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RE: Plan B - 5/7/2007 11:21:03 AM   
puella


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Joined: 12/2/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SirDominic


I don't think one's being silly is a probable cause. But you are right, those that prey on women (or men) with low self esteem are very good at putting up that good front until they have their catch. Once they feel they have you hook, line and sinker, they allow their real personalities to come out.

I think as well, many times, what looks like strength to someone with low self esteem is viewed by them as good self esteem. This is often a huge attraction for the person with low self esteem. The problem with that is someone coming on strong and confident does not necessarily signify high self esteem.

So I believe it is a combination of cunning on the predators part, and misunderstanding on the part of the one with low self esteem combine to create an attraction that leads to an unhealthy relationship.

Namaste, Sir Dominic


There is an awful lot to really digest in what you said there, and I will probably be mulling it over for a while.  Thank you SirDominic.

As a quirk, I have no idea why I get so annoyed when I get the 'low self-esteem'  phrase coming up.  I honestly never think of myself that way... perhaps if it produces such a reaction in me I should look more closely at it.

_____________________________

We must move forward, not backward, upward, not forward, and always twirling, twirling, twirling towards freedom...... The Simpsons

War is God's way of teaching Americans geography." ...Ambrose Bierce

"Don't you oppress me!"....Stan/Loretta

(in reply to SirDominic)
Profile   Post #: 61
RE: Plan B - 5/7/2007 2:33:59 PM   
ICGsteve


Posts: 202
Joined: 2/2/2005
Status: offline 		You have to be with someone who wants you. It is far better to be with someone who wants you but is walking disaster than be with a "great guy, or wonderfull woman" who doesn't particularly want to be with you. It is critical that we take the best person we can find who wants us rather that the best person we can find who will have us.

(in reply to puella)
Profile   Post #: 62
RE: Plan B - 5/7/2007 4:11:05 PM   
soulfulkitten


Posts: 27
Joined: 1/9/2005
Status: offline 		I have never been someone's plan B nor have I had one of my own.

For me, I don't think emotionally it would be healthy.  I get very emotionally involved with the people I am with.

It would be a type of masochism I couldn't deal with.

(in reply to puella)
Profile   Post #: 63
RE: Plan B - 5/8/2007 6:27:17 AM   
SirDominic


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Joined: 11/22/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ICGsteve

You have to be with someone who wants you. It is far better to be with someone who wants you but is walking disaster than be with a "great guy, or wonderfull woman" who doesn't particularly want to be with you. It is critical that we take the best person we can find who wants us rather that the best person we can find who will have us.


Personally, I consider both those choices as poor options. I would not advise taking the best person you can find who wants you. To me, that smacks of settling for the least objectionable person. I do agree it is a waste to be with someone just because they will have you. If the best person who wants you is not what you want, I would rather go it alone than settle for less.

Namaste, Sir Dominic

_____________________________

You teach best what you have lived.

(in reply to ICGsteve)
Profile   Post #: 64
RE: Plan B - 5/8/2007 6:48:57 AM   
SirDominic


Posts: 711
Joined: 11/22/2006
Status: offline 		puella: By 'plan B' I mean.... the person you reconcile yourself to, or the person you turn to when your heart is broken and you resort to knowing you will never really get what you really want... just the shit you settle for...


You know, this comment has been bothering me since you first wrote it and I have been trying to figure out why. Finally figured out it is the part I have put in bold. This is NOT something you can really know. Unless you have made the decision for yourself that you will never get what you really want. Is so, you will make that self-fulfilling. Is that what you truly want?

How much better to think that the world is full of possibilities, and be open to the idea that you can get what you really want. That's a lot more dangerous way to go, cause you have to open yourself up to all the possibilities, good and bad that may come along. You have to risk the bad if you hope to find the good.

Namaste, Sir Dominic


_____________________________

You teach best what you have lived.

(in reply to puella)
Profile   Post #: 65
RE: Plan B - 5/8/2007 7:01:08 AM   
slaveish


Posts: 1086
Joined: 2/19/2007
Status: offline 		~nods at SirDominic~

puella, what he says is true. To really get what you want you have to totally open yourself up and be vulnerable and trust (very hard for me) AND use your head at the same time (hard for me when my heart is involved). It's scary. Much safer to stay in one's Safe Place and say "I'll never get / don't deserve what I really want so I'll settle for Sir Close Enough." I've done that one to death - let me save you the time and the hassle.

