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RE: Advice for New Dommes - 8/27/2008 8:30:49 AM

AAkasha

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quote:

ORIGINAL: pixelslave

Excellen post Elan and kudos to you for taking the time!

I'd add that for beginners, I think the use of rituals or protocols, such as having a submissive kneel, use a particular form of address, ask permission for things (to leave the room or go to the bathroom as 2 examples that come to mind), and having the submissive do particular things at a certain time of day for his Mistress (greet her at the door or call on his way home for example) are probably the easiest ways for a new Domme, or any couple for that matter, to establish their D/s dynamic. IMO, they really do help both the dominant and submissive each get in their D/s mind spaces and remain there throughout their day according to their agreed upon dynamic. When the rituals disappear, it's seems as though it's also much easier for the dynamic to begin to weaken as well.

Just a few thoughts to add to yours that might be of help to others as well.

- pixel

I disagree. It depends on the femdom. For some, keeping track of protocol and rules is a level of micromanaging that borders an annoying. It's one thing if you just do it - but there's a submissive on the other end that is no doubt thinking more about it, and at every turn, noticing that you forgot a rule, or didn't remind him of a protocol. Rules and protocol are only effective if enforced and appreciated. If not, the submissive feels like he's doing it for nothing. He may as well make his own list of rules. For rules and protocol to be effective and impact the headspae of the sub, there must be some level of acknowledgment or enforcement.

A dominant woman should do what she is comfortable with but what gives her enough pleasure and enjoyment that she wants to do it. The idea that rules and protocol are 'easy' is false. Especially with a submissive who is anal and keeping track. Believe me, they remind you and ask for clarification at every step if you are not on top of the rules. It's a burden, not a pleasure, in those situations.

Akasha

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Post #: 21

RE: Advice for New Dommes - 8/27/2008 8:34:32 AM

LadyHibiscus

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I am with Akasha, I despise high protocol stuff. The more rules there are, the more rules I have to ENFORCE. While Pixel makes an excellent point about rituals reminding both parties of their positions, but if they are not meaningful to BOTH parties, and easy to remember and follow through with, they are another stick for both to be beaten with. Do what feels natural, useful, and enhances the relationship.

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Post #: 22

RE: Advice for New Dommes - 8/27/2008 9:04:35 AM

pixelslave

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

I am with Akasha, I despise high protocol stuff. The more rules there are, the more rules I have to ENFORCE. While Pixel makes an excellent point about rituals reminding both parties of their positions, but if they are not meaningful to BOTH parties, and easy to remember and follow through with, they are another stick for both to be beaten with. Do what feels natural, useful, and enhances the relationship.

Lady Hibiscus and Akasha,
I wasn't necessarily referring to high protocols, although I did give examples that would be considered as such. If they don't work for the Dominant, then they're clearly not appropriate to use for the dynamic. If they're not something the sub finds easy to do or can easily fall into step with, then they probably don't have their place in that particular relationship. In others, they often can help was the point I was attempting to make.

If your sub naturally found it easy to kneel before you would you want him to do that? Would it give you a feeling that he was especially submissive to you? Would it enhance your sense of being a dominant woman?

To my mind, rituals aren't and shouldn't be things that need to be enforced by the Dominant. Just as you wouldn't want his submission unless it were given freely to you, rituals are things which I believe need to be important to both the Domme and the sub as a part of their agreed upon dynamic. If a sub wants to please his Dominant and understands that a certain behavior (protocol or ritual if you will) is important to her, wouldn't you think he'd find it easy to eventually learn to do it for her? That's been my particular experience. That said, I'm also one that likes to learn what it is that pleases the particular woman I'm with.

As for enforcement, if you saw he was trying in earnest to learn what you required of him, would you even feel the need to express your displeasure or enforce in the case of a mistake/lapse on his part instead of finding it natural to want to praise him for his efforts? I'd hope it wouldn't be the work you describe it as being if you wanted that kind of D/s dynamic with a sub that was eager to please.

- pixel

< Message edited by pixelslave -- 8/27/2008 9:08:13 AM >

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Post #: 23

RE: Advice for New Dommes - 8/27/2008 9:19:50 AM

LadyHibiscus

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Pixel, I think Akasha and I have both had experiences of the "Bad Dom No Biscuit" reaction when we did not fit the fantasy of the particular sub we were working with. I am sure that you have met submissives who try to elicit some kind of negative attention by their actions, or lack thereof. "Obviously" we are not Twue Doms because we do not pounce on every flaw. Hogwash.

