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Brat? - 5/6/2007 5:35:32 AM

DefiantSurrender

Posts: 7
Joined: 5/2/2007
Status: offline

Just wondering about the word, the definition, the sort of behaviour/thinking that results in the label.

Anyways, here's a random diary entry.

---
Hmm, okay, so i've been thinking about this "consentual non-consent" thing, and decided i am very much curious about it.
It pretty much sums up the username, i guess.

These days i feel a need to be controlled, overwhelmed, overpowered...in a physical sense, in a mental sense...

...from reading a few profiles here, it seems i would probably be too bratty for some, too subservient for others.

But as far as defiance goes...that's half the fun. :)
To put up a fight, to be met with greater strength, to become suddenly afraid and to know that my fear is giving you a thrill of power...

...It is a way of connecting; a sensual, violent, intense communication.
---

Is this bratty?
If you met somebody who behaved in this way, would you appreciate it, or would you find it annoying?
Do you prefer a submissive person to "behave" straight away?

Not looking for any great universal truths or anything; just a collection of thoughts and opinions on what sorta things people are interested in.

Post #: 1

RE: Brat? - 5/6/2007 5:55:35 AM

mstrjx

Posts: 2045
Joined: 11/27/2005
Status: offline

To me, bratty would have something to do with inconsistency.

One moment, the submission is there. The next, the submission is withdrawn or struggled over. It's usually more at the behest of the submissive than a choice that the dominant makes. It's like playing hide-and-go-seek with only one person wanting to play that game.

Jeff

_____________________________

Know thyself. It's the best gift you can ever give yourself.

(in reply to DefiantSurrender)

Post #: 2

RE: Brat? - 5/6/2007 7:56:41 AM

amaidiamond

Posts: 1793
Joined: 2/6/2006
From: Watford / London
Status: offline

I most likely shouldn't be answering here as I'm not a Master (kinda obvious that) However I would say there is a GREAT difference between being bratty and needing to be beaten/overpowered/taken over as it were...

(in reply to mstrjx)

Post #: 3

RE: Brat? - 5/6/2007 8:31:36 AM

SirDominic

Posts: 711
Joined: 11/22/2006
Status: offline

Being bratty and defiant in your submission are not really the same thing. The latter is an element negotiated between two people where the sub wants to be forced to submit. They get off on the struggle, knowing they are going to lose.

Bratty is similar, but is a more verbally confrontational approach to the above. Nothing wrong with this style. There are couples where the submissive being bratty is accepted behavior.

Personally, I don't really enjoy a bratty submissive, where I would absolutely enjoy the defiant submissive who wants to be dominated by force.

Namaste, Sir Dominic

_____________________________

You teach best what you have lived.

(in reply to DefiantSurrender)

Post #: 4

RE: Brat? - 5/6/2007 9:48:01 AM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

Reposted:

I am not sure why so many people think you can't be witty and amusing and have fun and show personality unless you're being a brat. The most common thing I hear from brats suggests that they feel that if they aren't bratty, then they will be repressed, bland, and boring. So perhaps they are acting out as a way to fight against being ordinary.

There may also be a taste of the "force me" in brats. They are oh so proud and oh so strong until the ONE comes to them and somehow transforms them into a meek and obedient girl- it is only HIS true power and honor which can tame the wild beast. It's a form of "do me" and definitely another type that can't reconcile being submissive AND being a full person.

Why adults think it's ok to act like a brat in public I have no idea. Just because it's kinky doesn't mean it's ok to be rude.

For me, being a brat isn't a positive thing at all, and I don't associate with brats

http://www.collarchat.com/m_480396/mpage_4/key_brat/tm.htm#485762
What's your definition of "bratty submissive"?

http://www.collarchat.com/tm.asp?m=316437&mpage=1&key=brat&#316452
Not a slave...a bratty subbie

http://www.collarchat.com/tm.asp?m=256345&mpage=1&key=brat&#256683
The "B" word

http://www.collarchat.com/m_741744/mpage_1/key_brat/tm.htm#741775
what is a brat?

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to DefiantSurrender)

Post #: 5

RE: Brat? - 5/6/2007 9:59:22 AM

spanklette

Posts: 882
Joined: 2/22/2005
Status: offline

I wouldn't consider what you've written to be "brat" behavior...just a style of submission that suits you.

I have been accused of being a "brat" on more than one occasion, but not for things that I consider childish or rude behavior. Mostly, it was because I was younger, outspoken, and probably right.

People have their own definitions of being bratty and I'm okay with that. I also have my own definition of condescending.

Like LA, I don't associate with brats. I find them rude, obtrusive, and generally attention whores who could care less about what is going on around them. I do, however, love a submissive with opinions and fire...and, maybe a little bit of defiance.

