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RE: Micro Management, what does it mean to you? - 5/7/2007 7:03:50 PM   
MellowSir


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I don't much micromanage, it's seems too much to be vicariously living someone else's life, I've enough of my own issues , rather than nitpick and get a headache over it lol. I imagine there are subs that need that, none that I've known....

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RE: Micro Management, what does it mean to you? - 5/7/2007 7:25:06 PM   
sublimelysensual


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Personally, I think of micromanagement as being given a set schedule that deals with specifics as to what is expected. For me, it's a kink, I enjoy it tremendously. That being said..it isn't a need for me at all, and I would probably worry about anyone who did have it as a need. I see it, especially in the beginning of a relationship, as a way to learn the Dom's personal preferences and expectations, ie, how should the clothes be folded, what drink do they prefer, how should their steak be cooked, what are their pet peeves, etc. In other words, I want to be as pleasing as possible, and knowing one's preferences and expectations is a large part of that. Once those things are learned, the micromanagement becomes much more casual, for me, at any rate.
 
 I also don't really believe in making assumptions about what one wants or will permit at any given moment, save things that have been laid out already. Therefore, if He were home, or we were together, I would ask permission to hit the powder room, or get something to drink, etc. I've always looked at that as more of a protocol thing than micromanagement though.
 
 Although I think almost everyone differentiated between need and kink, I'm still a bit surprised at how many people have said they can't stand it, it's too much work, etc, I guess because I look at it as building blocks to being a better sub/slave for the person you're serving by not having any questions about whether what you're doing is appropriate/desired. Definitely something to give more thought to...
 
-a

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RE: Micro Management, what does it mean to you? - 5/7/2007 10:26:05 PM   
Slavetrainer2007


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i think micro managing can be useful in  certain situations more so in play and scenes. However, having to micromanage because the sub needs it is completely different. I think MasterFireMaam's example is a good  vanilla example. Another example is a subs masturbation.. Perhaps you want her to play and orgasm and to make it interesting lets say record it for you.  Then end result is you want her to orgasm for you. But you give her detailed instructions on what she must do to reach that orgasm. That would be a way i would use micromanaging . IF i had to tell her how to reach an orgasm and  couldnt just say " i want you to build and have an orgasm"  then that is to much work.

I view those that want to be micromanaged 24/7 or even alot  negatively.

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RE: Micro Management, what does it mean to you? - 5/7/2007 11:21:29 PM   
WhiplashSmile


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sublimelysensual

Personally, I think of micromanagement as being given a set schedule that deals with specifics as to what is expected. For me, it's a kink, I enjoy it tremendously. That being said..it isn't a need for me at all, and I would probably worry about anyone who did have it as a need. I see it, especially in the beginning of a relationship, as a way to learn the Dom's personal preferences and expectations, ie, how should the clothes be folded, what drink do they prefer, how should their steak be cooked, what are their pet peeves, etc. In other words, I want to be as pleasing as possible, and knowing one's preferences and expectations is a large part of that. Once those things are learned, the micromanagement becomes much more casual, for me, at any rate.
 
 I also don't really believe in making assumptions about what one wants or will permit at any given moment, save things that have been laid out already. Therefore, if He were home, or we were together, I would ask permission to hit the powder room, or get something to drink, etc. I've always looked at that as more of a protocol thing than micromanagement though.
 
 Although I think almost everyone differentiated between need and kink, I'm still a bit surprised at how many people have said they can't stand it, it's too much work, etc, I guess because I look at it as building blocks to being a better sub/slave for the person you're serving by not having any questions about whether what you're doing is appropriate/desired. Definitely something to give more thought to...
 
-a

Thank you, I don't feel so alone in defending the use of Micromanagement for these very reasons.  In the end it saves times and clears up misunderstandings or confusion.  Micromanagement is a wonderful core building block tool with value.  I am suprised at the number of people opposed using it entirely.  As if micromanagement has no use or value or merits whatsoever.  It's a dirty swear word in many peoples book, but come on here... there has to be Dom/mes that use it as part of training or teaching process at times.