The protocols of kneeling, terms of address, etc, are largely meaningless to me, and not things that reinforce my image of myself as a dominant, or indeed his or her submission to me. My slave enjoyed kneeling before me, and for awhile, I found it tolerable, but by and large, I found it annoying. It was a big deal to HIM though, and in his mind, it was What A Slave Did. And what kind of a slave owner was I, not wanting to accept his obeisance? Tricky ground, isn't it!

I want my submissive to please me in the ways that *I* want to be pleased. In my case, that is not by following a protocol that does not please me. (I am certainly likely to allow or order whatever activity he feels enhance his slavishness, if I am in the mood, or feeling indulgent).

Short story: if it doesn't enhance the dominant's life, it IS a chore. Sometimes we do things that we don't like all that much in the name of keeping our partners happy, but we have to draw the line at what our needs are as dominants. Those needs are obviously pretty varied!

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Post #: 24

RE: Advice for New Dommes - 8/27/2008 12:43:06 PM

pixelslave

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

Pixel, I think Akasha and I have both had experiences of the "Bad Dom No Biscuit" reaction when we did not fit the fantasy of the particular sub we were working with. I am sure that you have met submissives who try to elicit some kind of negative attention by their actions, or lack thereof. "Obviously" we are not Twue Doms because we do not pounce on every flaw. Hogwash.

You and Akasha, not "Twue Dommes"?? Yikes! My illusions have been shattered Lady Hibuscus!

quote:

My slave enjoyed kneeling before me, and for awhile, I found it tolerable, but by and large, I found it annoying. It was a big deal to HIM though, and in his mind, it was What A Slave Did. And what kind of a slave owner was I, not wanting to accept his obeisance? Tricky ground, isn't it!

Indeed! Clearly a case of different needs/wants, ultimately aimed to crash into each other head-on!

quote:

I want my submissive to please me in the ways that *I* want to be pleased. In my case, that is not by following a protocol that does not please me. (I am certainly likely to allow or order whatever activity he feels enhance his slavishness, if I am in the mood, or feeling indulgent).

Short story: if it doesn't enhance the dominant's life, it IS a chore. Sometimes we do things that we don't like all that much in the name of keeping our partners happy, but we have to draw the line at what our needs are as dominants. Those needs are obviously pretty varied!

I think you know, I'd never be one to try and tell you what your dynamic "should" look like! You know best what does and doesn't work for you.

- pixel

_____________________________

Chivalry isn't dead! It's for those who have it in their hearts & are willing to be taught. It's a way of life, a code of honor; this one's armor still needs some polishing!

(in reply to LadyHibiscus)

Post #: 25

RE: Advice for New Dommes - 8/27/2008 1:41:51 PM

Madame4a

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

quote:

ORIGINAL: MamaDomme1

Wow Elan, that was fabulous. I think I just fell in lov... errr.... lust with you!

Hey! The line forms behind ME!

But I share.

*getting in line*

but I can share too

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Post #: 26

RE: Advice for New Dommes - 8/27/2008 2:18:25 PM

MistressOfGa

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Elan,
I have been saying it all along. You are going to make a Domina very very happy one day. Excellent post. You don't give yourself enough credit, everyone will read it, and if they just skim through it, they are missing out on some of the best writing I have ever seen on this forum. Good job and spot on! Not only did you take the time to write it, but you took the time to get your information correct.

I have nothing to add to it, other than to encourage those who haven't read it, to read it.

<Hugs to you dear friend>

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Post #: 27

RE: Advice for New Dommes - 8/27/2008 2:26:54 PM

MistressOfGa

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LaMistressa

Great post. This would make a good FAQ or Sticky page (get your minds out of the gutter); is there any way to tag it that way?

Maybe Elan can put it up on his journal, and when asked about this, we can point new Domina's to his screen name <s> Certainly will give him credit where credit is due, plus give him new PoPo opportunities <s>

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Post #: 28

RE: Advice for New Dommes - 8/27/2008 2:37:47 PM

CallaFirestormBW

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~fast reply~

Elan,

What an awesome contribution. I hope that it can be 'stickied' so it is available to visitors to the forum.

