into the neck. Tearing of tissue and so forth. This was not like a migraine or an inflamed internal organ.  But then it wasn't pleasant either. But I walked out of there.

And somebody please help fix this country and the People. Somebody please think about that instead of getting the latest CD or DVD. We are better than that, we are better then this.

I have practically no fucking formal education and you can read me. The normal channels do not work. Some of the most intelligent people I know are also dropouts. It can be done.

Stop the entertainment, start thinking, like Men who walk across the country. Enjoy silence, I do. Give your own thoughts some time to breed. I have a stereo, it is turned off at the moment. My mind is running fast, but not too fast. I can pick off a thought or two.

But I still need a vacation.

T

(in reply to Sinergy)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Do not read - 5/22/2007 1:07:46 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CrimsonMoan

quote:

ORIGINAL: Devilslilsister

The WEAK get hurt, the WEAK get raped, the WEAK get beaten on........ and the WEAK get killed.  If yer one of those, better toughen up or you're not going to live too long. 



So Dev are you saying that beign raped in a sign of WEAKNESS? children and women who get beat on are WEAK?? Seriously you need to rethink that post. I was raped as a child and then later as an adult, does that make me WEAK? No it make me a VICTIM there is a difference. Let some beat you to a pulp and rape you and then call you WEAK and tell me how you feel



I disagree, CrimsonMoan, it makes you a survivor.  Survivors are not weak, that is why they survive.

Anybody who thinks differently, as CrimsonMoan points out, might want to consider how they would respond if it happened to them.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
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(in reply to CrimsonMoan)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Do not read - 5/22/2007 1:18:56 PM   
CrimsonMoan


Posts: 2652
Joined: 10/31/2006
From: Portland, Me via Las Vegas Nv
Status: offline
*pounces on Sin and hugs to death* See I knew i liked you. Even if you did pick stimpy over Ren. I just don't like it when people post things without THINKING or when other people just act like it wsn't said. I havent seen ONE other person respond to that part of Dev's post and taht pisses me off more.

(in reply to Sinergy)
Profile   Post #: 40
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