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RE: When Patriots are Blind - 5/13/2007 10:09:44 AM   
slaverosebeauty


Posts: 1941
Joined: 12/12/2004
From: Cali
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: agirl

What exactly IS the definition of *supporting the troops*?.

agirl



You support the people [troops] , by praying for them, helping their families, sending words of encouragement to them, sending gum and other things if yuo can, etc. Its like being supportive to a friend, however you would be supportive to a friend, you do the same things  for the troops. Afterall, they ARE our friends, neighbors, relatives, co-workers, etc.

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Profile   Post #: 61
RE: When Patriots are Blind - 5/13/2007 10:30:02 AM   
NavyDDG54


Posts: 203
Joined: 1/10/2005
Status: offline 		What exactly IS the definition of *supporting the troops*?.
 
I am one of 'the troops', do you want to know what support is to us? Support is knowing that back home people are there, waiting for us to return, it is the random thank you we receive on the street, the person who steps out of line when we get behind them.  It's the letters, the gum.  And it's not the act itself, it the intent behind the act, it's being made to feel that people back home appreciate what we do.
 
Do you have any idea what the average person in the military sacrifices?
1) their life gets put on hold for 4 years, you start college at 22
2) you spend months, years overseas away from family
3) your life is on the line every day
4) most servicememebers lose thier girl/boyfriend/fiance/spouse within months of joining
5) you miss weddings
6) you miss births
7) you miss funerals
8) for us sailors we lose our privacy on board, my bething has over 100 guys sleeping in it, I have a rack for my private space
9) we cant just pick up the phone and call home when things get rough
10) and people hate us. Just because we wear the uniform.
I was at the funeral of a fallen friend in Iraq, when protestors showed up AT THE FUNERAL with signs like "Your son is in hell!" "Thank god the baby killer is dead" etc....  Imagine how his family felt. I know if had not been holding the flag I probably would have gotten arrested.
 
You want to support us? LET US DO OUR MISSION. Stop aiding the enemy with timetables, withdrawls, protests. LET US DO OUR JOBS.
It's why we are in the service, it's what we are trained to do.  I've been to Iraq, and i'll go again as soon as the Navy lets me.
 
For all of you who think supporting the war means bringing us home...why dont you ask US what WE want, it's OUR lives.

(in reply to slaverosebeauty)
Profile   Post #: 62
RE: When Patriots are Blind - 5/13/2007 10:32:12 AM   
NavyDDG54


Posts: 203
Joined: 1/10/2005
Status: offline 		Correction on my last sentence it should read:
For all of you who think supporting the troops means bringing us home...why dont you ask US what WE want, it's OUR lives.

(in reply to NavyDDG54)
Profile   Post #: 63
RE: When Patriots are Blind - 5/13/2007 10:43:33 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline 		Upon further reading, my comment here was pointless.



< Message edited by farglebargle -- 5/13/2007 10:45:29 AM >

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to slaverosebeauty)
Profile   Post #: 64
RE: When Patriots are Blind - 5/13/2007 11:02:57 AM   
Argentopal


Posts: 379
Joined: 12/12/2005
From: Central Texas / Hill Country
Status: offline 		Dear Navy - and any other men and women serving the United States in any branch of service or other ways, to their families and loved ones.

I thank you.

I fervently wish there was a positive end in sight and wish you were all home and safe.

I lived through VietNam and lost friends and a special loved one to that "conflict".  My father served in WWII.  My 1st husband served on a NucSubmarine and there was one day, about a week before Christmas, when that black car drove up to my house and 2 uniformed officers got out.  I cannot even begin to describe that feeling.  The sub had "gone silent" for much longer than anticipated in "an exercise" and they had no idea at the time what was wrong.  Since it was a holiday and 2 "familygram" days had already passed with no contact many families were already asking questions, so they felt they had to tell us something.  It all turned out OK in the end and while we could never be told the truth, it became obvious that the sub was someplace the US was not supposed to be and things got a bit "hot" for them.  Our son was born and was almost a year old before he father ever saw him.  I made it through his service married, but when he got out that marriage fell apart.  My second and current husband served in the USAF and was stationed on the East-West German boarder at an interesting time in cold war history. (anyone recall the Disney movie Night Crossing about the family in the balloon?  It is a true story and Argent was the radar officer that had to scramble fighter jets on the balloon!)

While I do have my opinions about Bush and the way this war has been run, I am not there in the middle of it and my opinions are admittedly formed by media reports combined with a few first hand reports from other family/friends who have been there and are there now.  I am sick of young, strong Americans with so much ahead of them being killed.  I am sick of people who have no idea what they are talking about trying to say how to do things. 

