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Give, Want or Need - 5/5/2007 1:03:02 PM   
Quivver


Posts: 1953
Joined: 11/27/2004
Status: offline 		Right now I have a huge lump in my throat, my heart is pounding and I think
I’m going to throw up.  I know one persons opinion especially drawn over
the net is not something to take to heart.  But damn it, words can cut deeply.  

I know often I do not appear submissive, yet deep within something has been
trapped for years trying to get out.  All the stumbles, near misses and plain out
dumb mistakes I’ve made and I am still trying.  So, I talk with many.  Usually
learning a little something  with each and every one after a period of time. 
But I’m fragile believe it or not.  And after sharing with someone I’ve spoken
as openly as I can to for a little while.  I was asked to say what it is I want, and
need, my list fell short of giving.  I see giving as an extension of myself, it just is
there, it’s not something I choose to do or not do, it just happens. 
So I neglected to add it to my list.  Due to my omission I heard how selfish
my list was.  And I understood the rest of the reply to mean that I had no
right to consider myself a submissive.  Once I tried to explain what I meant,
and how my wants and needs fell together with what I feel I do genuinely,
all I could feel was horribly flawed.  

So my question is do you always see the things you give, offer and do
naturally as first and foremost before what you want or need? 
This conversation has really shaken my core and has me
questioning deeply what it is I do.  

< Message edited by Quivver -- 5/5/2007 1:16:06 PM >

_____________________________

The problem with communication ... is the illusion that it has been accomplished. ~George Bernard Shaw
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Give, Want or Need - 5/5/2007 1:38:54 PM   
SunNMoon


Posts: 1058
Joined: 3/18/2007
Status: offline 		Hugs

If I was asked a similar question to what it seems that you were asked, I would also list my needs and wants. I agree being giving is just part of a person. I really don’t see how that is selfish. To answer your question, no; those are just things that I am. They’re apart of what I offer to someone just because that’s who I am.

I also think that people know themselves the best. And when you look inward and you see that you are submissive then that’s who you are.
Again hugs.

(in reply to Quivver)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: Give, Want or Need - 5/5/2007 1:45:23 PM   
MasterFireMaam


Posts: 5587
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
Status: offline 		Quivver,

I'm not real sure I'm following. Were you asked for three lists (wants, needs and giving) or two (wants and needs)?

Master Fire


_____________________________

The power of who we are can be intoxicating. The power of who we could be is humbling.
-----
Ms Relationship Books
-----
BDSM How-To Books

(in reply to Quivver)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: Give, Want or Need - 5/5/2007 1:49:29 PM   
KatyLied


Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		I think his reply says a lot about him.

_____________________________

“If you want to live a happy life, tie it to a goal, not to people or things.”
- Albert Einstein

(in reply to Quivver)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: Give, Want or Need - 5/5/2007 1:55:29 PM   
windchymes


Posts: 9410
Joined: 4/18/2005
Status: offline 		The important thing is that YOU know who you are.  No one's worth as a human being or a submissive is ever based on a list you wrote. 

Remember the old saying, "ACTIONS speak louder than words"? 

And I'm sorry, NO ONE has the right to go around telling people they have no right to call themselves a submissive.  Who died and put them in charge?

_____________________________

You know it's going to be a GOOD blow job when she puts a Breathe Right strip on first.

Pick-up artists and garbage men should trade names.

(in reply to KatyLied)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: Give, Want or Need - 5/5/2007 2:06:18 PM   
smilingjaguar


Posts: 271
Status: offline 		If I were with you I'd give you a hug right now.  This person who you are allowing to set your self worth is not worth that much attention.  You answered the question you were asked.  There is nothing to be ashamed of.  So you don't fit that person's idea of what a submissive is.  You will find someone who values what you give and what you want and need.  Take this as what it is, one person's opinion. 

(in reply to Quivver)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: Give, Want or Need - 5/5/2007 2:08:54 PM   
gypsygrl


Posts: 1471
Joined: 10/8/2005
From: new york state
Status: offline 		When I talk about my being submissive, I talk in terms of needs and wants.  Early on, I stick to needs and gloss over wants because unless I'm sure they can be met, nothing else happens.   If I'm confident an interaction meets my needs, I might start discussing my kinks and other wants.  And then, maybe, if all goes well, I might give a little here and there.  There's a definite priority, though.  Needs first, then wants, then what I have to give.  Usually, if an interaction progresses to the point where I'm ready to think about what I have to give, the other person should already have a pretty good idea just from spending time and talking to me.