_____________________________

~spanklette~

"The important thing is this: to be able at any moment to sacrifice what we are for what we could become. " Charles du Bois

"Please don't shout, can't you see I'm not listening." Billie Myers

(in reply to DefiantSurrender)

Post #: 6

RE: Brat? - 5/6/2007 10:47:47 AM

Level

Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DefiantSurrender

Do you prefer a submissive person to "behave" straight away?

Yes.

That doesn't mean that they submit to me right away, it means they are respectful.

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to DefiantSurrender)

Post #: 7

RE: Brat? - 5/6/2007 10:49:53 AM

Level

Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

Reposted:

I am not sure why so many people think you can't be witty and amusing and have fun and show personality unless you're being a brat. The most common thing I hear from brats suggests that they feel that if they aren't bratty, then they will be repressed, bland, and boring. So perhaps they are acting out as a way to fight against being ordinary.

There may also be a taste of the "force me" in brats. They are oh so proud and oh so strong until the ONE comes to them and somehow transforms them into a meek and obedient girl- it is only HIS true power and honor which can tame the wild beast. It's a form of "do me" and definitely another type that can't reconcile being submissive AND being a full person.

Why adults think it's ok to act like a brat in public I have no idea. Just because it's kinky doesn't mean it's ok to be rude.

For me, being a brat isn't a positive thing at all, and I don't associate with brats

http://www.collarchat.com/m_480396/mpage_4/key_brat/tm.htm#485762
What's your definition of "bratty submissive"?

http://www.collarchat.com/tm.asp?m=316437&mpage=1&key=brat&#316452
Not a slave...a bratty subbie

http://www.collarchat.com/tm.asp?m=256345&mpage=1&key=brat&#256683
The "B" word

http://www.collarchat.com/m_741744/mpage_1/key_brat/tm.htm#741775
what is a brat?

Well said, as usual, LA.

I hope you all survived the terrible Texas winter, by the way

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 8

RE: Brat? - 5/6/2007 12:20:58 PM

aldompdx

Posts: 538
Joined: 10/24/2004
Status: offline

What you describe sounds to me like a form of "passive-aggressive" behavior. First, it is not being honest about the real motive for "defiance." Second, it is a process of denial, by refusing to take personal responsibility and owning the decision to surrender.

Fun? Yes, some people do "enjoy" fighting and adversity. Learn why, and then you can have even more "fun" and fulfillment.

(in reply to Level)

Post #: 9

RE: Brat? - 5/6/2007 4:37:18 PM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level
I hope you all survived the terrible Texas winter, by the way

Thanks Level :)

I survived only to be sunburned today as a result.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to Level)

Post #: 10

RE: Brat? - 5/6/2007 4:58:37 PM

mnottertail

Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline

this may then qualify you as the wurst brat today. Well done pussy with garnishment and the right condiments is a satisfactory repast.

Harlan D. Gastronomiquesque

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 11

RE: Brat? - 5/6/2007 5:08:45 PM

IrishMist

Posts: 7480
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline

Brat = going out of my way to be deliberatly willfull, and disobedient

REasons for being a brat = wants attention focused on themselves and not the dominant; so they will use any behavior available to accomplish this

( these are my definitions and opinions ONLY; they do NOT represent a universal idea or description )

_____________________________

If I said something to offend you, please tell me what it was so that I can say it again later.

(in reply to DefiantSurrender)

Post #: 12

RE: Brat? - 5/6/2007 11:12:32 PM

phoenixinchains

Posts: 2534
Joined: 4/5/2007
From: i live here
Status: offline

good brat / bad brat. the difference? one is not submitting, the other is. my Mate likes "a challenge" every now and again. my constant obediance can make Him feel as though He's winning a game of chess to a toaster. so if this happens, i get to be "naughty", and He is pleased.
the type of behavior i've heard about here is not quite what i'm familar with, but words can always mean different things to different people. i've learned labels can be helpful, and confussing all at the same time, hope this can help- phoenix

(in reply to IrishMist)

Post #: 13

RE: Brat? - 5/6/2007 11:35:41 PM

CrazyC

Posts: 949
Joined: 9/28/2006
Status: offline

I had one Dom tell me that as long as my bottom can handle the amount my mouth gives out, I can be bratty. And trust me i haven't found anyone to take me over the edge of that promice. (Meaning...I can usually dish it out alot harder then they are willing to make me submit.) By the way, that would be me being bratty. hehehe

IrishMyst, it has nothing to do with trying to get attention. In fact the more i submit the more this side comes out. And why? becaue i like to challenge people. I want to be forced to submit on days i feel rebellious. I want to see..can i push the buttons? If i can, I can't completely submit.

_____________________________

"You never lose by loving. You always lose by holding back." Barbara De Angelis

(in reply to phoenixinchains)

Post #: 14

RE: Brat? - 5/7/2007 1:33:58 AM

MissOchistic

Posts: 315
Joined: 4/30/2007
Status: offline

I would say it's only bad if it's inconsistent.