Navy and others - there are those of us at home who do understand on a limited scale what you sacrifice.  There are those who do applaud you, appreciate you, and support you in any way we can.

I had a "pen pal" over there 2 years ago, maybe it's time to do it again.
Thank you for your service.
MsOpal


_____________________________

He held out His hand and said "Step into the abyss with me."

... and i did.


~Surrender without Fear~
~Power without Guilt~
~Love without Doubt~

(in reply to NavyDDG54)
Profile   Post #: 65
RE: When Patriots are Blind - 5/13/2007 11:11:50 AM   
NavyDDG54


Posts: 203
Joined: 1/10/2005
Status: offline 		Ms Opal,
Thank you for your support, Words do not even begin to describe what that kind of support means to us  

(in reply to Argentopal)
Profile   Post #: 66
RE: When Patriots are Blind - 5/13/2007 11:22:10 AM   
FirmhandKY


Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NavyDDG54

What exactly IS the definition of *supporting the troops*?.
 
...
 
You want to support us? LET US DO OUR MISSION. Stop aiding the enemy with timetables, withdrawls, protests. LET US DO OUR JOBS.

It's why we are in the service, it's what we are trained to do.  I've been to Iraq, and i'll go again as soon as the Navy lets me.
 
For all of you who think supporting the war means bringing us home...why dont you ask US what WE want, it's OUR lives.


Thank you.  My point.

FirmKY

_____________________________

Some people are just idiots.

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Profile   Post #: 67
RE: When Patriots are Blind - 5/13/2007 1:21:51 PM   
agirl


Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline 		 You may very well be right, Firm. But I haven't stumbled upon anyone who can't separate their concern for the lives and safety of serving troops, from a political action that they disagree with.

agirl

(in reply to FirmhandKY)
Profile   Post #: 68
RE: When Patriots are Blind - 5/13/2007 5:02:23 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

Many people are against the war. 



Of course, we are not technically at war.

So what you are basically saying is that we should continue to kill Iraqis in an insane and incompetent blunder in order to keep people from spitting on our troops?

Odds are fairly good that continuing to kill Iraqis will not increase the popularity of our military, our country, or our countries policies.

If your objections to people opposed to the (as you call it) "war" are due to unhandled baggage you have from the Vietnam Era, I would suggest you not project your own emotional issues on soldiers currently serving. 

Sinergy

_____________________________

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David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to FirmhandKY)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: When Patriots are Blind - 5/13/2007 8:04:35 PM   
caitlyn


Posts: 3473
Joined: 12/22/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NavyDDG54
You want to support us? LET US DO OUR MISSION. Stop aiding the enemy with timetables, withdrawls, protests. LET US DO OUR JOBS.
It's why we are in the service, it's what we are trained to do.  I've been to Iraq, and i'll go again as soon as the Navy lets me.
 
For all of you who think supporting the war means bringing us home...why dont you ask US what WE want, it's OUR lives.


As originally stated, your mission was to remove Saddam and install an elected government. Both of those conditions have been fulfilled, as stated by the Commander in Chief, President Bush. With the mission accomplished so brilliantly, wouldn't it be disrespectful to all our men and women in uniform, to suggest anything less?
 
I think there are more lives on the line than just service men. Thousands of children lose their lives on the streets of American every year, because we don't have the resources to care for them. If you have never been there, you can't imagine the hell. I respect your service very much, but would suggest you fight the urge to see your sacrifice as great, and the sacrifice of others, as small. Your list of thing that service men/women miss, are likely things that some people will never have.
 
There also comes a time when some feel the call of civic duty ... that of a responsible citizen, heading the warning from one of our greatest generals and leaders, former President Eisenhower. I leave you with a few of his quotes.
 
"I fear the day, when a man that doesn't understand the inner workings of the military, sits in the White House."
 
"In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist."
 
"Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, signifies in the final sense a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed."
 
"Here in America we are descended in blood and in spirit from revolutionists and rebels - men and women who dare to dissent from accepted doctrine. As their heirs, may we never confuse honest dissent with disloyal subversion."

(in reply to NavyDDG54)
Profile   Post #: 70
RE: When Patriots are Blind - 5/13/2007 11:08:11 PM   
Vendaval


Posts: 10297
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline 		Hello Navy DDG54 and our other troops,

I deeply appreciate your dedication and sacrifices for this country.
My two older brothers were both in the Navy, one in between Korea
and Vietnam and the other during Vietnam.

If you find yourself out this way send an e-mail and we can visit.

Stay safe and come home to you loved ones.