I've made a lot of mistakes too, and one has been not paying attention to my own needs.  I've given plenty in the name of love, submission and whatever but somehow have always been left out to dry when it came to meeting my needs and ended up miserable.  I decided that happened over and over again because I let it happen.

I think it makes perfect sense to focus on your needs and wants especially early in a relationship, before its established.  I mean, seriously, unless he's looking for someone to take advantage of, what he worried about 'gifts' for? 


_____________________________

“To be happy is to be able to become aware of oneself without fright.” ~Walter Benjamin


(in reply to Quivver)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Give, Want or Need - 5/5/2007 2:44:24 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		I agree with Katy again.  Instead of asking for clarification, he just shot you down.  He asked for a vague list and then took it as gospel.  Very lazy and stupid dominating really.

As for the actual question- no, it would take me time and I'd likely miss a lot of what I do/give if I had to think about it and write it down quickly.

I'm sorry you are so shaken, but you should really see it more as his fault in working with you on the list and presumptuousness rather than any fault of yours.  A dom who asks for a list and then immediately says you are selfish because you forgot to put down one particular thing is not a dom with good communication or relationship skills.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to gypsygrl)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Give, Want or Need - 5/5/2007 2:45:59 PM   
shyinini


Posts: 550
Joined: 5/4/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Quivver

So my question is do you always see the things you give, offer and do
naturally as first and foremost before what you want or need? 
This conversation has really shaken my core and has me
questioning deeply what it is I do.  


I am soooo sorry Q.  
 

The answer to your question is yes.
I give.  My wants revolve around giving.  I need to give.
Sir told me just this week, "since you will never ask......"
If I cant give, I am not true to myself.


_____________________________

With grace and gratitude, I am owned.
A Man who always seeks to be the best He can be for you
is the only Man truly worthy of being called Sir.


(in reply to Quivver)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Give, Want or Need - 5/5/2007 3:53:20 PM   
OnlyHis


Posts: 137
Joined: 2/25/2004
Status: offline 		Quivver, Never allow someone, who doesn't know you from Adam, attempt to dictate how you should be , what your wants and needs may be.  If you feel in your heart you are submissive then that is what you are.
  And you are not flawed. You are like the rest of us imo , you are learning and growing. At least i hope we all have room for growth.:)
Take care


(in reply to Quivver)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Give, Want or Need - 5/5/2007 3:57:09 PM   
Quivver


Posts: 1953
Joined: 11/27/2004
Status: offline 		I would like to thank you all for the hugs, and the kind words.
Master Fire, to answer your question I was asked for a list of my wants/needs.

To clarify some, this is not someone where we were sharing to build a relationship.
This is just a person who had in times past shown good judgement and a clear head.
I had simply been sharing stories.  Being a Dom he was trying to offer assistance as
best he could.  He just never realized just how sensitive I am I guess. 

Gypsygrl, I agree... I allow myself to be drained.  If you have suggestions on conversation of self,
I'm all ears.  Right now I could really use it. 

Thank you all again...............



_____________________________

The problem with communication ... is the illusion that it has been accomplished. ~George Bernard Shaw

(in reply to shyinini)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Give, Want or Need - 5/5/2007 4:07:25 PM   
minnetar


Posts: 1272
Joined: 4/11/2007
Status: offline 		Sometimes i think a submissive knows her purpose is pleasing her Master so she thinks that is a given rather than something she needs to list out as what a part of what she is.  It is the basic core component so she thinks it is a given.  No reason to berate yourself and if They don't understand it then it is Their issue not yours.

minnetar

(in reply to Quivver)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Give, Want or Need - 5/5/2007 4:23:29 PM   
Einzelganger


Posts: 221
Joined: 4/8/2007
From: Orlando, FL
Status: offline 		Quivver, this is just a suggestion, but...don't let anyone question your submissivity (have I just invented a word, or is this correct?).  You know what you are, and you can see things these people never will.  I've been told I'm not a submissive many times, simply because I don't bown down and serve anyone who cals his/herself dominant, and barks orders at me. *shrugs*  That's not something they can tell me, it's something I know.  So when someone tells you that, it's rather rude, but try not to sweat it...they can't see into your heart like you can.  Just my $0.02...