_____________________________

You only lose what you cling to. ~~Gautama Sidharta

If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other. ~~Mother Teresa

(in reply to SirDominic)
Profile   Post #: 66
RE: Plan B - 5/8/2007 7:26:22 AM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: puella

Hello Elorin,

I think you are nibbling aound the edges of something really interesting (and what really prompted my question.. I was not necessarily getting super personal with this post, I just thought it would make interesting conversation and ideas surface.. but thanks to everyone for the love, heh!)

So you do utilze a plan B person now and again.. it would be interesting to hear from a plan B person in a similar situation ... there is a lot of  darkness immediately associated with being a plan B (on my part as well).. I wonder if there are those who are happy and fulfilled with that place?


The only time I had anything similar to a Plan B was during the time I was in doctoral school.  There was a girl who was a friend of my cousin's that had become a friend of mine.  When my first, short-lived=high-school-sweetheart walked out on our marriage, I started going out with my cousin and her friend and developed a "friends with benefits" relationship with my cousin's friend.  She is the one that I first explored BDSM with a lonnnnnnnnnng time ago.  We both knew it would not end up being a forever thing....but for 3 years, it was very good.

Having been a Plan B in the way spoken of by the OP, while thinking I was a Plan A, I don't believe I could do it to someone else.

(in reply to puella)
Profile   Post #: 67
RE: Plan B - 5/8/2007 7:26:48 AM   
puella


Posts: 2457
Joined: 12/2/2004
Status: offline 		Hello SirDominic,

I was not referring to people I would resort to... I am not a 'go to plan B' kind of girl, having been the plan B for more than one person.  I know how cruel it can be and would not subject someone to it, even if they think it is what they want at the time.

_____________________________

We must move forward, not backward, upward, not forward, and always twirling, twirling, twirling towards freedom...... The Simpsons

War is God's way of teaching Americans geography." ...Ambrose Bierce

"Don't you oppress me!"....Stan/Loretta

(in reply to SirDominic)
Profile   Post #: 68
RE: Plan B - 5/8/2007 8:57:36 AM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline
What I infer from your question is, where does one turn when you have not found "the one."

"The one" =s PLAN A.

"Not the one," =s PLAN B.

Waiting / searching / hoping for "the one" can be defeatist perfectionism if taken too far. I'm learly of such thinking.

To me Plan A should take a different form. Plan A should be all about surrounding yourself, as best you can, with friendship and love. This means being appreciative, open, and invested in what you have while also being open to how things could change.

Flexibility is an asset, not a debit. Flexibility allows you to give, experience, and grow more than moth balling yourself up waiting for the perfect or near perfect other.

(in reply to puella)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: Plan B - 5/8/2007 9:07:24 AM   
puella


Posts: 2457
Joined: 12/2/2004
Status: offline 		Hello cloudboy,

I appreciate your interpretation of my Plan B person, though it was not really what I meant by it.  Specifically, I was referring to being the person someone settles for (consciouly settles for)when the person they really want can not be had.

This can, in my opinion, produce a variety of problems....

(I think I like your intepretation better!)

< Message edited by puella -- 5/8/2007 9:08:52 AM >

_____________________________

We must move forward, not backward, upward, not forward, and always twirling, twirling, twirling towards freedom...... The Simpsons

War is God's way of teaching Americans geography." ...Ambrose Bierce

"Don't you oppress me!"....Stan/Loretta

(in reply to cloudboy)
Profile   Post #: 70
RE: Plan B - 5/8/2007 11:07:38 AM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: puella

Hello cloudboy,

I appreciate your interpretation of my Plan B person, though it was not really what I meant by it.  Specifically, I was referring to being the person someone settles for (consciouly settles for)when the person they really want can not be had.

This can, in my opinion, produce a variety of problems....

(I think I like your intepretation better!)


If what you are truly looking at is "settling" and you know that, in your own head at least, that you are settling, then you are right....it can cause problems.  As a matter of fact, as I noted in my most recent post above...having been the type of Plan B you speak of...I KNOW it causes problems.  Heartache, disillusionment, a great blow to self-esteem for starters.  And that was me on the receiving end.  What does it do to the one who is "settling"?  Bitterness?  Cynicism?  A tendency to take "your" failure to achieve what you "want" out on the person whose biggest mistake was to want and love you in the way you wanted someone else to?