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RE: Micro Management, what does it mean to you? - 5/8/2007 6:17:48 AM   
Aswad


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sublimelysensual

In other words, I want to be as pleasing as possible, and knowing one's preferences and expectations is a large part of that. [...] I guess because I look at it as building blocks to being a better sub/slave for the person you're serving by not having any questions about whether what you're doing is appropriate/desired.


Don't get me wrong. To inform the sub/slave of expectations and/or requirements, or give a schedule when things have to be done by a specific time, isn't something I'd consider odd at all. As you say, many of us are looking for a sub/slave to be as pleasing as possible, and knowing what pleases is the first step toward this goal. I don't consider this micromanagement, although I guess everyone has their own meaning for that word.

Similarly, practicing micromanagement as a kink, as you said, is something I can see how someone might be aroused by, although it isn't a kink I share.

I'm more concerned with those cases where it seems pathological, and I've seen some of those as well. If it's just a minor pathology, and something that works for the people involved, I'm still fine with it. But a fixation with details and having everything "just so" can sometimes be a sign of a major pathology, and sometimes the most visible sign at first.


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From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do.
" -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


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RE: Micro Management, what does it mean to you? - 5/8/2007 6:25:00 AM   
jaunty1


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In some aspects, I do micro-manage. There are certain things that I want done in a very specific way; melissa has detailed orders on how to accomplish this.
 
In other areas, I just tell her what I want, how I want it, and expect that she will do her best to accomplish this.
 
Live well
 
Alex

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RE: Micro Management, what does it mean to you? - 5/8/2007 6:31:50 AM   
velvetears


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cjenny

Micro management. What is it to you and how do you feel about it? Do you look at those that need micro management in a negative way?


To me it means controling each and every action i do irregardless of whether or not it benefits my dom directly or not.  It is not the same as a dom being responsible for all my actions, one can be responsible for them without having to control them every step of the way.  For example - being told to go make dinner and opposed to cook me a steak, use the large frying pan, don't use garlic, make sure you also make me a salad, serve it to me with wine and salad (then explains how to make sald and what glass to pour the wine into)... etc. 

i was in a D/s relationship where i was micromanaged to a degree - not for everything but the things he wanted to micromanage and for me it left no room to be expressive in my own right. i felt stifled and like i wasn't able to really show my submission, how can you when every detail is laid out - it leaves no room for personal expression. 

i don't look at the need for it on others in a negative way - why should i it's what they want or need and does not affect me in any way.  i spent time with a slave who was micro managed by her Master and i can say it got  a bit tedious in that we had to constantly wait for her to get permission for everything we did, even when she had to make a rest room stop. 

my worry with slaves wh are micromanaged is that when the master dies or releases them - what are they going to do, how will they survive if they become so accustomed to be managed this way. 

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RE: Micro Management, what does it mean to you? - 5/8/2007 6:40:34 AM   
RavenMuse


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Mostly I work in generalitys. For example I may want her to eat more healthily, we will discuss the whys and methods, the eating patterns and types/range of foodstuffs I conside to be lacking in her diet.... she WILL take those on board and I should see improvement.

If I don't then I AM quite capable of micromanaging that aspect of her life. Telling her exactly what, when and how much to eat. That might go on indefinatly or simply till I am sure she has learned to do things to an acceptable standard without Me having to micromanage it.

Do I look down on someone who NEEDS micromanagement. No, that is simply who they are. That doesn't mean that I will let them stay that way if they belong to Me. I shouldn't have to micromanage to that extent on a perminant basis and they WILL be taught to keep things within what I consider acceptable without Me having to do so.

Just because someone needs some degree of micromanaging doesn't mean they can't do whatever it is that is being controlled, it is LIKELY just that they have submissive needs for that level of structure in order to feel secure. If you can find ways to reinforce the structure and feeling of being under control in other ways then the need for specificaly being micromanaged tends to lessen.