One thing that struck me is that I find myself in the tenuous "new dominant" headspace many times when I am working up a new potential servant or topping someone I've never played before (since I do play somewhat casually -- at least, as casually as one can doing blood-play).

Because no two dynamics are the same, much of the advice concerning dealing with discomfort is applicable even to experienced Keepers. This is an essay that could be kept for years and would still provide some relevance even years down the road.

Thank you again,
Calla Firestorm

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Post #: 29

RE: Advice for New Dommes - 8/27/2008 8:05:09 PM

wickedgame916

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From: Elk Grove, CA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Pyrrsefanie

Elan, I think you misunderstand some of what was suggested for the new dommes...

I can't speak for others, but I personally was referring to the all-too-typical scenario of a woman being pressured into dominating her husband, regardless of whether or not she's actually interested. If it's not something that she wants to do in the first place, then it's really not being dominant, more like acting out a fantasy, putting on a costume, something like that.

But there are many men out there who ask to be dominated when all that they have in their head is a picture of the Mistress Mandy stereotype. It's a matter of miscommunication at that point; husband says "dominate me," wife goes onto the internet and gets advice on real, deep, meaningful methods of domination, and comes back only to find out that the husband was just talking about her slapping his ass a few times and calling him a dirty pig boy.

Step one really is to make sure you're willing to do it, because if both parties aren't enthusiastically consenting to it in the first place... well... it makes having any sort of satisfying D/s activity difficult. Of course if this really is not her cup of tea, then she has every right to and in fact should stand up and say "No, this isn't something I'm interested in" without worrying about being pressured into it, or worse, given an ultimatum.

This is not a worry in our case.

My husband has been deeply involved with BDSM since before I met him. He's done things that I hadn't even heard of before I met him.

Contrary to how I may have sounded, I am not completely new to this, just new to the idea of dominating him completely. I have dominated him. I own a crop, a paddle, nipple clamps, dildos, and a very large and beautiful strap-on that I use on him regularly. While this is no where near the list of toys I want to have, I make due with it.

Everyone seems to think that this is a case of a vanilla girl being pressured into this. It's not. I've had it in the back of my brain for years, but as I've reached 30 I'm just now becoming more comfortable in my own skin and realizing my power as a woman.

I've never been a vanilla girl, and I was never pressured into anything. I told my husband at first to go out and find his own domme because I wasn't sure I could do it, but my self-confidence has grown exponentially.

My husband is a pain and pleasure slut, and enjoys whatever I can and will dish out.

When I came here asking for advice, I didn't expect anyone to treat me like I didn't know what a strap-on was or on how to dominate him physically. I'm aware of all of that. I guess I should've made myself clearer: what I need help on is the mental aspects of where to start the dominating and how to properly get into the mindset of it all.

I'm not too sure anyone looking for advice should come to these forums. Some of you were pretty damned rude.

(in reply to Pyrrsefanie)

Post #: 30

RE: Advice for New Dommes - 8/27/2008 8:10:39 PM

wickedgame916

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From: Elk Grove, CA
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Thank you, Elan, for being so kind and posting all of this for me and for others. It was a great lesson, even if I did know the majority of what you were speaking of.

It's the mental advice that I treasure the most. That's where I seem to falter, is the mindset. I have the toys and will to do what must be done, I just need some help getting into that headspace, or whatever you will call it.

Thanks to everyone who added information and advice. I really appreciate it.

-Wicked

(in reply to ElanSubdued)

Post #: 31

RE: Advice for New Dommes - 8/27/2008 8:19:59 PM

Pyrrsefanie

Posts: 1222
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quote:

ORIGINAL: wickedgame916
Everyone seems to think that this is a case of a vanilla girl being pressured into this. It's not. I've had it in the back of my brain for years, but as I've reached 30 I'm just now becoming more comfortable in my own skin and realizing my power as a woman.

I'm glad to hear that's not the case and sincerely hope you're not classifying me as one of the "rude" ones, although my extreme bluntness is usually mistaken for that, bleh.

Do understand, though, that a vast majority of the women who come here asking advice on becoming dominant are not as fortunate as you to have any experience with BDSM activity or even to be excited about a new prospect such as this. I think most of us have become a bit jaded because of that when the question is posed without any background as to prior experience, et cetera. We just like to cover all of the bases.