(in reply to puella)
Profile   Post #: 71
RE: Plan B - 5/8/2007 5:26:41 PM   
astarri


Posts: 265
Joined: 4/22/2007
Status: offline 		In the relationship i am in now i started out as a "plan b" i guess ... i disliked it and i am still insecure when "plan a" comes around now despite that relationship being over. I did it to myself though ...knew what was happening right from the start ... but our relationship has evolved to a plan a relationship now   =)
It was very difficult for me though
That being said i think it was more a matter of me seeing myself as plan b. We were good friends but i liked him more. I just stuck with it and said repeatedly "it's all good"

< Message edited by astarri -- 5/8/2007 5:59:57 PM >

(in reply to puella)
Profile   Post #: 72
RE: Plan B - 5/8/2007 6:40:51 PM   
Lolajolly


Posts: 11
Joined: 11/10/2005
Status: offline 		Maybe you are a Plan B because you pick people just as superficially as they 'settle' for you?  What kind of Plan A person are you choosing?

(in reply to astarri)
Profile   Post #: 73
RE: Plan B - 5/8/2007 10:29:08 PM   
astarri


Posts: 265
Joined: 4/22/2007
Status: offline 		He is Plan A as i have become for him. I do not feel that we chose eachother "superficiously" .. we were friends and i developed feelings for him. I have never before considered myself coming in "second" and yet there was something about  him that made me want to be there next to him. I can not really articulate the idea well because perhaps i do not fully understand it. I do not believe i was careless ... it was not planned and initially it bit a little bit. I do not believe we are able to choose who we fall in love with. 

(in reply to Lolajolly)
Profile   Post #: 74
RE: Plan B - 5/9/2007 3:00:52 AM   
puella


Posts: 2457
Joined: 12/2/2004
Status: offline 		It could be that, I suppose.  I hadn't quite thought of it like that.

_____________________________

We must move forward, not backward, upward, not forward, and always twirling, twirling, twirling towards freedom...... The Simpsons

War is God's way of teaching Americans geography." ...Ambrose Bierce

"Don't you oppress me!"....Stan/Loretta

(in reply to Lolajolly)
Profile   Post #: 75
RE: Plan B - 5/9/2007 7:06:33 AM   
SirDominic


Posts: 711
Joined: 11/22/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: puella

Hello SirDominic,

I was not referring to people I would resort to... I am not a 'go to plan B' kind of girl, having been the plan B for more than one person. I know how cruel it can be and would not subject someone to it, even if they think it is what they want at the time.


Interesting! You completely avoided my question. Or misinterpreted it. So here it is straight out: How do you know you will never get what you really want?

Namaste, Sir Dominic

p.s. slaveish, thanks for backing me up. Obviously you got it!

_____________________________

You teach best what you have lived.

(in reply to puella)
Profile   Post #: 76
RE: Plan B - 5/9/2007 9:56:09 AM   
puella


Posts: 2457
Joined: 12/2/2004
Status: offline 		These are all hypotheticals, Dominic.

The answer to your question right now is, "Because at this point in time, I can no longer allow that option for myself."

But that really is not at all what I was asking in the OP, really?

_____________________________

We must move forward, not backward, upward, not forward, and always twirling, twirling, twirling towards freedom...... The Simpsons

War is God's way of teaching Americans geography." ...Ambrose Bierce

"Don't you oppress me!"....Stan/Loretta

(in reply to SirDominic)
Profile   Post #: 77
RE: Plan B - 5/9/2007 10:03:25 AM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline 		Puella, I would love to have you as my plan "B".  I would make you feel better by explaining that you were plan "A". Does that help?


_____________________________



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Profile   Post #: 78
RE: Plan B - 5/9/2007 10:04:16 AM   
puella


Posts: 2457
Joined: 12/2/2004
Status: offline 		No. 

_____________________________

We must move forward, not backward, upward, not forward, and always twirling, twirling, twirling towards freedom...... The Simpsons

War is God's way of teaching Americans geography." ...Ambrose Bierce

"Don't you oppress me!"....Stan/Loretta

(in reply to domiguy)
Profile   Post #: 79
RE: Plan B - 5/9/2007 10:12:49 AM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline 		Maybe there is only so much of "getting what you want" available in the world...Let's say there is a finite quantity of this shit...Perhaps in the grand scheme of things, you not getting what you want increases the chance of me getting what I want...Does that make you feel any better?  You are sacrificing your happiness so that others will flourish....You are almost like Jesus.

_____________________________



(in reply to puella)
Profile   Post #: 80
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