-Einzelgänger

(in reply to Quivver)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Give, Want or Need - 5/5/2007 4:48:33 PM   
MsKatHouston


Posts: 1909
Joined: 6/7/2006
From: Houston, TX
Status: offline 		Let me get this straight.  You were asked for a list of wants and needs.  You supplied it.  You ommitted something.  So you are not a submissive? 

But to go further, you didn't really omit it, you just found it to be so intregal to your being that you did not list it as a want and need.  Did you add breathing to the list of needs?  I am curious.  So if you did not add breathing to the list you must not be alive, correct?

edited bc I can't type

< Message edited by MsKatHouston -- 5/5/2007 4:49:14 PM >

_____________________________

-Kat

~If you can't be a good example, you'll just have to serve as a horrible warning~

(in reply to Einzelganger)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Give, Want or Need - 5/5/2007 5:37:20 PM   
daddysprop247


Posts: 1712
Joined: 6/24/2005
From: DC Metro area
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: minnetar

Sometimes i think a submissive knows her purpose is pleasing her Master so she thinks that is a given rather than something she needs to list out as what a part of what she is.  It is the basic core component so she thinks it is a given.  No reason to berate yourself and if They don't understand it then it is Their issue not yours.

minnetar



agreed. Quivver, you shouldn't let this person's words or opinions define you or your value as a submissive. He kinda comes across as one who doesn't really have a clue about true submission anyway, to ask you to compose such a list and then jump to such conclusions from it.

(in reply to minnetar)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Give, Want or Need - 5/5/2007 5:56:09 PM   
Celeste43


Posts: 3066
Joined: 2/4/2006
From: NYS
Status: offline 		He's passive aggressive. He didn't ask you about what you have to give, what services you offer. He asked about your wants and needs. He set you up to fail. You've been played by someone who doesn't want a relationship, he wants an excuse to not have one.

You did exactly as he asked, you gave him a list of your wants and needs. He showed you exactly how far he is from being the dom of your dreams. Be grateful it ended in the talking stage.

(in reply to daddysprop247)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Give, Want or Need - 5/5/2007 5:59:56 PM   
happypervert


Posts: 2203
Joined: 5/11/2004
From: Scranton, PA
Status: offline 		I just hope all this questioning yourself passes quickly so you can be thankful you left giving off your list and now you can stop wasting time on that asshole.

_____________________________

"Get a bicycle. You will not regret it if you live." . . . Mark Twain

(in reply to Quivver)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Give, Want or Need - 5/5/2007 6:51:42 PM   
Quivver


Posts: 1953
Joined: 11/27/2004
Status: offline 		wait!  i agree this gentleman was a bit presumptious.  but the difference here is this was not a give
and take to for him to consider me his sub!  not in the least!  he is merely someone who's been a
good ear up till now.  his imput usually quite thought provoking.  yet this was never addressed
as considering me or i him in a D/s relationship. 

i hope i only caught him on a bad day.  of course after this i wont be thinking about chatting with him either. 
i guess the lesson here is once again to take this medium (the internet) with a grain of salt.
without knowing the other by the whites of their eyes words really are only words. 
and if the words cut there is more then one thing wrong, meaning both sides have an issue.
i believe i know what mine is.  and selfishness isnt really a part of it. 

all in all i wish him well, he's meeting his new sub this weekend. 
 

_____________________________

The problem with communication ... is the illusion that it has been accomplished. ~George Bernard Shaw

(in reply to happypervert)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Give, Want or Need - 5/5/2007 7:48:20 PM   
TemptingNviceSub


Posts: 3054
Joined: 10/1/2005
Status: offline 		The question was flawed, it set you up to fail.Your answer was simply that your answer,neither good nor bad,neither submissive or unsubmissive.Many times ,,as someone said we take for granted what we consider the obvious and make no mention of it, it just is..You are who you are..and you are one of a kind...Now go grab some chocolate and lets eat!!!...Tempting

(in reply to Quivver)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Give, Want or Need - 5/5/2007 7:53:14 PM   
Quivver


Posts: 1953
Joined: 11/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TemptingNviceSub

Now go grab some chocolate and lets eat!!!...Tempting


Awe shucks... Thank you.... but I'm still working on those few pounds!
But I did treat myself to a few items in the Fredericks Catalog....... 
Chocolate or Shopping.... somethings gotta work. 



_____________________________

The problem with communication ... is the illusion that it has been accomplished. ~George Bernard Shaw

(in reply to TemptingNviceSub)
Profile   Post #: 20
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