There are some Doms who like this, often ones who are nor interested in a 24/7 dynamic.

In a full time enviornment, this would probably seem like a bratty tantrum.

_____________________________

"The amount i care for Thee
is more than two, but less than three."

"Submission is a potlatch."

(in reply to CrazyC)

Post #: 15

RE: Brat? - 5/7/2007 3:29:50 AM

cjenny

Posts: 1736
Joined: 11/27/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: IrishMist

Brat = going out of my way to be deliberatly willfull, and disobedient

REasons for being a brat = wants attention focused on themselves and not the dominant; so they will use any behavior available to accomplish this

( these are my definitions and opinions ONLY; they do NOT represent a universal idea or description )

I think that is a great definition!

_____________________________

*Unless I cite a source it is MO.

~ ssssh. i think i've just found freedom. ~

(in reply to IrishMist)

Post #: 16

RE: Brat? - 5/7/2007 7:36:30 AM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: phoenixinchains
the type of behavior i've heard about here is not quite what i'm familar with, but words can always mean different things to different people. i've learned labels can be helpful, and confussing all at the same time, hope this can help- phoenix

I don't see how challenging = bratty. If I want to enjoy forceplay, I ask the other person "Hey, it is ok with you if I fight against you?" They say yes. We do this either in private or in a scene. To do so when adult considerate behavior is expected while socializing in public is rude.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to phoenixinchains)

Post #: 17

RE: Brat? - 5/7/2007 7:38:04 AM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: CrazyC
IrishMyst, it has nothing to do with trying to get attention. In fact the more i submit the more this side comes out. And why? becaue i like to challenge people. I want to be forced to submit on days i feel rebellious. I want to see..can i push the buttons? If i can, I can't completely submit.

What would you do with someone who just ignored you and said to call when you were feeling like behaving properly?

You want to be forced to submit- that means you want their attention and energy to be focused on doing something you agreed to do already.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to CrazyC)

Post #: 18

RE: Brat? - 5/7/2007 9:10:22 AM

CrazyC

Posts: 949
Joined: 9/28/2006
Status: offline

I have always been respectful and submissive when i know i have gone too far. For being ignored, I am fine with. That is something i deserved, and respect it. I usually drop the probing and go on with daily life.

I want to be forced, because i keep coming up with these doms who are wanting me to jump in thier laps tell them how much i want them to beat me. I find this type of approach annoying. (I keep thinking of blond cheerleaders saying "Beat me, Beat me." LOL) Maybe because i don't find this doming me but more me telling someone to do that for me. I might as well be Domme then. Maybe forced wasn't the right word, maybe i should say i don't want to have to make the decisions. I just want to be used in anyway they seem fit (ofcourse with my hard limits which are few), and yet very few do that.

And then when i do find someone, they are always scared of hurting me too much even after knowing i have a large thresh hold for pain.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 19

RE: Brat? - 5/7/2007 9:21:33 AM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: CrazyC
I want to be forced, because i keep coming up with these doms who are wanting me to jump in thier laps tell them how much i want them to beat me. I find this type of approach annoying. (I keep thinking of blond cheerleaders saying "Beat me, Beat me." LOL) Maybe because i don't find this doming me but more me telling someone to do that for me. I might as well be Domme then. Maybe forced wasn't the right word, maybe i should say i don't want to have to make the decisions. I just want to be used in anyway they seem fit (ofcourse with my hard limits which are few), and yet very few do that.

This makes total sense to me, but the solution IMO isn't for you to become pushy or bratty- that doesn't get you what you wanti n the long term and I bet you'll get tired of always having to leap up in the air for their attention. You're still doing the same thing, but instead of saying "Rah rah rah! Please beat me!" you're saying "Lookit me! Can't catch me!"

You're still getting their ego up, but with you becoming the instigator, you get to feel more in control and secure in the situation and playing on THEIR buttons. But it's still not just flowing happily from both of you to the other and it will end up with frustrations in the end.

The solution is to find a dom you work with who does NOT need the ego stroking to be an effective dom. They are indeed not as common as the other sort, but they exist.

quote:

And then when i do find someone, they are always scared of hurting me too much even after knowing i have a large thresh hold for pain.

I don't know you well enough to say for sure, but it MIGHT be part of how you come across. If you're intentionally challenging people, you might be perceived as a "do me" type and thus pushing away the very doms who would be most capable of giving you what you want.

It is a common affliction with people with very high pain tolerances AND very high masochistic urges. If I want to hurt you, trust me a few nerve pinches would have you on the ground really fast with hardly any effort on my part. The issue is that you want pain in a specific way- and that requires a dom also willing to engage in that sort of scene with you.

But don't fear, with the right attitude, you CAN find a good dom who won't be afraid of hurting you in a bad way to build up a good scene for you both in a good way. But you've got to stop wasting so much time playing chase-me games with the ego-doms first.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to CrazyC)

Post #: 20

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