Regards,


Vendaval

_____________________________

"Beware, the woods at night, beware the lunar light.
So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
great day, I will tease you all the same."
"WOLF MOON", OCTOBER RUST, TYPE O NEGATIVE


http://KinkMeet.co.uk

(in reply to NavyDDG54)
Profile   Post #: 71
RE: When Patriots are Blind - 5/14/2007 12:49:00 AM   
NavyDDG54


Posts: 203
Joined: 1/10/2005
Status: offline 		 
Yes the initial mission was the removal of the tyrannical regime. But missions evolve to fit the circumstances. and frankly how dare you? Our sacrifices are voluntary. WE CHOSE THIS LIFE. in order to protect you and your children, and their children so that when they go to school in the morning the see Old Glory from the flag pole. And you are going to sit there and tell me that we are the same as the poor? Dont get me wrong they need help, but most of them didnt choose that life. WE chose this one, and yet you can sit there and belittle us because we ask for some support from the people back home? 
Never forget:
It is the soldier, not the reporter,
who has given us freedom of the press.
It is the soldier, not the poet,
who has given us freedom of speech.
It is the soldier, not the campus organizer,
who has given us the freedom to demonstrate.
It is the soldier, not the lawyer,
who has given us the right to a fair trial.
It is the soldier,
who salutes the flag,
who serves under the flag,
and whose coffin is draped by the flag,
who allows the protester to burn the flag.

(in reply to Vendaval)
Profile   Post #: 72
RE: When Patriots are Blind - 5/14/2007 1:02:04 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline
quote:


Yes the initial mission was the removal of the tyrannical regime.


No, you are incorrect.

The AUMF-Iraq specifies:

1) Removal of THREAT TO THE US posed by Iraq

( Since there was NO THREAT that was used unlawfully )

2) Enforcement of relevant UN Security Council Resolutions

( Since there was NO THREAT, there were not RELEVANT UN Security Council Resolutions to enforce. And by UN rules, it's the UN's job, not Congress, nor the Executives to enforce. )

Bush committed Fraud. You fell for it.

quote:


It is the soldier, not the reporter,
who has given us freedom of the press.


It is THE REPORTER WHO DEFENDS HIS OWN RIGHT TO PUBLISH WHO HAS FREEDOM TO PUBLISH.

quote:


It is the soldier, not the poet,
who has given us freedom of speech.


IT IS THE POET WHO DEFENDS HIS OWN RIGHT TO SPEAK WHO HAS FREEDOM OF SPEECH.

quote:


It is the soldier, not the campus organizer,
who has given us the freedom to demonstrate.


IT IS THE CAMPUS ORGANIZER WHO DEFENDS HIS OWN RIGHT TO DEMONSTRATE WHO HAS FREEDOM TO PETITION THE GOVERNMENT FOR REDRESS.

quote:


It is the soldier, not the lawyer,
who has given us the right to a fair trial.


What fucking right to a fair trial? There's no right to a fair trial. Are you asleep, or did the trashing of the Right of Habeas Corpus totally fucking pass you right by? Did you miss the loss of Equal Protection and Due Process?

Geez.

Lemme explain REALLY SIMPLY.

There's a reason we have a Second Amendment.

So we don't NEED SOLDIERS TO PROTECT US.

Ask the dead from Kent State about how the Solider defender their rights.



< Message edited by farglebargle -- 5/14/2007 1:07:43 AM >

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to NavyDDG54)
Profile   Post #: 73
RE: When Patriots are Blind - 5/14/2007 1:29:45 AM   
NavyDDG54


Posts: 203
Joined: 1/10/2005
Status: offline 		Without us where would you be? besides executed by whatever tyrant invaded this country. WE ARE ON THE FRONT LINES! WE ARE THE ONES DYING! beneath every white stone slab at Arlington lies a HERO.  And do you think that a bunch of poets and reporters can repel an invasion force? Kent State was a tragic accident, but that's what it was an ACCIDENT, not to mention that several of the protestors wern't even students, they went there intentionally to stir things up.
Who do you think ensure that those rights you enjoy are yours to enjoy? I dont see reporters, poets, campus organizers picking up a gun and going to war voluntarily. I see 18 year old kids who made the decision that the rights and freedoms of America are more important than their own lives. That AMERICA is more important that our lives. I would gladly die for my country if she needs me to.  Did you volunteer for the military after 9-11??  After we were ATTACKED on our on soil?  Damn near 60 years after Pearl Harbor? Have you ever visited the Arizona Memorial? where sailors died on American Soil? When 9-11 happened did you step up and say I am going to protect my country from this? I was 17 when it happened, On September 13 when the recruiting office opened I was there to begin the process of signing up.  What did you do? Cry conspiracy? Or are you like the disgusting Rosie O'Donnel and say that the people who died there died for nothing? That the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES in the less than 8 months he was in office planned this attack? I answered the call of my country, as did thousands other like me. And all you can do is sit there in the comfort and protection of your home, while those of us who answered the call, are living in holes in the groud, in shelves with 90+ people in the same room.  Not knowing when we wake up if that will be the last time. Knowing that around every corner is an enemy. And you are going to sit there and degrade us? insult us? you should be ashamed of yourself.