< Message edited by RavenMuse -- 5/8/2007 6:41:18 AM >


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RE: Micro Management, what does it mean to you? - 5/8/2007 6:47:50 AM   
Aswad


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quote:

ORIGINAL: WhiplashSmile

Thank you, I don't feel so alone in defending the use of Micromanagement for these very reasons.  I am suprised at the number of people opposed using it entirely.  As if micromanagement has no use or value or merits whatsoever.  It's a dirty swear word in many peoples book, but come on here...


I think you'll find the word means different things to different people, and that some of those who are opposed to it (in the sense of the word you and sublimelysensual use) are looking for a different kind of D/s dynamic.

For me, what you are describing is not something I'd necessarily call micromanagement. Perhaps that's just me putting too much emphasis on "micro".

quote:

there has to be Dom/mes that use it as part of training or teaching process at times. [paste] In the end it saves times and clears up misunderstandings or confusion.  Micromanagement is a wonderful core building block tool with value.


Certainly, in that sense of the word, for those goals. Although in my case, me and neph started out vanilla, so we have had years of getting to know each other in detail already.

If I were to take on another slave in the household, I would imprint my preferences in order of priority, whether by explaining them or by the use of conditioning, until said slave had internalized or habituated my preferences.

This might extend to a preference for a certain informal dress code, or a dislike of certain colours or articles of clothing, for instance, which I would not consider to be micromanagement, although whether I'd insist on it would depend on the particulars of the arrangement. What I would not want to do, however, is pick their clothing for them every time they're getting dressed, even if I would tell them to dress a specific way for a specific occasion if there was a reason to do so.

Similarly, if I tell one to do the dishes (the meal itself is out of the question; I love cooking and the kitchen is mine, all mine, bwahahaha), I would just expect the dishes to get done, I wouldn't tell one to do them in a specific order, or check up on one while working, although I'd certainly teach one to do it properly if the skills were lacking or the standard inadequate.

Also, while I get the idea of some people considering some things, like asking to go to the bathroom, a matter of protocol, it's not a protocol that would work for me, and not something I'd want to manage. If they need to go, they go, unless I tell them otherwise. I don't need to be bothered with it, and would quickly go insane if constantly pestered with trivial questions.

I guess you could say micromanagement, in the sense I mostly use the word, is one extreme of the role of a sub/slave in the dynamic along a certain spectrum/axis. On one extreme end of the spectrum is the fundamentalist Islamic "ideal" role, translated thus: the duties of the slave are "magically" carried out without being perceived or acknowledged, and the slave should only be noticed insofar as it is being actively used for something that involves interaction. I use the word micromanagement to denote the diametric opposite of this.

I think others may be using the word in the same sense, and I think it might then be more apparent why this is a "bad word" in some people's books.


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do.
" -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


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RE: Micro Management, what does it mean to you? - 5/8/2007 7:46:06 PM   
ownedgirlie


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~ fast reply ~

I find it interesting how many view what works for others as something negative, and even view those people in such relationships negatively.  Personally, if the people in a particular relationship work well with that type of dynamic, who am I to give them a different rule book and say "Hey, even though what you guys are doing is absolutely perfect for you, I think you should do it differently." 

I was more closely managed in the beginning than I am now.  I have been trained to his liking and he trusts me to live as he expects me to.  I've heard all the criticisms of being micromanaged.  To that I say - whatever!  It was precisely what I needed at the time and thank god he was willing to train me to become the person I needed to become.  Every day I thank him for his effort.  Now I require very little detailed instruction, but I do live according to what some feel is a rather strict law.  He and I are thrilled with it.  What others think of it is of little consequence to me.

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RE: Micro Management, what does it mean to you? - 5/9/2007 5:06:04 AM   
agirl


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There are areas of my life that could be viewed as micromanaged. It's applied where it's needed. Overall I don't see a great deal of difference between being managed and being micromanaged...........all it means is that a greater degree of control or focus works better in some areas. Some areas need little to no managing at all, they are already running at optimum.