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Post #: 32

RE: Advice for New Dommes - 8/27/2008 8:45:41 PM

AAkasha

Posts: 4429
Joined: 11/27/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: wickedgame916

Thank you, Elan, for being so kind and posting all of this for me and for others. It was a great lesson, even if I did know the majority of what you were speaking of.

It's the mental advice that I treasure the most. That's where I seem to falter, is the mindset. I have the toys and will to do what must be done, I just need some help getting into that headspace, or whatever you will call it.

Thanks to everyone who added information and advice. I really appreciate it.

-Wicked

Try observing and capturing those moments in your life where you feel that rush of sexy, playful seductiveness. Is it a song you hear? It is something you are wearing? Is it the way he looks at you, or something subtle in his body language?

Adding little rituals to your preparation might help. Quiet time, putting on make up or clothes, listening to music, doing your hair, all while imagining the pleasure you will have when he's helpless and you are in control. It could be taking a long bath and fantasizing, visualizing. I find that *planning* can make me feel mischeivious and sexy and really get me going also.

There are other triggers for me. The smells and feel of leather restraints, or rubber toys. So when I go through and prepare my gear and lay things out, I find myself getting in the mood even more. Holding a riding crop, putting on gloves, etc. All those things help.

But the bottom line is this -- sometimes, it's a mood I can't just turn off or on. It just is. And that is something that I have had a hard time explaining to overeager subs who have an appetite that is immediate and desperate. I get ravenous - absolutely ravenous - at certain times. I feel it all over my body. I can sit at a traffic light and watch a male pedestrian cross the street and total eroticize the idea of seducing him. Flash forward two weeks, same traffic light, even hotter guy crossing the street, I could care less - my mind is somewhere else.

The only thing I know for certain is that "hunger" will always come back. I can do little things to try to flip the trigger, like the stuff I listed above, but the overall LUST is just something that ebbs and flows on its own.

Once I get started in the process of domination, my juices generally will get flowing - much like having sex when you aren't in the mood - it starts to all click when you get going. But I have to take my time and really let my emotions and mood run the show, rather than try to manufacture it.

Hope this helps!

Akasha

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Post #: 33

RE: Advice for New Dommes - 8/28/2008 12:22:36 AM

tulitukka

Posts: 95
Joined: 10/11/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

I disagree. It depends on the femdom.

I would say it depends on the dom irrespective of sex or gender. I dislike protocols for almost the exact reasons you say. Just adding that it doesn't take an anal submissive to make it a burden. At least for me, I feel worse myself, when I notice I'm not keeping track of the protocols, and a submissive may also feel neglected if the dom doesn't - and you'll notice that after a fashion whether (s)he complains or not.

(in reply to AAkasha)

Post #: 34

RE: Advice for New Dommes - 8/28/2008 1:07:13 AM

MasterFireMaam

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Elan,

Your post was 17 pages in Word and 8,800+ words. If you could flesh it out more and double (better yet, triple) the word count, it'd be an excellent beginner's book.

Master Fire

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Post #: 35

RE: Advice for New Dommes - 8/28/2008 2:11:50 AM

Satyr6406

Posts: 820
Joined: 3/27/2006
From: New Brunswick, N.J.
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Hmmmm ... I have been pondering whether or not this is the appropriate place to re-post this. I'm not quite sure if we're talking about BDSM or D/s, here (Yes, I make a distinction). In the hopes that we are talking about D/s (or M/s, if you prefer), I will re-post this piece which was a reply I posted in these fora over a year ago.

Okay, this is important. This is as close to a "Mission Statement" as anyone is going to get from me.

This was a post, in the forums, in answer to someone complaining about "dominants" that get offended, when they don't get replies to their e-mails. The thread took a few "left turns" and the poster right before me (Whose name I've edited out, here because this is NOT to ridicule or pass judgment) included this sentence as part of their agreement with the main topic:

quote:

ORIGINAL: XxxxxxxxXxxxx

Dom is just a title that some people hang on themselves.

This is something which I have talked/posted about extensively. This is, exactly what's at issue!

"Dom" should NOT be " ... just a title that some people hang on themselves.". It should be a person that holds themselves to a certain set of standards and behaviors.

True enough, since everyone's idea of what makes a good dominant would be different, the standards would be different but, I like to think that there are some basics, upon which most of us could agree ...