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 74
RE: When Patriots are Blind - 5/14/2007 1:42:29 AM   
empuser999


Posts: 17
Joined: 8/29/2005
Status: offline 		pst... you want to take out terrorists... i know where they are...

there's this building in washington see... it's actually out in the open... it's 1600 somthing avenue... it's big.. it's white...

and it's full of terrorists! - but i bet you don't believe me and i can't wait to see why.

soldier - my definition - a brave man being used by his government.

i understand that the things done by soldiers in the line of fire etc are heroic - i'm not talking about the men, most soldiers have no idea what's really going on - that's the point! and it's not conspiracy. i'm not going to attack the convictions of the soldier - the commander is another story.

500 years ago learning to read was conspiriacy against the church.

so if you think that everybody who says "look it up" is a conspiracy pusher. you're just as bad as they were 500years ago. i thought you lived in the land of the free?

you wanna talk about a war for rights?! - streets of seatle 1999 - 50,000 poets, reporters and protesters banded together against real tyranny! you need to open your eyes friend. the world could use a strong mind like yours - there are enough soldiers out there.

(in reply to NavyDDG54)
Profile   Post #: 75
RE: When Patriots are Blind - 5/14/2007 2:06:19 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline
quote:

Without us where would you be? besides executed by whatever tyrant invaded this country.


What part of the Second Amendment don't you understand?

quote:


WE ARE ON THE FRONT LINES!


What front lines? There are no Front Lines?

Get back to me when Congress has declared War.

quote:


WE ARE THE ONES DYING! beneath every white stone slab at Arlington lies a HERO.


Why are you neglecting the ones not at Arlington?

quote:


And do you think that a bunch of poets and reporters can repel an invasion force?


Why the hell not? It doesn't take anything but what G-d gave all of us to hold a weapon and plan/execute small-unit tactics.

Whatever's going down, it ain't going down MY STREET.

Don't worry about us, we got good locations already scouted out for the snipers.

quote:


Kent State was a tragic accident,


There's nothing accidental about leveling a rifle and shooting someone.

quote:


but that's what it was an ACCIDENT, not to mention that several of the protestors wern't even students, they went there intentionally to stir things up.


Oh, I get it, so summary execution was justified in your opinion?



_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to NavyDDG54)
Profile   Post #: 76
RE: When Patriots are Blind - 5/14/2007 2:09:50 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline 		To summarize.

Mental Defectives and Wards of the State NEED TO BE PROTECTED.

All others enjoy the 2nd Amendment, and it's implied RESPONSIBILITY FOR PROTECTING THEMSELVES.

Responsibilities are the flip-side of RIGHTS.

Paying for a Standing Army is VERY MUCH like Welfare.

( Notice I didn't say anything about a Navy, or Marines? )

But paying for a Standing Army to just Stand Around waiting for something to do is just like paying a Welfare Mother to Stand Around waiting for something to do.

It neglects their responsibilities to GET REAL JOBS TO SUPPORT THEMSELVES. ( Maybe by becoming a Marine if that's their style... )

And MORE IMPORTANTLY it neglects THE PEOPLES RESPONSIBILITY to take care of their own defense.

I don't see al-quaida bringing in T-72's into Vermont... ( And WTF could the NY Guard do about it with all their armor deployed overseas??? )

And we got some old tricks still iffn they decide to cross lake champlaigne....

Ask the British how they did at Saratoga.

I notice the Queen of England didn't come to Saratoga in August, but rather went to Kentucky.



< Message edited by farglebargle -- 5/14/2007 2:18:05 AM >

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 77
RE: When Patriots are Blind - 5/14/2007 2:17:37 AM   
empuser999


Posts: 17
Joined: 8/29/2005
Status: offline
don't be like the brits who give up liberty for freedom... (synonyms, btw)

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 78
RE: When Patriots are Blind - 5/14/2007 2:19:26 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline
quote:


don't be like the brits who give up liberty for freedom... (synonyms, btw)


We should send them a few crates of paintball gear, so they can figure out how to handle all them surveillance cameras all over the place...



_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to empuser999)
Profile   Post #: 79
RE: When Patriots are Blind - 5/14/2007 2:21:25 AM   
empuser999


Posts: 17
Joined: 8/29/2005
Status: offline 		farglebargle - buddy... check your mail...

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 80
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