It depends on how you view it and how beneficial it is. It's always been clear to me why it's necessary in places, and I have no arguement about it, even if I find it frustrating sometimes.

agirl





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RE: Micro Management, what does it mean to you? - 5/9/2007 8:01:02 AM   
domiguy


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I didn't even want to read this whole thread, I don't have the time or the initiative to oversee everything that a sub is doing on an hour to hour basis....Fuck, if someone is incapable of understanding what needs to be done after we have established the parameters of our relationship then i really don't want to be around that person.

I was talking with some sub who initially seemd to be slightly interesting in that she had a cunt and lived in Chicago...She then said, "if you would like to meet you have to speak with "XYZ" because I trust their judgement when approaching people off of this site as well as other items that come up in my life."  It was the end of our conversation...If someone is so incompetent that they have no ability to reason I certainly would like to stay clear of such people.

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RE: Micro Management, what does it mean to you? - 5/9/2007 9:04:46 AM   
cjenny


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RavenMuse

Mostly I work in generalitys. For example I may want her to eat more healthily, we will discuss the whys and methods, the eating patterns and types/range of foodstuffs I conside to be lacking in her diet.... she WILL take those on board and I should see improvement.

If I don't then I AM quite capable of micromanaging that aspect of her life. Telling her exactly what, when and how much to eat. That might go on indefinatly or simply till I am sure she has learned to do things to an acceptable standard without Me having to micromanage it.

The above example is something my dom does do with me. Once my new pattern is established then the focus drops from that and moves to another area. His intent is for me to grow, learn & become strong in all aspects of my life.

Do I look down on someone who NEEDS micromanagement. No, that is simply who they are. That doesn't mean that I will let them stay that way if they belong to Me. I shouldn't have to micromanage to that extent on a perminant basis and they WILL be taught to keep things within what I consider acceptable without Me having to do so.

Just because someone needs some degree of micromanaging doesn't mean they can't do whatever it is that is being controlled, it is LIKELY just that they have submissive needs for that level of structure in order to feel secure. If you can find ways to reinforce the structure and feeling of being under control in other ways then the need for specificaly being micromanaged tends to lessen.

Structure is very important to me & I perform best when it is firmly in place. Yes for us it does lessen as I manage more on my own.
A lot of my need stems from the fact that I am living on my own for the first time. Once divorced there were many things I simply did not know how to do, so he teaches me. He sets the pattern & structure for me to work in until I no longer need that particular bit.
It is an ever changing thing but without his help 'I' wouldn't be changing & for me growth/learning/change is a major part. When I learn something it is building onto myself and I don't want to ever stop that process
 
RavenMuse I would like to thank you for your post, you've helped me flesh out my own concept & feelings about micro management.



Thank you as well to everyone for the variety of responses and viewpoints.

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RE: Micro Management, what does it mean to you? - 5/9/2007 10:09:23 AM   
RavenMuse


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cjenny
He sets the pattern & structure for me to work in until I no longer need that particular bit.
It is an ever changing thing but without his help 'I' wouldn't be changing & for me growth/learning/change is a major part. When I learn something it is building onto myself and I don't want to ever stop that process
 
RavenMuse I would like to thank you for your post, you've helped me flesh out my own concept & feelings about micro management.


Yep, to put it in its simplest terms, micromanagement is but a tool, either to assist growth OR to bolster the structure and control she needs till I can settle those issues in a more efficient manner.

It can also be something I use for My own enjoyment from time to time, taking some aspect of her life compleatly under microcontrol for a while (A good way to reinforce the dynamic as well as being enjoyable)

You are most welcome sweetie. Mearly settling out My own PoV but if you found it useful then that is a pleasent bonus :)


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RE: Micro Management, what does it mean to you? - 5/9/2007 12:39:58 PM   
dollparts85


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Is it bad that I need Micro Management? *embarrassed*

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RE: Micro Management, what does it mean to you? - 5/9/2007 12:42:15 PM   
RavenMuse


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quote:

ORIGINAL: dollparts85
Is it bad that I need Micro Management? *embarrassed*


Bad maybe that you are embarrassed about needing it. As above, not everyone views it as a negative thing.