Loyalty-- faithful; as to a person, cause, ideal or duty. Some may think this is subjective, personally, I don't. While my beliefs, friendships, or long-term goals may change, on some things, my duty (to be the best person I can be and to do no intentional harm to others) never changes.

Duty--Moral obligation. Once again; this is something that each of us must decide for ourselves but, if we adhere to it, I have found, that we become people with a purpose.

Respect--To avoid violation of. I don't have to hold any person (or their opinions) up to be of any particular value. I am required (by my own set of values) to not violate that person or their beliefs. I can disagree (as I frequently do) but, I am not allowed to ridicule or intentionally offend.

Service--being of use or value to others. How many "dominants" (notice the quotation marks) are cringing, right now? How many are looking down their noses at me? Before we can become leaders, we need to know how to serve. The common belief that this lifestyle is all about me. That's correct, as long as I am not all about me. If I am a compassionate human being who is bent on making the world (or my little corner of it) a better place, then, a submissive who makes it "all about me" is not only serving my foolish caprices (There'll still be some of those) but, serving the community/her fellow human being. That's a good thing!

Honor--High respect; esteem. This is one that is lost on a good many people, in general. Why am I honest? Because I honor the truth. Why do I set a certain set of standards for my behavior? Because I honor this lifestyle (or my parents or whomever raised me). Somewhere along the line, people, in general have let certain things like honor slip by the wayside.

Integrity--Doing what's right, even when it causes you pain and even when no one's looking. How many people that we know can't even manage to cop to a simple truth? Where's the integrity?

Personal Courage--facing/challenging your fears and turning their defeat into your strength. We can't, as people, remain stagnant. Even if we're "happy with who we are", we have to keep evolving, on a personal level or we get dragged down into the mud.

I am not claiming that I invented these principles. Far from it. I am claiming that in order for me to recognize someone as a dominant, they have to incorporate these things into their lives/behavior.

If you take each first letter, you'll notice that a (Poetic license taken) "word" gets spelled out: "L.D.R.S.H.I.P. (Leadership)". Are we, as dominants, not supposed to be the "leaders" of our submissives? By giving their submission, haven't our submissives said: "I want you to guide and nurture who I am and help make me into who I can be"?

I know this is going to raise some eyebrows and, Xxxxxxxx, this post was NOT meant to ridicule what you said but, that one sentence, in my opinion, is at the crux of the issue.

As always, peace and comfort,

Michael

< Message edited by Satyr6406 -- 8/28/2008 2:14:27 AM >

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Post #: 36

RE: Advice for New Dommes - 8/28/2008 7:31:05 AM

pixelslave

Posts: 1444
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I'm very glad you reposted that in this thread Michael! I think it's something that new dominants also need to understand. Much of what you've posted I feel applies to me personally as well; not just as a submissive who's actions would reflect upon his dominant, but as a human being with similar core values. At the same time, I couldn't serve a dominant that didn't have values similar to what you've posted.

Thank you again for sharing.

- pixel

_____________________________

Chivalry isn't dead! It's for those who have it in their hearts & are willing to be taught. It's a way of life, a code of honor; this one's armor still needs some polishing!

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Post #: 37

RE: Advice for New Dommes - 8/28/2008 10:41:46 AM

ocilla

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MMmmm, I don't have time to read this at the moment but am coming back to go through it thoroughly. And even before reading I am going to say a big thanks to Elan for putting himself and his effort and energy into this. I am sure that it will be good as his stuff always is. I have copy and pasted more than one of his past writings and have them squirreled away in my files.

Once I read it I will come back and add if I've anything that might be helpful.

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It takes a kinky village...

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Post #: 38

RE: Advice for New Dommes - 8/28/2008 11:32:05 AM

Daes

Posts: 246
Joined: 4/20/2007
From: Diamond Bar, SoCal
Status: offline

^_^ Nice post, I had fun reading it.

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Post #: 39

RE: Advice for New Dommes - 8/28/2008 12:07:10 PM

LadyHibiscus

Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterFireMaam

Elan,

Your post was 17 pages in Word and 8,800+ words. If you could flesh it out more and double (better yet, triple) the word count, it'd be an excellent beginner's book.

Master Fire

EEEEEEEEEEEE!! Don't encourage him! At least, make sure he lets SOMEONE ELSE edit, okay?

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Post #: 40

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