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And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man.

Owner of metalmiss

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RE: Micro Management, what does it mean to you? - 5/9/2007 1:05:39 PM   
windchymes


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Every time I've heard the term "MICRO-management", it's always been for the negative concept of someone who feels the need to completely oversee and nitpick work that others are perfectly capable of doing unsupervised.  Any management enhancement seminars or courses that I've been exposed to have encouraged management techniques totally the opposite of micromanaging....delegate responsibility, concentrate on results rather than the methods to get the results, and get involved only when it seems necessary to get involved.  I think of a "Micromanager" as one as I described in my earlier post, that NEEDS to constantly stand over people and interrupt their phone conversations, their emails, their correspondence, what kind of paper to write on, how to answer the phone, and on and on, to the point of not getting their own work done because they were so busy worrying about what everyone else was doing.  (Yes, Frank, if you're out there somewhere reading this, I'm talking about YOU!!!!)

In other words, I've only head the term used negatively in a business/working type environment.  Perhaps here in BDSMland, the term isn't so negative, if there are subs/slaves who want/need micromanaging and Doms/Masters who want to micromanage.  If these people can find one another, then it could be a match made in heaven  

Perhaps a different set of terms is needed in here....perhaps "heavy management" as opposed to "micromanagement" is a better way to think of it.  Or, do you want "micromanagement" or do you just want constant attention? 

< Message edited by windchymes -- 5/9/2007 1:07:41 PM >


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RE: Micro Management, what does it mean to you? - 5/9/2007 1:18:18 PM   
BeingChewsie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: windchymes
Perhaps a different set of terms is needed in here....perhaps "heavy management" as opposed to "micromanagement" is a better way to think of it.  Or, do you want "micromanagement" or do you just want constant attention? 


I must be using the wrong term because my owner doesn't stand over me but I make no independent decisions, everything is extremely regulated but it is all ingrained, I live by a system, my life is extremely routine, same thing over and over 99% of the time... and if there is a question I ask, I'm expected to be as invisble as possble in his service, the last thing he wants is someone who needs tons of attention. When we are out together he makes all the decisions directly for me, but he is right there, no need to delegate or fall back on the system he has in place that tells me what to do in 99% of my day or more to the point how *he* wants my day.

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RE: Micro Management, what does it mean to you? - 5/9/2007 1:28:16 PM   
KatyLied


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I think that certain personalities probably thrive under conditions of micromanagement.  It gives them order and structure.  I don't necessarily see it as a bad thing.  I wouldn't want someone looking over my shoulder, but I like to have a comforting set of expectations set before me.  I guess it depends on where you draw the line and what you consider "micromanaging."  In the past I've exercised and blogged every day, that was sort of micromanagement, but these were things I needed in order to find a calmer place, my Dom at the time, understood this.

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RE: Micro Management, what does it mean to you? - 5/9/2007 1:37:00 PM   
windchymes


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BeingChewsie

quote:

ORIGINAL: windchymes
Perhaps a different set of terms is needed in here....perhaps "heavy management" as opposed to "micromanagement" is a better way to think of it.  Or, do you want "micromanagement" or do you just want constant attention? 


I must be using the wrong term because my owner doesn't stand over me but I make no independent decisions, everything is extremely regulated but it is all ingrained, I live by a system, my life is extremely routine, same thing over and over 99% of the time... and if there is a question I ask, I'm expected to be as invisble as possble in his service, the last thing he wants is someone who needs tons of attention. When we are out together he makes all the decisions directly for me, but he is right there, no need to delegate or fall back on the system he has in place that tells me what to do in 99% of my day or more to the point how *he* wants my day.


Right, I consider you just "managed"   You have a set of expectations given to you, and you carry them out, and all is well  If I ever entered into a 24/7 TPE-type relationship, this is probably what I could live with.  But that's just me.  Whatever works for anyone else is always up to them. 

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